Believe me, I’m always pulling for people submitting cards to do well and be happy and I will share this upcharge card story. I subbed it not knowing whether it was a 1 or a 2, hoping and thinking 2 had a shot but not wanting to pay more and get a 1 anyway. Plus, it was increasing in value while there - like a lot did. So when it got a two it blew through the value threshold and cost me much more to grade it. But in the end, the card earned a better grade, is worth considerably more than it was (that PSA magic) and so while I didn’t do it on purpose, I submitted it at the wrong tier. So, I’m just like you but also pointing out that objectively, and despite how it may feel, it’s my/our mistake based on the values of the respective cards.
Plus, we needed more cards in the thread:
Before:
After:
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
Nice Mantle, I remember making my wife ride 8 hours round trip one night for me to pick up one of those and the Berra. I foolishly I passed on the Robinson. The Mantle was my very first PSA submission.
1 1 22370938 VERY GOOD 3 1953 Topps 82 Mickey Mantle Card
@Kyser said:
For awhile now I have been considering going BGS only. The PSA stamp has a premium BGS cant touch. But at the end of the day having sub grades, a faster turn around for the price, and no extra charge after submission. Those are all things I will have to consider going forward. That up charge might be the straw. $400 extra dollars for what they THINK might be a $2000 difference in declared vs real value, in a volatile market. If they are going to sale it for me at $12000 pay the fees and insure the transaction that would be one thing. And walk through service did not get me through QA2 any faster than normal. Major bottle neck I assume. Or it took awhile to decide how much to fleece me for.
Wait. So you violate the TOS and it's PSA that did something wrong? Perhaps you'd be happier if PSA had returned the card ungraded?
I feel safe in answering on the OP's behalf and saying that we'd be happier if PSA charged for the service provided instead of taking a percentage of their perceived value of the graded item. You can continue pretending to happy about their greed all you want.
Nope, sorry. I see no greed here. PSA graded a card worth $12000-14000. That was the service provided. The service requested was to grade a card valued under $10000, but no such card was provided, so PSA graded the card that was sent and charged the (minimum) price to grade that card. There is no percentage taken. PSA has three choices if you don't like this one. Two are unacceptable to the submitter and two are unacceptable to PSA. PSA can either return the card ungraded (without saying that it is too high of a grade for the tier because then there are certain cards that can be marketed as "8 or better" based on that data), charge the same rate for all cards, or give the card the maximum grade that fits the tier.
Actually, all three are unacceptable to both parties. PSA gets no benefit from returning valuable cards ungraded because of the above, and to charge the same rate for all cards would likely be somewhere between $100 and $200, which might be great for those submitting their Jordan rookies, but horrible for set builders. Of course going through the entire database and saying "These cards must be submitted at this tier or above." doesn't work because it means that the guy who has a Jordan with a pinhole can't afford to have it authenticated, which means both that he can't sell it and you can't buy a cheap Jordan with a guarantee of authenticity.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to explain my thoughts.
@Kyser said:
For awhile now I have been considering going BGS only. The PSA stamp has a premium BGS cant touch. But at the end of the day having sub grades, a faster turn around for the price, and no extra charge after submission. Those are all things I will have to consider going forward. That up charge might be the straw. $400 extra dollars for what they THINK might be a $2000 difference in declared vs real value, in a volatile market. If they are going to sale it for me at $12000 pay the fees and insure the transaction that would be one thing. And walk through service did not get me through QA2 any faster than normal. Major bottle neck I assume. Or it took awhile to decide how much to fleece me for.
Wait. So you violate the TOS and it's PSA that did something wrong? Perhaps you'd be happier if PSA had returned the card ungraded?
I feel safe in answering on the OP's behalf and saying that we'd be happier if PSA charged for the service provided instead of taking a percentage of their perceived value of the graded item. You can continue pretending to happy about their greed all you want.
Nope, sorry. I see no greed here. PSA graded a card worth $12000-14000.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to explain my thoughts.
Who says that card is worth 12-14K? ONE semi-recent auction? Card prices fluctuate; and to significantly upcharge a customer based on one sale is not really fair.
