Would you slab these trade dollars?

Ppp

I just picked up an 1876s and 1878s trade dollars. I like them because there are no chop marks.
I believe the 1876s is a ddo type 2/2 Vp-002. The highest grades I would expect are f15 for 1876s and vf20 for 1878s.

Do you think it makes sense to have them graded?
If yes, do you think they will straight grade?

thefinn

It's your money and your decision. If you are just interested in variety attribution and authenticity, then ANACS might be the cheapest way to go.

DNADave

I personally would not if they were mine. I’d have them in a dansco.

Is the reverse of the 76 scratched?

mbogoman

I don't think either would straight grade. The 78 looks cleaned and the 76 has got something weird going on under "GRAINS" on the reverse, like tiny scratches...

291fifth

The problem with Trade Dollars is counterfeiting. Having these authenticated and slabbed by ANACS is probably a good idea as it will keep your cost down and allow you to have authenticated coins.

Ppp

Money to grade them is not the issue.
I do not like detail grade but the ddo for 1876 has me thinking. Yes, there appears to be some marks on the reverse under “grains” for the 1876.

Keshequa

Anacs for authenticity, then break out and put in an album. 78 definitely cleaned and there’s something about the surfaces on the 76 which just don’t look right, but it has been cleaned as well.

Ppp

I am confident they are real. The coins passed the magnet test, the weight was correct, and they passed the sigma test.

gumby1234

They don't look to be counterfeit. The 76S would details grade for graffiti. Both look cleaned.

TomB

The 1878-S is cleaned and the 1876-S appears to have graffiti on the reverse.

Project Numismatics

@Ppp said:
I am confident they are real. The coins passed the magnet test, the weight was correct, and they passed the sigma test.

That’s really no guarantee… I would send in for authentication unless you can trace the provenance 20+ years. The Chinese counterfeits are everywhere. PCGS article on same:

https://www.pcgs.com/news/buying-trade-dollars-without-fear

Edited to add that there are a few documented instances of fake trade dollars making it into genuine TPG holders… Some of the counterfeits have fooled the professionals. Search this forum and others and you will find threads and some of the research on this topic.

DelawareDoons

Both look real, no real reason to slab in mid-circ grades for common dates.

Ppp

Thank you everyone for your comments.
I will not slab the 1878s.

My issue with the 1876s is that it appears to be a ddo and even if it is details grade does being a ddo make it special? Very hard for me to find information on this.
If I didn’t think is was a ddo then I would agree with everyone and not consider grading it.

Are we having fun yet?🙂

golden

Save your money. I don't think either one will straight grade.

HalfDimeDude

No not worth the fee's imho, and agree they looked cleaned, I also will add if one doesnt know how to determine a real Trade Dollar from a fake, then one deserves what they gets.
There are web sites that one can go to learn how to ID a fake.

PerryHall

They look real but they also look cleaned. Save your money.

logger7

Anacs is the best option IMO. At ICG you would probably get two negative judgments, such as "cleaned" and "damaged" with a numerical details grade.

kaz

I think they are genuine, but the 78 looks cleaned and there are a bunch of scratches under GRAINS on the rev of the 76s. agree with ANACS for authenticity. Doubling of the IGWT ribbon tips is often seen and not considered a collectible variety as far as I know.

jesbroken

IMO, get the 76 S authenticated because it is a type 2 obverse and type 2 reverse, which is not easily found. I don't know about the DDO as my source doesn't list that. Good luck. I believe for the expense of an ANACS slab, I would send them both in. JMO
Jim

ricko

If they were mine, I would not slab them. However, if you plan on selling them, then the authentication will help, though not likely to recoup the additional costs. They are good candidates for a Trade Dollar album. Cheers, RickO

WAYNEAS

I would pass on them if I were buying trade dollars.
There is something going on with them but I am not experienced enough to tell what it is.
I will bow to the experts posting here.
Wayne

BillJones

Both are "details" grade pieces in my opinion. Still a genuine Trade Dollar in a "details" grade beats a counterfeit hands down. I think the looking for a cheaper slab company, like ANACS or PCI, would be a reasonable option.

