I’ve placed “nuclear” bids of $500 on many $10-$20 items and always win them, sometimes paying as much as $60. I’ve also placed a “nuclear” bid of $60,000 on a coin I thought would sell for $15,000 to maybe $20,000. When it sold for nearly $120,000 I recognized that I misunderstood the market and more importantly who I was competing against.
We need to keep in mind that discretionary spending is simply not the same between individuals. $72,000 was VERY significant to me, whereas there are a surprising number of individuals where this sum is nothing to blink an eye at whatsoever. It isn’t always about what it can be sold for later either, sometimes we just want things.
I’m perfectly willing to bury myself in the things I love that I know I will have a very tough time finding a second example of, so are plenty of other people. Fortunately for me, many of the things I love I’m simply willing to pay more for than anyone else.
As for auction house integrity, I’ve never had any concern with the major players, and I’ve had very significant bids in place where the ultimate sold price is way, way under my max bid. Smaller players I’d be more cautious of personally.
@FlyingAl said:
Just make sure you have your permit before launching any nuclear bids in South Carolina:
SECTION 23-33-20. Permit required for firing missile. Before any person shall fire or attempt to fire or discharge any missile within the borders of this State, he shall first procure a written permit from the Aeronautics Division of the Department of Commerce on such form as it may prescribe.
In all seriousness, I think that the 3000% values quoted here were price guides, and let's all be real for a second, the price guides never anticipated the auction results of late. It's the new reality of coin auctions.
I also think that the “3000% of market value” was probably a reference to a price guide value.
Regardless, I wish people wouldn’t use price guide values and “market value” interchangeably, as the two can be very different.
My 10,000% value was market value.
In fact, I was bidding on something that a forum member called worthless, likely against another forum member
I collect exonumia from my hometown and a probably unique piece came up on eBay. Unfortunetly for me one of the biggest token collectors in the country try also lives in my hometown. My nuclear bid hit his and now I own a good for 10c pocket mirror at $1500.
I see a nuclear bid as how far I am willing to actually got for the lot but, as opposed to a strong bid, unrealistically high as a market expectation. In other words, it is the most I am willing to pay but very doubtful other bidders share the same level. My underbidder is expected to not approach that price at all.
@Boosibri said:
I collect exonumia from my hometown and a probably unique piece came up on eBay. Unfortunetly for me one of the biggest token collectors in the country try also lives in my hometown. My nuclear bid hit his and now I own a good for 10c pocket mirror at $1500.
If it's probably unique, why not offer it to the other seller?
I've thought about it for some nuclear bid things that own.... I don't want to call them radioactive
We need to keep in mind that discretionary spending is simply not the same between individuals. $72,000 was VERY significant to me, whereas there are a surprising number of individuals where this sum is nothing to blink an eye at whatsoever. It isn’t always about what it can be sold for later either, sometimes we just want things.
I’m perfectly willing to bury myself in the things I love that I know I will have a very tough time finding a second example of, so are plenty of other people. Fortunately for me, many of the things I love I’m simply willing to pay more for than anyone >else.
Is this all about instant gratification? Except for truly unique pieces, how difficult is it really to find other examples? Is one expecting to complete a set within a limited grade range and/or period of time?
@Boosibri said:
I collect exonumia from my hometown and a probably unique piece came up on eBay. Unfortunetly for me one of the biggest token collectors in the country try also lives in my hometown. My nuclear bid hit his and now I own a good for 10c pocket mirror at $1500.
If it's probably unique, why not offer it to the other seller?
I've thought about it for some nuclear bid things that own.... I don't want to call them radioactive
Oh I’m happy to own it. Just was shocked when my bid escalated from $200 to $1505 in a second.
Is this all about instant gratification? Except for truly unique pieces, how difficult is it really to find other examples? Is one expecting to complete a set within a limited grade range and/or period of time?
Some very esoteric exonumia items are so rare that you may never see another example, or you might wait 10 years before finding one for sale again.
