Will the coming banking rule of $600 transaction reporting, push the price of silver and gold up?
rec78
Posts: 5,753 ✭✭✭✭✭
I am thinking that the this rule may cause people to take money out of their banking accounts (or not putting their money in banking accounts in the first place) and buy silver and gold and other things to help hide their assets from government accounting, thus increase the demand for precious metals. What do you think? Things that are easily liquidable.
Instead of deposit money in bank-get $600 or more from bank to purchase something(government watching)-it would be - go to coin shop buy bullion silver or gold, when you need to purchase something, go back to coin shop sell bullion for cash (No government accounting).
With this coming law would you rather have money in bank accounts or bullion? Inflation could also play a roll in this decision.
Comments
A proposal isn’t the same thing as a “coming law” or a “banking rule”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
First of all, some states have bullion reporting requirements.
Second of all, only a criminal would do this. You are going to lose bid/ask spread on the bullion just to avoid REPORTING that has no corresponding taxation.
Those who Are worried about the government and inflation may already have all they want in bullion.
Ok, let me shorten the question to "Do you think that this rule (if it becomes law) will cause the price of silver and gold to rise?"
I don't think this has been passed yet. Am I wrong?
Positive BST as a seller: Namvet69, Lordmarcovan, Bigjpst, Soldi, mustanggt, CoinHoader, moursund, SufinxHi, al410, JWP
Will it cause more people to keep PayPal balances?
This Q is better for the PM forum
no you are not wrong, it has not been passed yet.
I just don't see this happening!
Hope your right!!
Positive BST as a seller: Namvet69, Lordmarcovan, Bigjpst, Soldi, mustanggt, CoinHoader, moursund, SufinxHi, al410, JWP
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Just what we need, more IRS agents on the payroll.
Just more government overreach in my opinion.
This proposal is dead in the water.
I'll shorten my answer: "No"
😀
No....if anything, this will have a negative affect on PM's
You and I will not have to report any transactions over $600. I hope that's not what people think. No additional reporting for anyone is being proposed.
Please understand what is being proposed, as it's serious enough, but you and I won't be obligated to report anything. It's to allow the government to look at $600+ transactions in bank accounts, and that, alone, should be reason for concern, and especially so if you are a tax cheat. I presume that Paypal accounts and Investment accounts through securities brokers would be looked at, too, but maybe not.
They have a new law that will take effect starting in Jan 2022 for all payments into your bank account by processors ( Ebay , PayPal , etc ) for transactions after $600 ( per year ) is reached . It's a new reporting requirement and you will receive a 1099 form .
This is a game changer from the current $20,000 AND 200 transactions threshold we have today .
I believe it is effective for transaction starting Jan 1 2022 .
They stuck this into the Covid relief $ legislation last year .
I know that I do not have to report it. The banks will have to report them. With all the more work a bank will have to do to reply with this regulation, I am sure they will find ways to charge you extra fees. Banks are like eBay-They are fee-happy.
No, it would allow the government to look at accounts with transactions (money in and out) that, WHEN ADDED UP, total over $600. There is no lower limit below which individual transactions would be exempt.
One more piece of 💩 that makes me glad I’m old.
I have been told by people who know alot about this that this will not become law.
I sure wish we could watch/investigate the lawmakers as closely as they are wanting to watch/investigate the rest of us.
No
It's unlikely, as the banks hate it. I wouldn't bet against some version of the basic premise, however.
I get my first SS check on this Wednesday - If the Govt wants to check themselves out for putting money into my account then go for it - I have to stop now..................
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Most (all?) of the politicians in office are millionaires and would be subject to the same scrutiny. It’s unlikely to happen in its current form. But it is eventually going to happen, especially if the future is some form of crypto fiat.
I'm hoping not.
This administration needs to find a way to pay for the $ they are dolling out. Anyone remember that little gem in the COVID relief bill where anyone selling more than $600 a year from sites like ebay and Etsy will get a 1099 statement (or whatever it is).
Would it impact precious metal values? It may depend on what other kind of manipulation is happening.
I hesitate to wade into this issue, but what the heck, here are some random thoughts before it gets shut down...
The proposal has possibly passed the House or the Senate. In any case, it has not been signed into law as it has not yet passed both houses, at least not in the same form.
Could it pass as part of a larger bill rammed through Congress? Absolutely!
I can tell you from experience with my state's tax department that you want to stay off the tax authorities' radar if at all possible. That advice has nothing to do with cheating. When it comes to tax issues, you are not innocent until proven guilty - you must essentially prove your "innocence".
P.S. - sure, precious metals might well increase in value.
Show me the text of the law and/or a bill number or it didn't happen.
My answer is no.
A silver shortage, conflicts in the big mining countries, supply chain problems, and the corporations bailing out of the stock market into silver, will make silver and gold rise. Those things are happening right now!