Some of you may remember me whining about being upcharged for some 2012 Silver Prizms a couple of months ago. I was upcharged to $500 for a Durant which was graded as 10. $500 at that time represented a $10K card. There had, indeed, been another PSA 10 2012 Silver Prizm Durant sold within the previous few weeks for just over $10K. However, when I sold my copy, it went for much less than $10K.
For those of you who love being upcharged, and claim that PSA SHOULD be entitled to 'take their cut', why don't you just send PSA a percentage of all your graded card sales? If you don't already.
@Kyser said:
For awhile now I have been considering going BGS only. The PSA stamp has a premium BGS cant touch. But at the end of the day having sub grades, a faster turn around for the price, and no extra charge after submission. Those are all things I will have to consider going forward. That up charge might be the straw. $400 extra dollars for what they THINK might be a $2000 difference in declared vs real value, in a volatile market. If they are going to sale it for me at $12000 pay the fees and insure the transaction that would be one thing. And walk through service did not get me through QA2 any faster than normal. Major bottle neck I assume. Or it took awhile to decide how much to fleece me for.
Wait. So you violate the TOS and it's PSA that did something wrong? Perhaps you'd be happier if PSA had returned the card ungraded?
I feel safe in answering on the OP's behalf and saying that we'd be happier if PSA charged for the service provided instead of taking a percentage of their perceived value of the graded item. You can continue pretending to happy about their greed all you want.
Nope, sorry. I see no greed here. PSA graded a card worth $12000-14000.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to explain my thoughts.
Who says that card is worth 12-14K? ONE semi-recent auction? Card prices fluctuate; and to significantly upcharge a customer based on one sale is not really fair.
Some of you may remember me whining about being upcharged for some 2012 Silver Prizms a couple of months ago. I was upcharged to $500 for a Durant which was graded as 10. $500 at that time represented a $10K card. There had, indeed, been another PSA 10 2012 Silver Prizm Durant sold within the previous few weeks for just over $10K. However, when I sold my copy, it went for much less than $10K.
For those of you who love being upcharged, and claim that PSA SHOULD be entitled to 'take their cut', why don't you just send PSA a percentage of all your graded card sales? If you don't already.
as much as it pains me to say this, ol bald bull here has a point. (that's a punch out reference, not a jab) as stated above, albeit a much smaller upcharge, my auction only netted a lil over half the price i was upcharged for. i will say however that we are currently in a a very weird spot for anyone, including psa, to accurately predict what a card will go for. honestly sales used in the last 18-24 months should most likely be thrown out. for certain segments. but that there too is impossible to nail down as the money moves so quick these days from base, to ultra, to vintage to prewar now back into modern. there's just no perfect system, imo. either way someones gonna be the pigeon and the other the statue.
@Kyser said:
For awhile now I have been considering going BGS only. The PSA stamp has a premium BGS cant touch. But at the end of the day having sub grades, a faster turn around for the price, and no extra charge after submission. Those are all things I will have to consider going forward. That up charge might be the straw. $400 extra dollars for what they THINK might be a $2000 difference in declared vs real value, in a volatile market. If they are going to sale it for me at $12000 pay the fees and insure the transaction that would be one thing. And walk through service did not get me through QA2 any faster than normal. Major bottle neck I assume. Or it took awhile to decide how much to fleece me for.
Wait. So you violate the TOS and it's PSA that did something wrong? Perhaps you'd be happier if PSA had returned the card ungraded?
I feel safe in answering on the OP's behalf and saying that we'd be happier if PSA charged for the service provided instead of taking a percentage of their perceived value of the graded item. You can continue pretending to happy about their greed all you want.
Nope, sorry. I see no greed here. PSA graded a card worth $12000-14000.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to explain my thoughts.
Who says that card is worth 12-14K? ONE semi-recent auction? Card prices fluctuate; and to significantly upcharge a customer based on one sale is not really fair.
Some of you may remember me whining about being upcharged for some 2012 Silver Prizms a couple of months ago. I was upcharged to $500 for a Durant which was graded as 10. $500 at that time represented a $10K card. There had, indeed, been another PSA 10 2012 Silver Prizm Durant sold within the previous few weeks for just over $10K. However, when I sold my copy, it went for much less than $10K.
