Cracked All The Way Around (?) - Bust Half 1819/8

lilolme

First this is just a little bit of fun to see where cracks can go.
Another one of the TV of my bust half (from ANA TV sub).

1819/8 Large 9 (and I have it marked as O103a?)
This one has reverse die cracks that go all the way around, maybe. I thought I would be fun to enlarge the images and take a closer look at some of the intersections points.

If you have one cracked around would be interesting to see it.

The TV.

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The reverse TV. From 2o/c can see the die crack going thought the letters, then arrowheads and down to 50C. Then it goes through the leaves and wing tip and under the banner (EPU). There is also a diagonal crack across the eagle and shield.

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Better view of the diagonal crack through the eagle and shield.

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Now some enlarged areas. First at 2 o/c - The die crack cuts through the UNUM and then there is a faint crack from the banner to the bottom left of the M (easier to see in hand when tilting with best light). From the bottom right of M it intersects the middle of the E. Here also is the diagonal crack intersecting the bottom of the E and then extending through the top of the E into the dentils. The crack then goes from this diagonal crack above the E and into the top of the R where it then proceeds around through the letters.

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At 6 o/c - this is where I can't quite see the complete die crack connection. The crack comes into the 0 of 50 on the bottom side and then proceeds around under the 5 into the dentils. From the other side there is a faint crack from the leaf into the bottom 'bulb' of the 5. Below the 5 there are flow lines but in hand there are two potential crack lines. The photo shows one on the lower left of the 5. Is that it and does it connect? Maybe but looks just short.
Note: the one in hand is centered on the bottom of the 5 and down.

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Okay, one more fun point at 8 o/c - this is where the diagonal die crack intersects the peripheral one. The diagonal crack continues across the leaf and then a thin crack into the dentil. There is also a heavier die crack coming from the wing. This is a continuation of the one from the banner and it is difficult to see in photo due to tone but is in the middle of the lower wing feather or approximately straight down from where the crack intersects the top of the wing. This crack cuts across the diagonal crack and continues into the dentil (2 dentils below the diagonal crack). Also coming off the wing tip is another light crack that intersects the diagonal crack and forms a small X of cracks. The crack is also seen cutting through the leaves at about 7 o/c.

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That's it. Funs over.

coinkat

I suppose I should not be responding if the fun is over... seriously, I do not recall seeing one that has characteristics as well defined as your example.

Atcarroll

Mine's not as nice as yours is, but I'm happy with it, i bought it unattributed on eBay a few years ago for opening bid in an uncontested auction

lilolme

@coinkat said:
I suppose I should not be responding if the fun is over... seriously, I do not recall seeing one that has characteristics as well defined as your example.

Hey thanks for the comment. As far as the Fun ending it was about not having any more die crack areas to post but I suspect you knew that. But the next post kind of gave me an idea....??

lilolme

@Atcarroll
That is cool, has the die cracks. I just looked at my SS and I got mine in 1998 from a semi-local dealer but at an ANA show way away from home. It is interesting how these are still out there like you showed - good pick up. However, seeing you post that one made me think about another 'Tracking the Cracking'. That is are there enough of these 103 and 103a to where I can track what cracks showed up first and then last. My twisted mind. Problem is, need enough on public website or past auctions. I did it once before and this might be a candidate. Hmmm...

Here is the previous (and it was a 8 and large 8):
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1076990/10c-1798-large-8-tracking-the-cracking#latest

Pnies20

That was so much fun I could hardly contain myself!

Catbert

Calling @lkeigwin for expert commentary!

What a cool Bustie. Fun to follow the crack journey 😘

ricko

Those are interesting die cracks....and great pictures. Cheers, RickO

pursuitofliberty

Very nice! Indeed, an O-103a, and a latest Die State condition listed (103.5). Nice color and surfaces as well.

@Atcarroll has a nice one too! 103.4, as it missing the last crack progression so far as I can tell (that is the rev crack that joins the 5 to the lower pair of leaves)

And just for fun, the reverse of my speckled cutthroat (sorry not a great picture for the cracks, you have to look close).

Mine is an earlier state still, almost intermediate, which I consider a 103.3. This was from before the crack that bisects the rev was complete, or started to cause the upper half of the die (as viewed) to "sink", and before the circular reverse crack crossed the scroll at UNUM. You can just start to see the die fatigue where the crack formed from the E across RICA as well.

lilolme

@pursuitofliberty said:
Very nice! Indeed, an O-103a, and a latest Die State condition listed (103.5). Nice color and surfaces as well.

@Atcarroll has a nice one too! 103.4, as it missing the last crack progression so far as I can tell (that is the rev crack that joins the 5 to the lower pair of leaves)

And just for fun, the reverse of my speckled cutthroat (sorry not a great picture for the cracks, you have to look close).

Mine is an earlier state still, almost intermediate, which I consider a 103.3. This was from before the crack that bisects the rev was complete, or started to cause the upper half of the die (as viewed) to "sink", and before the circular reverse crack crossed the scroll at UNUM. You can just start to see the die fatigue where the crack formed from the E across RICA as well.

Nice coin. Thanks for the comments and particularly that they rate the degree of cracking. Sort of like the state of the die state it seems. I guess no need to go and track the cracking. I did look at some 103 and it appears the cracking started with the diagonal crack at about 2 o/c.

pursuitofliberty

Cracks and De Chips are the primary markers in Die State progression, and yes, the first crack is the diagonal reverse crack from the E in AMERICA that ends up bisecting the reverse by the time it gets to your state. Then the curved crack through the reverse field, and next the crack through RICA and across the arrowheads, and then the last, from the 5 across the leaves.

It really is an interesting study to see the different progressions of some cracks as they widen and connect, and as new ones appear in the life of a known die.

The BHNC published the latest Die Crack progressions that we know of earlier this year. It is called the "Die State Progressions of the Capped Bust Half Dollar Die Varieties ..." (mouthful, for sure) and it can found on David Kahn's website, or by contacting him directly.

lkeigwin

Lovely example, @lilolme. And indeed a fun die marriage to analyze.

Follow @pursuitofliberty's suggestion and get a copy of the BHNC's Die State Progressions. It is invaluable if you care about "tracking the cracking" (and for many other reasons too).

Here is mine in a slightly higher grade (55) and in the same condition (O.103.5) though the die crack that joins the 5 and lower pairs of leaves is pretty faint. This is the last crack to appear.

Heritage has a pretty good AU58 example of this latest die state. It is the image at the very bottom.
Lance.

lilolme

@pursuitofliberty @lkeigwin
Thanks for the comments and information. Also I checked the website and see the book. I might get one since it is not priced as hundreds of dollars type book.

Catbert

BTW @lilolme your coin is beautiful.

KensCoins2287

Here is my 103A, not as late state as the OP but still fun!
My 104A has similar cracks (minus the bisecting crack) it’s an interesting one to track die states too!

lilolme

@KensCoins2287 said:
Here is my 103A, not as late state as the OP but still fun!
My 104A has similar cracks (minus the bisecting crack) it’s an interesting one to track die states too!

It is interesting seeing the different stages of the cracks. Thanks.
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PS - I did go to the website to check out the book but it wanted me to create an account, email, login....To much just for a book. Might try calling and see if I can just order a book and pay. Wondering about that pdf file option.