@LanceNewmanOCC said:
just for the sake of closure. about 2 months for them to get it sorted out, although from the beginning, since the item showed delivered, ebay stated that i was covered. i do feel for the buyer if the item for whatever reason, didn't show up.
Can't argue with that. I hate to have to spend over four dollars to send something that should be able to ship for around 50 cents but buyers insist on tracking so if that's how it's going to be, I'm not going to eat the loss when the tracking shows "delivered".
@LanceNewmanOCC said:
just for the sake of closure. about 2 months for them to get it sorted out, although from the beginning, since the item showed delivered, ebay stated that i was covered. i do feel for the buyer if the item for whatever reason, didn't show up.
Can't argue with that. I hate to have to spend over four dollars to send something that should be able to ship for around 50 cents but buyers insist on tracking so if that's how it's going to be, I'm not going to eat the loss when the tracking shows "delivered".
surely having this affordable tracking has reduced the amount of back n forth about whether items (coins/cards etc) actually showed up and the amount of customer service ebay had to provide to help smooth things over for everyone. lo and behold, this was accomplished by putting the process into the hands of the members and it worked out fantastically. we as members of this planet and country need SOOOOOOO many more simple and effective solutions like this to everyone's betterment.
although, to be fair to us, surprisingly, like others here have stated, my success rate with shipping w/o tracking worked pretty well but i do sleep a bit better and list/sell more because it is in place.
if i had to venture a guess, i'd say because the stuff isn't that expensive for any one item to begin with, for myself anyway, i never really cared as much about the losses as i did figuring there were some nimrods out there abusing the honor system and ebay seemingly not having protocols in place for accounts with excessive refunds, claims, bid retractions etc and/or options for sellers to further filter out higher risk accounts. ALTHOUGH, i do believe some people do live in riskier situations leading to more claims but as hard as it sounds, that is not really a seller's problem, especially since the problem is we just can't know for sure whom is being honest or not.
if i could know 100% the buyer never did actually receive the item AND was not doing something lazy or stupid leading to potential claims, i would be HAPPY to split the difference with them. i've offered it before to buyers and i've had buyers offer such things to me and NGL, it puts a BIG smile on my face to be reasonable, decent, generous with people whom are of like mind.
@LanceNewmanOCC said:
if i had to venture a guess, i'd say because the stuff isn't that expensive for any one item to begin with, for myself anyway, i never really cared as much about the losses as i did figuring there were some nimrods out there abusing the honor system and ebay seemingly not having protocols in place for accounts with excessive refunds, claims, bid retractions etc and/or options for sellers to further filter out higher risk accounts.
Once upon a time, I refunded a buyer who claimed "non-receipt" because I shipped without tracking. Reviewing the feedback this buyer left, he claimed non-receipt on half the transactions on the first page of the feedback he left. Really?
@LanceNewmanOCC said:
ALTHOUGH, i do believe some people do live in riskier situations leading to more claims but as hard as it sounds, that is not really a seller's problem, especially since the problem is we just can't know for sure whom is being honest or not.
I'm sure some do, but I can't do anything about that and I'm wondering why that should be my responsibility. Get a PO box, maybe?
@LanceNewmanOCC said:
if i could know 100% the buyer never did actually receive the item AND was not doing something lazy or stupid leading to potential claims, i would be HAPPY to split the difference with them.
Hell, I'd cover the loss entirely. But we're in the eBay universe of "Heads, buyers win and tails, sellers lose" so I'm not as trusting as I used to be.
@LanceNewmanOCC said:
if i had to venture a guess, i'd say because the stuff isn't that expensive for any one item to begin with, for myself anyway, i never really cared as much about the losses as i did figuring there were some nimrods out there abusing the honor system and ebay seemingly not having protocols in place for accounts with excessive refunds, claims, bid retractions etc and/or options for sellers to further filter out higher risk accounts.
Once upon a time, I refunded a buyer who claimed "non-receipt" because I shipped without tracking. Reviewing the feedback this buyer left, he claimed non-receipt on half the transactions on the first page of the feedback he left. Really?
@LanceNewmanOCC said:
ALTHOUGH, i do believe some people do live in riskier situations leading to more claims but as hard as it sounds, that is not really a seller's problem, especially since the problem is we just can't know for sure whom is being honest or not.
I'm sure some do, but I can't do anything about that and I'm wondering why that should be my responsibility. Get a PO box, maybe?
@LanceNewmanOCC said:
if i could know 100% the buyer never did actually receive the item AND was not doing something lazy or stupid leading to potential claims, i would be HAPPY to split the difference with them.
Hell, I'd cover the loss entirely. But we're in the eBay universe of "Heads, buyers win and tails, sellers lose" so I'm not as trusting as I used to be.
I just got an angry email from a buyer objecting to my using registered mail for his $1600 gold coin. I apologized for trying to make sure he safely received his coin. Lol. He'll probably leave me negative feedback.
@jmlanzaf said:
I just got an angry email from a buyer objecting to my using registered mail for his $1600 gold coin.
And if you shipped it without insurance or security and it got lost, it would be your fault, too. Some people refuse to be satisfied.
Yeah. That's why I don't worry about it. 99.9% of people are great. The other 0.1% are on this forum. [Kidding!]
I did have a weird one last week. Woman bought 2 Hess trucks using 2 different zero feedback accounts that she opened that day. If it were bullion, I'd be worried. I tried to contact to clarify but then just shipped. But, here's the fun part, I couldn't group them because even though they had the same shipping address, they had different user names.
@jmlanzaf said:
I just got an angry email from a buyer objecting to my using registered mail for his $1600 gold coin.
And if you shipped it without insurance or security and it got lost, it would be your fault, too. Some people refuse to be satisfied.
Yeah. That's why I don't worry about it. 99.9% of people are great. The other 0.1% are on this forum. [Kidding!]