Generally speaking though, for most U.S. and for that matter world coins, PLENTY of other examples are out there and there is no need to get caught up in the moment. You’re right. Sometimes though, the known examples can be counted on one or two hands and maybe you prefer how the present one offered looks over all the others…
Is this all about instant gratification? Except for truly unique pieces, how difficult is it really to find other examples? Is one expecting to complete a set within a limited grade range and/or period of time?
Some very esoteric exonumia items are so rare that you may never see another example, or you might wait 10 years before finding one for sale again.
Generally speaking though, for most U.S. and for that matter world coins, PLENTY of other examples are out there and there is no need to get caught up in the moment. You’re right. Sometimes though, the known examples can be counted on one or two hands and maybe you prefer how the present one offered looks over all the others…
All true. However, I would push back slightly. What you say is true if you consider coins of a particular type to be interchangeable. Each coin is unique, however, and even though 16D dimes are common, some people feel that the one with the exact look they desire is equally hard to find.
[Sidebar: that is part of the "price guide problem". Guides consider coins to be widgets not unique representations of an aesthetic.]
Many like me dislike the nuclear bidders. It makes it tough for the rest of us get a decent deal. My advice don’t bid above your comfort zone or strategy. I would rather lose then pay too much / support somebody else’s angle, support auction house profits. You may be able find better deal on eBay BIN.
Many nuclear bidders extremely wealthy. Let them get buried in it. In time they may get bored, market crash, move on. Just stick to working your angle. Perhaps you can find a market area not infested by them. I had one come to my table wanting moon money saying he paid a lot. I just offered my usual 10 pct back of bid / he moved on. No use for them. I can get a better buying deal on material off the bourse at a show or from a wholesaler.
Some very esoteric exonumia items are so rare that you may never see another example, or you might wait 10 years before finding one for sale again.
Collecting gives me a great deal of satisfaction. I've tried to justify it thinking values are pretty much "established."
Collecting rare esoteric exonumia items with "unknown" values is just not something I could be comfortable doing. I understand others have different levels of comfort. It reminds me of the scene from MAD MEN whereby Roger Sterling tells Don Draper to buy a Cadillac. "Do you know how invigorating it is to go in and write a check for sixty-five hundred dollars, and not care?"
I'm more of a Hobbyist/Enthusiast than an obsessive-compulsive... so I'd never place anything remotely to a Nuclear bid. I guess I just don't HAVE to have [insert widget here]. That's not to say that I don't bid strongly when I want something... and sometimes I actually win... but I'm not going to bid $2000 on a $200 coin...
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
Don of "Numismatic interests" did that once in a NY area coin club auction where the foreign coin expert who was snapping up all the deals in foreign listings, backed out once he went high enough to scare off the other guy. In a major certified coin auction I'm not sure that is an effective tactic. Or you could pull a Pittman, if I remember right, and put your arms up and bully the other bidders.
Is this all about instant gratification? Except for truly unique pieces, how difficult is it really to find other examples? Is one expecting to complete a set within a limited grade range and/or period of time?
Some very esoteric exonumia items are so rare that you may never see another example, or you might wait 10 years before finding one for sale again.
Generally speaking though, for most U.S. and for that matter world coins, PLENTY of other examples are out there and there is no need to get caught up in the moment. You’re right. Sometimes though, the known examples can be counted on one or two hands and maybe you prefer how the present one offered looks over all the others…
All true. However, I would push back slightly. What you say is true if you consider coins of a particular type to be interchangeable. Each coin is unique, however, and even though 16D dimes are common, some people feel that the one with the exact look they desire is equally hard to find.
[Sidebar: that is part of the "price guide problem". Guides consider coins to be widgets not unique representations of an aesthetic.]
