Options
Greatest Card Ever Auctioned - The Finest Rosen Mantle
DM23HOF
Posts: 2,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
I really don't have words to describe this event, this piece, other than sheer awe. It trounces the tilted PSA 10 for sure. Not sure about the other two PSA 10s yet those examples can only equal this beauty. Breathtaking, jaw dropping card. This has to be the greatest card ever to be offered for public sale. Perhaps the single greatest card in the entire hobby.
Instagram: mattyc_collection
2
Comments
Iconic card! Truly the finest example I’ve seen although I know of another PSA 10 that I haven’t seen pictures of in years. Anyone have pictures of the 2 PSA 10’s in existence?
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Matt - thanks for sharing and the centering and corners on that example are impressive. Can’t tell if the color is muted by the scan or not, but I am sure in person it glows. What is the backstory on this one. Obviously a new holder so was it a raw card laying around and subbed recently, crossed over, other…..
That's my question and curiosity as well. Why is it in a SGC holder? Was it originally in a PSA 9 holder?
>
Successful transactions on the BST boards with rtimmer, coincoins, gerard, tincup, tjm965, MMR, mission16, dirtygoldman, AUandAG, deadmunny, thedutymon, leadoff4, Kid4HOF03, BRI2327, colebear, mcholke, rpcolettrane, rockdjrw, publius, quik, kalinefan, Allen, JackWESQ, CON40, Griffeyfan2430, blue227, Tiggs2012, ndleo, CDsNuts, ve3rules, doh, MurphDawg, tennessebanker, and gene1978.
Outstanding. Thanks for sharing
Guys, go to HA.com and read the description and watch the video.
This was the pick of the litter, the best of the famous Rosen find-- the greatest find in our hobby's lore. It was sold to a man named Anthony Giordano in 1991, a sale documented in the news at the time. And it sat raw with him until now. There is even a letter from Rosen calling this very card the best/prettiest in Rosen's opinion of all the Mantles found in that find.
That provenance takes this card to another, rarefied level.
Being able to trace the lineage, ownership, provenance of a baseball card that old is VERY rare. Frankly that is why I cherish my 52 Mantle so dearly. Few Mantles can claim to have ironclad provenance from the pack to the owner's hands. Knowing that history, that generational continuum of the hobby, it feels great. Makes us feel part of baseball, Americana, etc.
Heritage's write up is spot on and spectacular. They call out rightly how this card was graded today-- and we all know at least one of the PSA 10's would never 10 today. Also, as always, it comes down to the card-- never the holder. And Heritage invokes the old "Pepsi Challenge" in inviting a comparison of this example and the three 10s. The best outcome for any card and this one is a tie. As a CARD lover, this Mantle is simply perfection.
Instagram: mattyc_collection
Do you really think this one is tilt free? Check the right border.
It is not tilt free, but as good as it gets.
Not tilt free but better than the Kendrick 10 and best one I've ever laid eyes on. Cannot imagine a better overall example.
This will fuel inject the 52 Mick and the vintage hobby in general.
Instagram: mattyc_collection
Beautiful Card. Uffdah!!
1951WP just listed his Malibu home for sale.
OT- What did Rosen die of ?
How does this card get delivered?
Here is mine— I am over the moon about that 9.5, yet still not sure I'd ever wanna pay an extra 10 million for corners
Instagram: mattyc_collection
Now I guess I should have read the Heritage description huh Matty? 🤔 will check it out later today.
For comparison sake post a photo of your PSA 4.5 when you get a chance. Someone will pay $5-10 mm+ for the 9.5 and yours is a fraction of the price with all of the eye appeal.
Appreciate the nice words, bro. The 9.5 is certainly king-- just happy to be able to hang!
Instagram: mattyc_collection
Well done nam
Now only if that card had some ink on it from the Mick.
Bro, Holy Cow can you imagine if the owner had Mick sign that? Good Lord. Would be 20m easy.
Instagram: mattyc_collection
So just like how we now have the legendary (and controversial) Gretzky/McNall Wagner, I guess this here is the Rosen Mantle. The best 1952 Topps Mantle you can get? Well if you happen to be a multi-millionaire who thinks nothing of spending a few million on just one card.