I did have a weird one last week. Woman bought 2 Hess trucks using 2 different zero feedback accounts that she opened that day. If it were bullion, I'd be worried. I tried to contact to clarify but then just shipped. But, here's the fun part, I couldn't group them because even though they had the same shipping address, they had different user names.
At one point there was an eBay promo where you got a $5 coupon when opening a new account. I could see someone opening two new accounts to get it twice (if there is still such a program). Otherwise it is a bit odd (especially if both accounts use the same address).
@PhilLynott said:
I would give a full refund but not gonna lie I'd block you too afterwards.
Then why accept refunds. I’ve been selling on ebay since 2013 or 14. Ive had many items returned. I never blocked anybody.
100
If you take returns the “reasons” do not matter. Do not be childish by blocking people. If you have an abuser to the system handle with exception management. Simple.
@bp777 said:
I had a gold coin stolen by USPS, a gold coin returned because the purchasers spouse died after receiving the Covid vaccine and he needed the money, and a nice NGC CC Morgan returned because my pictures were not good enough. Was it a nuisance to return the electronic digits? No! I never complained. I never looked at myself in the mirror with tears rolling down my face. I never got angry! I took it look a man and returned those electronic digits, because said items were my responsibility. And I never blocked them. What kind of person blocks a customer?
@jmlanzaf said:
Yeah. That's why I don't worry about it. 99.9% of people are great. The other 0.1% are on this forum. [Kidding!]
I did have a weird one last week. Woman bought 2 Hess trucks using 2 different zero feedback accounts that she opened that day. If it were bullion, I'd be worried. I tried to contact to clarify but then just shipped. But, here's the fun part, I couldn't group them because even though they had the same shipping address, they had different user names.
i love to read/hear people say stuff like that. (the first sentence)
i've had some stuff like that recently and completely baffled me. i even sent messages asking if i could just ship the items together since they were the said addresses but different accounts and names. as expected, no responses. i COULD have shipped together anyway and now n then i do but sometimes i get the willies thinking about getting caught up with some half-wits so i just opt to ship separately and sleep a bit better. (i know i can't add the tracking to the second listing in instances like this, was just hoping for someone with a bit of decency/sense and the honor system could apply)
(not that i'm picking or complaining, just observing, i REALLY think i get a lot of buyers that don't speak english, or at least read it anyway)
for me, over the long run, nothing competes with quality of life.
. (there is a postal option, along with ups and MAYBE fedex, to forego signature and authorizing the institution to be the signee) so it may behoove some of you to see if you did file/agree to such an option and perhaps forgot? i think i've done it with usps and ups.
I have this set up for usps but I have a secure common post box so I'm not too worried. Those who don't have a secure box would be wise to probably not use this unless you are in a relatively rural area.
Regarding the blocking of users, if someone doesn't like the coin in hand as much as they thought I'd take it back. I recognize buying from pictures is risky business...it's not the same as buying in person. That's why I am constantly experimenting and trying to improve to give people full pictures of the coins they are buying so there is little doubt or surprises. So far so good 🤞
However if someone returned multiple coins and didn't keep any, after only so many I would block them. This isn't a charity. Or, like the member here who saw his item for sale on the buyers store before attempting to return, that would be blockable.
In short, it depends on the situation. A single return wouldn't lead to a block from me unless it was egregious. Don't like it? Just return it. No harm no foul.
@fathom said:
The big retailers survive and even thrive with the no questions asked return.
I can see tiny retailers getting perturbed but if they are so small they cannot handle a $400 return then they should probably not be in retailing.
And there are costs. I sold a silver kilo in May. Silver dropped. The buyer filed a charge back 5 months later. It ended up costing me over $200 for that return. You think that's a reasonable use of returns? I should expect all bullion sales to be returned if bullion drops?
If you don't understand why big and small retailers hate return abuse, maybe you should do a little retailing yourself. You might feel differently.
@fathom said:
The big retailers survive and even thrive with the no questions asked return.
I can see tiny retailers getting perturbed but if they are so small they cannot handle a $400 return then they should probably not be in retailing.
And there are costs. I sold a silver kilo in May. Silver dropped. The buyer filed a charge back 5 months later. It ended up costing me over $200 for that return. You think that's a reasonable use of returns? I should expect all bullion sales to be returned if bullion drops?
If you don't understand why big and small retailers hate return abuse, maybe you should do a little retailing yourself. You might feel differently.
I will say, as I’ve said in another thread when you mentioned this, but that is complete BS. Bullion sales should be treated much differently than numismatic coins. I think a 5-10% restocking fee plus postage would not be unreasonable.
Edit: On second thought, that wouldn’t solve anything I guess since the buyer could file a chargeback with their credit card anyway.
@spyglassdesign said:
In short, it depends on the situation. A single return wouldn't lead to a block from me unless it was egregious.
Returning something without even looking at it because you found something else to spend your money on seems pretty egregious to me.
Agree but how do you know if they looked at it? Edit: I suppose one way is if the package comes back unopened (depending on how well it's secured)... Then it would be obvious. At that point I would probably at least consider a block.
@fathom said:
The big retailers survive and even thrive with the no questions asked return.
I can see tiny retailers getting perturbed but if they are so small they cannot handle a $400 return then they should probably not be in retailing.
And there are costs. I sold a silver kilo in May. Silver dropped. The buyer filed a charge back 5 months later. It ended up costing me over $200 for that return. You think that's a reasonable use of returns? I should expect all bullion sales to be returned if bullion drops?
If you don't understand why big and small retailers hate return abuse, maybe you should do a little retailing yourself. You might feel differently.
I agree. Bullion isn't special. They all look the same. Should be no returns on bullion without a market loss charge like the big boys charge so they can't do that crap to you/us
@fathom said:
The big retailers survive and even thrive with the no questions asked return.
