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Nuclear Bids

I’ve been outbid several times in the last year or so on several coins at various auction houses and recently I thought about putting in a nuclear bid on a certain coin I’m eyeing. I’m talking 3000% of market value. I didnt do it but it crossed my mind.

What’s the most outrageous bid you’ve put on a coin.

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Comments

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FranklinHalfAddict said:
    I’ve been outbid several times in the last year or so on several coins at various auction houses and recently I thought about putting in a nuclear bid on a certain coin I’m eyeing. I’m talking 3000% of market value. I didnt do it but it crossed my mind.

    What happens when somebody else has the same idea and bids 2500% of market value? Just wondering...

  • RelaxnRelaxn Posts: 861 ✭✭✭✭

    I am always concerned about the integrity of the auction house... if I put in a nuclear bid will the auction house push it up...

    I set a budget and then I decide do I want to break the budget...

    The other thing I ask... do I want to set the market...

    Then I bid

  • djmdjm Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FranklinHalfAddict said:
    I’ve been outbid several times in the last year or so on several coins at various auction houses and recently I thought about putting in a nuclear bid on a certain coin I’m eyeing. I’m talking 3000% of market value. I didnt do it but it crossed my mind.

    What’s the most outrageous bid you’ve put on a coin.

    You have to be careful with this, some online auctions sites allow the auctioneer to see the pre-bids and they will open the lot at your pre-bid so you may be buying the coin at 3000% of market value.

  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,752 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I do not use that strategy for auction bidding, I guess that means I am sure to miss some lots. But there will always be another coin in the kiddie part of the pool that I play in.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,830 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @djm said:

    @FranklinHalfAddict said:
    I’ve been outbid several times in the last year or so on several coins at various auction houses and recently I thought about putting in a nuclear bid on a certain coin I’m eyeing. I’m talking 3000% of market value. I didnt do it but it crossed my mind.

    What’s the most outrageous bid you’ve put on a coin.

    You have to be careful with this, some online auctions sites allow the auctioneer to see the pre-bids and they will open the lot at your pre-bid so you may be buying the coin at 3000% of market value.

    I don't know of any auction house that does that. What is this based upon?

  • djmdjm Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @djm said:

    @FranklinHalfAddict said:
    I’ve been outbid several times in the last year or so on several coins at various auction houses and recently I thought about putting in a nuclear bid on a certain coin I’m eyeing. I’m talking 3000% of market value. I didnt do it but it crossed my mind.

    What’s the most outrageous bid you’ve put on a coin.

    You have to be careful with this, some online auctions sites allow the auctioneer to see the pre-bids and they will open the lot at your pre-bid so you may be buying the coin at 3000% of market value.

    I don't know of any auction house that does that. What is this based upon?

    Most all of them that are on the iCollector site, I have watched the auctions live and seen them start at my max pre-bid rather than the current bid on the item. I don't really care I wouldn't have bid if I didn't want the item at that price.

  • FranklinHalfAddictFranklinHalfAddict Posts: 651 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @FranklinHalfAddict said:
    I’ve been outbid several times in the last year or so on several coins at various auction houses and recently I thought about putting in a nuclear bid on a certain coin I’m eyeing. I’m talking 3000% of market value. I didnt do it but it crossed my mind.

    What happens when somebody else has the same idea and bids 2500% of market value? Just wondering...

    Then you pony up and pay I guess.

  • retirednowretirednow Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Auctions take on t a life of their own sometimes.

    I have put in a proxy bid that I thought was very generous to market levels only to watch the prices zoom by during the live bidding. Keep in mind that the auction sell price is only one bid higher than what others wanted it for or believing that price was worth.. I have pick up a couple of these pieces a few years later at a discount when they popped back up on the market. Gee ... I see 2 pieces now on Great collections that I had bid live on a couple of years ago and lost to the winning bidder by a cut bid increment ( I had already bid one increment higher than planned so I was not bidding any higher) ... these pieces have been listed for several months (maybe a 3 rd or 4th round of an auction cycles at GG) and the starting bid is set at the winning price from the the original auction - no takers yet. Most likely winning bidder and I were the only bidders interested in these pieces at that level - I am now out of the market now as I picked up similar pieces since that time (and at a nicer price level).

