@taxmad said:
Paid my son's fraternity dues - $1200 for Fall (apparently they only drink top shelf). I commented over the last 3.5 years, I have paid $8000 in dues - which would have been a nice down payment on a new car. Warms my heart that the taxpayers of these great United States of America are about to pay for my son's bar tab - with a little extra for Fall and a blow-out grad party!
Money for nothin'
Chicks for free
Get your money for nothin'
And your chicks for free
Oozin' money for nothin'
And your chicks for free
Get your money for nothin'
Chicks for free
This generation's gonna be pissed when gasoline is $20/gallon and the next group gets $30,000 in free loan forgiveness stuff.
I wonder how much they'd buy MY vote for?
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@blitzdude said:
God Bless America, greatest nation on planet earth. RGDS!
It could be, but unfortunately it will "run out of other peoples' money."
Heh, "Money" is just some digital digit invented by man. They can produce as needed.
I wouldn't waste too much time waiting around for your gutter and tin foil to become money. RGDS!
P.S.: The "Money" clock these past 18 months has slowed tremendously compared to what was happening 2017-2020. If that's the kind of thing you worry about well then now you should be happy. Just sayin.
unfortunately it will "run out of other peoples' money.
I'm not so sure it works that way anymore, since they can not only define what "money" is, but they can also create as much of it as they want in order to buy the loyalty of whoever they consider to be their own useful idiots, while at the same time they are obligating the plebians to carry the load for their whole scheme.
All the debt does is make it harder for anyone who doesn't fall into a protected class that they don't already manipulate with a few little handouts here & there. The money clock serves the purpose of obligating the plebs to fall in line with the program.
Time to kick the table over and invent a new game.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Millions of business and home owners will have a differing opinion.
How would you know ?
The correct question to ask is why dont you know?
.
Unlike politicians who often claim that "most Americans" agree with them, I do not presume to speak for other "Americans".
.
@cohodk said:
But maybe you're on to something. Maybe if we just give everyone lots of money, then they wont have to borrow to expand business or develop new technologies or train workers or start a doctors office.
You've solved the problem. Just give everyone all the money they need so they wont have to borrow. No more banks. Easy peasy.
Nope.
Successful businesses and individuals can buy assets with the proceeds from their endeavors (as it should be).
No need to give anyone any "free" money. In fact, "free money" in an oxymoron. If it is "free", then it isn't really "money".
The expansion of credit simply moves economic growth forward in time, at the expense of economic growth down the road.
And also at the expense of everyone who actually produces goods and services.
"Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; ... the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale." - Thomas Jefferson.
What you want is no credit. So you wish for that doctor to save $2 million from his working endeavors then build and equip a new facility. How old will he be before he can build this facility?
You wish that folk buy houses with cash. So you want Jr to live with Mom until hes 45 and can pay for a house in full.
Without credit scientists will not develop new medicines or devices.
I know many of you wish for the glory days of 1873, but I will speak for the rest of us and say no friggin way. We are happy the future has been pulled closer. And tomorrow it will be pulled closer still. Thanks to all those who are not afraid of risk, who can see opportunity, and can leverage resources.
BTW---23% of households have 0 debt, but every single one of them did at one time.
@taxmad said:
Paid my son's fraternity dues - $1200 for Fall (apparently they only drink top shelf). I commented over the last 3.5 years, I have paid $8000 in dues - which would have been a nice down payment on a new car.
So down payment infers you would need to take on debt to complete purchase. Dont you know debt is bad? No car for you until you can pay for it with cash. Only a fool would commit himself to such servitude. Stop enriching the creditors.
Credit steals from future income, it should be used wisely. Revolving credit for personal consumption reveals that the individual is simply living beyond his current and future means. There is responsible debt (as you pointed out) and there is reckless debt. Reckless debt and reckless credit will doom the borrower and eventually the lender.
@cohodk said:
What you want is no credit. So you wish for that doctor to save $2 million from his working endeavors then build and equip a new facility. How old will he be before he can build this facility?
