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A New Piece - 1798 Large Cent - Naftzger Provenance

CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,601 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited January 26, 2023 8:40AM in U.S. Coin Forum

As some of you may know by viewing the BST, I consigned several coins to GC and did so to help pay for this coin. While those coins will be missed, I felt they could be replaced in the future should I wish to do so. I won the GC auction for this coin in November and have now received it. These pics are more accurate than the TV in my opinion so I've chosen not to post that version.


I pursued this coin because I've always been drawn to the draped bust design and early copper type in general. To own one in this condition has been of dream of mine and I am thrilled to now own an excellent example.

This coin has quite the provenance as well (Naftzger green handwriting):

Denis Loring, Ted Naftzger, Herman Halpern, and Tom Reynolds. Looking back to the 1988 auction, it was described as follows:

Many of you know the infamous Naftzger story, but this reference to his history found on NNP is especially interesting to me:

https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/periodical/9414

I will quote liberally from this in the next post.

Hope you enjoy seeing this piece of numismatic history!

"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"

Comments

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,601 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2023 8:32AM

    This coin resides in a private registry set so I'm awaiting the necessary 3 days to have it transferred to mine.

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,264 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow! What a treasure. Congrats on your win. Sorry to be drooling.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • RLSnapperRLSnapper Posts: 516 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Beautiful pick up!! Nice that you included the Heman Halpern Lot listing! I have that catalogue as part of my library! Dennis Loring edited a book on 1795 - 1803 Large Cents that resides in my library as well. Nice to see you appreciate all those who have admired this coin during its lifetime.

  • lermishlermish Posts: 1,922 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Absolutely beautiful coin. Very happy for you to have fulfilled your goal with such a nice example. Congratulations and enjoy it in good health!

  • robecrobec Posts: 6,603 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great coin and great story. A very interesting read. I wonder if Sheldon was ever taken to task for his deception? Sounds like he would have made a great eBay seller.

  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,454 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Congrats!!

    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,755 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great coin, congrats on your newp!

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • AndyKAndyK Posts: 58 ✭✭✭

    When I was very young, I had a 1798 draped bust cent that was the pride and joy of my collection. I have always wanted to get a high grade replacement like you have achieved here. I'm jealous ;) Congratulations, this is one amazing coin!

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,146 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Beautiful coin, and fabulous backstories.

    Successful BST transactions with 170 members. Recent: Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • NeophyteNumismatistNeophyteNumismatist Posts: 874 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Congrats on owning such a lovely piece! Thanks for sharing.

    I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.

  • AotearoaAotearoa Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow!

    Smitten with DBLCs.

  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sweet chocolaty cent and really surprised at the AU58 as I've seen MS62-65 DBLC's in pronged holders which looked more slider-ish than this.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,518 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice piece of numismatic history. Congratulations!

  • CrustyCrusty Posts: 1,073 ✭✭✭✭✭

    One hell of a coin! Congrats

  • telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,740 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Excellent piece with some great provenance and a compelling back story regarding its owner. Congrats.


    RIP Mom- 1932-2012
  • lilolmelilolme Posts: 2,455 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hmm... Makes me think, one of these day I just might have to get one and/or half of one (cent).

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=2YNufnS_kf4 - Mama I'm coming home ...................................................................................................................................................................... RLJ 1958 - 2023

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,670 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What a story! Thanks for that.

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  • FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,845 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great coin and history! I'm sure you're thrilled!

    Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.

  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,425 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Who is REN? Very nice looking coin.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,601 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gumby1234 said:
    Who is REN? Very nice looking coin.

    Ted Naftzer (Roy Edgar)

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,425 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Catbert said:

    @gumby1234 said:
    Who is REN? Very nice looking coin.

    Ted Naftzer (Roy Edgar)

    Oh ok. Seems Red would have fit better.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • P0CKETCHANGEP0CKETCHANGE Posts: 2,240 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wowza! That is a very special pickup. And what a story. Congrats!

    Nothing is as expensive as free money.

  • coinnutcoinnut Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Congratulations on picking up such a great coin. Nice story!

  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,416 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Normally, I avoid a pre 1815 copper that's not in an OGH, because I had an expensive one go bad in holder 8 years after I bought it.

    But you can track the provenance in this coin, as well as its holder history, so under the circumstances, I'd be good with it.

    I can't comment re the coin's eye appeal, because I haven't seen it. It's interesting Naftzger noted the coin was AU 50 in 1988. Wonder if this was a TPG or EAC grade?

