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Would you return this coin?
amwldcoin
Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
I'm not one to return coins. I also blame the PCGS trueview as much as the seller, but the seller's pictures were pretty much like the trueview. I'm looking at this coin thinking, why did PCGS call this coin cleaned? If it looked like the picture I would be happy with it and probably give it another shot at PCGS. It's not an easy date to find either. Following is the trueview followed by my pictures which are pretty much spot on except they don't show that cleany sheen the coin has.
Would you return this coin?
This is a public poll: others will see what you voted for.
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Not offensively cleaned. It appears to have been gently cleaned with baking soda (typical for this type, back in the 60s). I could see this one pop out of the slab and placed in a Dansco-type set.
peacockcoins
It has that polishy sheen to it. If I thought it would toned down as a pocket piece I might would give it a shot. But my experience with coins cleaned like this is it will never tone. Of course if you want to wear it down a grade or 2 it might!
True views are called glamour shots for a reason.
The sellers pictures were the same. You see how it would be sold by my pictures if I was selling it!
If I won it in an auction, I wouldn't. In your images, the coin doesn't look at all bad for one noted as "cleaned". But even if it did, if I had concerns regarding how it might look compared to the images, I would ask the seller before bidding on it. Not doing so and then returning the coin, penalizes him unfairly.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Didn't you get exactly what you bought? It was in a cleaned holder, wasn't it?
If it doesn’t meet your expectations, and the in-hand look is contrary to the photos, I’d be completely comfortable returning it so long as the seller’s policy (which would have been known at time of purchase) permits so. In these situations I typically offer the reseller a restocking fee for the inconvenience of the return and taking the item out of inventory for a week, however none have actually taken me up on it.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
If I was unhappy with the coin and it came with an option to return, I'd return it. As far as true views go, there have been enough posted here that I wouldn't trust them to be particularly representative of what you see when you hold the coin in your hand.
The only time that I returned a coin was back in the very early 1970's, but yes, I would return this coin.
Did the auction content indicate the coin was cleaned?
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It was a Buy it now.
Return her if you have the option.
Was a Buy it now!
30 days and I will cover the return shipping if I return it.
I have noticed that the True Views always look better/different than the coin in hand.
I just used the trueview to back up the seller's pictures.
"I'm looking at this coin thinking, why did PCGS call this coin cleaned? If it looked like the picture I would be happy with it and probably give it another shot at PCGS. It's not an easy date to find either."
Based on this, I would be wondering why the seller is selling it as a details coin instead of sending it in himself.
I don't think that you will ever be happy with this coin. Put her in the mail.
No doubt about that! Just trying to decide how much of a hit I would take when I sell it if I don't return it! Anyone here that thinks I should not return it want to buy it????
I wouldn't return it, for the reasons I stated.
Additionally, I'm guessing you hit "Buy It Now" and didn't ask the seller about the pictures because you thought it might be a good deal and didn't want to take the chance that someone else would buy it first - unfair to seller.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
While I was in the yes camp at first, I changed to NO as you were warned by PCGS that it was cleaned with a details grade, it would be hard for me to return it as long as it was the same coin and it was.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Seller's photos:
(The OP didn't state he did, yet just so there isn't any confusion- the seller didn't post
the TrueViews.)
peacockcoins
I said no based on the assumption that you knew that PCGS called it “cleaned” before you purchased it.
Mr_Spud
Correct, that's why I looked at the trueview to verify the color of the coin.
No, but then again I don’t purchase ‘details’ coins.
Dave
A question for the "No" folks...
The seller accepts returns and even he offers to pay the return shipping. If you're not happy with the coin, what is wrong with returning it?
Then don't return it.
It's nice of the seller to state he offers this yet with eBay he wouldn't have the choice.
peacockcoins
If you can afford to keep it and not lose real money I'd keep it. Or as Jim Fehr of Ellesmere used to say, he never kept a coin he didn't like. But I've raised dealers' ire by sending back misgraded material.
As a “No” person, the question was “would you return this coin”…the OP can do what he likes within the rules of eBay. I would feel that I got a coin that was graded as described and at a price I’d been willing to pay. Pics can be deceiving but the seller’s matched PCGS, so I would not feel deceived, just that the pics didn’t really match.
Again, I wouldn’t return it, especially on a cleaned coin that was exactly as described. The OP can do what he wants and it won’t change my opinion of them.
Did you buy this with the intention of cracking it out? I would put a light on it and tip it around looking for hairline cracks..if you can see them they were accurate in their grade.
No i would not return the coin despite it being cleaned
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To those that are saying no because OP “knew it was cleaned”, so what? The issue here is the claim of a significant difference between the listing photos and in-hand look once OP received the coin. Whether the coin is details, MS65, VF30 or any other grade is irrelevant.
