@bp777 said:
I guess I’m too nice and too mature. All I wanted to do was warn people. This is new to me and has never happened to me before. And this thread is getting out of hand. But that’s not bad. Everybody should be entitled to their own opinion. I’m just shocked that full grown adults encourage blocking people. Honestly, that never crossed my mind. I can see why people block trolls. But blocking somebody that returns an item to somebody that initially said returns are welcome is ,to me, insane. But apparently not. Hopefully newbies see this thread and learn something.
This thread hardly shows your maturity. I eat my mistakes. I would have simply sold it on eBay, perhaps lost a few bucks, but would have kept my relationship with the seller. It takes time and work to photo and list and auction items and have to redo it when someone returns something for wishy washy reasons. i don't blame the seller.
I don't know about other states but in Pa. when the hammer goes down (or the auctioneer says sold), the high bidder is obligated to purchase the item. It is a legal contract. No returns unless agreed to by both parties (buyer and seller).
Auctions wins are not approval services.
also if you just refund in the return process and end it right there. there is no reason you should have been charged shipping for a return in that instance, no matter how loopy a customer is. lol
If you try to sell me a fake, you pay ALL shipping or you get a negative review.
@bp777 said:
I guess I’m too nice and too mature. All I wanted to do was warn people. This is new to me and has never happened to me before. And this thread is getting out of hand. But that’s not bad. Everybody should be entitled to their own opinion. I’m just shocked that full grown adults encourage blocking people. Honestly, that never crossed my mind. I can see why people block trolls. But blocking somebody that returns an item to somebody that initially said returns are welcome is ,to me, insane. But apparently not. Hopefully newbies see this thread and learn something.
This thread hardly shows your maturity. I eat my mistakes. I would have simply sold it on eBay, perhaps lost a few bucks, but would have kept my relationship with the seller. It takes time and work to photo and list and auction items and have to redo it when someone returns something for wishy washy reasons. i don't blame the seller.
The worst thing about relisting is the level of suspicion increases dramatically. This tends to be a downward force on prices.
Auctions wins are not approval services.
Well they shouldn't be, but eBay is changing that, and CC companies are making it even worse.
@bp777 said:
I guess I’m too nice and too mature. All I wanted to do was warn people. This is new to me and has never happened to me before. And this thread is getting out of hand. But that’s not bad. Everybody should be entitled to their own opinion. I’m just shocked that full grown adults encourage blocking people. Honestly, that never crossed my mind. I can see why people block trolls. But blocking somebody that returns an item to somebody that initially said returns are welcome is ,to me, insane. But apparently not. Hopefully newbies see this thread and learn something.
This thread hardly shows your maturity. I eat my mistakes. I would have simply sold it on eBay, perhaps lost a few bucks, but would have kept my relationship with the seller. It takes time and work to photo and list and auction items and have to redo it when someone returns something for wishy washy reasons. i don't blame the seller.
I don't know about other states but in Pa. when the hammer goes down (or the auctioneer says sold), the high bidder is obligated to purchase the item. It is a legal contract. No returns unless agreed to by both parties (buyer and seller).
Auctions wins are not approval services.
You “don’t blame the seller”, even though he allegedly lied about the changed condition of the coin, failed to honor a return privilege and withheld $400 from the buyer? It sure doesn’t sound like you would have just “lost a few bucks” if, as a buyer, you’d eaten your mistake and “simply sold it on eBay”. The buyer’s behavior didn’t excuse the alleged actions of the seller, if true.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@bp777 said:
I guess I’m too nice and too mature. All I wanted to do was warn people. This is new to me and has never happened to me before. And this thread is getting out of hand. But that’s not bad. Everybody should be entitled to their own opinion. I’m just shocked that full grown adults encourage blocking people. Honestly, that never crossed my mind. I can see why people block trolls. But blocking somebody that returns an item to somebody that initially said returns are welcome is ,to me, insane. But apparently not. Hopefully newbies see this thread and learn something.
This thread hardly shows your maturity. I eat my mistakes. I would have simply sold it on eBay, perhaps lost a few bucks, but would have kept my relationship with the seller. It takes time and work to photo and list and auction items and have to redo it when someone returns something for wishy washy reasons. i don't blame the seller.
I don't know about other states but in Pa. when the hammer goes down (or the auctioneer says sold), the high bidder is obligated to purchase the item. It is a legal contract. No returns unless agreed to by both parties (buyer and seller).
Auctions wins are not approval services.
You “don’t blame the seller”, even though he allegedly lied about the changed condition of the coin, failed to honor a return privilege and withheld $400 from the buyer? It sure doesn’t sound like you would have just “lost a few bucks” if, as a buyer, you’d eaten your mistake and “simply sold it on eBay”. The buyer’s behavior didn’t excuse the alleged actions of the seller, if true.
If, If, If. Lot of If's in there MFeld. I have bought hundreds of items on ebay and have only returned one because it was broke when I got it and it was also the wrong item (not a coin-- a light bulb). Yes, if it is my fault, I eat it, weather you believe it or not. I still have an unopened box that I got from an auction a year ago that I misbid on. (A tube for an old radio)
I cannot judge the seller without seeing his point of view. I do blame the seller for withholding $400 that certainly is wrong, but not from blocking the buyer. The OP does not state this loss in the Opening post.
eBay adds to the problem by not allowing email contact after banning. Sometimes you can work something out after the fact, but not without communication.
My biggest issue with CCC is that almost all of the coins I’ve purchase that were described BU GEM coveted “Pristine designation” ended up being cleaned. I even submitted a few of them to PCGS I thought looked okay and they came back cleaned (all but one and the one was MS63 - technically not GEM). From my experience (having bought at least 6 to 8 of their coins over last few years) I have to believe that the raw coins sold by CCC are still raw because they will not straight grade. The ones that will grade they have graded, and then sell them for way over greysheets pricing. Some of their raw coins they are selling now were probably submitted in the past as a “do not holder details” and then sold raw as a “BU GEM” coin to unsuspecting buyers. Although I have done some business with them in the past, I will not in the future. In my opinion those raw coins they sell are mostly details cleaned coins and they know it. Just my opinion from experience.
@bp777 said:
I guess I’m too nice and too mature. All I wanted to do was warn people. This is new to me and has never happened to me before. And this thread is getting out of hand. But that’s not bad. Everybody should be entitled to their own opinion. I’m just shocked that full grown adults encourage blocking people. Honestly, that never crossed my mind. I can see why people block trolls. But blocking somebody that returns an item to somebody that initially said returns are welcome is ,to me, insane. But apparently not. Hopefully newbies see this thread and learn something.
This thread hardly shows your maturity. I eat my mistakes. I would have simply sold it on eBay, perhaps lost a few bucks, but would have kept my relationship with the seller. It takes time and work to photo and list and auction items and have to redo it when someone returns something for wishy washy reasons. i don't blame the seller.
I don't know about other states but in Pa. when the hammer goes down (or the auctioneer says sold), the high bidder is obligated to purchase the item. It is a legal contract. No returns unless agreed to by both parties (buyer and seller).
Auctions wins are not approval services.
You “don’t blame the seller”, even though he allegedly lied about the changed condition of the coin, failed to honor a return privilege and withheld $400 from the buyer? It sure doesn’t sound like you would have just “lost a few bucks” if, as a buyer, you’d eaten your mistake and “simply sold it on eBay”. The buyer’s behavior didn’t excuse the alleged actions of the seller, if true.
If, If, If. Lot of If's in there MFeld. I have bought hundreds of items on ebay and have only returned one because it was broke when I got it and it was also the wrong item (not a coin-- a light bulb). Yes, if it is my fault, I eat it, weather you believe it or not. I still have an unopened box that I got from an auction a year ago that I misbid on. (A tube for an old radio)
I cannot judge the seller without seeing his point of view. I do blame the seller for withholding $400 that certainly is wrong, but not from blocking the buyer. The OP does not state this loss in the Opening post.
eBay adds to the problem by not allowing email contact after banning. Sometimes you can work something out after the fact, but not without communication.
I included “allegedly” because I don’t know all of the facts. I also read all of the posts, before posting what I did and one from the OP said: “I guess Its me. Money must be really tight right now if coin dealers hv to shaft customers to make money. I mean its only $400, but come on. I guess that’s standard practice now”.
