1921 Walking Liberty

Benjiboy

Hello all!
I would like to preface this discussion by saying I am 100% new to this hobby (a month at most). I managed to stumble across a 1921 walking liberty 1/2 dollar piece. I took it to a local appraiser who specializes in coins and said it was beautiful and authentic. It weighed 12.341 grams, and had no magnetic properties. It does not have a mint mark, so we think it was minted in Philadelphia. With that being said, I am still concerned because this piece does not have a ‘’makers mark” like most other ones do. I am just concerned that I am not in possession of a legitimate piece. Looking for options. Please be nice, I will take all the information I can get. I am looking for options and comments on what to do next. I would like to have the coin certified and graded, but I don’t want to waste time if it is missing key marks right off the bat. Thank you!

LanceNewmanOCC

next step, post pictures. full obverse/reverse and close-up of the date.

some new members can figure out how to post pics but most can't. may take a few posts/days.

stevefromne

Can you take pictures and post them ?
If it's a mid grade circ or better, it's a big money coin.

Benjiboy

Any advice on how to post pictures, I cannot seem to figure it out.

LanceNewmanOCC

@Benjiboy said:
Any advice on how to post pictures, I cannot seem to figure it out.

either drag n drop or use an external hosting picture site and post the link here.

gumby1234

@Benjiboy What you call a "maker's mark" is called a mint mark and not all coins have them. A good place to start is by picking up a Red Book. Its packed with lots of useful information especially for beginners. You could have a valuable coin depending on the grade. Post photos here in a few days when you can and members here will weigh in on if you should have it certified.

Benjiboy

!> @gumby1234 said:

@Benjiboy What you call a "maker's mark" is called a mint mark and not all coins have them. A good place to start is by picking up a Red Book. Its packed with lots of useful information especially for beginners. You could have a valuable coin depending on the grade. Post photos here in a few days when you can and members here will weigh in on if you should have it certified.

Thank you! I will wait it out and post some pictures and see about ordering the Red Book. I think I misspoke about the makers mark. The mark it is missing is the initials AW that lie underneath the Eagle’s tail feathers on the reverse side.

• BB

gumby1234

@Benjiboy The designers initials could have been worn off, or struck from an over polished die. My guess without seeing photos would be wear.

Aspie_Rocco

Pictures are in reverse order

gumby1234

@Aspie_Rocco New members can not post photos immediately. It usually takes a few days or so.

COCollector

The 1921 Walking Liberty Half ("Walker") is a key date and potentially quite valuable.

Without posting photos, there are still 2 things you can do right now that will help determine its value.

First, confirm there's no Mint Mark. If there is one, it's located in the lower left corner on the Reverse side.

The mint mark is usually easy to see, even on a well-circulated Walker.

Second, evaluate your Walker's condition:
-- look for obvious damage (e.g., scrapes, gouges, scrubbing, cleaning, etc).
-- estimate its grade by comparing with other Walkers: https://www.pcgs.com/photograde#/Walker/Grades

More info: New to coin collecting? Start here.

streeter

Be patient. Don't clean the coin. Get some pictures posted that try to represent how the coin looks. I'm not quite sure that I've heard of a counterfeit 21wlh but nothing surprises me at this point.

TomB

@streeter said:
Be patient. Don't clean the coin. Get some pictures posted that try to represent how the coin looks. I'm not quite sure that I've heard of a counterfeit 21wlh but nothing surprises me at this point.

Modern counterfeit 1921 WLHs are out there (for all the mintmarks) and we had someone post one just a week ago or so.

FranklinHalfAddict

The local appraiser that specializes in coins “thinks” it was minted in Philly because there is no mint mark?
Are you sure they “specialize” in coins?

Also as others have stated pictures will go a long way in helping the members here help you.

ricko

@Benjiboy.... Welcome aboard. You will be able to post pictures in a few day. Meanwhile, you could post links to a picture hosting site. Then we will be able to help you. Cheers, RickO

Benjiboy

Thank you all for your comments, I greatly appreciate every comment. I will see about posting the pictures to a hosting site and then posting the links here. I’m sorry for the late replies - college is kicking my tail at the moment.

• BB

Benjiboy

https://ibb.co/Wp0PRXK
https://ibb.co/TK3f0fR
I hope these links work for everyone - they are through imagebb hosting site.
Thanks,
BB

streeter

Let's hear the story about how you 'stumbled' upon this piece.

