1797 Draped Bust Large Cent
hbarbee
Posts: 189 ✭✭✭
1797 Draped Bust Large Cent
My specialty is Lincoln Cents but have reached the point where the missing pieces are mostly unobtanium. Therefore, I thought it would be interesting to develop a type set across the large and small cents pre-Lincoln to study the progression of designs. As per the PCGS registry, such a set would consist of 11 pieces.
Like others have mentioned on recent threads, I always wanted to own an 18th century example. While starting the search for candidates for the type set, I came across a 1797 Draped Bust and could not pass it up because the combination of grade and eye appeal that I wanted probably would not come along very often. I think it is the most attractive of the large cent designs. Although not attributed on the holder, it is a Sheldon S-135 and carries some interesting provenance. The PCGS survival estimate for all Draped Bust Cents in MS65 or better is only 40 pieces.
I have provided a link to the TrueView. Also, my pic of the holder which better shows the coin as it looks in hand. TrueView images for copper are great for evaluating surface preservation and strike, but often not so good for actual appearance.
https://images.pcgs.com/TrueView/41417389_Max.jpg
Since I am inexperienced in early cents, I would like to ask those knowledgeable here to comment on what aspects of the coin would make it higher than a 64 and lower than a 66. Also, your general opinion of the coin considering the price point was closer to a 64 than a 65.
Comments
I'm not that up on early copper, but that is spectacular!
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Holy crap!
Obviously from the Nichols Hoard. What a beautiful example. Can you share the provenance with us? Is this the Newman example? Chapman?
As for what makes this better than 64, but less than 66, it is hard to say without seeing the coin "in hand." What is the luster like? Aesthetically speaking (based on your photos), your coin is more attractive than some that have graded higher at PCGS and/or NGC.
Ah, jeez- that is stunningly beautiful!
(I also can't wait for TomB's reaction...)
peacockcoins
I am of no help other than to say that this coin is definitely Charlie Brown Approved!!
spectacular !!!
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I love early copper, but I’m in the very shallow end of the pool with the early dates.
I agree it’s likely a Nichols hoard coin, and a VERY nice one!
That's nice, but when it grades MS-65, and you are paying the price for that, you should get full luster. The photo does not show that. The coin might have it, and the photo just does not show it.
Here's a 1794 Cap Cent in PCGS MS-62. The coin looks better in person. This coin is not Mint State, but it's very nice.
Here is an angle shot. This one came from the Dan Holmes Collection. It's an S-21, and I think is #7 in the condition census.
Here's another one, also graded MS-62. This really is in Mint State, but the 1795s are not has pretty as the Head of 1794 coins.
My Draped Bust Large Cent type coin is not a great one.
If you are going to get any pre 1815 Unc. copper, I recommend getting one that has been holdered a long time ago. I had one start to develop PVC in holder years after I bought it.
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Just stunning, all of them.
Wickedly cool
Because it is a mint state 1797 S-135, the probability is that it came from the Nichols hoard. The coin was sold at auction by Stack’s Bowers in 2020 from the Larry Miller collection. At that time, it was in a PCGS Generation 3.1 holder (Mar 93 – Sep 98) and graded MS64BN with a green CAC sticker. I suppose the buyer resubmitted it because even though it has a subdued luster, I think it looks a solid 65.
According to the PCGS Population Report, there are 47 Draped Bust (1796-1807) cents graded MS65BN. Of those, 35 bear a 19th century date (1796-1799). Of those 35, a majority are from the Nichols hoard (1796 S-119, 1797 S-123 and S-135 and, "to a lesser extent," 1796 S-104 and S-118, 1797 S-122, S-136 and S-137). By far the most common variety in ms65 grade is the 1797 1C Rev of 1797, Stems.
There are many more Nichols horde cents in MS64 than MS65 and only a handful grade as high as MS66.
By EAC standards, most of these brown coins would only grade MS60+, due to lack of original mint red color.
By commercial standards (PCGS), an MS65 Brown coin should have minimal marks, attractive color and good lustre. If the lustre is subdued, the highest grade is MS64. Spotting should be minimal.
The OP coin looks like an MS65 to me, if the lustre is good.
This as described above, was lot 1010 in the EZM (Larry Miller) collection sale December 2020, selling for $18,600.