It’s sounds as if you’d read it, before posting what you did about not blaming the seller, your reply would have been different. If so, that’s good.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'd question the practice of publicly embarrassing a company which as far as I know is against the rules on this forum. Since ebay enforces full refunds I don't see why the buyer is not working through them. There are many raw coin sellers on ebay, one of the few places where sellers can do that on an auction or buy it now basis. Also the limit to listing raw coins is $2499 on ebay, over that the coins have to be certified.
@bp777 said:
I guess Its me. Money must be really tight right now if coin dealers hv to shaft customers to make money. I mean its only $400, but come on. I guess that’s standard practice now.
Nobody has posted here that they think it's okay to not give you a full refund. It's hardly "standard practice".
@bp777 said:
I guess I’m too nice and too mature. All I wanted to do was warn people. This is new to me and has never happened to me before. And this thread is getting out of hand. But that’s not bad. Everybody should be entitled to their own opinion. I’m just shocked that full grown adults encourage blocking people. Honestly, that never crossed my mind. I can see why people block trolls. But blocking somebody that returns an item to somebody that initially said returns are welcome is ,to me, insane. But apparently not. Hopefully newbies see this thread and learn something.
This thread hardly shows your maturity. I eat my mistakes. I would have simply sold it on eBay, perhaps lost a few bucks, but would have kept my relationship with the seller. It takes time and work to photo and list and auction items and have to redo it when someone returns something for wishy washy reasons. i don't blame the seller.
I don't know about other states but in Pa. when the hammer goes down (or the auctioneer says sold), the high bidder is obligated to purchase the item. It is a legal contract. No returns unless agreed to by both parties (buyer and seller).
Auctions wins are not approval services.
You “don’t blame the seller”, even though he allegedly lied about the changed condition of the coin, failed to honor a return privilege and withheld $400 from the buyer? It sure doesn’t sound like you would have just “lost a few bucks” if, as a buyer, you’d eaten your mistake and “simply sold it on eBay”. The buyer’s behavior didn’t excuse the alleged actions of the seller, if true.
If, If, If. Lot of If's in there MFeld. I have bought hundreds of items on ebay and have only returned one because it was broke when I got it and it was also the wrong item (not a coin-- a light bulb). Yes, if it is my fault, I eat it, weather you believe it or not. I still have an unopened box that I got from an auction a year ago that I misbid on. (A tube for an old radio)
I cannot judge the seller without seeing his point of view. I do blame the seller for withholding $400 that certainly is wrong, but not from blocking the buyer. The OP does not state this loss in the Opening post.
eBay adds to the problem by not allowing email contact after banning. Sometimes you can work something out after the fact, but not without communication.
I included “allegedly” because I don’t know all of the facts. I also read all of the posts, before posting what I did and one from the OP said: “I guess Its me. Money must be really tight right now if coin dealers hv to shaft customers to make money. I mean its only $400, but come on. I guess that’s standard practice now”.
It’s sounds as if you’d read it, before posting what you did about not blaming the seller, your reply would have been different. If so, that’s good.
Your right, I missed that $400 post in my first response. I was referring to the banning. I admit to being old and sometimes missing stuff. The Op should have put it in the first post.
Cheers!
I occasionally sell coins on eBay and I have a 14 day return privilege and on rare occasions a seller will return a coin for various reasons. I’m not happy but I refund the buyer in a timely manner. I try to find out why the coin is being returned for my own education but why offer returns if you’re not going to honor them. Every business that sells products has to deal with returns and there’s nothing a seller can do to prevent them.
Over the last 25 years I’ve bought my fair share of coins on eBay. I think I have returned one coin because the coin was ugly and the picture didn’t accurately depict the coin. The seller refunded the money upon return of the coin and that was the end of the story.
I won’t buy a coin if the seller doesn’t provide returns even if that doesn’t mean much today.
The first thing I noticed about their listing when I searched them is that they use some kind of orange light that appears to be an attempt to hide what's on the coin. Those images just scream tainted...
I don't think I'd be swayed to buy a coin from them based on those images alone these days. I try to be far more discerning.
If the seller has a return policy, they honor it as written. Buyer is entitled to a full refund unless the return policy stated otherwise.
That said, this is also a terrible reason for a return, and while returns are allowed, that doesn’t mean you should. I’d block the buyer every time for doing this.
I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but did you contact them for an RA# (Return Authorization #)? If not, they may have dinged you for not following their "Return Policy" instructions. If you did and they sent you an RA#, then I would expect a full refund.
also if you just refund in the return process and end it right there. there is no reason you should have been charged shipping for a return in that instance, no matter how loopy a customer is. lol
If you try to sell me a fake, you pay ALL shipping or you get a negative review.
believe you me, if I sell you a fake, you're leaving a positive...
just like i've done with others recently! (and me buying as well)
@divecchia said:
I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but did you contact them for an RA# (Return Authorization #)? If not, they may have dinged you for not following their "Return Policy" instructions. If you did and they sent you an RA#, then I would expect a full refund.
They should still send a full refund even without the RA. Considering this seller has been discussed here before (and not in a positive way), it seems likely they must get some returns and it's odd that there is no negative feedback for sending partial refunds if this is a common practice.
@bp777 said:
So check this out. I know CCC doesn’t have many fans on this forum, but I figured i would give them a shot. I purchased a BU CC morgan and after it was shipped i found something else and decided that i was going to return the morgan. Once it was received i took the package out of the priority envelope and immediately shipped it back in a bubble envelope. The item was delivered yesterday (Monday) and CCC has only partially refunded me because CCC is saying that the package was opened and the morgan has oily fingerprints all over the surface. 😂. Like i said, the package that the coin was packaged in was never opened. And CCC has apparently blocked me because i cant even message them. I know its my fault, but thats just ridiculous. Buyer beware!
ok. i'll say this and i will strive to make it my last in this thread.
since situations like that (especially on ebay) CAN get out of control, another option you have (if you are going to send coins back for arbitrary reasons) is to consider selling the coin yourself even if you lose just a bit of money.
let me say why.
you can see first-hand how such a simple situation can get out of control unnecessarily (from both parties) and you really only have 2 choices, either build relationships or ruin them and over a paltry sum of money. sure you are others can claim ethics this or morals that but at the end of the day, what do you REALLY want.
no one gets through this life w/o eating a bit of crap. unless someone REALLY pushes my buttons and it will take more than once, i very rarely write someone off permanently. usually just give enough time to let the whole thing settle and move on.
i had someone block me many years ago because i used my account for someone that didn't have one at the time for ebay, whom had some rather deep pockets, and a coin was returned but i really misworded that i was buying it for someone else, not for myself to sell to them as i got nothing out of it but the seller made it seem like i was doing some approval service which i wasn't and they blocked me, permanently and probably lost on tens of thousands of dollars in business and not impossible to be more over a period of years, even though i explained the situation, clearly, simply and positively.
the person i was buying for really was new to buying from images and years ago (still today unfortunately) the image quality wasn't quite as good as today, so that played a factor, not that the seller cared.
@bp777 said:
So check this out. I know CCC doesn’t have many fans on this forum, but I figured i would give them a shot. I purchased a BU CC morgan and after it was shipped i found something else and decided that i was going to return the morgan. Once it was received i took the package out of the priority envelope and immediately shipped it back in a bubble envelope. The item was delivered yesterday (Monday) and CCC has only partially refunded me because CCC is saying that the package was opened and the morgan has oily fingerprints all over the surface. 😂. Like i said, the package that the coin was packaged in was never opened. And CCC has apparently blocked me because i cant even message them. I know its my fault, but thats just ridiculous. Buyer beware!
ok. i'll say this and i will strive to make it my last in this thread.
since situations like that (especially on ebay) CAN get out of control, another option you have (if you are going to send coins back for arbitrary reasons) is to consider selling the coin yourself even if you lose just a bit of money.
let me say why.
you can see first-hand how such a simple situation can get out of control unnecessarily (from both parties) and you really only have 2 choices, either build relationships or ruin them and over a paltry sum of money. sure you are others can claim ethics this or morals that but at the end of the day, what do you REALLY want.
no one gets through this life w/o eating a bit of crap. unless someone REALLY pushes my buttons and it will take more than once, i very rarely write someone off permanently. usually just give enough time to let the whole thing settle and move on.
i had someone block me many years ago because i used my account for someone that didn't have one at the time for ebay, whom had some rather deep pockets, and a coin was returned but i really misworded that i was buying it for someone else, not for myself to sell to them as i got nothing out of it but the seller made it seem like i was doing some approval service which i wasn't and they blocked me, permanently and probably lost on tens of thousands of dollars in business and not impossible to be more over a period of years, even though i explained the situation, clearly, simply and positively.
the person i was buying for really was new to buying from images and years ago (still today unfortunately) the image quality wasn't quite as good as today, so that played a factor, not that the seller cared.
everyone loses..