You wish that folk buy houses with cash. So you want Jr to live with Mom until hes 45 and can pay for a house in full.
Without credit scientists will not develop new medicines or devices.
I know many of you wish for the glory days of 1873, but I will speak for the rest of us and say no friggin way. We are happy the future has been pulled closer. And tomorrow it will be pulled closer still. Thanks to all those who are not afraid of risk, who can see opportunity, and can leverage resources.
BTW---23% of households have 0 debt, but every single one of them did at one time.
You fail to consider how the wide availability of credit causes the cost of everything to be bid up. Homes, cars, college tuition, medical equipment, etc.
PS:
Multi-generational households are common in other parts of the world. Here in the United States we have been "conditioned" to reject such arrangements.
@cohodk said:
What you want is no credit. So you wish for that doctor to save $2 million from his working endeavors then build and equip a new facility. How old will he be before he can build this facility?
You wish that folk buy houses with cash. So you want Jr to live with Mom until hes 45 and can pay for a house in full.
Without credit scientists will not develop new medicines or devices.
I know many of you wish for the glory days of 1873, but I will speak for the rest of us and say no friggin way. We are happy the future has been pulled closer. And tomorrow it will be pulled closer still. Thanks to all those who are not afraid of risk, who can see opportunity, and can leverage resources.
BTW---23% of households have 0 debt, but every single one of them did at one time.
You fail to consider how the wide availability of credit causes the cost of everything to be bid up. Homes, cars, college tuition, medical equipment, etc.
Have you failed to consider the alternative?
Maybe we should have grandma and the kids move back in. Let's create excess housing availability. No new houses to be built for decades. No need for builders, plumbers, electricians, appliance repair, pool cleaners, roofers, realtors, flooring installers, window and door manufacturers, neighborhood snowplow dude, landscapers, furniture manufactures, stores that sell appliances, doors, flooring, lumber, paint, manufactures that make doors, windows, shingles, siding, flooring. No need for lumberjacks, or chainsaws, or equipment. No need for the land that the trees grown on.
Maybe you want to be "unconditioned" but not the rest of us. And yeah, I'm speaking for the rest of us.
"So the Fed can destroy demand, but only at the cost of the economy. It’s one thing if the inflation is coming from the demand side, but it’s not. It’s coming from the supply side, and the Fed can’t do anything about that. They can destroy enough demand to maybe bring inflation down, but only by destroying the economy. And that’s the point. The idea that the Fed can squash inflation without squashing the economy is false."
And this is why we will see a "FED Pivot" by year's end. BTFD, PMs are on sale.
FED is purposely attacking jobs in its attack on inflation. Forced unemployment will be meant to cool rising prices. Sounds good until a Sept., Oct. or Nov. BLS jobs reports shocks the economy and forces a major pivot in FED inflation fighting (rates) policy. Look for free money to escalate and PMs to appreciate it.
@cohodk said:
What you want is no credit. So you wish for that doctor to save $2 million from his working endeavors then build and equip a new facility. How old will he be before he can build this facility?
You wish that folk buy houses with cash. So you want Jr to live with Mom until hes 45 and can pay for a house in full.
Without credit scientists will not develop new medicines or devices.
I know many of you wish for the glory days of 1873, but I will speak for the rest of us and say no friggin way. We are happy the future has been pulled closer. And tomorrow it will be pulled closer still. Thanks to all those who are not afraid of risk, who can see opportunity, and can leverage resources.
BTW---23% of households have 0 debt, but every single one of them did at one time.
You fail to consider how the wide availability of credit causes the cost of everything to be bid up. Homes, cars, college tuition, medical equipment, etc.
Have you failed to consider the alternative?
Maybe we should have grandma and the kids move back in. Let's create excess housing availability. No new houses to be built for decades. No need for builders, plumbers, electricians, appliance repair, pool cleaners, roofers, realtors, flooring installers, window and door manufacturers, neighborhood snowplow dude, landscapers, furniture manufactures, stores that sell appliances, doors, flooring, lumber, paint, manufactures that make doors, windows, shingles, siding, flooring. No need for lumberjacks, or chainsaws, or equipment. No need for the land that the trees grown on.