Relaxn

That is a counterfeit coin.
The 2 and the 9 in the date are very wrong. Coin is not real. Any dealer who told you otherwise... hmmm

TomB

If someone has looked and would like to post the images in the thread then that would be great. In general, I don't click on links from new users.

Sandman70gt

I agree with Relaxn

Your coin on left, a 1921 from coinfacts app on right. The digits in the date aren't correct. The 2 is easiest for me to see

Benjiboy

Thank you for confirming my suspicions. I greatly appreciate it. What would be your following steps to seek reprimand to a dealer who sold a fake coin? Knowingly or unknowingly? I know it’s a federal crime, and what do I do with said fake coin? Doesn’t it have to be sent to the treasury?

nwcoast

Here are the photos from the photo links, and one obverse from CoinFacts for comparison.
Nice job @Sandman70gt .
You beat me to it.
I’m in agreement that it’s a fake.
The differences are glaring. In God We Trust is especially off.

Benjiboy

@streeter said:
Let's hear the story about how you 'stumbled' upon this piece.

I bought it from an NC estate sale. From an auction house that stated it was real. I took it to a coin shop in the small town I live in, where he also said it was authentic. I normally buy bone China and vintage silverware but coins have been catching my eye recently. You win some and you lose some, but I certainly lost this go round.

nwcoast

Welcome to the coin world @Benjiboy!
You’ve got the right attitude for sure!
You win some and you lose some! I think it’s safe to say that’s happened to all of us.
It’s how you pick yourself up and move forward that counts :-)
Seeking knowledge and learning from mistakes and others is the key to success of course.
Keep your eyes open at those estate sales. Get the CoinFacts App on your smartphone and have fun!
Good luck in your studies as well!

TomB

It's an obvious, blatant and modern fake. Anyone who says they are a coin dealer and who could not tell immediately that it was a fake is either lying or shouldn't be in the business.

Benjiboy

@nwcoast said:
Welcome to the coin world @Benjiboy!
You’ve got the right attitude for sure!
You win some and you lose some! I think it’s safe to say that’s happened to all of us.
It’s how you pick yourself up and move forward that counts :-)
Seeking knowledge and learning from mistakes and others is the key to success of course.
Keep your eyes open at those estate sales. Get the CoinFacts App on your smartphone and have fun!
Good luck in your studies as well!

Thank you, I greatly appreciate the positivity! It seems like a great world to be in. I will certainly learn from this mistake and move forward with more knowledge than what I started with. I will look into those apps, I was unaware of them but they seem like a great too have.

• BB

Benjiboy

@TomB said:
It's an obvious, blatant and modern fake. Anyone who says they are a coin dealer and who could not tell immediately that it was a fake is either lying or shouldn't be in the business.

Thank you, I will certainly be in contact with the shop owner. Now it’s time to find a good, reputable, local shop.

TomB

@nwcoast said:
Here are the photos from the photo links, and one obverse from CoinFacts for comparison.
Nice job @Sandman70gt .
You beat me to it.
I’m in agreement that it’s a fake.
The differences are glaring. In God We Trust is especially off.

Are those top two your images? If so, then perhaps you are an alt on the boards for TheGreatBen. That member posted the identical counterfeit, in the identical cardboard 2x2, just last week on the boards. The link to that discussion is https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/902006/a-simple-study-on-the-frequency-of-the-center-mintmark-position-for-1897-s-barber-quarters/p2 and the image is below-

Benjiboy

Yes - those top images are mine. I’m not sure what’s going on. I can post some more images of the coin in the morning. I’m sorry but I’m not familiar with the term “alt on the boards” or TheGreatBen. This is all very, very new to me.

TomB

It seems mighty strange to me that if you took those images after you won the coin that another member would have posted the identical image six-days prior when that member mentioned it was for sale in an auction and wanted advice. I'm not certain how they would have access to your images.

FlyingAl

@TomB I was thinking exactly the same thing. The first thing I thought when I saw those images was this is an alt account, I’ve seen those posted before by a different user. Was @TheGreatBen banned?

Edit: just checked, he’s not banned.

TomB

Not yet.

FlyingAl

@Benjiboy Please review rule 7 of the boards for an explanation of an alt account.

Benjiboy

@Benjiboy said:
Yes - those top images are mine. I’m not sure what’s going on. I can post some more images of the coin in the morning. I’m sorry but I’m not familiar with the term “alt on the boards” or TheGreatBen. This is all very, very new to me.