I can see tiny retailers getting perturbed but if they are so small they cannot handle a $400 return then they should probably not be in retailing.
And there are costs. I sold a silver kilo in May. Silver dropped. The buyer filed a charge back 5 months later. It ended up costing me over $200 for that return. You think that's a reasonable use of returns? I should expect all bullion sales to be returned if bullion drops?
If you don't understand why big and small retailers hate return abuse, maybe you should do a little retailing yourself. You might feel differently.
I agree. Bullion isn't special. They all look the same. Should be no returns on bullion without a market loss charge like the big boys charge so they can't do that crap to you/us
There's no way around it. Some CC allow charge backs up to 18 months after purchase. The abuse is why there are blacklists (see my link above) because the CC company doesn't care. They are happy to reverse the charge. In some cases, they get paid a second time due processing the charge back. It's the retailer who takes it in the shorts.
@fathom said:
The big retailers survive and even thrive with the no questions asked return.
I can see tiny retailers getting perturbed but if they are so small they cannot handle a $400 return then they should probably not be in retailing.
And there are costs. I sold a silver kilo in May. Silver dropped. The buyer filed a charge back 5 months later. It ended up costing me over $200 for that return. You think that's a reasonable use of returns? I should expect all bullion sales to be returned if bullion drops?
If you don't understand why big and small retailers hate return abuse, maybe you should do a little retailing yourself. You might feel differently.
That's a foolish response to someone who has done more retailing than yourself.
@fathom said:
The big retailers survive and even thrive with the no questions asked return.
I can see tiny retailers getting perturbed but if they are so small they cannot handle a $400 return then they should probably not be in retailing.
And there are costs. I sold a silver kilo in May. Silver dropped. The buyer filed a charge back 5 months later. It ended up costing me over $200 for that return. You think that's a reasonable use of returns? I should expect all bullion sales to be returned if bullion drops?
If you don't understand why big and small retailers hate return abuse, maybe you should do a little retailing yourself. You might feel differently.
That's a foolish response to someone who has done more retailing than yourself.
Sorry, it was a response to what appears to be an ignorant post from someone who has done so much retailing. You should know about the blacklisting and other efforts by major retailer's to deal with abusive returns. Instead you post about how all is rosy for retailers with "no questions asked returns."
I bought a coin from Canyon City Coin, it is a great looking coin, still have it. Sorry your having trouble. I understand the option for blocking buyers on Ebay. I was blocked for asking to many questions once before I bought anything!! Lots of coins and lots of sellers still left however and there is always all the great auction houses to bid and buy from!
I know the article link was posted because of the topic of returns but I have to admit this line jumped out at me:
"In fact, 98% of consumers said that free shipping was the most important consideration when shopping online..."
How clueless do you have to be to think that shipping is free?
It's retail psychology. People would rather buy something for $25.00 with a 20% discount than $20 with no discount. People would rather pay $25 for an item with free shipping than $20 + $5 shipping.
There used to be a comic book store in town. They were in business for 30+ years until the 2 brothers died. I knew them casually. They priced everything at 2x guide + 10%. Every Sunday was 50% off everything in the store. Now, if you do the math, that's still 10% over guide. Nonetheless, you could barely get in the door on Sundays. People aren't as clever as they think they are.
I recently bought a bunch of miniature guitar replicas from a local toy dealer. He had run about half of them on eBay in an auction starting at $19.99 with $5 shipping. He only sold 5 out of 30 of them, so he sold me the remaining 65 for $5 each. I listed them at $29.99 with free shipping. I sold about 15 of them at full price. Whenever someone was watching, I sent them an offer at $25. I only have about 20 of them left after 10 days.
@jmlanzaf said:
It's retail psychology. People would rather buy something for $25.00 with a 20% discount than $20 with no discount. People would rather pay $25 for an item with free shipping than $20 + $5 shipping.
Hard to argue with that. On the plus side as a seller, when someone buys 10 items with free shipping, they pay 10x for shipping.
@logger7 said:
I'd question the practice of publicly embarrassing a company which as far as I know is against the rules on this forum. Since ebay enforces full refunds I don't see why the buyer is not working through them. There are many raw coin sellers on ebay, one of the few places where sellers can do that on an auction or buy it now basis. Also the limit to listing raw coins is $2499 on ebay, over that the coins have to be certified.
I had one transaction with CCC several years ago. Was not happy with the coins I received. They cheerfully refunded my money even though the coins they sold me were a few rolls of "unsearched, original bank rolls" that I had opened and inspected. I gave them positive feedback because they were cool about refunding my money.
I argued that unsearched, original bank rolls of pennies from 1948 should have a few really nice ones from the '30's and possibly late '20's in the rolls. Even the '40's dated pieces had inordinate amount of wear, in my opinion. No mint luster on ANY of the many '40's dated pennies? Give me my money back, which is what they did. Sometimes one just needs to learn their lesson and move on.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@logger7 said:
I'd question the practice of publicly embarrassing a company which as far as I know is against the rules on this forum. Since ebay enforces full refunds I don't see why the buyer is not working through them. There are many raw coin sellers on ebay, one of the few places where sellers can do that on an auction or buy it now basis. Also the limit to listing raw coins is $2499 on ebay, over that the coins have to be certified.
I had one transaction with CCC several years ago. Was not happy with the coins I received. They cheerfully refunded my money even though the coins they sold me were a few rolls of "unsearched, original bank rolls" that I had opened and inspected. I gave them positive feedback because they were cool about refunding my money.
I argued that unsearched, original bank rolls of pennies from 1948 should have a few really nice ones from the '30's and possibly late '20's in the rolls. Even the '40's dated pieces had inordinate amount of wear, in my opinion. No mint luster on ANY of the many '40's dated pennies? Give me my money back, which is what they did. Sometimes one just needs to learn their lesson and move on.