Dimes: 54S, 53P, 50P, 49S, 45D+S, 44S, 43D, 41S, 40D+S, 39D+S, 38D+S, 37D+S, 36S, 35D+S, all 16-34's
Quarters: 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
74 Topps: 37,38,46,47,48,138,151,193,210,214,223,241,256,264,268,277,289,316,435,552,570,577,592,602,610,654,655
1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
Just wow. That Rosen find is the pinnacle of all finds.
Now that is a beautiful 1952 Topps #311. What an amazingly beautiful card. Anytime a card like that shows up I am in total awe.
And the Heritage SGC example is really nice, too.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
For the sake of the thread readers and as a point of comparison, this is the card that is currently considered the king - in it’s original PSA holder - and it is from the permanent wing of the Fogel collection.
What a card…
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
I want it noted that I did not pay you to say that
Made my day bro thx.
Instagram: mattyc_collection
I can’t wait to see this in the monthly purchase post with your name on it.
Nic
Guides Authored - Graded Card Scanning Guide PDF | History of the PSA Label PDF
The 10's borders are cleaner. Both are great; but I like the Fogel 10.
I could be happy owning your 4.5 and being able to look at it as a collector, and having enough money leftover to buy a MLB franchise or own the 9.5. I know which way I am going. I remember seeing yours on display in the Louisville slugger museum, and we tried everything to make the guard fall asleep - Turkey sandwiches, glass of wine, some Benadryl… no luck. I still remember back in 2018 or 2019 when I had mine out at the National and had some lookers but did not sell until almost a year later. Can’t imagine what it would fetch today….
my heavens, what a beautiful card...
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
To be followed by the 1952 Topps high series pack rip video.
The owner of the card paid $50,000 for it in 1991. Not a bad investment.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Not sure the 9.5 would cross over to a PSA 10. Probably a crack and resubmit.
I dont think you ever want to remove that thing from the case. Attempt to crack it out with pliers yourself? Might be hard to keep a steady hand. You drop a jewel on the ground you pick it up. Its still valuable. You mishandle this card, you could lose ten million dollars in a fraction of a second. Even with the professionals at a grading company, we know there is a percentage chance it is mishandled and ruined. Definitely feel it would have been better to go to PSA originally. But now I think you need like three other seethrough bulletproof cases surrounding it. I think it deserves a room in a house in a display case that is drilled into the floor. Then maybe you need a security guard and an attack dog too. One group in front of the room and one group in front of the house. Then 10 foot high brick walls surrounding the house and a steel door. 😁
Yea right! Not a chance you’d crack that slab.
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
Hold my beer...
All joking aside, I do think it is a red flag that it is in an SGC holder when a PSA holder might net another 5 million or more. I assume there is a lot of this story not being told even though it is important that an official story be put out there. I have heard people suggest that there are no 52 Mantles in PSA 9 or 10 holders that were not originally sheet cut. At least at one point long ago. Probably before things became stricter and PSA openly declared we will not grade sheet cut cards that were distributed in packs. I think its very possible this is one of those and PSA would not grade it. It kind of has the look. It looks as if it could have been cut with something sharper than Topps was using in 1952. Maybe has the slightest wear but I would imagine 30 years could do that.
It's in an SGC holder because PSA doesn't offer a 9.5 grade. The feeling was that it wouldn't get a 10 and deserved better than a 9, hence SGC.
I'd rather have a PSA 9 52 Mantle than an SGC 9.5 Mantle. But everybody's entitled to do as they like. I'm just saying if I could get nice odds on it coming back from PSA without a grade I might place a small wager on it.
What kid of ‘nice odds’ would you be talking about?
50-1?
10-1?
5-1?
2-1?
Even Money?