    Think about the current housing market that we see in much of the country now ... offers at 5 - 15% higher than asking (list) prices on day 1 of listing. - Is it worth it?. Maybe or maybe not - time will tell to those buyers.

  • Dave99BDave99B Posts: 8,353 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't trust going nuclear. All it takes is one other collector doing the same, and you're in serious trouble. That said, I will come in very hard, right at the end. Sometimes 3x Greysheet, if it's a difficult date I need for a series that I'm working on, and it's an outstanding piece.

    Dave

    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,416 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I let other people do that. When they are buried in the coin, that's their problem, not mine.

    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • ThreeCentSilverFLThreeCentSilverFL Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭✭✭

    3000% of Market Value = Buried, generally speaking.

  • ToreyTorey Posts: 131 ✭✭✭

    Last year Great Collections was auctioning off a coin that I simply, had to own. Book was roughly $750. I was the high bidder at $1500 near closing but put a bid near the end for $10,000. It hammered at $2,600.
    I wouldn't hesitate to do it again for the right coin.

  • vplite99vplite99 Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sounds like a recipe for disaster (bidding any multiple of a coin's value).

    Vplite99
  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,248 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you think your nuclear bid will never be reached, you are wrong.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    If you bid “3000% of market value” and one or more other bidders bid anywhere close to that, “market value” is probably considerably more than you thought it was. In other words, you didn’t actually bid 3000% of “market value”.

    Reading the threads here for even a short period of time will show one that lots of people who think they know what "market value" is really don't.

  • JWPJWP Posts: 17,529 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Never heard of this Nuclear Option. Sounds scary, really scary. Don't think my SSA check would cover it. Good luck with the bidding. >:)

    USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
    Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members

  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's a good day when you go nuclear and the second highest bidder brings a slingshot ;)

  • FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,845 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just make sure you have your permit before launching any nuclear bids in South Carolina:
    SECTION 23-33-20. Permit required for firing missile. Before any person shall fire or attempt to fire or discharge any missile within the borders of this State, he shall first procure a written permit from the Aeronautics Division of the Department of Commerce on such form as it may prescribe.

    In all seriousness, I think that the 3000% values quoted here were price guides, and let's all be real for a second, the price guides never anticipated the auction results of late. It's the new reality of coin auctions.

    Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.

  • JW77JW77 Posts: 460 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've been dealing with post auction pain after being shut out at SB, so the only cure I see is going nuclear in the upcoming HA Central States Signature Auction. I'm sure it will be a financial loser, but the joy of my new acquisition will comfort me.

  • pcgscacgoldpcgscacgold Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Coins are a hobby. Buy the things you like. Pay what it takes to get them and don’t worry about what other people say about it. Many of the nicest coins that sell now may never again come to market in your lifetime.

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,837 ✭✭✭✭✭

    why would you ever put in a bid more than you are willing to pay?

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,858 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I gave up at 10,000% :o

    I believe the item was won by a forum member.

  • JW77JW77 Posts: 460 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pcgscacgold said:
    Coins are a hobby. Buy the things you like. Pay what it takes to get them and don’t worry about what other people say about it. Many of the nicest coins that sell now may never again come to market in your lifetime.

    Agree, as long as it is within your means.

  • Tom147Tom147 Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭✭✭

    3000 % Not on my budget. Just gotta remember price guide is a guide only. Recently paid almost double guide price for the last item needed to complete a set in a certain grade. This for a coin Pop 9/2 that hadn't come up for sale in the grade needed since 2018. Getting close to retirement I'm certainly not going to be able to afford it soon. Nuclear bid ? Nope, not for me. I'd have a meltdown.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,830 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @MFeld said:
    If you bid “3000% of market value” and one or more other bidders bid anywhere close to that, “market value” is probably considerably more than you thought it was. In other words, you didn’t actually bid 3000% of “market value”.