Funny you mention that because I was wondering whether to post this or not... It's sort of related but not completely in that I have taken a couple chances on GSC (yes even after reading posts here). First one I returned as cleaned (not shown. Second one I think was dipped but at least not scoured with sandpaper and it was inexpensive and neat piece (3 cent Nickel). The third was the 1908 barber I posted about recently.
Instead of just returning it I reached out to them and explained the situation and wondered if they might have something for exchange instead.
You know what they did? They apologized that I wasn't satisfied with my purchases and looked but didn't find anything comparable and told me to go ahead and return it, and if I have a question about a coin to just call them and they will get it in hand before purchase.
Yes they goose their pictures but I'm sure there is a few gems with all their sales... So long story short, a simple communication went a long way towards keeping them not pissed off at me for returning and gave me a potential way forward to potential future purchases.
But on that note it doesn't seem right that they only issued a partial refund and allegedly claimed that he got greasy fingerprints on a package he didn't open. I wonder if they got it mixed up? I had a case where I sent off some stuff for buyback to jmbullion and they came back and said one of the coins was a fake... I said check again it came from ogp. They checked and had confused someone else's coin with my account and gave me the credit for it.
As for the claim of standard practice? I haven't personally seen it happen before this incident but that doesn't mean it hasn't or doesn't happen.
@spyglassdesign said:
But on that note it doesn't seem right that they only issued a partial refund and allegedly claimed that he got greasy fingerprints on a package he didn't open. I wonder if they got it mixed up? I had a case where I sent off some stuff for buyback to jmbullion and they came back and said one of the coins was a fake... I said check again it came from ogp. They checked and had confused someone else's coin with my account and gave me the credit for it.
As for the claim of standard practice? I haven't personally seen it happen before this incident but that doesn't mean it hasn't or doesn't happen.
good anecdotal circumstances and shows we gotta give someone a couple chances to show whom they really are, especially when using dry, cold, etc text. now after a couple/few communications, we can usually get a feel where someone is at, at that particular time and if we desire to allow them in our circle then or ever.
on the other hand we have reality too. i watched a chess commentator "lex" interview another MIT staff/student and because of the epstein (sorry to mention it) situation with his involvement into so many elite circles and receiving funding from someone that ended up pretty much universally despised. (and how to handle people close to situations like that)- i just watched this interview early so it is on the mind and the lady talked about only people that make good/bad decisions and some people that give others a bit of room, which is good cause they will either do something good with it or hang themselves but to give the berth BUT sometimes, someone gets in that goes after the hens and ransacks the hen house. - we ought to be kind, patient and forgiving but never forget pragmatism. we live in a world where indescribable horrors take place, daily. but that can also put into perspective how fussy we can get over nearly meaningless situations (all things considered) that's all i'll say because the study of the human condition really is only barely applicable to this thread. it really is a minor situation blown up a bit too much. imo
(watching the emperor's club now and a good case-study on all i just mentioned) tragic
@spyglassdesign said:
But on that note it doesn't seem right that they only issued a partial refund and allegedly claimed that he got greasy fingerprints on a package he didn't open. I wonder if they got it mixed up? I had a case where I sent off some stuff for buyback to jmbullion and they came back and said one of the coins was a fake... I said check again it came from ogp. They checked and had confused someone else's coin with my account and gave me the credit for it.
As for the claim of standard practice? I haven't personally seen it happen before this incident but that doesn't mean it hasn't or doesn't happen.
good anecdotal circumstances and shows we gotta give someone a couple chances to show whom they really are, especially when using dry, cold, etc text. now after a couple/few communications, we can usually get a feel where someone is at, at that particular time and if we desire to allow them in our circle then or ever.
on the other hand we have reality too. i watched a chess commentator "lex" interview another MIT staff/student and because of the epstein (sorry to mention it) situation with his involvement into so many elite circles and receiving funding from someone that ended up pretty much universally despised. (and how to handle people close to situations like that)- i just watched this interview early so it is on the mind and the lady talked about only people that make good/bad decisions and some people that give others a bit of room, which is good cause they will either do something good with it or hang themselves but to give the berth BUT sometimes, someone gets in that goes after the hens and ransacks the hen house. - we ought to be kind, patient and forgiving but never forget pragmatism. we live in a world where indescribable horrors take place, daily. but that can also put into perspective how fussy we can get over nearly meaningless situations (all things considered) that's all i'll say because the study of the human condition really is only barely applicable to this thread. it really is a minor situation blown up a bit too much. imo
(watching the emperor's club now and a good case-study on all i just mentioned) tragic
I had someone leave me negative feedback with a comment that made no sense. I contacted him and he had confused my transaction with someone else. It happens. No one is perfect.
Very simple.
Between eBay ( and they do have a return policy) and CC security. There’s a return available and this conjecture is silly. Its there and you can get a refund. Period
As for OP. Refund but using eBay as an approval service is not right. Also, I changed my mind ain’t getting either. Refund but poor circumstances 😁
@bp777 said:
So check this out. I know CCC doesn’t have many fans on this forum, but I figured i would give them a shot. I purchased a BU CC morgan and after it was shipped i found something else and decided that i was going to return the morgan. Once it was received i took the package out of the priority envelope and immediately shipped it back in a bubble envelope. The item was delivered yesterday (Monday) and CCC has only partially refunded me because CCC is saying that the package was opened and the morgan has oily fingerprints all over the surface. 😂. Like i said, the package that the coin was packaged in was never opened. And CCC has apparently blocked me because i cant even message them. I know its my fault, but thats just ridiculous. Buyer beware!
ok. i'll say this and i will strive to make it my last in this thread.
since situations like that (especially on ebay) CAN get out of control, another option you have (if you are going to send coins back for arbitrary reasons) is to consider selling the coin yourself even if you lose just a bit of money.
let me say why.
you can see first-hand how such a simple situation can get out of control unnecessarily (from both parties) and you really only have 2 choices, either build relationships or ruin them and over a paltry sum of money. sure you are others can claim ethics this or morals that but at the end of the day, what do you REALLY want.
no one gets through this life w/o eating a bit of crap. unless someone REALLY pushes my buttons and it will take more than once, i very rarely write someone off permanently. usually just give enough time to let the whole thing settle and move on.
i had someone block me many years ago because i used my account for someone that didn't have one at the time for ebay, whom had some rather deep pockets, and a coin was returned but i really misworded that i was buying it for someone else, not for myself to sell to them as i got nothing out of it but the seller made it seem like i was doing some approval service which i wasn't and they blocked me, permanently and probably lost on tens of thousands of dollars in business and not impossible to be more over a period of years, even though i explained the situation, clearly, simply and positively.
the person i was buying for really was new to buying from images and years ago (still today unfortunately) the image quality wasn't quite as good as today, so that played a factor, not that the seller cared.
everyone loses..
Funny you mention that because I was wondering whether to post this or not... It's sort of related but not completely in that I have taken a couple chances on GSC (yes even after reading posts here). First one I returned as cleaned (not shown. Second one I think was dipped but at least not scoured with sandpaper and it was inexpensive and neat piece (3 cent Nickel). The third was the 1908 barber I posted about recently.
Instead of just returning it I reached out to them and explained the situation and wondered if they might have something for exchange instead.
You know what they did? They apologized that I wasn't satisfied with my purchases and looked but didn't find anything comparable and told me to go ahead and return it, and if I have a question about a coin to just call them and they will get it in hand before purchase.