Very true. To find coins with my exact criteria is difficult and can be challenging even though the coins might be fairly common
The best auction house for last minute bids is David Lawrence because if you are outbid in the last few seconds the bidding restarts for 5 minutes after closing to give you another chance to enter a higher bid if you want. Other auctions should do likewise
@Joey29 said:
The best auction house for last minute bids is David Lawrence because if you are outbid in the last few seconds the bidding restarts for 5 minutes after closing to give you another chance to enter a higher bid if you want. Other auctions should do likewise
It's a model, sort of a "live-internet hybrid". Since all auctioneers try to get the highest prices, I'd imagine there is a ton of research showing that none of the three is reliably highest, or, if live is, that when you factor in costs, it disappears for material that has a well-defined range.
@Joey29 said:
The best auction house for last minute bids is David Lawrence because if you are outbid in the last few seconds the bidding restarts for 5 minutes after closing to give you another chance to enter a higher bid if you want. Other auctions should do likewise
Heritage auctions stay open until all bidding stops. Stacks' Bowers auctions stay open until all bidding stops. The eBay timed ending is unusual, not the normal way auctions are run.
@Joey29 said:
The best auction house for last minute bids is David Lawrence because if you are outbid in the last few seconds the bidding restarts for 5 minutes after closing to give you another chance to enter a higher bid if you want. Other auctions should do likewise
Heritage auctions stay open until all bidding stops. Stacks' Bowers auctions stay open until all bidding stops. The eBay timed ending is unusual, not the normal way auctions are run.
Great Collections has a fixed time ending and is harder to snip.
@FlyingAl said:
Just make sure you have your permit before launching any nuclear bids in South Carolina:
SECTION 23-33-20. Permit required for firing missile. Before any person shall fire or attempt to fire or discharge any missile within the borders of this State, he shall first procure a written permit from the Aeronautics Division of the Department of Commerce on such form as it may prescribe.
In all seriousness, I think that the 3000% values quoted here were price guides, and let's all be real for a second, the price guides never anticipated the auction results of late. It's the new reality of coin auctions.
I also think that the “3000% of market value” was probably a reference to a price guide value.
Regardless, I wish people wouldn’t use price guide values and “market value” interchangeably, as the two can be very different.
My 10,000% value was market value.
In fact, I was bidding on something that a forum member called worthless, likely against another forum member
I always wondered who made me pay 10,001% of market value for that item...
Interesting reading through this one.
I know of 4 types of auctions and I think I saw them all here in different ways.
Auction has a hard ending - will end at a specific time with a countdown clock. The next lot is then scheduled to end a short time later (several seconds).
Auction has an ending time but is extended for a specific amount of time (few minutes) if a late bid comes in (late bid time set by auction company but seems to be last 1 minute or so). This extension will repeat as long as late bids come in. However, the next lot is Not delayed due to the previous lot late bid extension. It will end prior to the previous lot if no late bid comes in. Then the next lot is up and if it gets a late bid it is extended. So could have two or more late bid extensions going at the same time and then the next current lot also active and ending. @Joey29 Is this the way David L is? From your description I though it might be.
Auction that is on-line only but like a live auction. Auction will start and proceed lot to lot but the next lot will not open for live bidding until the prior lot closes. The active live lot will have a set amount of time and a count down clock and/or warning lot closing. A late bid will extend the lot for several more second until closing. Then next lot.
Live auction with a 'real live' auctioneer running the auction and coordinated with the online (if the online exist).
@lilolme said:
Interesting reading through this one.
I know of 4 types of auctions and I think I saw them all here in different ways.
Auction has a hard ending - will end at a specific time with a countdown clock. The next lot is then scheduled to end a short time later (several seconds).
Auction has an ending time but is extended for a specific amount of time (few minutes) if a late bid comes in (late bid time set by auction company but seems to be last 1 minute or so). This extension will repeat as long as late bids come in. However, the next lot is Not delayed due to the previous lot late bid extension. It will end prior to the previous lot if no late bid comes in. Then the next lot is up and if it gets a late bid it is extended. So could have two or more late bid extensions going at the same time and then the next current lot also active and ending. @Joey29 Is this the way David L is? From your description I though it might be.