Sounds like you didn’t just “move on.”
You fell for the oldest scam on eBay - “original, unsearched roll”
Instead of moving on, you requested a refund after opening the rolls and looking through all of the coins.
@logger7 said:
I'd question the practice of publicly embarrassing a company which as far as I know is against the rules on this forum. Since ebay enforces full refunds I don't see why the buyer is not working through them. There are many raw coin sellers on ebay, one of the few places where sellers can do that on an auction or buy it now basis. Also the limit to listing raw coins is $2499 on ebay, over that the coins have to be certified.
I had one transaction with CCC several years ago. Was not happy with the coins I received. They cheerfully refunded my money even though the coins they sold me were a few rolls of "unsearched, original bank rolls" that I had opened and inspected. I gave them positive feedback because they were cool about refunding my money.
I argued that unsearched, original bank rolls of pennies from 1948 should have a few really nice ones from the '30's and possibly late '20's in the rolls. Even the '40's dated pieces had inordinate amount of wear, in my opinion. No mint luster on ANY of the many '40's dated pennies? Give me my money back, which is what they did. Sometimes one just needs to learn their lesson and move on.
Sounds like you didn’t just “move on.”
You fell for the oldest scam on eBay - “original, unsearched roll”
Instead of moving on, you requested a refund after opening the rolls and looking through all of the coins.
I don't think that requesting a refund after having inspected the rolls and later leaving positive feedback is inconsistent with "move on".
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@logger7 said:
I'd question the practice of publicly embarrassing a company which as far as I know is against the rules on this forum. Since ebay enforces full refunds I don't see why the buyer is not working through them. There are many raw coin sellers on ebay, one of the few places where sellers can do that on an auction or buy it now basis. Also the limit to listing raw coins is $2499 on ebay, over that the coins have to be certified.
I had one transaction with CCC several years ago. Was not happy with the coins I received. They cheerfully refunded my money even though the coins they sold me were a few rolls of "unsearched, original bank rolls" that I had opened and inspected. I gave them positive feedback because they were cool about refunding my money.
I argued that unsearched, original bank rolls of pennies from 1948 should have a few really nice ones from the '30's and possibly late '20's in the rolls. Even the '40's dated pieces had inordinate amount of wear, in my opinion. No mint luster on ANY of the many '40's dated pennies? Give me my money back, which is what they did. Sometimes one just needs to learn their lesson and move on.
Sounds like you didn’t just “move on.”
You fell for the oldest scam on eBay - “original, unsearched roll”
Instead of moving on, you requested a refund after opening the rolls and looking through all of the coins.
I don't think that requesting a refund after having inspected the rolls and later leaving positive feedback is inconsistent with "move on".
I am rather surprised that nothing has been done about this thread. It is still "warning" people not to do business with an entity.
Apparently CCC has had many complaints and has been accused of many shady business dealings. Whatever. They have many great coins. But beware! If you make them mad, theyll block you. First time i ever returned an item and it will also be the last.
Good for you; you complied with the refund procedure and are entitled to a full refund.
Since CCC has 100% feedback, with 0 negs in their then of thousands of sales, they MUST have had a good return policy over the years.
Buyers like the OP are the reason I no longer give free shipping, since I want potential buyers to have a little more skin in the game than the return postage fee. I would automatically block the OP, since he is not the kind of buyer I with which I choose to deal. Nothing personal, just good business.
It makes no difference whether it is "free shipping" or "cost + shipping". If they file a SNAD with eBay, they will be refunded both as well as making you pay the return shipping.
In fact, arguably, charging them shipping actually encourages SNAD and chargebacks rather than straight returns. A SNAD basically is a straight return, but a charge back could take 3 months or more to resolve.
I read most of this thread and I'm surprised how SNAD returns are mentioned infrequently. eBay doesn't scrutinize the buyer's gripe with the coin, they always simply issue a refund and force the seller to pay for a shipping label. It doesn't matter what the seller's return policy or restocking policy is, buyer always has a way to get a full refund and free postage for the return with a SNAD.
Sellers would be better off to offer free postage and no-postage-charge refunds, because that's what the buyer will get with a SNAD return. It's a huge vulnerability to sellers, but that kind of security brings more buyers' eyes to the platform.
For the record, I've never done a SNAD return for coins, just once when a Chinese seller sent an adult size costume when I ordered a kids size for my son. I would normally just return it but the return address was in Chinese and it would have cost like $30 to return a $20 item. I SNADed it and wore an uncomfortably tight Black Panther costume that Halloween. I'm going to hell already so I figured what's one more sin.
Apparently CCC has had many complaints and has been accused of many shady business dealings. Whatever. They have many great coins. But beware! If you make them mad, theyll block you. First time i ever returned an item and it will also be the last.
Good for you; you complied with the refund procedure and are entitled to a full refund.
Since CCC has 100% feedback, with 0 negs in their then of thousands of sales, they MUST have had a good return policy over the years.
Buyers like the OP are the reason I no longer give free shipping, since I want potential buyers to have a little more skin in the game than the return postage fee. I would automatically block the OP, since he is not the kind of buyer I with which I choose to deal. Nothing personal, just good business.
It makes no difference whether it is "free shipping" or "cost + shipping". If they file a SNAD with eBay, they will be refunded both as well as making you pay the return shipping.
In fact, arguably, charging them shipping actually encourages SNAD and chargebacks rather than straight returns. A SNAD basically is a straight return, but a charge back could take 3 months or more to resolve.
I read most of this thread and I'm surprised how SNAD returns are mentioned infrequently. eBay doesn't scrutinize the buyer's gripe with the coin, they always simply issue a refund and force the seller to pay for a shipping label. It doesn't matter what the seller's return policy or restocking policy is, buyer always has a way to get a full refund and free postage for the return with a SNAD.