The images I posted are from the estate auction listing. I left the coin at my parents house because it’s safer there than my college dorm. I have no idea who TheGreatBen is. I’m a college aged girl who lives in NC. I’m sorry, but there definitely some confusion going on here. I will get legitimate pictures of my holding it tomorrow - just had my nails done, they are neon blue to prove it’s in my possession. I’m really sorry about this confusion, I don’t mean to make anyone upset or ruffle any feathers.
Edit to add “But your username is BenjiBoy” … well yes, my family’s dog name is Benjamin “Benji or Ben” and he’s a boy, lol.

Benjiboy

@FlyingAl said:
@Benjiboy Please review rule 7 of the boards for an explanation of an alt account.

Will do - thank you

BAJJERFAN

@Benjiboy said:
https://ibb.co/Wp0PRXK
https://ibb.co/TK3f0fR
I hope these links work for everyone - they are through imagebb hosting site.
Thanks,
BB

That's a dang nice coin. Fake or not.

BAJJERFAN

When one clicks on a link why is it necessary to leave the PCGS site in order to see it? Why not just open it in a new window? Is this a PCGS issue or a setting that I'm missing?

Benjiboy

@BAJJERFAN said:
When one clicks on a link why is it necessary to leave the PCGS site in order to see it? Why not just open it in a new window? Is this a PCGS issue or a setting that I'm missing?

I’m not sure, I’m new here so I can’t upload pictures yet. I had to upload it using a hosting site. I think that is why you have to leave this site to see it.

TomB

@BAJJERFAN said:
When one clicks on a link why is it necessary to leave the PCGS site in order to see it? Why not just open it in a new window? Is this a PCGS issue or a setting that I'm missing?

That has been a feature of the boards for at least two or three weeks, if I can recall correctly. I don't like it, but it appears to be the new normal.

BAJJERFAN

@Benjiboy said:

@BAJJERFAN said:
When one clicks on a link why is it necessary to leave the PCGS site in order to see it? Why not just open it in a new window? Is this a PCGS issue or a setting that I'm missing?

I’m not sure, I’m new here so I can’t upload pictures yet. I had to upload it using a hosting site. I think that is why you have to leave this site to see it.

I wasn't necessarily expecting you to answer it, but FWIW it's the same thing for links to a website.

BAJJERFAN

@TomB said:

@BAJJERFAN said:
When one clicks on a link why is it necessary to leave the PCGS site in order to see it? Why not just open it in a new window? Is this a PCGS issue or a setting that I'm missing?

That has been a feature of the boards for at least two or three weeks, if I can recall correctly. I don't like it, but it appears to be the new normal.

More like 2 or 3 years for me. At least now I know it's not just me. It's a nuisance for sure. Same with eBay for me. Click on an item and a new window opens.

FlyingAl

It’s a security feature. It allows you to see the whole link and hopefully stop before you go too far. It also stops you from accidentally going somewhere you don’t want to go.

It hopefully stops a few phishing attacks, but I’m not sure if it’s worked so far.

vulcanize

@FlyingAl said:
@TomB I was thinking exactly the same thing. The first thing I thought when I saw those images was this is an alt account, I’ve seen those posted before by a different user. Was @TheGreatBen banned?

Edit: just checked, he’s not banned.

But all the posts of his seems to have gone poof.

Some great observations and Interesting comparisons on thread.
My 1921 walking iberty halves are meh!!!! at best but had got all three from my LCS for $110.00, so am not complaining at all.

TomB

@vulcanize said:

@FlyingAl said:
@TomB I was thinking exactly the same thing. The first thing I thought when I saw those images was this is an alt account, I’ve seen those posted before by a different user. Was @TheGreatBen banned?

Edit: just checked, he’s not banned.

But all the posts of his seems to have gone poof.

Some great observations and Interesting comparisons on thread.
My 1921 walking iberty halves are meh!!!! at best but had got all three from my LCS for $110.00, so am not complaining at all.

Wow! The moderators must have thought @TheGreatBen was an alt and surgically removed him. That's pretty wild. It's a good thing I took screen shots of all TGB's posts!

vulcanize

@TomB said:
Wow! The moderators must have thought @TheGreatBen was an alt and surgically removed him. That's pretty wild. It's a good thing I took screen shots of all TGB's posts!

Don't think he will be back resurrecting this nick for a while. Perhaps maybe after starting another alt/alias

LJenkins11

Some of these threads are like short stories that start off so full of promise then quickly turn to intrigue, suspicion, then down right scandalous. Great work @TomB