Coin Show General Question
ndeagles
Posts: 397 ✭✭✭✭
I've been collecting since 1993 when I was a young kid. I've been to a couple of local shows many years ago, I've never been to a major coin show. Most of my purchases have been from LCS, eBay, GC, or big sellers like apmex. ANA national money show is coming to my hometown and I'm registered and looking forward to the event. I have read about general coin show etiquette, I know I will need a mustard stain on my shirt to fit in, but I was curious if there is any strategy or method for locating specific items I am looking for. Do dealers post what they are planning to bring to shows like this, or do I simply wander around and ask people and look at their supply? I am looking for a couple specific items that have been harder to find, and I would hate to miss out on this opportunity to find something im looking for.
Do most dealers accept cards, or are most cash only?
Any other general advice would also be appreciated. Thank you!
Comments
Hi @ndeagles,
I'm heading to Long Beach tomorrow and found this website helpful for coin show tips:
https://www.longbeachexpo.com/visitors/faq
This will be my first national show. I always bring cash to the regional shows in the Bay Area but I understand there will be dealers accepting credit cards at Long Beach. I would prefer not to bring a suitcase of cash to the show so I am interested in how others complete transactions for expensive coins at these large shows.
Tim
Don't count on everyone accepting credit cards. Many dealers may do so, but you don't want to find what you are looking for only to find out they take cash or checks (from known parties). I would suggest you plan on knowing what you are specifically looking for and then, prior to going to the show, look through dealer inventories that are listed online (their own web pages, the PCGS Collectors.com site, ebay listings, etc...) and map out where the dealers are who are likely to have what you want. Then go and have fun (safely)!
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
If you're planning on using a credit card to pay, let the dealer know before you start discussing prices.
Please remember to post a show report on what you saw, purchased, sold and the quality of the hot dogs.
Cheers, RickO
Since credit cards cost the dealers money, they are going to cost you money. Offering $1,000 in cash or with your accepted check is NOT the same thing as offering to pay with a credit card. I don't use them, but I've been going to shows for many years, and my checks are accepted with no problem. If I am dealing with someone I have not known before, I've got dealers all over the room who will vouch for me.
Cash works, but it's dangerous to carry a lot of it, and for tax and reporting purposes, it can be a pain for everybody. Besides, if you are buying something significant, even $4 grand in 100 dollar bills gets bulky.
The best thing to do is to have a specific list of what you want and go looking for it. The room will be divided in U.S. and foreign and that will help to narrow your search. You can use sites like "Collectors Corner" to find out which dealers might have something. It has worked for me.
Also remember than some of the dealers come to deal with each other. Some of them might give you the cold shoulder. After you have been going to shows for a while, you will have a list dealers who have served you in the past. I go to them first. You might also have a list of names you might want to avoid. All of this takes practice.
Shows:
Cash is king on the bourse - bring buying cash. Do not use CC debt to buy coins. Very few take cc. Cash money is what they need.
Just make your rounds (initial overview) around the bourse. See if they have anything displayed of interest. If funds tight narrow it down to who your going to visit after making an initial overview.
I don’t take credit cards. Strictly cash and carry. If don’t have the buying cash to be buying then I don’t need to be buying. Some may be doing wholesale blowouts bc need cash. Jimmy blew out a coin at bid $600 dealer to dealer bc he needed pay Atty fee on cc lawsuit.
At last show setup at hottest item was dealer huge junk box / 6 world coins for 1$.
Cash and Carry, does that mean I can 'carry' to protect the amount of cash I have? Not about funds it's more discomfort carrying the amount of cash I will need to buy what I'm looking for.
Thank you all for the excellent advice!
Good luck, major shows are a total blast!
Don't be afraid to ask the dealers if they have 'X' or 'Y'. They usually can't display everything. They may have it in the back, or they often can point you to another dealer who might have it.
Stick with hard cold cash of you can. You'll get a better price.
Have fun,
Dave
Even if they do take credit cards, you have to pay the fee. So, more expensive. I have never used anything other than cash when buying coins in person. Unlike some of the high rollers here, I swim at the shallow end of the numismatics pool. So, it is no problem carrying the cash that I need to purchase coins.