Sellers would be better off to offer free postage and no-postage-charge refunds, because that's what the buyer will get with a SNAD return. It's a huge vulnerability to sellers, but that kind of security brings more buyers' eyes to the platform.
For the record, I've never done a SNAD return for coins, just once when a Chinese seller sent an adult size costume when I ordered a kids size for my son. I would normally just return it but the return address was in Chinese and it would have cost like $30 to return a $20 item. I SNADed it and wore an uncomfortably tight Black Panther costume that Halloween. I'm going to hell already so I figured what's one more sin.
Considering that various forum members have posted about instances in which SNAD claims were disallowed by eBay, it's incorrect to state " eBay doesn't scrutinize the buyer's gripe with the coin, they always simply issue a refund and force the seller to pay for a shipping label. It doesn't matter what the seller's return policy or restocking policy is, buyer always has a way to get a full refund and free postage for the return with a SNAD."
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Apparently CCC has had many complaints and has been accused of many shady business dealings. Whatever. They have many great coins. But beware! If you make them mad, theyll block you. First time i ever returned an item and it will also be the last.
Good for you; you complied with the refund procedure and are entitled to a full refund.
Since CCC has 100% feedback, with 0 negs in their then of thousands of sales, they MUST have had a good return policy over the years.
Buyers like the OP are the reason I no longer give free shipping, since I want potential buyers to have a little more skin in the game than the return postage fee. I would automatically block the OP, since he is not the kind of buyer I with which I choose to deal. Nothing personal, just good business.
It makes no difference whether it is "free shipping" or "cost + shipping". If they file a SNAD with eBay, they will be refunded both as well as making you pay the return shipping.
In fact, arguably, charging them shipping actually encourages SNAD and chargebacks rather than straight returns. A SNAD basically is a straight return, but a charge back could take 3 months or more to resolve.
I read most of this thread and I'm surprised how SNAD returns are mentioned infrequently. eBay doesn't scrutinize the buyer's gripe with the coin, they always simply issue a refund and force the seller to pay for a shipping label. It doesn't matter what the seller's return policy or restocking policy is, buyer always has a way to get a full refund and free postage for the return with a SNAD.
Sellers would be better off to offer free postage and no-postage-charge refunds, because that's what the buyer will get with a SNAD return. It's a huge vulnerability to sellers, but that kind of security brings more buyers' eyes to the platform.
For the record, I've never done a SNAD return for coins, just once when a Chinese seller sent an adult size costume when I ordered a kids size for my son. I would normally just return it but the return address was in Chinese and it would have cost like $30 to return a $20 item. I SNADed it and wore an uncomfortably tight Black Panther costume that Halloween. I'm going to hell already so I figured what's one more sin.
I agree. Buyers want free shipping and returns. Buyers can curve returns on you anyway, either through eBay or the CC company.
If you want the really scary side. I had that bullion charge back after 5 months that I've mentioned. While talking to ebay about the buyer's willingness to send the coin back for a refund and end the charge back, eBay told me to do it. They said that if the CC company rules against me, and they usually do, they will refund the buyer and give them 2 weeks to return the item. But, MOST OF THE TIME THEY DON'T RETURN THE ITEM. At that point, only ebay seller guarantees give you any chance of being made whole.
Apparently CCC has had many complaints and has been accused of many shady business dealings. Whatever. They have many great coins. But beware! If you make them mad, theyll block you. First time i ever returned an item and it will also be the last.
Good for you; you complied with the refund procedure and are entitled to a full refund.
Since CCC has 100% feedback, with 0 negs in their then of thousands of sales, they MUST have had a good return policy over the years.
Buyers like the OP are the reason I no longer give free shipping, since I want potential buyers to have a little more skin in the game than the return postage fee. I would automatically block the OP, since he is not the kind of buyer I with which I choose to deal. Nothing personal, just good business.
It makes no difference whether it is "free shipping" or "cost + shipping". If they file a SNAD with eBay, they will be refunded both as well as making you pay the return shipping.
In fact, arguably, charging them shipping actually encourages SNAD and chargebacks rather than straight returns. A SNAD basically is a straight return, but a charge back could take 3 months or more to resolve.
I read most of this thread and I'm surprised how SNAD returns are mentioned infrequently. eBay doesn't scrutinize the buyer's gripe with the coin, they always simply issue a refund and force the seller to pay for a shipping label. It doesn't matter what the seller's return policy or restocking policy is, buyer always has a way to get a full refund and free postage for the return with a SNAD.
Sellers would be better off to offer free postage and no-postage-charge refunds, because that's what the buyer will get with a SNAD return. It's a huge vulnerability to sellers, but that kind of security brings more buyers' eyes to the platform.
For the record, I've never done a SNAD return for coins, just once when a Chinese seller sent an adult size costume when I ordered a kids size for my son. I would normally just return it but the return address was in Chinese and it would have cost like $30 to return a $20 item. I SNADed it and wore an uncomfortably tight Black Panther costume that Halloween. I'm going to hell already so I figured what's one more sin.
Considering that various forum members have posted about instances in which SNAD claims were disallowed by eBay, it's incorrect to state " eBay doesn't scrutinize the buyer's gripe with the coin, they always simply issue a refund and force the seller to pay for a shipping label. It doesn't matter what the seller's return policy or restocking policy is, buyer always has a way to get a full refund and free postage for the return with a SNAD."
Agree. EBay isn't the problem. The CC company is the bigger problem. They protect their customer and not the seller.. eBay tries to protect both.
Well I purchased probably 15 to 18 Washington Quarters for my BU raw set and they all looked really nice and none were cleaned that I could see. I did have two graded for my registry set and one graded MS-64 (I thought it would grade a 65) and the other graded MS-65, which is what I expected.
Sometimes I think people buy these and then post not to buy so they can get a better deal. I had no issues with the seller.