    Unusually clean planchet. I agree with the grade; see a slightly incomplete top left leaf on the reverse, and minimal wear at the top of Miss Liberty's head on the obverse.

    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • kazkaz Posts: 9,065 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Terrific coin, Catbert, quite an acquisition. I have a Naftzger cent too, just much later, (and a lot less valuable!)

  • renomedphysrenomedphys Posts: 3,501 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Tied for 5th finest in Noyes, EAC 50

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,264 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Catbert Want to trade for another 1798 2nd hair DBLC, these coins need love too? lol Just kidding.
    Jim



    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,592 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What a fantastic example from a prominent and storied collection!! @Catbert

    Wonderful it found a home with you!! <3


    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Catbert ... What a marvelous coin... Congratulations on your acquisition. Thanks for the history as well. Cheers, RickO

  • hbarbeehbarbee Posts: 169 ✭✭✭

    Your example is outstanding. You should be proud. I believe in going with the best one can afford and with this coin, you can enjoy all of the details within the design. I also noticed that PCGS is using your coin as the example for the AU58 grade.

    The TrueView image in Max resolution at
    https://images.pcgs.com/TrueView/32782972_Max.jpg
    appears very close to your pic. Does it really differ much from the coin in hand?

    With your coin, when you start with that image and zoom up, you just cannot find any distracting marks. There is some wear, but no hits. You did good in bidding on this coin, even if you paid over the PCGS price guide.

    There is an interesting mark on the reverse between the leaves to the right of the letter E. It appears to be related to the die, but I cannot tell if it is raised or incuse.

    What EAC grade do you suppose the coin is? My guess would be EF40 or 45. I don’t think it would make AU50.

    My Draped Bust example is a 1797 S-135 from the Larry Miller collection. It is PCGS MS65BN. I found that a previous owner had resubmitted it in an OGH at MS64BN with CAC and got the upgrade. I would grade it EAC MS-60 or 63.

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,601 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @hbarbee - I often find TVs to not be the most accurate representation of coins, particularly with copper which tends to be too dark (perhaps due to persistent red emphasis).

    While I am an EAC member, I’m a type collector and don’t place much emphasis on EAC grading. I just find the coin to meet all my requirements for an eye appealing example.

    Thank you for your comments! 👍🏻

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • raysrays Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The most desirable large cents are an even, light brown in color,

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,601 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @rays said:
    The most desirable large cents are an even, light brown in color,

    True, but chocolate brown also has its charms.

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • raysrays Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's a half cent graded PCGS AU58, which has ideal color in my opinion:

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,601 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2023 8:50AM

    @rays And here's another PCGS AU58 CAC half cent (that I own) that I like even more than your example:

    So what is the point you are making? It's okay if you don't like the look of my large cent. Just say it.

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • raysrays Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't profess to be expert enough in EAC to know how S-184s come, color or strike. Your example may be one of the best there is. Certainly no less than REN and Tom Reynolds liked it.

    My point is not whether I liked your S184 as an example of S-184 or even as one of the 1798 second hair style. You implied you were seeking an example of the draped bust type of US Large cent. Given the literally hundreds of Nichols horde coins extant, I think you could have got one those with better color.

  • MapsOnFireMapsOnFire Posts: 189 ✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2023 12:32AM

    I met Ted Naftzger long before I knew he was a coin collector. I was studying National Bank notes and the banks that issued them. I would learn the names of the President and the Cashier of each bank, as listed in bank directories for each year. I have an enormous library of those directories - Rand McNally, Bankers Register, many others - 1851-1935. Then I would trace the descendants of the bank officers using probate records, newspapers, local historical societies. My goal was to find a grandson who had saved a note signed by his grandfather.
    The President of The First National Bank of Riverside, California was Azro Huffman Naftzger. His grandson was Ted, who was not difficult to find. And he did have a $5 bill, Series 1882, signed by Azro H. Naftzger. He wouldn't part with the note, but still it was a successful search.
    Among the notes I located and acquired was one on The First National Bank of Globe, Arizona Territory. That was a genuine trophy.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,061 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Congratulations on the gorgeous purchase! It’s hard to find 18th century copper with nice surfaces, color, and accurately graded. It is definitely a keeper!

  • EddiEddi Posts: 453 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wish just ONE of the Early Large cents in my collection looked as nice as your S-184.

    It must be a joy to own that coin. Congratulations!

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank-you for a great post, and congrats on a very nice coin!

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.

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