AUandAG

I disagree with the cleaned comments. They are wonderful examples of pocket carried and commerce used dollars. Graffiti under grains looks odd. I would not have them graded, they look great the way they are.
bob

Cougar1978

Yes - PCGS

lkenefic

I think the 1878-S looks cleaned to me by the differences in brightness from the fields to to the periphery... around the stars and edge. The 1876-S doesn't look cleaned but it does have graffiti on the reverse as others have noted. That said, I don't think either will straight grade but if authentication is your only necessity, it may help with your bottom line when you go to sell... whether it's enough to cover slabbing costs is up for debate... I doubt it would... but you'd likely get a faster sale.

AMRC

I slab almost all trade dollars unless they are heavily damaged. Way too many fakes out there.

slider23

You might want to look at the stone above her foot as it may be off. It appears to have pieces missing and the gap between the stone and dress is different. Let me know what anyone thinks. Is this area a problem?
First photo OP
Second photo PCGS VF30
Third photo PCGS AUU58

OP

PCGS VF30 1878 S

PCGS AU58 1878 S

Elcontador

@Keshequa said:
Anacs for authenticity, then break out and put in an album. 78 definitely cleaned and there’s something about the surfaces on the 76 which just don’t look right, but it has been cleaned as well.

This. There are too many good fake Trade Dollars out there. When I was in Vietnam, I bought a really good looking fake. Years later, I showed it to dealers. They thought it was real. All diagnostics checked out. What gave it away was the clunk, instead of ping when it was intentionally dropped on a concrete floor. The metallic content was wrong. If the counterfeiter took the time to get the metallic content correct, I'd bet that coin would be in a first world slab.

Ppp

Slider23: very interesting photos I do know what to say. I assume all pictures are from the same year and are the same variety.

Elcontandor: the coins ring perfectly plus all the diagnostics were perfect. If this is a fake then it is the first time I ever heard someone using the correct 90% silver content, however the pictures “slider23” posted definitely gave me concerned.

I have come to the conclusion I will send the 1876s into pcgs with variety. The education of the results are worth the cost sending it in.

slider23

Your coin appears to be genuine.

Here is the stone on a 78 s, Large S, with the same design.

keoj

The 76-s is not a DDO. pm me and I'll send you an image to compare. Best. Keoj

keoj

76-S DDO. Points of interest... all doubled.

• Left Foot
• Liberty Scroll
• Miss Liberty's chin and thumb

Hope this helps. Keoj

tradedollarnut

That ‘stone’ above her foot is the ocean

Project Numismatics

@Ppp said: If this is a fake then it is the first time I ever heard someone using the correct 90% silver content, however the pictures “slider23” posted definitely gave me concerned.

There are plenty of fake Trades and many other series with correct metallic content. I suggest you study up.

Ppp

Keoj: thank you and yes I know of that ddo you mentioned and I agree this coin is not it. I referenced a ddo variation not from the pcgs site ( yes, I know this forum is pcgs but to me a variation is a variation no matter where it comes from)
1876 S DDO TYPE 2//2 VP-002 T$1 MS
Attribution: VP-002
Diagnostics: Doubling is visible on the right side banner end. (I included a picture of the double in my original post)

J2035: I am humble enough after many years of collecting to know, I don’t know what I don’t know. I just noticed your link in a previous post above, thank you I will read it. I am always learning and this forum has been fun and entertaining. 🙂

kaz

I think the "gap" between the ocean and the leg is the result of die lapping; note the loss of detail on Liberty's right thigh.

DDR

I can't tell from the pics if they are cleaned or not. But if you are going to sell them, definitely get them slabbed. If they are for your own collection and you have no intention of selling, I would not bother with those two.

I do, however, object to this remark:
_ I like them because there are no chop marks._