    Reading the threads here for even a short period of time will show one that lots of people who think they know what "market value" is really don't.

    But it would also show you that people think "nuclear bids" are a thing. So, 2 nuclear bids don't establish true market value either.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,014 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FlyingAl said:
    Just make sure you have your permit before launching any nuclear bids in South Carolina:
    SECTION 23-33-20. Permit required for firing missile. Before any person shall fire or attempt to fire or discharge any missile within the borders of this State, he shall first procure a written permit from the Aeronautics Division of the Department of Commerce on such form as it may prescribe.

    In all seriousness, I think that the 3000% values quoted here were price guides, and let's all be real for a second, the price guides never anticipated the auction results of late. It's the new reality of coin auctions.

    I also think that the “3000% of market value” was probably a reference to a price guide value.
    Regardless, I wish people wouldn’t use price guide values and “market value” interchangeably, as the two can be very different.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,830 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @davewesen said:
    why would you ever put in a bid more than you are willing to pay?

    Because you are a clever auction bidder...

    These are the some of the same people that don't bid early because someone will run them up. However, they think a last second nuclear bid is a good strategy.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,830 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FlyingAl said:
    Just make sure you have your permit before launching any nuclear bids in South Carolina:
    SECTION 23-33-20. Permit required for firing missile. Before any person shall fire or attempt to fire or discharge any missile within the borders of this State, he shall first procure a written permit from the Aeronautics Division of the Department of Commerce on such form as it may prescribe.

    In all seriousness, I think that the 3000% values quoted here were price guides, and let's all be real for a second, the price guides never anticipated the auction results of late. It's the new reality of coin auctions.

    Price guides are never supposed to "anticipate" the market. They are to reflect the market. They will always lag a rising or falling market.

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 15, 2022 7:39PM

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MasonG said:
    Reading the threads here for even a short period of time will show one that lots of people who think they know what "market value" is really don't.

    So, 2 nuclear bids don't establish true market value either.

    No, they don't. All they do is establish a value between two people who don't have a good enough sense of market value to bid what they think a coin is worth.

    edited to add... What the nuclear bidder is depending on (at worst) is an underbidder who understands and makes his bid based on the current market value. The nuclear bidder is hoping to win the auction by one more bid increment.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,830 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MasonG said:
    Reading the threads here for even a short period of time will show one that lots of people who think they know what "market value" is really don't.

    So, 2 nuclear bids don't establish true market value either.

    No, they don't. All they do is establish a value between two people who don't have a good enough sense of market value to bid what they think a coin is worth.

    I'm not sure I would characterize it as ignorance of market value. It's really just a flawed strategy.

  • FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,845 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @FlyingAl said:
    Just make sure you have your permit before launching any nuclear bids in South Carolina:
    SECTION 23-33-20. Permit required for firing missile. Before any person shall fire or attempt to fire or discharge any missile within the borders of this State, he shall first procure a written permit from the Aeronautics Division of the Department of Commerce on such form as it may prescribe.

    In all seriousness, I think that the 3000% values quoted here were price guides, and let's all be real for a second, the price guides never anticipated the auction results of late. It's the new reality of coin auctions.

    Price guides are never supposed to "anticipate" the market. They are to reflect the market. They will always lag a rising or falling market.

    True, poor word choice and that wasn’t the spirit of my post. I was hinting to the fact that oftentimes price guides are poor representations of the market because they require constant updating and they are rarely maintained as such.

    The best way to tell how what the market price of a coin is is to use the sold items feature of CoinFacts IMO. There’s often three or four recent auctions for a lot of grades and these rarely coincide with the price guide.

    Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 15, 2022 7:44PM

    @jmlanzaf said:
    I'm not sure I would characterize it as ignorance of market value. It's really just a flawed strategy.

    Edited the post you replied to. FWIW...

    If the strategy is "Win at all costs", is it really flawed?

  • alefzeroalefzero Posts: 869 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I nuke bid and won a few coins, but only ones of extreme rarity or unquestioned top pop status (usually both). Such a bid I was entirely willing to pay and the fact is that such coins then have a floor price established by the winner and underbidder. You can get burned in a subsequent sale, but not so often. Exceptions I suspect, but have not bothered to research, are the more common issues in the Eliasberg sale. Not everything was a major rarity but everything I followed hammered higher than the market. It was the one place where I should have gone nuclear on select lots on my faxed bid sheet.

  • ProofmorganProofmorgan Posts: 715 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Considering some auction houses bid and buy their own lots…..no names…..putting nuclear bids is risky. Just watch when auction houses put lots that “sold” in their inventory a week later. Be cautious….

    Collector of Original Early Gold with beginnings in Proof Morgan collecting.
  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,247 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, there are usually a bunch of denials but anecdotal evidence is there. Got to be careful about what you say hereabouts.

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • JW77JW77 Posts: 460 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So I'm tracking 3 coins in the upcoming HA auction. The one I'm most interested in already hit PCGS price guide, and we are only 3 days into pre auction bidding, LOL. So before all the pundits lecture me on the fact that the guide is not necessarily market, I get it! All i know is the the good stuff will be going for crazy high bids...just saying!

  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Seems like the right time to be thinning the herd.

    Have a nice day
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I used the nuclear bid on ebay auctions years ago when sniping.... Placed in the last 4 or 5 seconds... always successful, and never exorbitant final price... usually just two or three increments. Not sure if that can still be done.... do not buy there anymore. Cheers, RickO

  • savitalesavitale Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don’t think there is any such thing as a nuclear bid. If you bid 10 times, or 30 times, or 100 times comparable sales because you really want that coin, so be it. That’s what you are willing to pay.

  • DCWDCW Posts: 6,973 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I did a thread on this a few months ago. I've exercised the nuclear option a few times, and thankfully I'm still here to tell the tale.
    It certainly is reckless, though. I would say, only do this for those extreme situations where you are looking at an integral piece to your collection and it is unique.
    You can throw out the guides when you encounter a situation like that 👍

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • JBNJBN Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What makes a bid nuclear as opposed to strong? The impression I get here is that a nuclear bid would represent a hardship on the purchaser should the auction result wind up at or near the nuclear bid. Thus, one should never do a nuclear bid.
    If you want the coin, be there for the online/live bidding. If not possible, run the numbers, do a bit of gut check, consult loved ones if you are stretching outside of normal budget allocations, calculate the most you can afford, and bid just before the auction closes.
    My most outrageous bids came during an auction for a wonderful half dollar that I had to have. Was not going to win it at my bid, so pushed the bidding up more than a few increments, without success. It was undisciplined on my part, but the winner apparently had unlimited funds, so I wound up helping the consigner.

  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBN said:
    What makes a bid nuclear as opposed to strong? The impression I get here is that a nuclear bid would represent a hardship on the purchaser should the auction result wind up at or near the nuclear bid.
    .

    A nuke bid is about how much over a coins worth one bids and not about hardship.

  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,149 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Relaxn said:
    I am always concerned about the integrity of the auction house... if I put in a nuclear bid will the auction house push it up...

    It depends on the rules.

    Some auctions immediately convert your bid to an actual bid - old-fashioned mail-bid auctions like clubs are running.

    Some auctions convert your bid to an actual bid one increment above the previous high bid. And will then bid on your behalf up to the amount you specify.

    Read the rules...

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2022 3:58PM

    I bid only what I am willing to bid based on a deal that works for me. Otherwise pass.

    I don’t do nuclear bids. Yes there are people that do - perhaps it’s chump change to them.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency

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