For those of you who love being upcharged, and claim that PSA SHOULD be entitled to 'take their cut', why don't you just send PSA a percentage of all your graded card sales? If you don't already.
Speaking in generalities, I think people who “love being upcharged” don’t actually love it; more they understand the card did either better than they expected it to do, or received a grade that results in a very high dollar value.
Speaking in specifics, my Mantle card has lots and lots more sales to go by than any modern numbered (x/10) type of card. My excitement is tied to a card with relatively more stable prices than rare cards that don’t come to market every single day.
So when you express frustration about that, I imagine there is some validity to the complaint but, again, when it’s a card like that which has only one or two similar sales in its history, what else do you suggest going by - as a customer or as PSA?
(This isn’t rhetorical; I don’t know the correct answer and I’d love to hear your thoughts.)
Though, if we’re being honest, isn’t that prior sale the price at the grade going to be the lowest initial asking price any person would use if it’s a straight sale? Then lower it accordingly?
I do try my best to look at things from both sides and I just also try to remind people that not everyone is collecting for the same reason and with the same goals in mind.
Good luck out there; at these current hobby prices for card buying, eBay fees, PayPal fees, postage fees, auction house and grading fees, we sure could ALL use the luck!
Happy collecting!!!
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
I imagine an upcharge isn't very welcomed for anyone grading a card intended for their own personal collection... in which case it would be pretty difficult to recoup a $500 upcharge.
@jeffcbay said:
I imagine an upcharge isn't very welcomed for anyone grading a card intended for their own personal collection... in which case it would be pretty difficult to recoup a $500 upcharge.
i liken it to winning the new car on the price is right. most love the fact of winning $34k kia sorrento. theyre screaming as loud as they can, jumping up and down and just about suffocate bob barker w kungfu grip hugs. what they didn't realize is that they now owe $5k in taxes and transport fees. most end up having to borrow the $5k to get the car released and then end up having to sell the car. its literally all fun and games until it gets real. with all that said and while not story book per say, still come out better in the end.
“help control the pet population. dont forget to spay or neuter your pet”
I suppose PSA could put a box on the submission form which states "check this box if you wish to pay an upcharge on any cards, which after grading, are valued higher than the limit allowed for the level you subbed your cards at. If you don't wish to incur an upcharge on any cards, they will be returned to you ungraded, with a note stating the card doesn't qualify for the service level" Are there really people out there who wouldn't check the box?
@Kepper19 said:
I suppose PSA could put a box on the submission form which states "check this box if you wish to pay an upcharge on any cards, which after grading, are valued higher than the limit allowed for the level you subbed your cards at. If you don't wish to incur an upcharge on any cards, they will be returned to you ungraded, with a note stating the card doesn't qualify for the service level" Are there really people out there who wouldn't check the box?
How about just charging for the service/turnaround time? Like they use to.
I really would like someone to explain why a higher dollar card would be charged more for the same service/turnaround time. And don't say because that's the TOS! Please.
3) We all want it both ways but the simple fact is that - whether stated or not - a high profile card gets a better look from more eyes. Look around for the stories but if someone subs a T206 Wagner or a high grade 52T Mantle, it’s going to get a longer look from important eyes than my 1997 Bowman Chrom Ricky Ledee rookie will. That needs to be paid for by someone. (Us.)
.
SERIOUSLY???? If this is the justification for upcharges, then this blows PSA apart!!! Why would the raw value of a card determine how much attention to detail it would receive??
Are you saying that low dollar raw items that make it into a PSA 10 slab shouldn't be taken too seriously, because they didn't get the same level of attention that a Wagner or Mantle would??
IMHO now that eBay suspended them for Shilling (A fraudulent activity) and that a legal investigation may be in process , Up-charges based on PWCC eBay sales may be tantamount to profiting from PWCC's fraud. Legal or not it's certainly NOT ethical and NOT moral.
BTW: PSA is still listing PWCC eBay Shilled auction prices in their APR's.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
3) We all want it both ways but the simple fact is that - whether stated or not - a high profile card gets a better look from more eyes. Look around for the stories but if someone subs a T206 Wagner or a high grade 52T Mantle, it’s going to get a longer look from important eyes than my 1997 Bowman Chrom Ricky Ledee rookie will. That needs to be paid for by someone. (Us.)