Auction that is on-line only but like a live auction. Auction will start and proceed lot to lot but the next lot will not open for live bidding until the prior lot closes. The active live lot will have a set amount of time and a count down clock and/or warning lot closing. A late bid will extend the lot for several more second until closing. Then next lot.
Live auction with a 'real live' auctioneer running the auction and coordinated with the online (if the online exist).
Sort of but all the lots are bid on simultaneously not sequentially. All lots end at stated times on their clock next to each and every lot
@Joey29
Thanks, I think we are talking the same thing.
I see the confusion of my post because I said 'Auction has an ending time...' and this implies all lots ending. But actually I was wanting to say 'each auction lot has an ending time...' My bad. Kind of the same as the harding ending but with the extended time.
I might watch a DL auction this Sunday.
Comments
I’ve placed “nuclear” bids of $500 on many $10-$20 items and always win them, sometimes paying as much as $60. I’ve also placed a “nuclear” bid of $60,000 on a coin I thought would sell for $15,000 to maybe $20,000. When it sold for nearly $120,000 I recognized that I misunderstood the market and more importantly who I was competing against.
We need to keep in mind that discretionary spending is simply not the same between individuals. $72,000 was VERY significant to me, whereas there are a surprising number of individuals where this sum is nothing to blink an eye at whatsoever. It isn’t always about what it can be sold for later either, sometimes we just want things.
I’m perfectly willing to bury myself in the things I love that I know I will have a very tough time finding a second example of, so are plenty of other people. Fortunately for me, many of the things I love I’m simply willing to pay more for than anyone else.
As for auction house integrity, I’ve never had any concern with the major players, and I’ve had very significant bids in place where the ultimate sold price is way, way under my max bid. Smaller players I’d be more cautious of personally.
My 10,000% value was market value.
In fact, I was bidding on something that a forum member called worthless, likely against another forum member
I collect exonumia from my hometown and a probably unique piece came up on eBay. Unfortunetly for me one of the biggest token collectors in the country try also lives in my hometown. My nuclear bid hit his and now I own a good for 10c pocket mirror at $1500.
Latin American Collection
I see a nuclear bid as how far I am willing to actually got for the lot but, as opposed to a strong bid, unrealistically high as a market expectation. In other words, it is the most I am willing to pay but very doubtful other bidders share the same level. My underbidder is expected to not approach that price at all.
If it's probably unique, why not offer it to the other seller?
I've thought about it for some nuclear bid things that own.... I don't want to call them radioactive
Is this all about instant gratification? Except for truly unique pieces, how difficult is it really to find other examples? Is one expecting to complete a set within a limited grade range and/or period of time?
Oh I’m happy to own it. Just was shocked when my bid escalated from $200 to $1505 in a second.
Latin American Collection
Some very esoteric exonumia items are so rare that you may never see another example, or you might wait 10 years before finding one for sale again.
Generally speaking though, for most U.S. and for that matter world coins, PLENTY of other examples are out there and there is no need to get caught up in the moment. You’re right. Sometimes though, the known examples can be counted on one or two hands and maybe you prefer how the present one offered looks over all the others…
All true. However, I would push back slightly. What you say is true if you consider coins of a particular type to be interchangeable. Each coin is unique, however, and even though 16D dimes are common, some people feel that the one with the exact look they desire is equally hard to find.
[Sidebar: that is part of the "price guide problem". Guides consider coins to be widgets not unique representations of an aesthetic.]
Many like me dislike the nuclear bidders. It makes it tough for the rest of us get a decent deal. My advice don’t bid above your comfort zone or strategy. I would rather lose then pay too much / support somebody else’s angle, support auction house profits. You may be able find better deal on eBay BIN.
Many nuclear bidders extremely wealthy. Let them get buried in it. In time they may get bored, market crash, move on. Just stick to working your angle. Perhaps you can find a market area not infested by them. I had one come to my table wanting moon money saying he paid a lot. I just offered my usual 10 pct back of bid / he moved on. No use for them. I can get a better buying deal on material off the bourse at a show or from a wholesaler.
