What do you think about my "1804" Large cent?
WilliamF
Posts: 831 ✭✭✭✭✭
I'm very happy with this alteration on a really nice 1803 as it makes it so I can actually afford to fill the 1804 hole in my collection without purchasing an original 1804 in AG3 for $1K.
I'm interested to hear your opinions on this, would you buy it?
I got it for just under $550 btw.
It's also a 'small date-large fraction' which is estimated at $500 in VF25, I'm pretty happy with it 
![](https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/i/WilliamFlo/1804.gif?width=450&height=278"")
."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817
Comments
That's wild, and a nice looking coin.
It probably wouldn't be for me, but I'm not a large cent guy either.....
Nice pick up! I see absolutely nothing wrong with putting it in the 1804 hole.
Interesting coin. I don't really like the price for an altered coin, but it is interesting.
Interesting... who altered it?
Now that I don't know, I picked this one up on the bay not long after it was listed and the seller did not know the history of it either, interesting to think about though, and it is just about the best alteration for this date that I have seen, others are usually pretty crude, but this one had some time invested in it
."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817
Would have been wildly jealous had it been legit, but wildly sad that a 1903 was ruined to make this imitation, if indeed that was the case. The four is so obviously different it sticks out like a sore thumb. Sorry you paid so much.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
It's ok, you don't need to be sorry
Everybody's always telling me "If you like it that's all that matters" well guess what? I like it a lot
You're right about the 4 sticking out though, it would have been nice if they had used copper instead of brass.
Thanks for the opinion!
."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817
If? Theres no doubt about it being an altered 1803 as none other have the "small date- large fraction" pairing.
."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817
It's not my kind of thing to collect, but if you like it, that's good.
One of the nice things about this hobby is that everyone collects according to their own tastes, and that creates some interesting diversity.
Interesting piece. It's not something I'd gravitate towards but it does fill a very difficult hole. I'd be worried that someone might mistake it for real years from now and pass it off as "real"
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Very interesting piece. A few large cent collectors actually collect "1799" and "1804" alterations by die variety. I once saw an auction with electrotypes and interesting pieces that had quite a few "1799" and "1804" large cents.
http://images.goldbergauctions.com/php/chap_auc.php?site=1&lang=1&sale=60&chapter=3&page=1
"You can't get just one gun." "You can't get just one tattoo." "You can't get just one 1796 Draped Bust Large Cent."
No, I would not buy it. I would save up my money for the real deal. I have absolutely no interest in altered coins that are pretending to be rare coins.
I’ll pass. If I can’t afford a decent example of the real thing, I’ll go without. The 1799 and 1804 cents are one of the reasons why I hesitate with my large cent date set project.
I love the early half dimes, but I will never get an 1802. It’s just the way things are. Northeast Numismatics had the best example graded VG on the planet for many months. I would loved to have bought it, but at $150,000 +, it was beyond me. It was also priced a bit beyond the market, but for me that was a secondary factor.
Interesting coin. Thanks for showing it. This helps new collectors to learn and evaluate details of alterations. Cheers, Rick
Im with bill, I would not want to own an altered date just to fill a hole, nor would I want a coin so badly damaged its not worth looking at. I would even consider an ag even if nice and smooth to fill , if not, then Id leave the hole blank
i would pass at $100 as the date (which is why it is valuable) is altered.
Would have been nice to just keep it as a pleasing 1803 lol
.
have you tried poking the 4 with a stick?
edited to add: i only broach this because you say you enjoy it for what it is partly due to how well it was done but if the 4 was just added to the coin via however they did it....
the area surrounding the 4 really doesn't look like the usual disturbed area of the many altered date coins i've seen posted here and abroad and i don't know if you would be as happy if the 4 was not really molded from the coins own metal, which makes it much more interesting.
i leave the rest to you. you should be able to look at the base of the 4 where it meets the coin (we do it in vams a lot for authentication, looking for slide marks, beveled edges etc) and if it turns out to be a genuine altered 3 to a 4 coin, all the better and it is then beyond reproach! i like a little mystery in my life but just a little and answers usually aren't too far away.
A just under $550 mistake.
$550? Real money? Wow.
Not for me. I wouldn't intentionally buy a counterfeit. I'd rather have a hole in my set.
I did unintentionally buy a bad 1804 cent in 2011. It was in an NGC AG3 holder. When I discovered it was fake the dealer gave me a refund (and NGC paid the dealer). I picked up a real one (VG8) at a show.
Lance.
Meh...if he likes it, that's all that matters. I would have thought of it more as a $50-$100 curiosity.
Lance, I believe you are correct, the 4 does not appear to be composed of the original 3 as is normal with altered dates and I pretty much expected that going in because of how clean-cut the 4 and surrounding area are, also it appears to be a different metal, perhaps brass or bronze?