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
I'd like the best possible but 8-1 would be cool. And hey, I could be dead wrong. I bet the Texas Rangers at 120-1 and the Marlins at 75-1 a while back when they were on streaks because you know, maybe. I lose bets quite often. I'm just saying maybe here. I have doubts. And I used to cut cards from sheets and submit them to BGS. So I know what they look like. They often don't resemble pack cards. I still do cut from sheets quite a bit but only with one set, the 1984 Topps Nestle, because PSA will grade them. BGS became too much of a pain to work with in that respect and the resale value eventually became horrible. And I heard stories from guys who cut from sheets first hand and second hand who have learned things. A guy who knew how to take oversized cards and shave a little off and get them to pass the grading test. Sheet cut cards that could pass through without being recognized as that. I think a lot of people are playing a lot of games with extremely valuable cards as we've learned in recent years. Then there are things some things people will take with them to their grave. I mean we know the previous most valuable card in the hobby, the Honus, was trimmed.
I'm including some pics of examples of sheet cut cards that were not cut at Topps, in this case by me with a superior high-end Kill Bill German blade which I no longer own. They come out almost a little too sharp. Its kind of a Topps Chrome look but on these old pieces of cardboard so it kind of raises an eyebrow.
All of these companies use different scales. A SGC 9.5 isn't claiming to be in the same condition as a PSA 9.5. An SGC 9.5 even says Mint+ on it, where a PSA 9.5 says GEM MINT. You could say it means the same thing. But, it doesn't necessarily mean the same thing. A SGC 10 says GEM MINT. A PSA 9 says MINT.
Interestingly a PSA 6 is Excellent-Mint when it should probably say Excellent-Near Mint. A 7 is Near Mint. A 5 is Excellent. Why would a 6 say EX-MT instead of EX-NM?
Also, if a fake is so good that the graders can't tell, is it fake? ^^ Shouldn't this stuff say Hand Cut? ^^
Why wouldn’t PSA give it a numerical grade? Unless I am mistaken there is photographic provenience going back to Mr. Mint and his find of a huge stack of high numbers. None of the cards associated with that find have had any issues. Why would this one? I would take the other side of the getting a numerical grade bet to the small extent I could afford to gamble. Now what grade it gets - would have no interest in betting on that. As to sales price I think the SGC 9.5 goes more than a PSA 9 and less than a 10. The owner is obviously a long-time collector and could have an affinity for SGC - many pre -war collectors do. I am slab agnostic as many of you know - but I doubt that many in the market will avoid it because it isn’t PSA.
PSA wouldn't give it a grade if they determined it was a sheet cut card or showed evidence of trimming or determined it did not meet the minimum size requirement. I had a BGS 9 that I sent to PSA to get in their slab and was surprised to see no, its not that they are saying it isnt a PSA 9. Its that it was too small. They wouldn't have graded it as anything but Authentic. I know Beckett measures it too so I guess each has a different sized ruler. Thought I might have seen a thread in the last couple months here where someone took PSA rejects or low grades and SGC slabbed most all of them at nice grades.
I dont know the whole Mr. Mint story but I thought the story was just he found a guy with a ton of 52 Topps and then he came back and said this is the best Mantle ever. I have seen a photo of a case that was bought. That info might be enough for a lot of people. Maybe if I heard or saw more I would be on board with believing it was a pack card. I'm not aware that anyone videoed him opening all the packs and they zoomed on this exact card and we are certain its the same one.
Again, I'm not saying I am convinced or certain its not a pack card or has been trimmed or altered. Just that I have some doubt.
And I get that okay an SGC 9.5 might get you more than a PSA 9. But why would you start there? Why would you think this is an SGC 9.5 and PSA does not have a 9.5 so I wont go there? If it is being deemed the best ever and there are 10s, why would you not see if you have a PSA 10 first? Hey, I like to buy some SGC cards. If they look nice. Because I was able to buy these Gem Mint Ohtani cards for like $80 that would sell for $200 in a PSA holder. So as a buyer sometimes yes please. But I dont want them grading my cards if I feel I get a better return somewhere else. And clearly they decided it was time to sell. The decisions were about money.
There could be a lot of details I learn about this that make me shift my opinion. But some of it just seems unusual to me. I find it hard to believe that someone could have something this valuable and spend all these years not choosing to have it authenticated or protected in a sealed case. People are different so I get that part. I just wish I had a spare 10 to 20 million lying around and could actually make the decision to pass on it because of my concerns. But the decision is real easy for me.