Again you assume all those things can not exist without credit. But they can, and they do. And they did. In this country we had significant economic prosperity and industrialization from about 1875 to 1913 before the Federal Reserve existed and before the Federal Government issued very much debt.
In the Denver area we have vast expanses of cheaply-built single-family housing being constructed on postage-stamp sized lots, stretching out onto the Great Plains. My wife calls it "beige blight". These neighborhoods are in no way self-sustaining and most of the people that live there must commute some distance to find gainful employment. This is a very poor allocation of resources, enabled by the availability of credit.
@cohodk said:
Maybe you want to be "unconditioned" but not the rest of us. And yeah, I'm speaking for the rest of us.
Well, lets see ... You are just another anonymous person on a public forum, with that avatar, and we are supposed to believe that you speak for everyone ?
I don't think so.
Tell us who you are, what you do for a living, what your accomplishments have been, and then maybe you would have a smidgen of credibility.
PS:
The ONLY thing that speaks for everyone is the ballot box (assuming that it hasn't been hacked).
I usually get a kick out of arrogant and presumptive statements that declare people speak for 'everyone'. First you need standing.
No one here has it. Just their own personal opinion.
@dcarr said:
Tell us who you are, what you do for a living, what your accomplishments have been, and then maybe you would have a smidgen of credibility.
Really? So I could say I am or have been President and I'd have credibility? Yeah, that looks good on the resume these days. Lol.
Havent a lot of folk with "credentials" been speaking the last few years? How have they been received? In todays society, those with credentials are ostracized.
Just use your head folks. Have critical thinking skills. Focus on your own issues. Stop trying to save everyone from themselves. Question the fear mongers.
Question... If the S&P500 fell below 3000 in the next month, do you think stonks would be fairly valued? Keeping in mind rising interest rate environment and data like ttm PE ratio.
@derryb said:
stocks will be fairly valued when each reaches its book value. anything higher is being driven by speculative hope and expectation.
S&P500 valuation is currently ~4x book. So your current fair value for S&P500 is ~1,000? I'm bearish too, but that's beyond Winnie the Pooh bearish. I mean, even Eeyore is only calling for a bottom at $2,000.
Just use your head folks. Have critical thinking skills. Focus on your own issues. Stop trying to save everyone from themselves. Question the fear mongers.
@dcarr said:
Tell us who you are, what you do for a living, what your accomplishments have been, and then maybe you would have a smidgen of credibility.
Really? So I could say I am or have been President and I'd have credibility? Yeah, that looks good on the resume these days. Lol.
Havent a lot of folk with "credentials" been speaking the last few years? How have they been received? In todays society, those with credentials are ostracized.
Even with appropriate "credentials", what many people claim is hearsay.
Without any credentials, it is even less valid than that.
Apparently, you don't want to even divulge what line of work you are in.
My guess ?: A debt peddler of some sort (financial industry).
@derryb said:
stocks will be fairly valued when each reaches its book value. anything higher is being driven by speculative hope and expectation.
S&P500 valuation is currently ~4x book. So your current fair value for S&P500 is ~1,000? I'm bearish too, but that's beyond Winnie the Pooh bearish. I mean, even Eeyore is only calling for a bottom at $2,000.
book value, although accurate, is normally rock bottom. There will always be that hope and expectation I speak of until . . .
It will not surprise me to see a 2K S&P within 18 months. A drop to 2K will be a prelude to mass market fear.
Just use your head folks. Have critical thinking skills. Focus on your own issues. Stop trying to save everyone from themselves. Question the fear mongers.
"Stocks crashed in 1929 to 1932 by 90%. The risk back then and the magnitude of the problems then were nothing compared to what we have today. Remember, today it’s global, and it’s every single country in the world. . . . It’s everywhere, and no one can escape what’s coming."