Yes they goose their pictures but I'm sure there is a few gems with all their sales... So long story short, a simple communication went a long way towards keeping them not pissed off at me for returning and gave me a potential way forward to potential future purchases.
Win-win in my book.
There's a difference in this case. To start with, I don't know the seller the OP references, so I can't speak to similarities they may have. GSC, however, has remarkably good feedback for the quality of coins they sell and the images they take of them. There's a lot of money to be made when you can turn something unimpressive into a gem when reselling. I think it's in their business plan to be overly customer friendly to ensure no poor feedback is left which may call into question their tactics to unsuspecting buyers. They are on thinner ice than many other sellers, and they face much greater repercussions for not going above and beyond (even in a situation where it otherwise wouldn't be warranted). As such, what you describe as great customer service, I describe as a necessity for their business model.
Now, to be fair, except in the most egregious cases, even when I know the buyer is flat-out wrong, I'll still apologize if they claim I made a mistake. Granted, on the other side, I'm also calling eBay to be on the record that I said to the buyer what I did only to mollify them, but the buyer doesn't know that. One luxury eBay doesn't provide is the ability for a seller to be right. I deal with buyers who most certainly don't deserve the benefits they receive, but playing in eBay's sandbox, I have no choice but to comply. A swift block comes right after. To be clear, of course, the vast majority of buyers are no problem at all. It's those select few who take up so much time and effort.
@bp777 said:
So check this out. I know CCC doesn’t have many fans on this forum, but I figured i would give them a shot. I purchased a BU CC morgan and after it was shipped i found something else and decided that i was going to return the morgan. Once it was received i took the package out of the priority envelope and immediately shipped it back in a bubble envelope. The item was delivered yesterday (Monday) and CCC has only partially refunded me because CCC is saying that the package was opened and the morgan has oily fingerprints all over the surface. 😂. Like i said, the package that the coin was packaged in was never opened. And CCC has apparently blocked me because i cant even message them. I know its my fault, but thats just ridiculous. Buyer beware!
ok. i'll say this and i will strive to make it my last in this thread.
since situations like that (especially on ebay) CAN get out of control, another option you have (if you are going to send coins back for arbitrary reasons) is to consider selling the coin yourself even if you lose just a bit of money.
let me say why.
you can see first-hand how such a simple situation can get out of control unnecessarily (from both parties) and you really only have 2 choices, either build relationships or ruin them and over a paltry sum of money. sure you are others can claim ethics this or morals that but at the end of the day, what do you REALLY want.
no one gets through this life w/o eating a bit of crap. unless someone REALLY pushes my buttons and it will take more than once, i very rarely write someone off permanently. usually just give enough time to let the whole thing settle and move on.
i had someone block me many years ago because i used my account for someone that didn't have one at the time for ebay, whom had some rather deep pockets, and a coin was returned but i really misworded that i was buying it for someone else, not for myself to sell to them as i got nothing out of it but the seller made it seem like i was doing some approval service which i wasn't and they blocked me, permanently and probably lost on tens of thousands of dollars in business and not impossible to be more over a period of years, even though i explained the situation, clearly, simply and positively.
the person i was buying for really was new to buying from images and years ago (still today unfortunately) the image quality wasn't quite as good as today, so that played a factor, not that the seller cared.
everyone loses..
Funny you mention that because I was wondering whether to post this or not... It's sort of related but not completely in that I have taken a couple chances on GSC (yes even after reading posts here). First one I returned as cleaned (not shown. Second one I think was dipped but at least not scoured with sandpaper and it was inexpensive and neat piece (3 cent Nickel). The third was the 1908 barber I posted about recently.
Instead of just returning it I reached out to them and explained the situation and wondered if they might have something for exchange instead.
You know what they did? They apologized that I wasn't satisfied with my purchases and looked but didn't find anything comparable and told me to go ahead and return it, and if I have a question about a coin to just call them and they will get it in hand before purchase.
Yes they goose their pictures but I'm sure there is a few gems with all their sales... So long story short, a simple communication went a long way towards keeping them not pissed off at me for returning and gave me a potential way forward to potential future purchases.
Win-win in my book.
There's a difference in this case. To start with, I don't know the seller the OP references, so I can't speak to similarities they may have. GSC, however, has remarkably good feedback for the quality of coins they sell and the images they take of them. There's a lot of money to be made when you can turn something unimpressive into a gem when reselling. I think it's in their business plan to be overly customer friendly to ensure no poor feedback is left which may call into question their tactics to unsuspecting buyers. They are on thinner ice than many other sellers, and they face much greater repercussions for not going above and beyond (even in a situation where it otherwise wouldn't be warranted). As such, what you describe as great customer service, I describe as a necessity for their business model.
Now, to be fair, except in the most egregious cases, even when I know the buyer is flat-out wrong, I'll still apologize if they claim I made a mistake. Granted, on the other side, I'm also calling eBay to be on the record that I said to the buyer what I did only to mollify them, but the buyer doesn't know that. One luxury eBay doesn't provide is the ability for a seller to be right. I deal with buyers who most certainly don't deserve the benefits they receive, but playing in eBay's sandbox, I have no choice but to comply. A swift block comes right after. To be clear, of course, the vast majority of buyers are no problem at all. It's those select few who take up so much time and effort.
Agree 99.9% of buyers are marvelous. That's why it is easy and advantageous to simply block the problem buyers.
There are good reasons to return something, (A) it is damaged, it is not what you ordered, photos do not show flaws that weren't mentioned. I'm sure their may be one or two others, but that is pretty much it.
Returns are not (B) because you overspent, your wife got mad at you, you decided you like something else, you no longer like what you ordered, or you now have been informed you paid too much.
Anyone that feels (B) is an acceptable way to act, let me know your ebay id and I will increase my block list.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
@divecchia said:
I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but did you contact them for an RA# (Return Authorization #)? If not, they may have dinged you for not following their "Return Policy" instructions. If you did and they sent you an RA#, then I would expect a full refund.
Donato
The "RA" number is not required by ebay, nor should the buyer have to jump through those hoops.
@divecchia said:
I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but did you contact them for an RA# (Return Authorization #)? If not, they may have dinged you for not following their "Return Policy" instructions. If you did and they sent you an RA#, then I would expect a full refund.
Donato
The "RA" number is not required by ebay, nor should the buyer have to jump through those hoops.
I half agree. A buyer should have to obey the terms under which a purchase was made.
@jesbroken said:
There are good reasons to return something, (A) it is damaged, it is not what you ordered, photos do not show flaws that weren't mentioned. I'm sure their may be one or two others, but that is pretty much it.
Returns are not (B) because you overspent, your wife got mad at you, you decided you like something else, you no longer like what you ordered, or you now have been informed you paid too much.
Anyone that feels (B) is an acceptable way to act, let me know your ebay id and I will increase my block list.
Jim
This.
Too many people think that ebay is an approval service, or Walmart, or Amazon where you can buy 20 things and return 19, or all 20 for that matter. Some will, for instance, sport bid on multiple identical items, win them, and then cancel on all but the lowest... or more often simply bid, win, get the item, shop it around to see if they can flip it for a profit, or try to slab it at a higher grade if there's a big upshot in the next grade, or simply see if someone else has it cheaper, and then try to file a Not As Described claim and return it ... and the seller is supposed to just happily eat the return. I've done eBay since 1998 and I've seen it all and heard all the excuses... Back in the earlier days when you could still see user email addresses etc. we had one guy who bought a rare vintage Custer-related photograph for a 4-digit amount and then renege because "sorry, I no longer have the money available to buy it". Two days later he was bidding on some rare Indian artifacts using a freshly changed user ID (but forgot I could still see his email address-Ha!). Not only did I block him but messaged the other seller about what he did. He said he didn't need problems and told us he'd block him too. We have a ton of eBay stories.