It's a good point but I still like it just as much
The original 1803 in this condition would be a $500 coin based on the small date-large fraction aspect, now it seems the value has gone way down in most peoples eyes but that's ok! To each his (or hers) own
."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817
Yep, real money.
The original 1803 in this condition would be a $500 coin based solely on the small date-large fraction aspect, so did I pay a $50 premium for a ruined coin...? I see it as a premium for an interesting piece of history... you have your opinions, I have mine
It's not a counterfeit either... it's a genuine coin that was altered, perhaps with ulterior motives but nonetheless, still a genuine coin
."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817
Is that what you consider this coin? "So badly damaged it's not worth looking at"?? I can't quite see where you're coming from with that perspective... That little bit of added metal just ruins the beauty of the entire coin for you huh? Wow
."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817
The large cent disease leads many of us to make questionable decisions.
I spent a tad over $2k on this, a Details coin in an undesirable holder:
I paid $72 for my 1804. P1 Details…
Smitten with DBLCs.
An 1803 in THAT condition would NOT be a $550 coin. You can't simply ignore the fact that it has been worked. It is now, at best, "tooled" or a details coin.
40 years ago?
."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817
It is a counterfeit 1804 even if it were made of an 1803.
Agreed
I love yours! But not quite enough to pay 2K for it.
."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817
Three years ago. I don’t know how to link a different thread but if you search “1804 72” it pops up.
Smitten with DBLCs.
I wouldn't buy it, but then again, people post stuff every day I wouldn't buy. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with them buying those coins. As long as you're happy with it, that's all that counts.
I meant before the alteration it is a $500 coin. And it's my coin so I actually can ignore the fact that it's been worked if I want to
."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817
I looked it up and all I can say is wow, if you were able to cherry pick that in that condition you have my utmost respect and you deserved to get a good deal!
."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817
That one has more meat on it than the one I was offered some years ago at more than 10x that price!
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Lol. You can ignore it. But you shouldn't ignore it when assessing value. If I were selling that coin it would be priced at $100 or less. But, again, whatever makes you happy.
Exactly…..most of us have to make compromises depending on our pain level. A straight grade coin with that much meat would have been at least another $1500. This was the best alternative (in my mind), after a lot of shopping and consideration.
Found it and very impressed by your find. I have cherried two 1796 Draped Bust Large Cents now for extremely cheap prices as "dateless" coins (both of them actually have barely visible dates), although neither of them are very pretty to look at. Still, I find myself very partial to the 1796s. Just something about them I like so much.
The flat ribbon is a dead giveaway... nearly every time.
"You can't get just one gun." "You can't get just one tattoo." "You can't get just one 1796 Draped Bust Large Cent."
I wonder if the brass 4 was used as an intentional "tell"? Sort of how jewelers sometimes repair holed coins and use a different metal/alloy??? In any case, that coin has a interesting story attached to it. I hope you enjoy the piece for a long time in your collection.
I would not want the altered coin at any price. For rare dates and varieties, I have no problem with problem coins. In fact, I like the details AG3 1804 with the terminal state double cuds currently being auctioned at Heritage.
Got my 1804 for around $30..
It's a rare Carson City branch mint piece as well.
Would I buy it, no I would not buy it for the price you paid, perhaps around $50 or so but not much higher. If you like it then good for you.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I bought this one on 12/14/1997. Bought raw and sent in myself.
Anyone need a 1799 hole filler? Was in a straight grade PCGS holder.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
I do not collect Large Cents... Did for 1 day and that did not go well.. Long story.
Anyway- I like it. Have no sense of what the true value is but you get a nice mid grade "04" for peanuts. The best part? It makes you happy... It probably is not for the purists... But c'est la vie. It is your collection.
One comment- If you leave a legacy please leave good notes for them when/if they would need to sell your collection.
I have had more than one upset heir when I tell them that a coin is not authentic or messed with. It happens but leave good notes if that issue were to arise.
Collect what you enjoy! Enjoy what you collect!
It does not work for me as I find it no different than adding a mint mark for a key date or buying a good counterfeit to fill a hole. If your happy with the coin, that is all that matters.
No not at that price. It's interesting though.
I'll gladly accept $550 for this 1914 added-D. It's a real 1914 and will nicely fill that 14-D hole in your wheaties album.
Lance.
P.S. Guaranteed fake. No return allowed.
Whoever altered the date on your 1803 did a pretty good job, It's too bad they didn't also correct the spelling on the reverse of this coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Very nice way to fill a hole in the album.
Got myself an altered 1939 Indian rupee coin from Europe because that year is one of the rarest in the series currently going for moon money.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
Since you asked, i think it's garbage. I'd much rather have a nice original 1803 and an empty spot in the album than an altered date.