"Stocks crashed in 1929 to 1932 by 90%. The risk back then and the magnitude of the problems then were nothing compared to what we have today. Remember, today it’s global, and it’s every single country in the world. . . . It’s everywhere, and no one can escape what’s coming."
This chart shows silver losing half its value during that time.
And your infamous chart shows the dollar gaining value during that time.
Perhaps you should not be "looking to dump dollars"?
"Stocks crashed in 1929 to 1932 by 90%. The risk back then and the magnitude of the problems then were nothing compared to what we have today. Remember, today it’s global, and it’s every single country in the world. . . . It’s everywhere, and no one can escape what’s coming."
This chart shows silver losing half its value during that time.
And your infamous chart shows the dollar gaining value during that time.
Perhaps you should not be "looking to dump dollars"?
It's what I do. Probably taking another dump this week.
This chart shows silver losing half its value during that time.
and like in troubling times such as 2009 it quickly bounced back, much faster than other assets that also puked during hard times. This time gonna be different? LOL
@derryb said:
suddenly hundreds of definitions of "recession." LOL
Does the meaning of "unemployed" include those who got tired of looking for an acceptable job?
10 million acceptable jobs available. Maybe the problem is unacceptable workers.
not everyone wants to be a barista.
We went through the jobs openings last month. Your assessment was proven wrong then.
If only barista jobs were available, then that would indicate that there is massive demand for people to make coffee for other people. That sounds more like an economy flush with cash and demanding of others to provide basic services. Your contention of a terrible economy would be hypocritical.
@derryb said:
suddenly hundreds of definitions of "recession." LOL
Does the meaning of "unemployed" include those who got tired of looking for an acceptable job?
10 million acceptable jobs available. Maybe the problem is unacceptable workers.
not everyone wants to be a barista.
We went through the jobs openings last month. Your assessment was proven wrong then.
If only barista jobs were available, then that would indicate that there is massive demand for people to make coffee for other people. That sounds more like an economy flush with cash and demanding of others to provide basic services. Your contention of a terrible economy would be hypocritical.
Looks like a pretty good jump in leisure & hospitality job openings to me. "Barista" is my term for this jobs industry.
@derryb said:
suddenly hundreds of definitions of "recession." LOL
Does the meaning of "unemployed" include those who got tired of looking for an acceptable job?
10 million acceptable jobs available. Maybe the problem is unacceptable workers.
not everyone wants to be a barista.
We went through the jobs openings last month. Your assessment was proven wrong then.
If only barista jobs were available, then that would indicate that there is massive demand for people to make coffee for other people. That sounds more like an economy flush with cash and demanding of others to provide basic services. Your contention of a terrible economy would be hypocritical.
Looks like a pretty good jump in leisure & hospitality job openings to me. "Barista" is my term for this jobs industry.
Yup...lots of folk out and about spending and demanding others make their coffee and fix their bed, while they enjoy life outside their bunker. Definately a sign of a terrible economy. Lol
Comments
someone should invent a name for this. LOL
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
someone should invent a name for this. LOL
Money for nothin'
Chicks for free
Get your money for nothin'
And your chicks for free
Oozin' money for nothin'
And your chicks for free
Get your money for nothin'
Chicks for free
This generation's gonna be pissed when gasoline is $20/gallon and the next group gets $30,000 in free loan forgiveness stuff.
I wonder how much they'd buy MY vote for?
I knew it would happen.
God Bless America, greatest nation on planet earth. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
It could be, but unfortunately it will "run out of other peoples' money."
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Heh, "Money" is just some digital digit invented by man. They can produce as needed.
I wouldn't waste too much time waiting around for your gutter and tin foil to become money. RGDS!
P.S.: The "Money" clock these past 18 months has slowed tremendously compared to what was happening 2017-2020. If that's the kind of thing you worry about well then now you should be happy. Just sayin.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
Money clock means nothing when you have a printing press.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
When the finally declare the money clock is broke they can just borrow a little and buy a new one.
unfortunately it will "run out of other peoples' money.