Our eBay auction policy is simple...First off, all items are guaranteed genuine and will be instantly refunded including return shipping if proven otherwise. ("Proven" means deemed as such by a TPG or major numismatic professional that we know and with whom we can verify, and not by your third cousin with a Redbook or some show dealer who wants to sell you his/her piece instead.) Other than that- refunds (for the winning bid amount only, because we usually do free shipping) will be given only if the item has been grossly misrepresented (i.e. we described the wrong item, posted pictures of the wrong item, shipped the wrong item, or the item has major flaws not shown in the images or not mentioned in the description)... and only if it is returned in the same condition and unopened holder as sent. Otherwise it is considered an as-is sale, just like it is with every other auction in the world. We don't give refunds for buyer's remorse. We've made a few situational exceptions but not many. Also, if we do allow a return, since we usually do free shipping on all our items, you get to pay for return shipping (except for authenticity returns as mentioned above). That money goes to the PO, not us. I look on return shipping charges like putting gas in your car. It's the price you pay for driving our merch around. And thankfully given all the thousands of transactions we've done we really haven't had all that many issues. Most people get it.
In OP's case, if it were me I'd just keep the item... but that said, the seller does clearly state a 30 day full refund return privilege...so assuming you followed the instructions regarding the RA number etc. you should get a full refund.
@Connecticoin said:
The "RA" number is not required by ebay, nor should the buyer have to jump through those hoops.
I half agree. A buyer should have to obey the terms under which a purchase was made.
It's not rocket science. If you don't like the terms and aren't willing to abide by them, don't buy from that seller and a lot of the problems that get posted about here would go away. I don't know why this is so hard to figure out.
@Connecticoin said:
The "RA" number is not required by ebay, nor should the buyer have to jump through those hoops.
I half agree. A buyer should have to obey the terms under which a purchase was made.
It's not rocket science. If you don't like the terms and aren't willing to abide by them, don't buy from that seller and a lot of the problems that get posted about here would go away. I don't know why this is so hard to figure out.
i agree.
it is good to discuss this stuff from time to time, as are most things though even though at this point pretty much everything has been covered here. YAY.
i have a no-questions-asked return policy on all my accounts but depending on the item (mostly non-coins) i will usually ask to see if the buyer just missed something or isn't using something properly or just requires a bit of assistance (or i made a mistake) but unless it is something annoying like they didn't read the title, look at the pics or my very short descriptions, it goes well.
BUT my quality of life means more to me that most of the stuff i sell so if something is below a certain threshold or it is just too expensive to do back n forth and try to sell again where i pay shipping, i'll just refund and more on. don't remember anyone trying to abuse the system with me so it all works out.
most people doing a good job (as others have stated) will not have many or any returns so a straggler here n there is NOT worth getting worked up over for ANY reason. we will NOT achieve perfection in any aspect of this life, period.
@PhilLynott said:
I would give a full refund but not gonna lie I'd block you too afterwards.
Then why accept refunds. I’ve been selling on ebay since 2013 or 14. Ive had many items returned. I never blocked anybody.
I accept refunds because I really have no choice. But I'm not running an approval service. If there is a legitimate reason for the return, I wouldn't block you. But if you just changed your mind, I'm not giving you a chance to change your mind again.
I had someone return $1.69 stamp (free shipping) because "I forgot I already had one". I refunded their money and begged them to just keep the stamp. Nope. They sent it back, so I'm out round trip postage on a $1.69 item because they "forgot they had one". I'm not taking a chance on a repeat.
there is a way to stop automatic labels from being able to be issued from the customer end or if the ebay system tries also. it is a method that drop-shippers use because the system returns the item to the seller and not the shipper who is the actual owner of said product(s).
also if you just refund in the return process and end it right there. there is no reason you should have been charged shipping for a return in that instance, no matter how loopy a customer is. lol
You're kidding yourself.
Let me tell you this week's story.
Back on May 1st, I sold a Chinese Kilo for $1899.
On June 28th, the customer contacted me. He said he knew it was past the 30 day return window but could he return it because it was "a small kilo". [I still find that funny. ] In an attempt to dissuade him, I said sure but I would like a 10% restocking fee because of postage, fees, etc. He said, "$189? I think I'll pass. "
That was the last I heard of it until yesterday when ebay put an $1899 hold on my account because he had filed a credit card charge back because "the item was not as described, ". [Note that the item is in an NGC slab and also has the original Chinese Mint COA.]
So, you can pretend you don't take returns. You can pretend you only have 14 day or 30 day return windows. But some credit cards allow 18 months for charge backs. So, if you think you don't accept returns, then think again.
I do have an update, I contacted the charge back individual - I had to "unblock" them, LOL - and mentioned other avenues. They allegedly shipped the item back to me yesterday. I'm not happy about that because the charge back is still in effect and that puts the damn thing back in my hands. He's now saying it was damaged in shipping. I said, "why did you not mention this 4 months ago when we could have filed an insurance claim?"
Apparently CCC has had many complaints and has been accused of many shady business dealings. Whatever. They have many great coins. But beware! If you make them mad, theyll block you. First time i ever returned an item and it will also be the last.
@PhilLynott said:
I would give a full refund but not gonna lie I'd block you too afterwards.
Then why accept refunds. I’ve been selling on ebay since 2013 or 14. Ive had many items returned. I never blocked anybody.
I accept refunds because I really have no choice. But I'm not running an approval service. If there is a legitimate reason for the return, I wouldn't block you. But if you just changed your mind, I'm not giving you a chance to change your mind again.
I had someone return $1.69 stamp (free shipping) because "I forgot I already had one". I refunded their money and begged them to just keep the stamp. Nope. They sent it back, so I'm out round trip postage on a $1.69 item because they "forgot they had one". I'm not taking a chance on a repeat.
there is a way to stop automatic labels from being able to be issued from the customer end or if the ebay system tries also. it is a method that drop-shippers use because the system returns the item to the seller and not the shipper who is the actual owner of said product(s).
also if you just refund in the return process and end it right there. there is no reason you should have been charged shipping for a return in that instance, no matter how loopy a customer is. lol
You're kidding yourself.
Let me tell you this week's story.
Back on May 1st, I sold a Chinese Kilo for $1899.
On June 28th, the customer contacted me. He said he knew it was past the 30 day return window but could he return it because it was "a small kilo". [I still find that funny. ] In an attempt to dissuade him, I said sure but I would like a 10% restocking fee because of postage, fees, etc. He said, "$189? I think I'll pass. "
That was the last I heard of it until yesterday when ebay put an $1899 hold on my account because he had filed a credit card charge back because "the item was not as described, ". [Note that the item is in an NGC slab and also has the original Chinese Mint COA.]
So, you can pretend you don't take returns. You can pretend you only have 14 day or 30 day return windows. But some credit cards allow 18 months for charge backs. So, if you think you don't accept returns, then think again.
I do have an update, I contacted the charge back individual - I had to "unblock" them, LOL - and mentioned other avenues. They allegedly shipped the item back to me yesterday. I'm not happy about that because the charge back is still in effect and that puts the damn thing back in my hands. He's now saying it was damaged in shipping. I said, "why did you not mention this 4 months ago when we could have filed an insurance claim?"
yes and tyvm.
i KINDA have something like this happening and wanted to post here since this is where a similar thing was discussed.
i shipped item X valued at $65 and it was shipped sept 18th and delivered the 21st. easy peasy.
SO today oct 20 around a month later ebay sends a message about : Payment dispute filed! - i have a 2 week return policy still as i think for most items anything outside that is madness but since this item WAS stated as delivered that is moot here.
This is ebay's first response to me in this particular case:
.
.
so posting this is for posterity. no one being right, wrong or otherwise. just what happened in this set of circumstances and how ebay handled it vs the payment dispute institution.
i CANNOT claim that the customer DIDN'T have a stolen identity, account, credit card, check or whatever as i am sure there are people buying goods on others accounts/identities so we can only know SO much about the specifics here and why the chargeback was files with NOOOOOOOO communication from the buyer to me for whatever reason(s). not a surprise.
so in the event the item was just stolen off their porch and they were legit just being patient and waiting for the item to show, knowing these days things are still quite frazzled with the system, i applaud their patience but still don't understand NOT even a basic communication.
lets say ALL things being equaled, this came about BUT the item didn't show as delivered, i would tell the customer that with the shipping service and level i use, it comes with either $50 or $100 insurance, so contacting sellers is ALMOST always the way to go even if to give them a chance to show how unreasonable they are, so you can say at least you tried. ya know?