As you have never been to a large show you may be very surprised at the number of people in the room carrying 10K or more in cash. Even at the local monthly show here I have seen deals for several thousand all in cash. While a few dealers may accept credit cards there will be an extra fee, and not that many want to or are setup to. If you know any dealers that will be setup at the show who will vouch for you a check may be an option, but cash is king.
Look at the list of dealers setting up at the show, check their websites for any inventory that you are looking for. Contact the dealer and ask if he is planning to bring that to the show. Most do not bring an entire inventory but will bring a coin if they know you are interested in seeing it at the show. Most dealers will ask if you're looking for anything when you approach the table, do not be shy and tell them what you are looking for. If they do not have it they may know another dealer that might.
If you are looking for a high value high demand coin, I suggest that you do not wait for the last day of the show to go, many dealers are gone by Friday.
One last thought, as this is in your home town you should have access to your bank, so if you go to the show and find what you want you may be able to put a deposit down and return in an hour or two to pay the balance. That way you are not having to carry loads of cash if you do not need to. Some dealers may be willing to accommodate, some may not.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I disagree with the comment about cash, especially for more expensive coins. No one would expect you to carry around 1000's of dollars in cash. Sometimes the dealers will take credit cards. Sometimes they will take your check (especially if you are known or have references). Sometimes you can leave a check, and they will mail the coin. PayPal, Zelle, Venmo, etc. are increasingly a part of the landscape, too. An experienced dealer once told me that collectors/sellers have more to fear from the check of a "random" dealer than vice versa.
Now, remember that when approaching a coin dealer at a coin show, it is best to bow your head slightly and modestly. No sudden movements. No reaching or grabbing. Do not look the dealer in the eye. Speak politely and clearly. Say "please" and "thank you". Do not interrupt conversations with other dealers, be they conversations about important business transactions or who had the most fun at the strip club the night before. Don't waste their time with stupid questions and being a lookie-lou.
No not advocating you carrying a weapon (that’s your call and subject to local laws) but just a term I use - sturdy briefcase or bag for ref materials, slab box, coins, etc.
I have a sturdy briefcase that use as carryon for flights and fits easily under seat in front of me or overhead bin. When traveling like that I do not let it out of sight and am cognizant / resist like someone trying rip it - get me change seats to few rows back (ruse).
Thank you for clarifying, I honestly wasn't sure.
Thank you for this perspective, and I'm glad to hear some are using other methods to transact, I would feel comfortable using PayPal, venmo, cash app or similar. Also don't mind credit card fees being added to the cost, as a prior business owner I understand the fees and am never offended when those costs are passed on.
Lots of great advice shared, thank you all for helping my first big show to know what to expect and how to be prepared.
If you are looking to buy an expensive coin and are afraid(for good reason) of caring a large sum of cash. Get a letter of credit from your bank and perhaps with this you will be better able to get a personal check accepted. Just a thought.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I've ran out of cash, late at a big show.
Found a coin that I really wanted and needed for a set I'm working on.
First, asked the dealer if he took credit cards and he did.
Second, asked for the credit card price and it was very fair so it worked out.
That was a unique situation for me.
Also if you see something that you really like, don't procrastinate too long. So many times I've taken a short stroll and come back only to find it gone.
Big shows can be overwhelming for first timers.
Pre-planning with want lists, prices, dealers names... will pay off big time.
You don't want to to be fumbling through price guides all day.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
Cash and Carry means you hand over the cash, and then you get to carry the purchased item away from the table.
(As compared with you making a smaller deposit, and they hold the item until you pay the rest).
I get this, but by the same token, if you see something in your wheelhouse that is really rare you might want to snap it up. Absolutely devastating to see a coin you "need" with only five known to exist, and have it not be there when you come back an hour later.
None of this applies if you are looking for an MS 70 2021 Morgan of any stripe or W mint quarter. Also, if you see something with a price that is really good you might consider buying, but you might also consider that you don't know what accurate pricing really is. You'd hate to buy a coin for $95 only to see a dozen better examples priced between $85 and 90. That is the real point of the hint. Also, if your budget is $5000 you don't want to spend $4000 on a coin tangential to your interests and find something core for $3000 later in your rounds.