I'm not so sure it works that way anymore, since they can not only define what "money" is, but they can also create as much of it as they want in order to buy the loyalty of whoever they consider to be their own useful idiots, while at the same time they are obligating the plebians to carry the load for their whole scheme.
All the debt does is make it harder for anyone who doesn't fall into a protected class that they don't already manipulate with a few little handouts here & there. The money clock serves the purpose of obligating the plebs to fall in line with the program.
Time to kick the table over and invent a new game.
I knew it would happen.
Y'all are afraid to kick anything but an old tin can.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
.
Unlike politicians who often claim that "most Americans" agree with them, I do not presume to speak for other "Americans".
.
Nope.
Successful businesses and individuals can buy assets with the proceeds from their endeavors (as it should be).
No need to give anyone any "free" money. In fact, "free money" in an oxymoron. If it is "free", then it isn't really "money".
The expansion of credit simply moves economic growth forward in time, at the expense of economic growth down the road.
And also at the expense of everyone who actually produces goods and services.
"Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; ... the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale." - Thomas Jefferson.
What you want is no credit. So you wish for that doctor to save $2 million from his working endeavors then build and equip a new facility. How old will he be before he can build this facility?
You wish that folk buy houses with cash. So you want Jr to live with Mom until hes 45 and can pay for a house in full.
Without credit scientists will not develop new medicines or devices.
I know many of you wish for the glory days of 1873, but I will speak for the rest of us and say no friggin way. We are happy the future has been pulled closer. And tomorrow it will be pulled closer still. Thanks to all those who are not afraid of risk, who can see opportunity, and can leverage resources.
BTW---23% of households have 0 debt, but every single one of them did at one time.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Those would be bonds. And we've been told buying bonds is foolish. You know nothing!!! Lol
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
So down payment infers you would need to take on debt to complete purchase. Dont you know debt is bad? No car for you until you can pay for it with cash. Only a fool would commit himself to such servitude. Stop enriching the creditors.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Credit steals from future income, it should be used wisely. Revolving credit for personal consumption reveals that the individual is simply living beyond his current and future means. There is responsible debt (as you pointed out) and there is reckless debt. Reckless debt and reckless credit will doom the borrower and eventually the lender.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
"There is responsible debt (as you pointed out) and there is reckless debt."
Totally agree with derryb's one liner.
You fail to consider how the wide availability of credit causes the cost of everything to be bid up. Homes, cars, college tuition, medical equipment, etc.
PS:
Multi-generational households are common in other parts of the world. Here in the United States we have been "conditioned" to reject such arrangements.
Yep, that straw man was absolutely demolished 😉
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Have you failed to consider the alternative?
Maybe we should have grandma and the kids move back in. Let's create excess housing availability. No new houses to be built for decades. No need for builders, plumbers, electricians, appliance repair, pool cleaners, roofers, realtors, flooring installers, window and door manufacturers, neighborhood snowplow dude, landscapers, furniture manufactures, stores that sell appliances, doors, flooring, lumber, paint, manufactures that make doors, windows, shingles, siding, flooring. No need for lumberjacks, or chainsaws, or equipment. No need for the land that the trees grown on.
Maybe you want to be "unconditioned" but not the rest of us. And yeah, I'm speaking for the rest of us.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
This thread only proves the great divide among our people.
FED is purposely attacking jobs in its attack on inflation. Forced unemployment will be meant to cool rising prices. Sounds good until a Sept., Oct. or Nov. BLS jobs reports shocks the economy and forces a major pivot in FED inflation fighting (rates) policy. Look for free money to escalate and PMs to appreciate it.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Again you assume all those things can not exist without credit. But they can, and they do. And they did. In this country we had significant economic prosperity and industrialization from about 1875 to 1913 before the Federal Reserve existed and before the Federal Government issued very much debt.