Apparently CCC has had many complaints and has been accused of many shady business dealings. Whatever. They have many great coins. But beware! If you make them mad, theyll block you. First time i ever returned an item and it will also be the last.
Good for you; you complied with the refund procedure and are entitled to a full refund.
Since CCC has 100% feedback, with 0 negs in their then of thousands of sales, they MUST have had a good return policy over the years.
Buyers like the OP are the reason I no longer give free shipping, since I want potential buyers to have a little more skin in the game than the return postage fee. I would automatically block the OP, since he is not the kind of buyer I with which I choose to deal. Nothing personal, just good business.
Apparently CCC has had many complaints and has been accused of many shady business dealings. Whatever. They have many great coins. But beware! If you make them mad, theyll block you. First time i ever returned an item and it will also be the last.
Good for you; you complied with the refund procedure and are entitled to a full refund.
Since CCC has 100% feedback, with 0 negs in their then of thousands of sales, they MUST have had a good return policy over the years.
Buyers like the OP are the reason I no longer give free shipping, since I want potential buyers to have a little more skin in the game than the return postage fee. I would automatically block the OP, since he is not the kind of buyer I with which I choose to deal. Nothing personal, just good business.
It makes no difference whether it is "free shipping" or "cost + shipping". If they file a SNAD with eBay, they will be refunded both as well as making you pay the return shipping.
In fact, arguably, charging them shipping actually encourages SNAD and chargebacks rather than straight returns. A SNAD basically is a straight return, but a charge back could take 3 months or more to resolve.
@spyglassdesign said:
The first thing I noticed about their listing when I searched them is that they use some kind of orange light that appears to be an attempt to hide what's on the coin. Those images just scream tainted...
Are you referring to a specific listing of theirs? I've seen many hundreds of their listings and have never noticed any sort of "orange light" effect. Heightened contrast, definitely. I've also bought several of their coins and I expect they won't look quite as good as the pics, for better or worse.
I just wish I knew where and how they source tens of thousands of near-perfect vintage silver coins.
I took a small break from reading "War and Peace" to read this thread. It's good to hear that the buyer (consider-er) got his refund; however, I come from the old school of retail sales where "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" applies, and if I didn't think I could ban a problem customer from my retail establishment I'd really not enjoy my occupation nearly as much.
@spyglassdesign said:
The first thing I noticed about their listing when I searched them is that they use some kind of orange light that appears to be an attempt to hide what's on the coin. Those images just scream tainted...
Are you referring to a specific listing of theirs? I've seen many hundreds of their listings and have never noticed any sort of "orange light" effect. Heightened contrast, definitely. I've also bought several of their coins and I expect they won't look quite as good as the pics, for better or worse.
I just wish I knew where and how they source tens of thousands of near-perfect vintage silver coins.
It is an orangish band from a light source (or possibly reflection I guess), but it appears to be a method of hiding some defects since you can't really see those surface areas well. I could be wrong but I've seen and been duped by enough of these guys to realize what they are likely doing.
@jedm said:
I took a small break from reading "War and Peace" to read this thread. It's good to hear that the buyer (consider-er) got his refund; however, I come from the old school of retail sales where "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" applies, and if I didn't think I could ban a problem customer from my retail establishment I'd really not enjoy my occupation nearly as much.
that's usually what it boils own to. the customer is always right vs we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason (except race, disability etc)
I had a buyer recently return a coin because he "found a better price" If you don't like the price don't buy it. He returned the coin. I refunded his money and YES I blocked him.
@GRANDAM said:
I had a buyer recently return a coin because he "found a better price" If you don't like the price don't buy it. He returned the coin. I refunded his money and YES I blocked him.
I would block for that too... There's not a lot else I would but that's a blatant abuse. Price guarantees are not a thing on ebay.
@GRANDAM said:
I had a buyer recently return a coin because he "found a better price" If you don't like the price don't buy it. He returned the coin. I refunded his money and YES I blocked him.
about a month later after the ebay notification, still no movement. so 2 months after package shows as delivered. for those that haven't read my situation (in another person's thread), ebay stated since shows delivered, i have no exposure here but if the buyer didn't really receive the item, i do feel for them but when something shows delivered and the crazy world we live in, it is tough to trust the words/actions of others in situations like this. if it were a transaction with someone i've done many with previously and/or i KNEW I could trust the buyer, i'd consider a 50/50 split refund because i do like the idea of splitting the pain. (and doubling the joy )
the weird thing now i think about it, i don't recall anyone, ever, requesting signature delivery on items granted $65 isn't a great deal of money but to be fair i STILL read about people saying that signature required deliveries are not getting signatures, still. (there is a postal option, along with ups and MAYBE fedex, to forego signature and authorizing the institution to be the signee) so it may behoove some of you to see if you did file/agree to such an option and perhaps forgot? i think i've done it with usps and ups.
just for the sake of closure. about 2 months for them to get it sorted out, although from the beginning, since the item showed delivered, ebay stated that i was covered. i do feel for the buyer if the item for whatever reason, didn't show up.
Comments
This thread hardly shows your maturity. I eat my mistakes. I would have simply sold it on eBay, perhaps lost a few bucks, but would have kept my relationship with the seller. It takes time and work to photo and list and auction items and have to redo it when someone returns something for wishy washy reasons. i don't blame the seller.
I don't know about other states but in Pa. when the hammer goes down (or the auctioneer says sold), the high bidder is obligated to purchase the item. It is a legal contract. No returns unless agreed to by both parties (buyer and seller).
Auctions wins are not approval services.
If you try to sell me a fake, you pay ALL shipping or you get a negative review.
The worst thing about relisting is the level of suspicion increases dramatically. This tends to be a downward force on prices.
Well they shouldn't be, but eBay is changing that, and CC companies are making it even worse.
You “don’t blame the seller”, even though he allegedly lied about the changed condition of the coin, failed to honor a return privilege and withheld $400 from the buyer? It sure doesn’t sound like you would have just “lost a few bucks” if, as a buyer, you’d eaten your mistake and “simply sold it on eBay”. The buyer’s behavior didn’t excuse the alleged actions of the seller, if true.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If, If, If. Lot of If's in there MFeld. I have bought hundreds of items on ebay and have only returned one because it was broke when I got it and it was also the wrong item (not a coin-- a light bulb). Yes, if it is my fault, I eat it, weather you believe it or not. I still have an unopened box that I got from an auction a year ago that I misbid on. (A tube for an old radio)
I cannot judge the seller without seeing his point of view. I do blame the seller for withholding $400 that certainly is wrong, but not from blocking the buyer. The OP does not state this loss in the Opening post.
eBay adds to the problem by not allowing email contact after banning. Sometimes you can work something out after the fact, but not without communication.
My biggest issue with CCC is that almost all of the coins I’ve purchase that were described BU GEM coveted “Pristine designation” ended up being cleaned. I even submitted a few of them to PCGS I thought looked okay and they came back cleaned (all but one and the one was MS63 - technically not GEM). From my experience (having bought at least 6 to 8 of their coins over last few years) I have to believe that the raw coins sold by CCC are still raw because they will not straight grade. The ones that will grade they have graded, and then sell them for way over greysheets pricing. Some of their raw coins they are selling now were probably submitted in the past as a “do not holder details” and then sold raw as a “BU GEM” coin to unsuspecting buyers. Although I have done some business with them in the past, I will not in the future. In my opinion those raw coins they sell are mostly details cleaned coins and they know it. Just my opinion from experience.
I included “allegedly” because I don’t know all of the facts. I also read all of the posts, before posting what I did and one from the OP said: “I guess Its me. Money must be really tight right now if coin dealers hv to shaft customers to make money. I mean its only $400, but come on. I guess that’s standard practice now”.
It’s sounds as if you’d read it, before posting what you did about not blaming the seller, your reply would have been different. If so, that’s good.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'd question the practice of publicly embarrassing a company which as far as I know is against the rules on this forum. Since ebay enforces full refunds I don't see why the buyer is not working through them. There are many raw coin sellers on ebay, one of the few places where sellers can do that on an auction or buy it now basis. Also the limit to listing raw coins is $2499 on ebay, over that the coins have to be certified.
To voice my displeasure, of course.
Nobody has posted here that they think it's okay to not give you a full refund. It's hardly "standard practice".