Don’t need to carry large amounts of cash with you, just small amounts and keep larger wads back in hotel or safe place nearby and when you find the coin and agree on price give him your cell number and go get the money - dealer will hold it for you especially if you pay a deposit with the pocket cash you do carry.
Unusually I will carry a few Gs in cash and then more in my hotel if looking for a whale.
Do not look the dealer in the eye? Don’t get your thoughts on this.
If you look a coin dealer in the eye, he will hypnotize you and he will be able to read your mind. You will not be able to resist him or his coins. You will not be able to negotiate a lower price and you will pay his full retail ask price. You have been warned.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I have bought many coins at Long Beach and other shows and never paid in CC or cash, always personal check. I personally consider carrying anything over a few hundred dollars in cash unwise for security reasons.
Once a dealer or two will vouch for you, essentially all dealers will take your check.
Approach the show with a plan. At least seven days before hand, make phone calls to check to see if dealers will be attending and if they might be bringing what you are looking for.
Map out your floor plan with your priorities before you show up and get to the show as early as you can.
Bring as much cash as you are comfortable carrying. Bring a friend who knows more than you and let that friend keep an eye on you, your cash and help you to not make any mistakes.
Bring a note pad and pens in your zippered bag with shoulder strap.
If the dealer is busy, politely let him/her know you'd like to see something when they have a chance to show it to you. That lets them know you are not just there sight seeing.
This is definitely true, especially the payment apps. The last local show was fast more digital than it used to be. I would bet that 5 to 10 years from now, it'll be more common to use apple pay or venmo than cash.
In 1994 or so (before ebay) at a local show a guy in napsack was buying any gold coin he could find paying cash fresh stacks $100 bills. He bought all my $20 DE at retail less about 5pct. I had seen coming down bourse aisle shelling out the cash money.Best show I ever had. Banked big time loaded with cash. One lot of 20 one hundred bills star notes Gem CU! The new Notes had a wonderful smell of money.
I had looked at an estate at church told minister $1250 / $1500 retail. Mostly Mexican coins silver no gold knew nothing about many 19th century raw in binder of about 10 pages 2x2 (just multiplied them by a number that seemed right in making seat of pants offer after quick review KRS CV on a few plus a AU raw common $2.5 USA Indian offering bid then adding both numbers). Not 15 min after deal at show minister called said he would sell it for $1500. Really pushing it. About 20 min after that girl at Ritz Houston had partied with called asked if I would get LT VIP. Said wb really good move…..
With all that cash (about $15,000,huge profit big ticket sale) decided not spend any on coins. Next day bought both which panned out really good (launching me in new arenas) still leaving me lots of cash….. The star notes over next several shows huge profit launching my interest in currency. One guy reg customer came up “really glad to see u smiling u looked so hacked at that other show over there on north side” (public not buying - nothing but lookey looks, broke cheapos - couldn’t even make the table fee mad as heck).
I once saw USC execute a 95 yard td play pitch to tailback in bowl game against Texas A&M in bowl game and went on to win bigtime. One of most fantastic plays ever saw. Bowl game attended mainly get see those Cali cheer girls. When everything lines up go go go.
Knock cash if you want to but your blowing in wind with me.
If you're looking for something major, and you feel uncomfortable carrying around 5 figures in cash (or whatever your threshold for comfort is) bring your checkbook, and as others have mentioned, have your Venmo, Zelle or whatever setup and ready. If it's fee based to the seller, let them know before you talk price.
If you are wanting to use a check, be willing to offer to have them ship you the coin AFTER your check clears. You still will have a chance to look and inspect the coins IN-HAND, but then will have to wait a bit to have the coins home with you, like you would from an on-line seller. Not a bad trade-off.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
I don't understand the obsession with cash. For 40 years, I've been going to shows with just the checkbook and a small amount for incidentals (like bad bourse floor food). But now, even the vending machines at the Convention Centers even take CCs. Anyway, in all those years, I've never had a problem using only checks. If I find something I like, I just ask the dealer for his best price, then either write a check or politely decline and walk away.
Here's neat story - about five years ago, I just getting ready to leave a Winter FUN show and head to the airport. As I was walking down the aisles for the final time, a dealer came up to me with something really cool. The price wasn't cheap (around $15K) but it was fair. I told him my checkbook was in my luggage back at the hotel, he handed me the item, and said to mail him a check when I got home because he knew I was good for it.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
I have no problem with what works for me.
