Crack out and re-grade?
spyglassdesign
Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭✭✭
Just curious how often you guys do this, and if you are ever successful if you do send it back in raw? Has anyone had any luck sending an old coin in for a reconsideration?
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If cracking out coins never resulted in an upgrade, nobody would ever do it.
Fair point. Just curious how successful people are. 50%? Less?
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
It would really depend on the coins in question. If you sent back overgraded coins, there would be a really low chance. On the other hand, a batch of possibly undergraded coins may yield a better result.
Collector
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It all depends upon your numismatic knowledge, eyes and persistence. It has likely happened millions (no exaggeration) of times and a fair number of folks make their livelihoods from grading arbitrage. However, if you don't know what you are doing then the old phrase "a fool and his money..." comes into play quickly.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I’ve had little luck playing the crack-out game. I’ve succeeded twice in around 25 attempts. Not good.
Dave
AS @TomB said, success depends on how much you know.
Less!
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
My recent submission of 8 coins regular service resulted in 5 upgrades, one downgrade from a 66 to a 65+, one the same, and one that was previously a PCGS 65 came back as 'cleaned'
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
I have two coins in now. I’ll let you know what the results are.
Coin Photographer.
You must have a keen eye. Did you suspect the upgrades beforehand?
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
Such a large sample size, lol? Obviously, the results will be either 0%, 50%, or 100%.
I’m rooting for 100% for you, but my guess is you’ll be more than happy with 50%.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Yes. I felt that 4 were no brainer upgrades, 1 was a good chance, the one that downgraded from a 66 to a 65+ was absurd IMO, and the one that was a previous PCGS 65 and came back cleaned also absurd IMO. Must figure in my ownership bias of course.
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
I couldn't imagine a larger sample size
. This is a post where you wish you could hit like, agree, and lol. I will be happy with 50%, that's for sure.
Coin Photographer.
What if there is a down grade or two. Would that be -50% or -100%?
The of course there is one up and one down, then that might be back to 0% with a larger variance?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
Rightly or wrongly, my perception is if you think something is under graded, you need to bite the bullet and crack it out. When you send in for a recondisideration or the other guy’s holder, you have two strikes against you. The best thing is to make the grader start from scratch.
I did the crack out game several times when I was a dealer and had a perfect record. I have never done it as a collector because that was little financial point. I was not selling the coin.
Recently I took a fresh look at an AU-58 graded 19th century gold type coin that is in my set. When I bought it over 20 years ago, it was a very high end piece for the grade. Now, with “grade-fltion,” it looks better than many of the coins that are getting into MS-62 and 63 holders, including some with CAC stickers. Should I crack it before I sell it at auction some day? Or should I go for the rare gold CAC instead? Since it seems to be hard to get CAC to accept to grade anything these days, maybe that’s not an option.
At any rate, shifting grading standards do make one consider the re-grade option.
Seldom do it.
I don’t understand why anyone would crack and send in raw when the re-grade option exists which guarantees a coin won’t downgrade. I sent a couple in for reconsideration recently, and one got bumped a full point.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
While I only use Reconsideration in order to keep the same cert number so I’ll get the CAC sticker AUTOMATICALLY reapplied if it gets a plus, I understand the logic of those who choose to crack out instead of using the risk free method of Regrade. Perhaps those cracking out feel there could be a slight chance the grader might see the submission form when given the raw coin to grade after PCGS cracks the coin out with a Regrade. After all, if the grader says the coin is now a lower grade, SOMEONE has to look at the submission form to make sure the new holder uses the old grade. While I believe it’s all done properly and blind, many of us have a slight touch of paranoia (not meant in any negative way, as I’m part of that group, lol), and get comfort from knowing with a true crackout, PCGS graders will not know the previous grade.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Careful with terminology. For newbies, there are different service options described here:
https://pcgs.com/services/
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
I recently sent in for reconsideration the best 5 examples of about 40 coins of the same grades we looked at for comparison.
Just went 0 for 5 on upgrades with the quarterly reconsideration special. Including CAC and OGH examples. At least one was free. LOL.