Your right, I missed that $400 post in my first response. I was referring to the banning. I admit to being old and sometimes missing stuff. The Op should have put it in the first post.
Cheers!
I occasionally sell coins on eBay and I have a 14 day return privilege and on rare occasions a seller will return a coin for various reasons. I’m not happy but I refund the buyer in a timely manner. I try to find out why the coin is being returned for my own education but why offer returns if you’re not going to honor them. Every business that sells products has to deal with returns and there’s nothing a seller can do to prevent them.
Over the last 25 years I’ve bought my fair share of coins on eBay. I think I have returned one coin because the coin was ugly and the picture didn’t accurately depict the coin. The seller refunded the money upon return of the coin and that was the end of the story.
I won’t buy a coin if the seller doesn’t provide returns even if that doesn’t mean much today.
The first thing I noticed about their listing when I searched them is that they use some kind of orange light that appears to be an attempt to hide what's on the coin. Those images just scream tainted...
I don't think I'd be swayed to buy a coin from them based on those images alone these days. I try to be far more discerning.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
This is easy.
If the seller has a return policy, they honor it as written. Buyer is entitled to a full refund unless the return policy stated otherwise.
That said, this is also a terrible reason for a return, and while returns are allowed, that doesn’t mean you should. I’d block the buyer every time for doing this.
I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but did you contact them for an RA# (Return Authorization #)? If not, they may have dinged you for not following their "Return Policy" instructions. If you did and they sent you an RA#, then I would expect a full refund.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
believe you me, if I sell you a fake, you're leaving a positive...
just like i've done with others recently!
(and me buying as well)
They should still send a full refund even without the RA. Considering this seller has been discussed here before (and not in a positive way), it seems likely they must get some returns and it's odd that there is no negative feedback for sending partial refunds if this is a common practice.
ok. i'll say this and i will strive to make it my last in this thread.
since situations like that (especially on ebay) CAN get out of control, another option you have (if you are going to send coins back for arbitrary reasons) is to consider selling the coin yourself even if you lose just a bit of money.
let me say why.
you can see first-hand how such a simple situation can get out of control unnecessarily (from both parties) and you really only have 2 choices, either build relationships or ruin them and over a paltry sum of money. sure you are others can claim ethics this or morals that but at the end of the day, what do you REALLY want.
no one gets through this life w/o eating a bit of crap. unless someone REALLY pushes my buttons and it will take more than once, i very rarely write someone off permanently. usually just give enough time to let the whole thing settle and move on.
i had someone block me many years ago because i used my account for someone that didn't have one at the time for ebay, whom had some rather deep pockets, and a coin was returned but i really misworded that i was buying it for someone else, not for myself to sell to them as i got nothing out of it but the seller made it seem like i was doing some approval service which i wasn't and they blocked me, permanently and probably lost on tens of thousands of dollars in business and not impossible to be more over a period of years, even though i explained the situation, clearly, simply and positively.
the person i was buying for really was new to buying from images and years ago (still today unfortunately) the image quality wasn't quite as good as today, so that played a factor, not that the seller cared.
everyone loses..
Funny you mention that because I was wondering whether to post this or not... It's sort of related but not completely in that I have taken a couple chances on GSC (yes even after reading posts here). First one I returned as cleaned (not shown. Second one I think was dipped but at least not scoured with sandpaper and it was inexpensive and neat piece (3 cent Nickel). The third was the 1908 barber I posted about recently.
Instead of just returning it I reached out to them and explained the situation and wondered if they might have something for exchange instead.
You know what they did? They apologized that I wasn't satisfied with my purchases and looked but didn't find anything comparable and told me to go ahead and return it, and if I have a question about a coin to just call them and they will get it in hand before purchase.
Yes they goose their pictures but I'm sure there is a few gems with all their sales... So long story short, a simple communication went a long way towards keeping them not pissed off at me for returning and gave me a potential way forward to potential future purchases.
Win-win in my book.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
But on that note it doesn't seem right that they only issued a partial refund and allegedly claimed that he got greasy fingerprints on a package he didn't open. I wonder if they got it mixed up? I had a case where I sent off some stuff for buyback to jmbullion and they came back and said one of the coins was a fake... I said check again it came from ogp. They checked and had confused someone else's coin with my account and gave me the credit for it.
As for the claim of standard practice? I haven't personally seen it happen before this incident but that doesn't mean it hasn't or doesn't happen.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
good anecdotal circumstances and shows we gotta give someone a couple chances to show whom they really are, especially when using dry, cold, etc text. now after a couple/few communications, we can usually get a feel where someone is at, at that particular time and if we desire to allow them in our circle then or ever.
on the other hand we have reality too. i watched a chess commentator "lex" interview another MIT staff/student and because of the epstein (sorry to mention it) situation with his involvement into so many elite circles and receiving funding from someone that ended up pretty much universally despised. (and how to handle people close to situations like that)- i just watched this interview early so it is on the mind and the lady talked about only people that make good/bad decisions and some people that give others a bit of room, which is good cause they will either do something good with it or hang themselves but to give the berth BUT sometimes, someone gets in that goes after the hens and ransacks the hen house. - we ought to be kind, patient and forgiving but never forget pragmatism. we live in a world where indescribable horrors take place, daily. but that can also put into perspective how fussy we can get over nearly meaningless situations (all things considered) that's all i'll say because the study of the human condition really is only barely applicable to this thread. it really is a minor situation blown up a bit too much. imo
(watching the emperor's club now and a good case-study on all i just mentioned) tragic
I had someone leave me negative feedback with a comment that made no sense. I contacted him and he had confused my transaction with someone else. It happens. No one is perfect.
Great irony in that first sentence...
Smitten with DBLCs.
I definitely don't understand it.
Very simple.
Between eBay ( and they do have a return policy) and CC security. There’s a return available and this conjecture is silly. Its there and you can get a refund. Period
As for OP. Refund but using eBay as an approval service is not right. Also, I changed my mind ain’t getting either. Refund but poor circumstances 😁
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
There's a difference in this case. To start with, I don't know the seller the OP references, so I can't speak to similarities they may have. GSC, however, has remarkably good feedback for the quality of coins they sell and the images they take of them. There's a lot of money to be made when you can turn something unimpressive into a gem when reselling. I think it's in their business plan to be overly customer friendly to ensure no poor feedback is left which may call into question their tactics to unsuspecting buyers. They are on thinner ice than many other sellers, and they face much greater repercussions for not going above and beyond (even in a situation where it otherwise wouldn't be warranted). As such, what you describe as great customer service, I describe as a necessity for their business model.
Now, to be fair, except in the most egregious cases, even when I know the buyer is flat-out wrong, I'll still apologize if they claim I made a mistake. Granted, on the other side, I'm also calling eBay to be on the record that I said to the buyer what I did only to mollify them, but the buyer doesn't know that. One luxury eBay doesn't provide is the ability for a seller to be right. I deal with buyers who most certainly don't deserve the benefits they receive, but playing in eBay's sandbox, I have no choice but to comply. A swift block comes right after. To be clear, of course, the vast majority of buyers are no problem at all. It's those select few who take up so much time and effort.
Agree 99.9% of buyers are marvelous. That's why it is easy and advantageous to simply block the problem buyers.
because they have nothing else to do!!
There are good reasons to return something, (A) it is damaged, it is not what you ordered, photos do not show flaws that weren't mentioned. I'm sure their may be one or two others, but that is pretty much it.
Returns are not (B) because you overspent, your wife got mad at you, you decided you like something else, you no longer like what you ordered, or you now have been informed you paid too much.
Anyone that feels (B) is an acceptable way to act, let me know your ebay id and I will increase my block list.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
The "RA" number is not required by ebay, nor should the buyer have to jump through those hoops.
I half agree. A buyer should have to obey the terms under which a purchase was made.
This.