@logger7 said:
I'd question the practice of publicly embarrassing a company which as far as I know is against the rules on this forum. Since ebay enforces full refunds I don't see why the buyer is not working through them. There are many raw coin sellers on ebay, one of the few places where sellers can do that on an auction or buy it now basis. Also the limit to listing raw coins is $2499 on ebay, over that the coins have to be certified.
I had one transaction with CCC several years ago. Was not happy with the coins I received. They cheerfully refunded my money even though the coins they sold me were a few rolls of "unsearched, original bank rolls" that I had opened and inspected. I gave them positive feedback because they were cool about refunding my money.
I argued that unsearched, original bank rolls of pennies from 1948 should have a few really nice ones from the '30's and possibly late '20's in the rolls. Even the '40's dated pieces had inordinate amount of wear, in my opinion. No mint luster on ANY of the many '40's dated pennies? Give me my money back, which is what they did. Sometimes one just needs to learn their lesson and move on.
Sounds like you didn’t just “move on.”
You fell for the oldest scam on eBay - “original, unsearched roll”
Instead of moving on, you requested a refund after opening the rolls and looking through all of the coins.
Product misrepresented. I did move on. After getting my money back. What would you do? Accept the loss of money you paid without saying anything? These rolls were about $25 apiece as I recall. 10 cent coins paying 50 cents apiece for doesn't work for me, an experienced numismatist (since early '60's).
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@logger7 said:
I'd question the practice of publicly embarrassing a company which as far as I know is against the rules on this forum. Since ebay enforces full refunds I don't see why the buyer is not working through them. There are many raw coin sellers on ebay, one of the few places where sellers can do that on an auction or buy it now basis. Also the limit to listing raw coins is $2499 on ebay, over that the coins have to be certified.
I had one transaction with CCC several years ago. Was not happy with the coins I received. They cheerfully refunded my money even though the coins they sold me were a few rolls of "unsearched, original bank rolls" that I had opened and inspected. I gave them positive feedback because they were cool about refunding my money.
I argued that unsearched, original bank rolls of pennies from 1948 should have a few really nice ones from the '30's and possibly late '20's in the rolls. Even the '40's dated pieces had inordinate amount of wear, in my opinion. No mint luster on ANY of the many '40's dated pennies? Give me my money back, which is what they did. Sometimes one just needs to learn their lesson and move on.
Sounds like you didn’t just “move on.”
You fell for the oldest scam on eBay - “original, unsearched roll”
Instead of moving on, you requested a refund after opening the rolls and looking through all of the coins.
I don't think that requesting a refund after having inspected the rolls and later leaving positive feedback is inconsistent with "move on".
Short of refunding my money, a negative from me would likely have happened. The positive feedback I gave was for cheerfully refunding my money. It's not my problem what someone else might do or not do under the circumstances.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I read most of this thread and I'm surprised how SNAD returns are mentioned infrequently. eBay doesn't scrutinize the buyer's gripe with the coin, they always simply issue a refund and force the seller to pay for a shipping label. It doesn't matter what the seller's return policy or restocking policy is, buyer always has a way to get a full refund and free postage for the return with a SNAD.
eBay has actually done a lot lately to eliminate the SNADs on the PSA side. Over a certain very low threshold sellers are required to send cards, raw or slabbed, to eBay for verification and then eBay sends them on to the buyer. After eBay confirms that the items it receives match the description, a SNAD is impossible.
I guess I assume something like that is eventually going to happen here.
I read most of this thread and I'm surprised how SNAD returns are mentioned infrequently. eBay doesn't scrutinize the buyer's gripe with the coin, they always simply issue a refund and force the seller to pay for a shipping label. It doesn't matter what the seller's return policy or restocking policy is, buyer always has a way to get a full refund and free postage for the return with a SNAD.
eBay has actually done a lot lately to eliminate the SNADs on the PSA side. Over a certain very low threshold sellers are required to send cards, raw or slabbed, to eBay for verification and then eBay sends them on to the buyer. After eBay confirms that the items it receives match the description, a SNAD is impossible.
I guess I assume something like that is eventually going to happen here.
Well, when they open the vault to coins, we'll know. LOL.
Comments
Can't argue with that. I hate to have to spend over four dollars to send something that should be able to ship for around 50 cents but buyers insist on tracking so if that's how it's going to be, I'm not going to eat the loss when the tracking shows "delivered".
surely having this affordable tracking has reduced the amount of back n forth about whether items (coins/cards etc) actually showed up and the amount of customer service ebay had to provide to help smooth things over for everyone. lo and behold, this was accomplished by putting the process into the hands of the members and it worked out fantastically. we as members of this planet and country need SOOOOOOO many more simple and effective solutions like this to everyone's betterment.
although, to be fair to us, surprisingly, like others here have stated, my success rate with shipping w/o tracking worked pretty well but i do sleep a bit better and list/sell more because it is in place.
if i had to venture a guess, i'd say because the stuff isn't that expensive for any one item to begin with, for myself anyway, i never really cared as much about the losses as i did figuring there were some nimrods out there abusing the honor system and ebay seemingly not having protocols in place for accounts with excessive refunds, claims, bid retractions etc and/or options for sellers to further filter out higher risk accounts. ALTHOUGH, i do believe some people do live in riskier situations leading to more claims but as hard as it sounds, that is not really a seller's problem, especially since the problem is we just can't know for sure whom is being honest or not.
if i could know 100% the buyer never did actually receive the item AND was not doing something lazy or stupid leading to potential claims, i would be HAPPY to split the difference with them. i've offered it before to buyers and i've had buyers offer such things to me and NGL, it puts a BIG smile on my face to be reasonable, decent, generous with people whom are of like mind.
Once upon a time, I refunded a buyer who claimed "non-receipt" because I shipped without tracking. Reviewing the feedback this buyer left, he claimed non-receipt on half the transactions on the first page of the feedback he left. Really?