In the Denver area we have vast expanses of cheaply-built single-family housing being constructed on postage-stamp sized lots, stretching out onto the Great Plains. My wife calls it "beige blight". These neighborhoods are in no way self-sustaining and most of the people that live there must commute some distance to find gainful employment. This is a very poor allocation of resources, enabled by the availability of credit.
Well, lets see ... You are just another anonymous person on a public forum, with that avatar, and we are supposed to believe that you speak for everyone ?
I don't think so.
Tell us who you are, what you do for a living, what your accomplishments have been, and then maybe you would have a smidgen of credibility.
PS:
The ONLY thing that speaks for everyone is the ballot box (assuming that it hasn't been hacked).
I usually get a kick out of arrogant and presumptive statements that declare people speak for 'everyone'. First you need standing.
No one here has it. Just their own personal opinion.
everybody has one. and everyone has an opinion as well.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Really? So I could say I am or have been President and I'd have credibility? Yeah, that looks good on the resume these days. Lol.
Havent a lot of folk with "credentials" been speaking the last few years? How have they been received? In todays society, those with credentials are ostracized.
Just use your head folks. Have critical thinking skills. Focus on your own issues. Stop trying to save everyone from themselves. Question the fear mongers.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Question... If the S&P500 fell below 3000 in the next month, do you think stonks would be fairly valued? Keeping in mind rising interest rate environment and data like ttm PE ratio.
stocks will be fairly valued when each reaches its book value. anything higher is being driven by speculative hope and expectation.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
S&P500 valuation is currently ~4x book. So your current fair value for S&P500 is ~1,000? I'm bearish too, but that's beyond Winnie the Pooh bearish. I mean, even Eeyore is only calling for a bottom at $2,000.
And stop claiming that you speak for "everyone".
Even with appropriate "credentials", what many people claim is hearsay.
Without any credentials, it is even less valid than that.
Apparently, you don't want to even divulge what line of work you are in.
My guess ?: A debt peddler of some sort (financial industry).
book value, although accurate, is normally rock bottom. There will always be that hope and expectation I speak of until . . .
It will not surprise me to see a 2K S&P within 18 months. A drop to 2K will be a prelude to mass market fear.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Ok.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
me too!
All that matters is that each of us know who we, ourselves, are.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Do PMs have a book value?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
yep, but it is different than the book value of dollars.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Egon von Greyerz predicts a 90% drop in equities.
"Stocks crashed in 1929 to 1932 by 90%. The risk back then and the magnitude of the problems then were nothing compared to what we have today. Remember, today it’s global, and it’s every single country in the world. . . . It’s everywhere, and no one can escape what’s coming."
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
This chart shows silver losing half its value during that time.
And your infamous chart shows the dollar gaining value during that time.
Perhaps you should not be "looking to dump dollars"?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
It's what I do. Probably taking another dump this week.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/jobless-claims-tumbled-to-nine-week-low-of-232-000-layoffs-still-historically-low-11662035886
Recession? Lol
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
suddenly hundreds of definitions of "recession." LOL
Does the meaning of "unemployed" include those who got tired of looking for an acceptable job?
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
and like in troubling times such as 2009 it quickly bounced back, much faster than other assets that also puked during hard times. This time gonna be different? LOL
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
BofA Launches Zero-Down Mortgages
What could go wrong? Some lessons are never learned.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
10 million acceptable jobs available. Maybe the problem is unacceptable workers.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
not everyone wants to be a barista.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
My health system is still showing 7000+ open positions as of this afternoon. Far from baristas. Welcome to the REAL WORLD,
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
We went through the jobs openings last month. Your assessment was proven wrong then.
If only barista jobs were available, then that would indicate that there is massive demand for people to make coffee for other people. That sounds more like an economy flush with cash and demanding of others to provide basic services. Your contention of a terrible economy would be hypocritical.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Looks like a pretty good jump in leisure & hospitality job openings to me. "Barista" is my term for this jobs industry.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Yup...lots of folk out and about spending and demanding others make their coffee and fix their bed, while they enjoy life outside their bunker. Definately a sign of a terrible economy. Lol
Knowledge is the enemy of fear