Heritage explained their decision making on the grade and company selected. Best to seek out good and correct information than shoot from the hip and make reckless, irresponsible comments on a message board.
For those who collect cards, and are all about cards, not loyalists to one TPG or another, this is simply a beautiful card and hating on it is a bad look.
Instagram: mattyc_collection
Keep in mind, SGC has two different levels of 10, after your card is better than 9.5. They have the 10 Gem Mint which is theoretically the same concept as a PSA 10 or a BGS 10 with not all the sub grades being a 10; and, they also have the 10 Pristine which is supposed to be equal to the BGS black label where all sub grades are 10's. Basically a Spinal Tap 11.
SGC grading scale:
Grade
9.5
Quality
MINT+
Description
Is a card that at first glance appears to be Gem Mint 10 upon close inspection it may have a tiny flaw(s) that keeps it from grading GEM MT 10.
Grade
10 GM
Quality
GEM
Description
55/45 or better centering, sharp focus, four sharp corners*, free of stains, no breaks in surface gloss, no print or refractor lines, and no visible wear. A slight print spot visible under close scrutiny is allowable if it does not detract from the aesthetics of the card.
Grade
10 PRI
Quality
Pristine
Description
A "virtually flawless" card. 50/50 centering, crisp focus, four sharp corners*, free of stains, no breaks in surface gloss, no print or refractor lines, and no visible wear under magnification.
The Mr. Mint letter is most of the value. This is a 5 mill card without the letter. But IMO the grading company doesn’t matter. The letter is the grade.
Agreed 100%
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Anyone care to do the math ?
What would that case be worth today if the owner held instead of sold to Rosen ?
Great question! If there were 25-30 outstanding Mantles with 7-10 stunning...$100-$200 million? And that's not even considering Jackie Robinson or Eddie Mathews...
This is historical. The scale used to be Mint, Ex-Mint, Excellent, Very Good, Good and Poor. Near Mint was added sometime in the 1980s and was shoe-horned in between the existing grades. Not sure when Gem Mint started but Mint used to be the top of the scale.
When I was a kid I was taught that nothing in collecting should be called Mint. Nothing was perfect.
The problem with a 6 saying Excellent-Mint is. PSA could put a mint card in a 6 holder and not be completely lying. It says Mint. I know it's a silly little detail.
I see what you're seeing, but it's not actually tilt in the cut of the card. It's the way the right side black line is "drawn" on that card. For a better explanation see this thread
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=186266
or this image:
That was a secret! But since the secret is out, yes, I am offering my dream home for sale. It’s a once in a lifetime card, after all. Beautiful house, Malibu address, asking $25 million…
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
To suggest that someone should not have a unique opinion or an original thought and share it, that someone is supposed to believe one thing that everyone else thinks and if they dont this is somehow wrong, to suggest this is how you are supposed to feel, to say not agreeing with everyone else is irresponsible, that is a really really bad look. I cant believe at this time in this country more than one person would be willing to go on the record with that stance.
I feel like I am aware of the same information everyone else is aware of here. Not a loyalist in any way. Just loyal to the idea of maximizing the value of any cards I own which in recent times has been with PSA depending on the fees charged. I'm not saying noone should ever choose SGC. Just thought if you feel you have close to the most valuable card on Earth, its a clear fact that PSA cards sell for more than any other grading company's card with the same grade. Without knowing the outcome/grade, that it would be a 9.5 which PSA does not use, I am just surprised you start with the company who gets you less on your ROI when the intention is to sell.
And I am not hating on the card. Just suggested I feel maybe there is a better than 12.5% chance PSA would not give it a numerical grade. Not like it's never happened. Its a possibility. If someone else does not feel that way fine. I accept we wont all agree. I think this is supposed to be a discussion board. If it is just a cheerleading session for a card, maybe we need to change title of the thread to Rah rah rah 52 Mantle SGC 9.5, if you dont think its the best thing you have ever seen, keep out.