I'm sure some do, but I can't do anything about that and I'm wondering why that should be my responsibility. Get a PO box, maybe?
Hell, I'd cover the loss entirely. But we're in the eBay universe of "Heads, buyers win and tails, sellers lose" so I'm not as trusting as I used to be.
I just got an angry email from a buyer objecting to my using registered mail for his $1600 gold coin. I apologized for trying to make sure he safely received his coin. Lol. He'll probably leave me negative feedback.
is signature working these days?
And if you shipped it without insurance or security and it got lost, it would be your fault, too. Some people refuse to be satisfied.
Yeah. That's why I don't worry about it. 99.9% of people are great. The other 0.1% are on this forum. [Kidding!]
I did have a weird one last week. Woman bought 2 Hess trucks using 2 different zero feedback accounts that she opened that day. If it were bullion, I'd be worried. I tried to contact to clarify but then just shipped. But, here's the fun part, I couldn't group them because even though they had the same shipping address, they had different user names.
At one point there was an eBay promo where you got a $5 coupon when opening a new account. I could see someone opening two new accounts to get it twice (if there is still such a program). Otherwise it is a bit odd (especially if both accounts use the same address).
100
If you take returns the “reasons” do not matter. Do not be childish by blocking people. If you have an abuser to the system handle with exception management. Simple.
Also agree. Thank you for being a good seller.
I want to know where @Cougar1978 does his grocery shopping? $100 for 2 weeks of food???
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
Changing your mind after waiting through an auction and winning is pissy.
i love to read/hear people say stuff like that. (the first sentence)
i've had some stuff like that recently and completely baffled me. i even sent messages asking if i could just ship the items together since they were the said addresses but different accounts and names. as expected, no responses. i COULD have shipped together anyway and now n then i do but sometimes i get the willies thinking about getting caught up with some half-wits so i just opt to ship separately and sleep a bit better. (i know i can't add the tracking to the second listing in instances like this, was just hoping for someone with a bit of decency/sense and the honor system could apply)
(not that i'm picking or complaining, just observing, i REALLY think i get a lot of buyers that don't speak english, or at least read it anyway)
for me, over the long run, nothing competes with quality of life.
Totally agree. If it is my fault in the listing or a really legitimate reason then I won't block them but otherwise do.
K
. (there is a postal option, along with ups and MAYBE fedex, to forego signature and authorizing the institution to be the signee) so it may behoove some of you to see if you did file/agree to such an option and perhaps forgot? i think i've done it with usps and ups.
I have this set up for usps but I have a secure common post box so I'm not too worried. Those who don't have a secure box would be wise to probably not use this unless you are in a relatively rural area.
Glad it finally settled out tho!
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
Regarding the blocking of users, if someone doesn't like the coin in hand as much as they thought I'd take it back. I recognize buying from pictures is risky business...it's not the same as buying in person. That's why I am constantly experimenting and trying to improve to give people full pictures of the coins they are buying so there is little doubt or surprises. So far so good 🤞
However if someone returned multiple coins and didn't keep any, after only so many I would block them. This isn't a charity. Or, like the member here who saw his item for sale on the buyers store before attempting to return, that would be blockable.
In short, it depends on the situation. A single return wouldn't lead to a block from me unless it was egregious. Don't like it? Just return it. No harm no foul.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
Returning something without even looking at it because you found something else to spend your money on seems pretty egregious to me.
The big retailers survive and even thrive with the no questions asked return.
I can see tiny retailers getting perturbed but if they are so small they cannot handle a $400 return then they should probably not be in retailing.
For the record, the big retailers also block people and even share data so they can block people who never even shopped there before.
https://www.mic.com/articles/188629/in-store-return-policy-blacklist-retail-equation-rar-return-activity-report
OP says he got a full refund. The seller seemed to be able to handle the return, after all.
And there are costs. I sold a silver kilo in May. Silver dropped. The buyer filed a charge back 5 months later. It ended up costing me over $200 for that return. You think that's a reasonable use of returns? I should expect all bullion sales to be returned if bullion drops?
If you don't understand why big and small retailers hate return abuse, maybe you should do a little retailing yourself. You might feel differently.
I will say, as I’ve said in another thread when you mentioned this, but that is complete BS. Bullion sales should be treated much differently than numismatic coins. I think a 5-10% restocking fee plus postage would not be unreasonable.
Edit: On second thought, that wouldn’t solve anything I guess since the buyer could file a chargeback with their credit card anyway.
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Is CCC a part of the Professional Numismatics Guild?
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
Agree but how do you know if they looked at it? Edit: I suppose one way is if the package comes back unopened (depending on how well it's secured)... Then it would be obvious. At that point I would probably at least consider a block.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
I agree. Bullion isn't special. They all look the same. Should be no returns on bullion without a market loss charge like the big boys charge so they can't do that crap to you/us
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
Because the buyer said he didn't look at it.
There's no way around it. Some CC allow charge backs up to 18 months after purchase. The abuse is why there are blacklists (see my link above) because the CC company doesn't care. They are happy to reverse the charge. In some cases, they get paid a second time due processing the charge back. It's the retailer who takes it in the shorts.
That's a foolish response to someone who has done more retailing than yourself.
Sorry, it was a response to what appears to be an ignorant post from someone who has done so much retailing. You should know about the blacklisting and other efforts by major retailer's to deal with abusive returns. Instead you post about how all is rosy for retailers with "no questions asked returns."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/11/04/free-returns-may-be-over-as-retailers-introduce-stricter-policies.html
https://www.wsj.com/articles/banned-from-amazon-the-shoppers-who-make-too-many-returns-1526981401
I bought a coin from Canyon City Coin, it is a great looking coin, still have it. Sorry your having trouble. I understand the option for blocking buyers on Ebay. I was blocked for asking to many questions once before I bought anything!!