If checks do the job for you go for it. Everybody has their mode of operation / working their angle. Plus on really big ticket material that may be path to go for situations where parties with high capitalization have high level of trust - your call.
For me I am not their bank nor grantor of credit.
I use cash for smaller purchases and checks for anything over say $200. I hate carrying bulging wads of cash around.
Been going to shows for years and years and have never had a dealer say no to a personal check.
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
Forget to add... there is some good advice in this thread, enjoy your first show!
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
I bought 3 coins at the Long Beach show today. I tried to pay by check for all 3. None of these dealers knew me. One dealer took my check after Charmy, The Penny Lady, vouched for me. Another said they would only take a credit card and they charged me an extra 3%. The 3rd said they would mail me the coin after my check cleared and I said ok.
Mr_Spud
Lots of good advice here. The show promoter will have a list and a map of dealers, you can decide what tables you want to go to first.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
well, if they want cash and you don't have it with you. You can offer to pay with paypal plus paypal fee. That's what I would do if I want the coin.
Just wanted to follow up on this. Thank you all again for the excellent advice, it helped make my first show a success and it will not be my last!
I didn't take much cash, I had cashapp/Venmo/PayPal all ready. I had crypto, I had checks, and credit/debit cards. I ended up finding the coin I was looking for, I paid with debit for no extra card fee.
I did contact several dealers in advance, none had what I was looking for, I was at the show when they let us in, quickly made my way to every table looking for what I was looking for. I found the coin in the first pass. Against the advice given, I left the coin and proceeded to finish my first round, found another example but it was a lower grade than I wanted. I walked around debating the purchase decided to make the buy. Walked back to the table and another person was looking at the coin I was ready to buy. The second he put it down, I bought it!
Thank you all for the excellent advice, it helped me be prepared, helped me know what to expect, and helped make my first big show a success. I will be returning to the National Money Show tomorrow with my 10 year old now that I got what I wanted
My purchase
From the exhibits
The bourse floor
Wow, flashy proof merc!
Congrats and thanks for the report.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
I am so jealous of your purchase.
It is a drop dead gorgeous coin.
I’d have paid using my PayPal account for it.
Hate carrying large sums of cash.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
My photography does it no justice, and thank you. I've been looking for this for a while now.
That's a serious coin! I'm glad it all worked out for you.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
One other observation, I did notice many types of transactions, I saw people posting with check, and the guy said that dealer knows me, and she checked with the other dealer, I saw transactions with cards, I saw a $50,000 cash transaction with 5, 10k bundles of hundreds, and there were companies doing free bank wire, and several transactions with junk silver. Was really interesting to see all of the interactions. I certainly learned a lot!
There are also quite a few near-invisible transactions where dealers just hand a number of coins to another dealer with the details agreed upon verbally and payment occurs later. I have been a party to this type of transaction innumerable times.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I was just at Long Beach- most of the dealers I purchased from take credit cards. All were ok with checks
I did notice that several were asking for buyers to use zelle. The downside with zelle is the ridiculously bad internet reception (is that the correct term?)- I had to leave the dealer's table, go to the front of the hall, and stand by the windows to make the internet work long enough to pay the dealer
Most transactions at major coin shows are dealer to dealer, just common knowledge.
Can't wait for the CSNS, it's been a couple of years and this has been my only major show.
Most of the dealers know me so no problems.
I haven't looked at all the posts, but I will say that when you go to a dealers table the first thing he/she will say is "Do you have anything to sell".
Just to throw something else in the mix.
I sold a coin to dealer X for $ and the dealer writes me a check, then I move along to see a coin that is way more expensive I like from another dealer that is $$.
Not having the cash for the $$ coin I went back to the $ dealer to check and see if that dealer would write me a check or give me cash to fund my purchase for the $$ coin and the dealer agrees.
I have done it, the $ dealer wrote a check to the $$ dealer and all was fine.
Congratulations on your first major coin show purchase! A really nice PR67 Mercury dime - the key to the proof Mercury dime set.
Have many happy years putting together a wonderful collection (and don't forget to encourage your son with a collection he can afford)!