If/when there is a market correction, I would expect PM's to get hit, but I believe after that, it will off to the races.
Buy some now, buy some later. dyodd
It's not a separate bill and is actually part of the $3.5 T {actually closer to $5T) spending bill that congress is currently wrestling with. I think the current inflation and the coming hyperinflation will have far more impact on the price of gold and silver than any reporting requirement.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
IF this is such a fabulous idea, I think it should have a trial run period before the rest of the country is subjected to it.
The "subjects" of the trial run would be:
1) All federal employees - Executive Branch, Legislative branch, and Judicial branch.
2) All state employees -
3) All local government employees
If highly successful, then impose it on everyone.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Indications are that this will not become law.... I worry more about inflation, and that certainly will impact gold and silver. Cheers, RickO
It's not a law until congress makes it a law.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
This provision already has been made law. Starting next year, PayPal will 1099 anyone receiving over $600.
This is a fact. I had a friend years ago that the IRS forced into Bankruptcy because they froze all his assets. It took over a year to clear himself but by the time everything was said and done his business was kaput.
Reference #1
Reference #2
1099-MISC reporting over $600 has been in effect for many years. While it concerns any misc 'income' reporting, and banks, mutual funds, real estate vehicles have been processing this form for years, it has been broadened to now capture the selling of goods and services. Doesn't mean its net income, just proceeds.
Regarding the new reporting of 'aggregate' in/out flows > $600, while it may not become law, banks are already capturing this data. I look at my Chase bank account online and they report to me my monthly flows and Discover and AMEX do this on my annual statement. But these financial institutions will get big lobby money from the rich and state it will be burdon some and effect their bottom line, bulls*$t.
The law makes sense. If my W2 states I make $50,000 and that is all I report, but my Bank states $500,000 went in and out of my bank account, the IRS may want to look further. Now there may be a reasonable explanation, I received an insurance payment for fire and rebuilt my house. But if there is a trend over the years, believe me, you'll have a hard time explaining this extra unreported 'income'. Just MHO.
All true and all consistent with what I said. Prior to this year, paypal was only required to issue 1099s on $20k federally, although some states had $600 requirements. @1peter1223 was referring to that law which had passed and @derryb sparky confused it with the banking law which had only been proposed. I was simply trying to clarify.
To your other point, I really don't care about the new proposal. I figure they know everything in doing anyway. And, contrary to some, my experiences with the IRS have shown them to be reasonable people.
It’s a silly law, if enacted, because the government will have more data than it will know how to process. My fear is that it will be used for punitive enforcement.
Treasury Sec. has stated specifically this is to sniff out tax fraud.
Gov is currently hellbent on spending and taxation.
This is ONE reason Crypto is interesting to certain people, and Wall Street knows this, hence the current spike and ETF approval.
Sorry but politics is intertwined to the OP.
Proposed law changes like this are reasons why people buy and hoard physical gold. If you do buy it , save the receipt in case it goes down in value, and you have to sell lower than you paid. (of course that is highly unlikely in the coming high inflation era).
By the way, this rule applies to bitcoin as well, and that should push a few people into gold. The only advantage of bitcoin is it is semi-annonymous, and can be used like gold for money laundering or criminal enterprises. Uncle Sam is on to the scam, IMHO.
First, this will never get included in any final bill.
Second, in reality, how many transactions does the average American engage in monthly?
Third, I think only people with something to hide need to be concerned.
I could care less if the government wants to know that I spent $3,000 for a vacation reservation.
You should be saving your receipts anyway for the potential of the item's value rising as well as falling. If you don't you could end up paying income taxes on the entire sale amount, not just the gains or losses.
No. Paper prices are manipulated already.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
I think it would take the government quite a while to use the data they would get in any meaningful manner. Sifting through people's rent and mortgage payments, vacations, appliance purchases, medical related etc. will be a big chore. In any case, once some powerful people/politicians start feeling the sting a bit the rules (if enacted as currently proposed) would be relaxed. That's how it usually goes anyway.
This is a very dangerous assumption. There have already been a couple examples posted above to illustrate why.
In my case, my state said I owed tens of thousands of dollars in taxes and penalties, while I said i owed 0.
I had the option of paying many thousands of dollars to a tax lawyer to fight my case, or going it alone. For various reasons I chose to fight it myself. A friend and I spent hundreds of hours learning about tax law and building a case to prove my innocence.
I did win my case, but most people would not have had the resources or patience to fight it, and they just would have broken down and accepted the state's claim.
Anything that gives the authorities a basis - justified or not - to come after you will end up costing you time and most likely money.
Not gonna happen.
Not to mention, the people who you're fighting in court can spend all the money they want. Oh, yeah, you're paying for that, too.
What party is pushing this?
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...