Lots of coins and lots of sellers still left however and there is always all the great auction houses to bid and buy from!
I know the article link was posted because of the topic of returns but I have to admit this line jumped out at me:
"In fact, 98% of consumers said that free shipping was the most important consideration when shopping online..."
How clueless do you have to be to think that shipping is free?
It's retail psychology. People would rather buy something for $25.00 with a 20% discount than $20 with no discount. People would rather pay $25 for an item with free shipping than $20 + $5 shipping.
There used to be a comic book store in town. They were in business for 30+ years until the 2 brothers died. I knew them casually. They priced everything at 2x guide + 10%. Every Sunday was 50% off everything in the store. Now, if you do the math, that's still 10% over guide. Nonetheless, you could barely get in the door on Sundays. People aren't as clever as they think they are.
I recently bought a bunch of miniature guitar replicas from a local toy dealer. He had run about half of them on eBay in an auction starting at $19.99 with $5 shipping. He only sold 5 out of 30 of them, so he sold me the remaining 65 for $5 each. I listed them at $29.99 with free shipping. I sold about 15 of them at full price. Whenever someone was watching, I sent them an offer at $25. I only have about 20 of them left after 10 days.
Hard to argue with that. On the plus side as a seller, when someone buys 10 items with free shipping, they pay 10x for shipping.
I had one transaction with CCC several years ago. Was not happy with the coins I received. They cheerfully refunded my money even though the coins they sold me were a few rolls of "unsearched, original bank rolls" that I had opened and inspected. I gave them positive feedback because they were cool about refunding my money.
I argued that unsearched, original bank rolls of pennies from 1948 should have a few really nice ones from the '30's and possibly late '20's in the rolls. Even the '40's dated pieces had inordinate amount of wear, in my opinion. No mint luster on ANY of the many '40's dated pennies? Give me my money back, which is what they did. Sometimes one just needs to learn their lesson and move on.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
EVERY coin from original roll or bag. EVERY coin picture looks like it’s from a cartoon. 63 revised feedbacks. Danger Will Robinson Danger.
$100 can buy a lot of top ramen noodles.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Sounds like you didn’t just “move on.”
You fell for the oldest scam on eBay - “original, unsearched roll”
Instead of moving on, you requested a refund after opening the rolls and looking through all of the coins.
I don't think that requesting a refund after having inspected the rolls and later leaving positive feedback is inconsistent with "move on".
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I am rather surprised that nothing has been done about this thread. It is still "warning" people not to do business with an entity.
I read most of this thread and I'm surprised how SNAD returns are mentioned infrequently. eBay doesn't scrutinize the buyer's gripe with the coin, they always simply issue a refund and force the seller to pay for a shipping label. It doesn't matter what the seller's return policy or restocking policy is, buyer always has a way to get a full refund and free postage for the return with a SNAD.
Sellers would be better off to offer free postage and no-postage-charge refunds, because that's what the buyer will get with a SNAD return. It's a huge vulnerability to sellers, but that kind of security brings more buyers' eyes to the platform.
For the record, I've never done a SNAD return for coins, just once when a Chinese seller sent an adult size costume when I ordered a kids size for my son. I would normally just return it but the return address was in Chinese and it would have cost like $30 to return a $20 item. I SNADed it and wore an uncomfortably tight Black Panther costume that Halloween. I'm going to hell already so I figured what's one more sin.
Considering that various forum members have posted about instances in which SNAD claims were disallowed by eBay, it's incorrect to state " eBay doesn't scrutinize the buyer's gripe with the coin, they always simply issue a refund and force the seller to pay for a shipping label. It doesn't matter what the seller's return policy or restocking policy is, buyer always has a way to get a full refund and free postage for the return with a SNAD."
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I agree. Buyers want free shipping and returns. Buyers can curve returns on you anyway, either through eBay or the CC company.
If you want the really scary side. I had that bullion charge back after 5 months that I've mentioned. While talking to ebay about the buyer's willingness to send the coin back for a refund and end the charge back, eBay told me to do it. They said that if the CC company rules against me, and they usually do, they will refund the buyer and give them 2 weeks to return the item. But, MOST OF THE TIME THEY DON'T RETURN THE ITEM. At that point, only ebay seller guarantees give you any chance of being made whole.
Agree. EBay isn't the problem. The CC company is the bigger problem. They protect their customer and not the seller.. eBay tries to protect both.
This thread has been going on for so long I forgot that part lol... Thanks!
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
Maybe the op should change the title to resolved since it's been resolved for a while now?
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
Well I purchased probably 15 to 18 Washington Quarters for my BU raw set and they all looked really nice and none were cleaned that I could see. I did have two graded for my registry set and one graded MS-64 (I thought it would grade a 65) and the other graded MS-65, which is what I expected.
Sometimes I think people buy these and then post not to buy so they can get a better deal. I had no issues with the seller.
Here is my Washington Quarter Variety Registry Set
This is my Washington Quarter Proof Variety Registry Set
Product misrepresented. I did move on. After getting my money back. What would you do? Accept the loss of money you paid without saying anything? These rolls were about $25 apiece as I recall. 10 cent coins paying 50 cents apiece for doesn't work for me, an experienced numismatist (since early '60's).
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Short of refunding my money, a negative from me would likely have happened. The positive feedback I gave was for cheerfully refunding my money. It's not my problem what someone else might do or not do under the circumstances.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
eBay has actually done a lot lately to eliminate the SNADs on the PSA side. Over a certain very low threshold sellers are required to send cards, raw or slabbed, to eBay for verification and then eBay sends them on to the buyer. After eBay confirms that the items it receives match the description, a SNAD is impossible.
I guess I assume something like that is eventually going to happen here.
Well, when they open the vault to coins, we'll know. LOL.