The flip side is that of the other 35 coins with the same grades, several seem to have been overgraded
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
I have never sent one in for regrade or reconsideration. Not being a seller of coins, it would just be wasting money. If I were to do that, I would first crack the coin out and send it raw. I base that on what I have read here over the years. Without actually compiling the figures (and I will not), gut feel says that it seems that crack outs have a bit higher rate of success. Just an impression I have after reading years and years of these efforts. Cheers, RickO
I'm 0 for 1 with recon so far. That's why I was curious about the other option. Maybe I should have chosen regrade instead...
Much food for thought. Appreciate all the feedback!
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
It’s a number game and it boils down to probability. If the spread is high enough between the grade on the coin and the next higher grade you don’t have to be successful very often to show a profit. The same thing applies to a details coin that gets straight graded.
It certainly helps if you’re good at grading and you have a feel for how the grading process works. The biggest risk is your coin coming back with a lower grade or not straight grading and don’t forget about grading expenses.
I used to keep track of but I stopped a few years ago. At the time, of 169 resubmissions (a mix of regrades and reconsiderations), 48 upgraded by a full point or more.
I've also cracked and submitted dozens more with even better percentages. Inevitably, some previously straight-graded coins ended up in body bags, though. Big downside. So I only crack today when I am 100% sure about a straight-grade.
Lance.
Didn't someone on here recently crack out a coin, sent in for regrade, and it came back counterfeit?
I have 5 more already in reconsideration, but I just revised another 12 I had mailed Friday to regrade.
After more thought and above advice, unless the holder is really special, I will not do reconsideration again as several have wisely suggested. The regrade version allows me to get TrueView with Gold Shield and new chipped holders with no downside, except a little $$.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Yes there was, I can't find it but here is one from 2013
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I did have the guts to crack it out. I purchased a 35-D Boone on ebay in a Genuine Cleaned XF details holder. (I'm working on a lowball 144 set) It didn't look cleaned to me or others so I cracked it out and sent it back in.It came back counterfeit.
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https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/10682106#Comment_10682106
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Bad transactions with : nobody to date
There was this one below. I did not re-read but as I recall it was determined to have been a counterfeit slab that it was cracked out of.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1075017/crackout-gone-horribly-wrong
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
That's the one I was speaking of. Further down in the post, the original Original Poster says that PCGS got it wrong the first time and that a Customer Service Rep agreed that it was the same coin as in the original slab.
I have cracked some out….had a couple that were old ANACS graded AU50 that came back from PCGS AU58. I also had some that i got punched squarely on the nose too. Coins that i thought would grade came back Details Grade. Ouch!
I am much more cautious about what i will send for cross over or even a crack out. I look at the coin much more closely looking for hairline cracks. If I even think there might be some I use the philosophy “if in doubt, toss it out”. And I sell those coins as there are others that look for an old ANACS or NGC slabbed coins. The problem comes up when you try to get them into a PCGS slab, at least that’s the issue for me. I submit my coins to my registry and while you can keep track of non PCGS coins there in your inventory, they don’t count to registry sets.
I think you mean hairline scratches.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Xx
I have not cracked out any.. but had sent back (maybe 4 or 5) over time to be reslabed and reconsidered at the same time ... all came back back a grade higher but one only with a + grade added. usually they were in order PCGS or NGC holders & CAC. It is not uncommon to pick up pieces at auctions that had also been upgraded from there earlier auction appearances by someone but on the same token I won some PCGS lots that were in NGC holders at higher grades in previouse auctions but now in a PGCS holder at a lower grade.
I did have one piece I sent to PCGS to be conserved and to my surprise it came back as PF64 from a PF63 ... however, the coins appearance did not look much different, ... go figure?
OMG ... My Mother was Right about Everything!
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Here are my thoughts on shifting grading standards. Twenty years ago isn't that long ago. I restarted my coin collecting 20 years ago. I bought a few coins each year and worked with a mentor and looked at a lot of coins before buying. I have just submitted my first group to CAC. These were all coins bought before CAC had established it's reputation. The results - 9 out of 20 received a green sticker. No golds! Disappointed somewhat that only three out my seven commemoratives received a sticker. The ones that did sticker were really, really nice. Not just nice. I did have a sense after careful comparison with other coins in another series that five out of 12 in that series would possibly not CAC. The best coin, my 1921 MS65 Peace dollar did sticker!
No never done that.
Now I have sent in coins recently purchased (like ogh or rattlers) in hope of upgrade.