Here is their lot description (from Stack's-Bowers):
Lovely Choice Uncirculated 1797 S-135 Cent Likely from the Nichols Find 1797 Draped Bust Cent. S-135. Rarity-3. Reverse of 1797, Stems to Wreath. MS-64 BN (PCGS). CAC. OGH. A beautiful high grade Draped Bust cent irrespective of date or die pairing, this satiny and smooth near-Gem will please even the most discerning numismatist. Striking detail is razor sharp to full over most design elements, and nowhere is it less than bold. The impression is also ideally centered, and both sides have uniformly crisp denticulation around the borders. Faded autumn-orange mint color blends with warm medium brown patina to provide a picture of attractive originality. A faint, inoffensive toning spot at the right obverse border before Liberty's nose is the only worthwhile provenance marker. Noyes Die State A/B, with faint die clash (as made) on the obverse through the date, below the ribbon ends, and before Liberty's profile. Sheldon-135 is one of the most frequently encountered Draped Bust cents of any date in Mint State, due to the fact that it comprised a major portion of the Nichols Find. During the late 1850s David Nichols of Gallows Hill, Massachusetts began distributing an outstanding cache of approximately 1,000 Mint State 1796 and 1797 Draped Bust cents. The most plentiful varieties associated with the Nichols find are S-119, S-123 and S-135 (as here), although S-104, S-118, S-136 and S-137 were also represented. The coins were supposedly acquired directly from the Mint by Benjamin Goodhue of Salem, Massachusetts in late 1797 or early 1798. Goodhue, a congressman from 1789 to 1796 and senator from 1796 to 1800 as a member of the Federalist party, passed the coins to his daughters, after which they went to Nichols, who dispersed the last examples in 1863. Fortunately for today's type collectors and early copper enthusiasts, many of the Nichols Find cents were subsequently handled with great care and have remained in problem free Mint State. Almost certainly from this find, the Larry H. Miller specimen would make an impressive addition to either a type or Sheldon number set, as well as a collection of Guide Bookvarieties as an example of the Reverse of 1797, Stems to Wreath of the 1797-dated Draped Bust issue. Provenance: From the Larry H. Miller Collection. PCGS# 1422. NGC ID: 2242
I am guessing the luster dictates the grade.
Nice mark free coin.
That coin is in the area where you really need to see it in hand or at least have several different sets of pics showing luster and all the marks, surfaces to answer the question.
Nice coin. Fabulous early copper actually. As for the grade, I don't think my comments are likely to be meaningful from simply looking at photos. As others have said, it probably comes down to luster, which is always hard to evaluate from photos. The color looks nice and even with just a couple of darker regions on the obverse. There are a few little hits if you make the TrueView big enough, but nothing especially noteworthy.
I have a love of early copper but not a comparable depth of knowledge of the series. That said, I appreciate it's wonderful beauty! Well struck and centered practically mark free. At this grade level, I think the luster is the key factor at a grade of 65 and 66. Brown copper is so hard to photograph and most photos will make the coin look dull. I would love to own such a specimen. Congratulations and by all means keep us posted on your journey.
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@hbarbee Sweet coin! What kind of classic car is that in your PCGS avatar?
what an outstanding coin @hbarbee
I see something like this and read your post, and then view that TV, and I think ... Yeah, if you can only have one, what a great one to have!
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When I finished my red book collection of US large cents, 1793-1857 this was my example of the 1797 rev 97 stems (S-130, not mint state):
Sholly hit thats nice!
Very nice!!
Wow...that is quite a coin! Several others have mentioned it, but the centering is really just about perfect. You don't often see full even denticles on each side like this even in the upper tier grades like this. Seems like a perfect type coin for you...congrats! Can't wait to see what you fill the other spots with.
Thanks for all the inputs. Since I am not a large cent guy, I wanted to make sure it would be OK.
That sound you heard (all the way from the Southern Hemisphere) was my jaw dropping...
Smitten with DBLCs.
Wow... that's stunning! Congrats!!
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when you first posted the coin, i had to pop up the TV as usual and is a nice coin of course but i did notice some green spots that may need to be addressed for the long-run and upon closer inspection probably has had some removed in the past.
i'd nudge ANY either high-dollar or high-grade copper collector to scrutinize their coins, especially if going into long-term collections. it is just one of those; an ounce of prevention is worth a pound...
i don't recall too much chatter about acetoning brown copper as it will strip some good oils/gunk off the surfaces but may need to be replaced with some light treatment. anyone with the specific long-term copper restoration experience is welcome to chime in.
@hbarbee.... Wow... What a great cent.... Very, very nice. I am not even close to expert on early copper, but I do like seeing these coins. Have been wanting a '17xx' cent... Cheers, RickO