.
SERIOUSLY???? If this is the justification for upcharges, then this blows PSA apart!!! Why would the raw value of a card determine how much attention to detail it would receive??
Are you saying that low dollar raw items that make it into a PSA 10 slab shouldn't be taken too seriously, because they didn't get the same level of attention that a Wagner or Mantle would??
The only additional scrutiny those cards should get is to determine authenticity. At least 1 altered Wagner has slipped through PSA starting with the 0000001.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
3) We all want it both ways but the simple fact is that - whether stated or not - a high profile card gets a better look from more eyes. Look around for the stories but if someone subs a T206 Wagner or a high grade 52T Mantle, it’s going to get a longer look from important eyes than my 1997 Bowman Chrom Ricky Ledee rookie will. That needs to be paid for by someone. (Us.)
.
SERIOUSLY???? If this is the justification for upcharges, then this blows PSA apart!!! Why would the raw value of a card determine how much attention to detail it would receive??
Are you saying that low dollar raw items that make it into a PSA 10 slab shouldn't be taken too seriously, because they didn't get the same level of attention that a Wagner or Mantle would??
Never mind.
I didn’t look closely enough at who I was responding to and was anticipating a more rational discussion.
If we’re starting from a place where you’re shocked by the idea that a card like 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle will get a closer look than a 1988 Donruss common, than I don’t think we should continue.
If that ‘blows up PSA’ for you, that says it all right there.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
@Kepper19 said:
I suppose PSA could put a box on the submission form which states "check this box if you wish to pay an upcharge on any cards, which after grading, are valued higher than the limit allowed for the level you subbed your cards at. If you don't wish to incur an upcharge on any cards, they will be returned to you ungraded, with a note stating the card doesn't qualify for the service level" Are there really people out there who wouldn't check the box?
How about just charging for the service/turnaround time? Like they use to.
I really would like someone to explain why a higher dollar card would be charged more for the same service/turnaround time. And don't say because that's the TOS! Please.
WHY is it the TOS??
Because if PSA damaged my raw, Gem Mint 1988 Donruss Don Mattingly, they could buy an already graded PSA 10 for me and send me back the original and be out a total of 50, no wait, 75 cents.
Same occurrence with a T206 Red Cobb with Ty Cobb back or a minty 52T Mantle and the replacement is harder to find and the cost is much higher.
Plus, in rare cases, lawsuits.
Greater risk translates to higher costs in every business on earth…
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
Why can't we just be happy for him instead of devolving the conversation into a back and forth about service levels? He took a gamble on a raw card, submitted at a service level that 99% would submit at, and received a grade that could net him a significant profit. Congrats Kyser.
@maddux69 said:
Why can't we just be happy for him instead of devolving the conversation into a back and forth about service levels? He took a gamble on a raw card, submitted at a service level that 99% would submit at, and received a grade that could net him a significant profit. Congrats Kyser.
For those of you who love being upcharged, and claim that PSA SHOULD be entitled to 'take their cut', why don't you just send PSA a percentage of all your graded card sales? If you don't already.
I don't think anyone is saying that PSA should 'take their cut', just that people shouldn't send cards in at a service level they don't qualify for.
Let's say you send a bunch of stuff, & get upcharged (a good problem, I agree); however what if you can't afford the upcharges? Will they hold your card{s} until you can pay or send it/them back ungraded
I have to much S**t; so if you working on sets or are a player/team collector, send me your want list, with conditions desired. Keep in mind I have a another job so please allow me a few days to respond.
If you can’t or won’t pay the up charge, they send it back ungraded and charge you for the service level you originally sent it at.
As best I can tell from PSA’s public material, you get three things by paying for an increased service level: faster turnaround, higher coverage if PSA damages your card, and higher insurance on return shipping. I think that these are reasonable, if somewhat debatable, reasons for charging more to grade cards with a higher value.
But PSA upcharges you after they've graded the card, so you do not get the benefit of the service level you are required to pay for in terms of the grading process. And then they expressly say that:
"PSA’s determination that you have understated the Declared Value will affect only the Service Level charge, it will not change the Declared Value for purposes of establishing the maximum item value for claim or shipping insurance purposes."