Collecting gives me a great deal of satisfaction. I've tried to justify it thinking values are pretty much "established."
Collecting rare esoteric exonumia items with "unknown" values is just not something I could be comfortable doing. I understand others have different levels of comfort. It reminds me of the scene from MAD MEN whereby Roger Sterling tells Don Draper to buy a Cadillac. "Do you know how invigorating it is to go in and write a check for sixty-five hundred dollars, and not care?"
The danger of nuclear bids is this can be exploited by a seller using shills and a knack of how high he can go. All it takes is one shill.
So when I lose an auction (like say bidding 10 pct above bid) I wonder was this a real nuclear bidder or a shill…
I'm more of a Hobbyist/Enthusiast than an obsessive-compulsive... so I'd never place anything remotely to a Nuclear bid. I guess I just don't HAVE to have [insert widget here]. That's not to say that I don't bid strongly when I want something... and sometimes I actually win... but I'm not going to bid $2000 on a $200 coin...
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Don of "Numismatic interests" did that once in a NY area coin club auction where the foreign coin expert who was snapping up all the deals in foreign listings, backed out once he went high enough to scare off the other guy. In a major certified coin auction I'm not sure that is an effective tactic. Or you could pull a Pittman, if I remember right, and put your arms up and bully the other bidders.
Very true. To find coins with my exact criteria is difficult and can be challenging even though the coins might be fairly common
The best auction house for last minute bids is David Lawrence because if you are outbid in the last few seconds the bidding restarts for 5 minutes after closing to give you another chance to enter a higher bid if you want. Other auctions should do likewise
It's a model, sort of a "live-internet hybrid". Since all auctioneers try to get the highest prices, I'd imagine there is a ton of research showing that none of the three is reliably highest, or, if live is, that when you factor in costs, it disappears for material that has a well-defined range.
Heritage auctions stay open until all bidding stops. Stacks' Bowers auctions stay open until all bidding stops. The eBay timed ending is unusual, not the normal way auctions are run.
Bid boards don't seem to be very common any more, but they have a fixed ending time like eBay does.
TeleTrade used to have "incremental" bids. I had a question about a listing and was sent the bid history for the coin.
Great Collections has a fixed time ending and is harder to snip.
I always wondered who made me pay 10,001% of market value for that item...
The underbidder determines the final sale price. Sadly, (or perhaps fortunately), I've been that guy plenty of times.
Interesting reading through this one.
I know of 4 types of auctions and I think I saw them all here in different ways.
Auction has a hard ending - will end at a specific time with a countdown clock. The next lot is then scheduled to end a short time later (several seconds).
Auction has an ending time but is extended for a specific amount of time (few minutes) if a late bid comes in (late bid time set by auction company but seems to be last 1 minute or so). This extension will repeat as long as late bids come in. However, the next lot is Not delayed due to the previous lot late bid extension. It will end prior to the previous lot if no late bid comes in. Then the next lot is up and if it gets a late bid it is extended. So could have two or more late bid extensions going at the same time and then the next current lot also active and ending.
@Joey29 Is this the way David L is? From your description I though it might be.
Auction that is on-line only but like a live auction. Auction will start and proceed lot to lot but the next lot will not open for live bidding until the prior lot closes. The active live lot will have a set amount of time and a count down clock and/or warning lot closing. A late bid will extend the lot for several more second until closing. Then next lot.
Live auction with a 'real live' auctioneer running the auction and coordinated with the online (if the online exist).
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
Sort of but all the lots are bid on simultaneously not sequentially. All lots end at stated times on their clock next to each and every lot
@Joey29
Thanks, I think we are talking the same thing.
I see the confusion of my post because I said 'Auction has an ending time...' and this implies all lots ending. But actually I was wanting to say 'each auction lot has an ending time...' My bad. Kind of the same as the harding ending but with the extended time.
I might watch a DL auction this Sunday.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023