Too many people think that ebay is an approval service, or Walmart, or Amazon where you can buy 20 things and return 19, or all 20 for that matter. Some will, for instance, sport bid on multiple identical items, win them, and then cancel on all but the lowest... or more often simply bid, win, get the item, shop it around to see if they can flip it for a profit, or try to slab it at a higher grade if there's a big upshot in the next grade, or simply see if someone else has it cheaper, and then try to file a Not As Described claim and return it ... and the seller is supposed to just happily eat the return. I've done eBay since 1998 and I've seen it all and heard all the excuses... Back in the earlier days when you could still see user email addresses etc. we had one guy who bought a rare vintage Custer-related photograph for a 4-digit amount and then renege because "sorry, I no longer have the money available to buy it". Two days later he was bidding on some rare Indian artifacts using a freshly changed user ID (but forgot I could still see his email address-Ha!). Not only did I block him but messaged the other seller about what he did. He said he didn't need problems and told us he'd block him too. We have a ton of eBay stories.
Our eBay auction policy is simple...First off, all items are guaranteed genuine and will be instantly refunded including return shipping if proven otherwise. ("Proven" means deemed as such by a TPG or major numismatic professional that we know and with whom we can verify, and not by your third cousin with a Redbook or some show dealer who wants to sell you his/her piece instead.) Other than that- refunds (for the winning bid amount only, because we usually do free shipping) will be given only if the item has been grossly misrepresented (i.e. we described the wrong item, posted pictures of the wrong item, shipped the wrong item, or the item has major flaws not shown in the images or not mentioned in the description)... and only if it is returned in the same condition and unopened holder as sent. Otherwise it is considered an as-is sale, just like it is with every other auction in the world. We don't give refunds for buyer's remorse. We've made a few situational exceptions but not many. Also, if we do allow a return, since we usually do free shipping on all our items, you get to pay for return shipping (except for authenticity returns as mentioned above). That money goes to the PO, not us. I look on return shipping charges like putting gas in your car. It's the price you pay for driving our merch around. And thankfully given all the thousands of transactions we've done we really haven't had all that many issues. Most people get it.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
In OP's case, if it were me I'd just keep the item... but that said, the seller does clearly state a 30 day full refund return privilege...so assuming you followed the instructions regarding the RA number etc. you should get a full refund.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
It's not rocket science. If you don't like the terms and aren't willing to abide by them, don't buy from that seller and a lot of the problems that get posted about here would go away. I don't know why this is so hard to figure out.
i agree.
it is good to discuss this stuff from time to time, as are most things though even though at this point pretty much everything has been covered here. YAY.
i have a no-questions-asked return policy on all my accounts but depending on the item (mostly non-coins) i will usually ask to see if the buyer just missed something or isn't using something properly or just requires a bit of assistance (or i made a mistake) but unless it is something annoying like they didn't read the title, look at the pics or my very short descriptions, it goes well.
BUT my quality of life means more to me that most of the stuff i sell so if something is below a certain threshold or it is just too expensive to do back n forth and try to sell again where i pay shipping, i'll just refund and more on. don't remember anyone trying to abuse the system with me so it all works out.
most people doing a good job (as others have stated) will not have many or any returns so a straggler here n there is NOT worth getting worked up over for ANY reason. we will NOT achieve perfection in any aspect of this life, period.
@LanceNewmanOCC Is this what you were looking for?
I do have an update, I contacted the charge back individual - I had to "unblock" them, LOL - and mentioned other avenues. They allegedly shipped the item back to me yesterday. I'm not happy about that because the charge back is still in effect and that puts the damn thing back in my hands. He's now saying it was damaged in shipping. I said, "why did you not mention this 4 months ago when we could have filed an insurance claim?"
Update: got the full refund.
Apparently CCC has had many complaints and has been accused of many shady business dealings. Whatever. They have many great coins. But beware! If you make them mad, theyll block you. First time i ever returned an item and it will also be the last.
yes and tyvm.
i KINDA have something like this happening and wanted to post here since this is where a similar thing was discussed.
i shipped item X valued at $65 and it was shipped sept 18th and delivered the 21st. easy peasy.
SO today oct 20 around a month later ebay sends a message about : Payment dispute filed! - i have a 2 week return policy still as i think for most items anything outside that is madness but since this item WAS stated as delivered that is moot here.
This is ebay's first response to me in this particular case:
.
.
so posting this is for posterity. no one being right, wrong or otherwise. just what happened in this set of circumstances and how ebay handled it vs the payment dispute institution.
i CANNOT claim that the customer DIDN'T have a stolen identity, account, credit card, check or whatever as i am sure there are people buying goods on others accounts/identities so we can only know SO much about the specifics here and why the chargeback was files with NOOOOOOOO communication from the buyer to me for whatever reason(s). not a surprise.
so in the event the item was just stolen off their porch and they were legit just being patient and waiting for the item to show, knowing these days things are still quite frazzled with the system, i applaud their patience but still don't understand NOT even a basic communication.
lets say ALL things being equaled, this came about BUT the item didn't show as delivered, i would tell the customer that with the shipping service and level i use, it comes with either $50 or $100 insurance, so contacting sellers is ALMOST always the way to go even if to give them a chance to show how unreasonable they are, so you can say at least you tried. ya know?
hope it helps.
Good for you; you complied with the refund procedure and are entitled to a full refund.
Since CCC has 100% feedback, with 0 negs in their then of thousands of sales, they MUST have had a good return policy over the years.
Buyers like the OP are the reason I no longer give free shipping, since I want potential buyers to have a little more skin in the game than the return postage fee. I would automatically block the OP, since he is not the kind of buyer I with which I choose to deal. Nothing personal, just good business.
It makes no difference whether it is "free shipping" or "cost + shipping". If they file a SNAD with eBay, they will be refunded both as well as making you pay the return shipping.
In fact, arguably, charging them shipping actually encourages SNAD and chargebacks rather than straight returns. A SNAD basically is a straight return, but a charge back could take 3 months or more to resolve.
Are you referring to a specific listing of theirs? I've seen many hundreds of their listings and have never noticed any sort of "orange light" effect. Heightened contrast, definitely. I've also bought several of their coins and I expect they won't look quite as good as the pics, for better or worse.
I just wish I knew where and how they source tens of thousands of near-perfect vintage silver coins.
I took a small break from reading "War and Peace" to read this thread. It's good to hear that the buyer (consider-er) got his refund; however, I come from the old school of retail sales where "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" applies, and if I didn't think I could ban a problem customer from my retail establishment I'd really not enjoy my occupation nearly as much.
I'm referring to nearly every single (at least silver) coins looking identical to this. https://www.ebay.com/itm/165727985855
It is an orangish band from a light source (or possibly reflection I guess), but it appears to be a method of hiding some defects since you can't really see those surface areas well. I could be wrong but I've seen and been duped by enough of these guys to realize what they are likely doing.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
that's usually what it boils own to. the customer is always right vs we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason (except race, disability etc)
I had a buyer recently return a coin because he "found a better price" If you don't like the price don't buy it. He returned the coin. I refunded his money and YES I blocked him.
I would block for that too... There's not a lot else I would but that's a blatant abuse. Price guarantees are not a thing on ebay.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
That is a rotten buyer who needs to be blocked.
about a month later after the ebay notification, still no movement. so 2 months after package shows as delivered. for those that haven't read my situation (in another person's thread), ebay stated since shows delivered, i have no exposure here but if the buyer didn't really receive the item, i do feel for them but when something shows delivered and the crazy world we live in, it is tough to trust the words/actions of others in situations like this. if it were a transaction with someone i've done many with previously and/or i KNEW I could trust the buyer, i'd consider a 50/50 split refund because i do like the idea of splitting the pain. (and doubling the joy
)
the weird thing now i think about it, i don't recall anyone, ever, requesting signature delivery on items granted $65 isn't a great deal of money but to be fair i STILL read about people saying that signature required deliveries are not getting signatures, still. (there is a postal option, along with ups and MAYBE fedex, to forego signature and authorizing the institution to be the signee) so it may behoove some of you to see if you did file/agree to such an option and perhaps forgot? i think i've done it with usps and ups.
When you sell stuff on ebay... sellers should know stuff happens.
Did I see where you did not follow return procedures?
It cost money to process a return, the impact of seeing a sold coin pop back up in the store, etc... the whole reason for the return.
So they charge a restocking fee and block you... I get it
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
just for the sake of closure. about 2 months for them to get it sorted out, although from the beginning, since the item showed delivered, ebay stated that i was covered. i do feel for the buyer if the item for whatever reason, didn't show up.