So you also do not get the benefit of your increased cost for claims or shipping. PSA takes your money and gives you none of the three things provided by the service level they are now ostensibly charging you for, and some of you guys are like:
because you get back a card with a theoretical, unrealized value that they think is higher than what you thought it was.
The terms are designed to encourage paying more upfront, before you know what grade your card will get. And of course there is no corresponding “down charge.” It’s all about increasing the PSA bottom line, which is fine I guess, but I see nothing in this for the customer to be throwing a party about.
@maddux69 said:
Why can't we just be happy for him instead of devolving the conversation into a back and forth about service levels? He took a gamble on a raw card, submitted at a service level that 99% would submit at, and received a grade that could net him a significant profit. Congrats Kyser.
While I feel your pain on the back and forth it was the OP that brought it up and I feel like he had a valid point.
"I had a feeling going in. That if it was a 10 everyone at PSA would have to sign off on it. And I have 0 clout. My first cross over may be in the works. I am still pleased with the service. I do feel the up charge was a bit petty. $600 should have got me $9999 declared the last sale on ebay was 12k I think. Seems a stretch to up charge me $400. On top of that the orange was not in the PSA price report."
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
“As best I can tell from PSA’s public material, you get three things by paying for an increased service level: faster turnaround, higher coverage if PSA damages your card, and higher insurance on return shipping. I think that these are reasonable, if somewhat debatable, reasons for charging more to grade cards with a higher value.“
Much of this is not correct, though. And I think for most people, therein lies the problem. This is not directed at anyone and is a generalization; but if it applies, it applies.
PSA provides an elective service. No one needs baseball cards, and certainly not graded ones. Yet they have built a brand that is successful over a long time, such that their service has an effect of amplifying the value of an item that they have verified. They spell out their terms and you agree to those terms at submission time, including being upcharged.
When you submit cards to them, you are on the honor system and here’s reality:
The customer selects the service level themself based on BOTH the turnaround time desired and the value of the card.
Many people get this step wrong, for a wide variety of reasons. Sometimes it’s unintentional but more often than not, the reality is it is intentional and done to basically cheat the honor system. That’s not my problem and I don’t judge those that do but it most certainly is PSA’s problem and they have to react in some way.
@Kyser said:
I think a 9 is 12-16K, a 10 would be 50-70k I think
Based on his own thoughts, he thought and was hopeful for 9 with an outside shot at ten. So, the service level selected was incorrect from the jump. Now I’m guessing, based on the other details provided, the poster thought it was on the border of 8/9 (hadn’t had much history with seller of card) and there was some legitimate risk but also knew that 9 was going to go through the $9,999 threshold, based on his own value estimate provided, and that ten would really blow through it, and was basically expecting and hoping for an upcharge.
And - full disclosure - I would do it the exact same way in @Kyser’s shoes.
It’s a human system - the evaluation and the submission - and there’s often a lot at stake. It will, therefore, never be perfect - on either end.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
I don't see where we are disagreeing or where you showed that anything I said was incorrect. PSA is a business and can set whatever terms they want. People who submit are doing so electively and have no basis to complain after the fact when PSA follows its rules.
But they should understand that an upcharge results in them getting nothing additional from PSA. The card is graded and PSA has limited its liability to your previously declared value even when they upcharge. The idea that the average submitter can predict whether a card like this is going to get an 8 or a 9 or a 10, all of which would require a different service level, is pure fantasy. The reason PSA structures it that way is so that the average submitter picks a higher service level to start with and over the broad base of submissions they make more money. In PSA's ideal world this card is submitted at Premium 3 because it might get a 10. But PSA is going to get its money no matter what. Which, as I said, is fine, because it's a business and its goal is to make money.
But none of that says anything about what the rules should be. I tend to think that if PSA is going to upcharge you then you should get the benefit of the new declared value decided by PSA (and that they are charging you for) if PSA later damages or loses your card. And I think that because it is impossible to predict with any level of confidence what a card will grade and you have now paid for the cost of that additional service.