I returned a trade dollar that was BIN off eBay a couple months ago. The listing had slab photos, and there was a TrueView. When I got the coin the color/look was totally unexpected (worse, IMO) than what I thought it’d be. I courteously advised the seller (without insulting the coin or his photos), and offered to send him a modest restocking fee for his trouble. He was more than happy to take the coin back and declined my offer. I sent the coin back within 24 hours of receiving it.
If a seller chooses to offer a return policy, then they should be willing to deal with an occasional return. Just being fair, forthright and empathetic goes a long way and can make a small issue like this no problem at all.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
He bought a PCGS graded details coin and he got a PCGS graded details coin. I don't think it's exactly fair to buy a coin labeled "cleaned" and then complain that it looks cleaned.
Whether it was cleaned or not isn’t the issue, though. The issue is that the buyer expected to receive one thing but received another. One could argue that buyer’s expectations were completely unreasonable, but this wasn’t a sight-unseen wholesale transaction, it was a transaction the buyer entered into in large part because of the photos. Realistically there needs to be some expectation of variance from the photos to in-hand, but if it’s egregious (in the buyer’s eyes) and the seller offers a return policy, it’s hard to see how that isn’t “fair”.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
So, is it fair for me to buy a coin that I think might upgrade if cracked out but return it if I decide it won't? Is it fair for me to buy bullion thinking it is going to go up but return it if it didn't?
The OP said he thought it might straight grade if resubmitted. Turns out PCGS was right all along. There are costs to the seller in running an approval service. If the OP wants to return it, paying shipping costs both ways plus any nonrecoverable costs, then fine. But if the seller ends up paying one cent for his cleaned coin being cleaned, I don't think that's exactly fair.
You can't gamble on someone else's dime.
Here’s the “so what?” you asked about... The OP and many posters are well aware, that even well-intentioned images are rarely extremely accurate. He could have contacted the seller and asked how the coin differed from the images provided, but chose not to.
I believe in taking personal responsibility and in fairness. Under the circumstances provided, I believe that returning the coin would amount to failing at each of those.
As you should know, sellers on eBay don’t really get to “choose” to offer a return policy. And “Just being fair, forthright and empathetic” should should go both ways and apply to the buyer, as well.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I’d have a hard time justifying returning a coin already in a details holder.
“Reason for return: it’s cleaned, I was hoping it wasn’t”
If the OP had to deal with this sort of thing he’d probably start a thread about it.
If the only photo offered was the TrueView, I’d agree about requesting more images—but OP evaluated the seller’s slab photos against the TV and made an educated assessment of the in-hand appearance.
As far as the return policy, I have my account set to not accept them—I’m not up to speed on what established sellers are required to do as I only sell occasionally, and have not had any issues.
My comment about being fair, forthright and empathetic was actually referring to the appropriate conduct of the buyer. I agree that it goes both ways.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
You already knew it was cleaned, so not fair to the seller, IMHO.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
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I have to LOL at this comment! There are different levels of cleaned and if I was the grader I would have called it polished! I'm beginning to see a bit of hypocrisy in quite a few comments here! The coin looks nothing like what was pictured!
I wouldn’t have asked for more images - I would have asked how the coin differed from the images. That can be critical information, the type of which I try to provide to clients when they ask me to screen auction lots for them.
It sounds like you don’t fully understand the lack of choice eBay sellers actually have regarding returns, and that apparently, you’ve been lucky as a seller.😉
For the record, none of my comments are meant to imply that the OP is a bad guy for considering a return of the coin. I understand that he’d be within his rights, should he choose to do so.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Gamble? I bought what I was looking at in the picture! I didn't get what I was looking at in the picture. I was expecting an old cleaning...but it was not. Let's see others track records. I've probably bought 3-400K worth of coins on ebay without returning anything. Yes, I've eaten a few....but most were honest mistakes or overlooks. This coin wasn't cheap....I paid around 50% over problem free greysheet for it! This coin could have been accurately pictured and mine are actually cause for a return because I can't get the polished look to show!
I see your opinion as a Heritage policy! Thank God Heritage has improved their imaging! Not so long ago I got a few jaw droppers!
That's the thing! I don't! 99% of what I sell on ebay is better in hand than my pictures!
PS Reason for return....looks nothing like the pictures!
Want me to post 2 different levels of cleaned. I'm surprised at your comment. We've all seen coins slabbed as cleaned that made us scratch our heads....and even later got them in straight grade holders!
I said No... based on the seller's disclosure that the coin was cleaned and it's in a PCGS Details holder, I'd know what I was getting into from the outset and pay accordingly. FWIW, I like it as an album coin...
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I did look to see if the seller offered returns. Of course I jumped without asking a question. If I hadn't someone else would be facing the same thing I am. If this coin is listed with the pictures presented...it is what I would call a boomerang! It will come back many times!
My opinion about personal responsibility and fairness is my opinion, and it doesn’t apply just to rare coin transactions or even just to business matters.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.