For those of you who love being upcharged, and claim that PSA SHOULD be entitled to 'take their cut', why don't you just send PSA a percentage of all your graded card sales? If you don't already.
I don't think anyone is saying that PSA should 'take their cut', just that people shouldn't send cards in at a service level they don't qualify for.
So can you offer an explanation of why PSA charges more for grading higher dollar cards? So far in this thread, there have been two answers:
Higher valued cards get more attention by the grading team; which, if true, would mean that lower valued cards in PSA slabs received inferior scrutiny/attention.
Because the terms of service say so (which is avoiding the question all together)
I'm honestly not trying to be Mr. Contrary here...I'd just like to know the real answer. I subbed cards to PSA on a fairly regular basis from 1999-2010, This tiered level of service did not exist back then. From my perspective, this just feels like greed.
PSA states that the increased grading fees get the customer faster turnaround times, higher coverage if PSA damages your card, and higher insurance on return shipping. The only 'benefit' of these that a customer would receive from a post-grading upcharge would be the insurance on the return. And insuring the card per the customer's declared value seems more than fair to me.
Thanks to almost everyone that has weighed in. My opinion is Daltex is just getting drunk and trolling me. I got 12k hours in Rust go hard or go home kid. I think the rest of y'all are coming from an honest place. And like most of all threads on this forum. Some noob like myself will find it helpful. And Durant is now on a flight to BGS, still in the PSA slab. My first crossover attempt.
“And insuring the card per the customers declared value seems more than fair to me.”
Right. In a customer friendly world the call would be, hey, your card is now worth way more than you thought! You can either pay the up charge and get the benefit of increased protection, or not and we will rely on your previously declared value if something goes wrong in encapsulation or shipping . PSA says instead that you have to pay the up charge to get your card back graded (Or pay at the original service level anyway and have it returned ungraded) and you don’t get the benefit of having paid the up charge in terms of the service they are providing. That is not a very customer friendly stance. Of course, there’s no incentive for PSA to adopt a customer friendly stance when they already can’t keep up with submissions, so if you want to submit you just have to deal with it.
@billwaltonsbeard said:
This longwinded, BS post is just saying 'PSA deserves their cut'. Thanks for sharing
You are welcome. I thought you were asking sincere questions when in reality you just like to whine in the form of a question? Repeatedly. With every post.
To each, their own.
Enjoy!
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
I don't see where we are disagreeing or where you showed that anything I said was incorrect. PSA is a business and can set whatever terms they want. People who submit are doing so electively and have no basis to complain after the fact when PSA follows its rules.
But they should understand that an upcharge results in them getting nothing additional from PSA. The card is graded and PSA has limited its liability to your previously declared value even when they upcharge. The idea that the average submitter can predict whether a card like this is going to get an 8 or a 9 or a 10, all of which would require a different service level, is pure fantasy. The reason PSA structures it that way is so that the average submitter picks a higher service level to start with and over the broad base of submissions they make more money. In PSA's ideal world this card is submitted at Premium 3 because it might get a 10. But PSA is going to get its money no matter what. Which, as I said, is fine, because it's a business and its goal is to make money.
But none of that says anything about what the rules should be. I tend to think that if PSA is going to upcharge you then you should get the benefit of the new declared value decided by PSA (and that they are charging you for) if PSA later damages or loses your card. And I think that because it is impossible to predict with any level of confidence what a card will grade and you have now paid for the cost of that additional service.
We agree on 99% of what we’ve posted, yes. Your initial point left out the aspect that ‘card value’ plays in setting up a submission. It is a major factor and shouldn’t be overlooked or excluded.
Here’s another thing: the longer the card is in the possession of PSA, the greater the risk of loss or damage. PSA also doesn’t want the most valuable cards just sitting around, either, for reasons of liability.
Again, just food for thought.
ETA: and @graygator, I was unaware of the fact that the card’s ‘shipped and insured level’ doesn’t change in the result of an upcharge. That is new information for me; thank you for making me aware.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
@billwaltonsbeard said:
This longwinded, BS post is just saying 'PSA deserves their cut'. Thanks for sharing
You are welcome. I thought you were asking sincere questions when in reality you just like to whine in the form of a question? Repeatedly. With every post.
To each, their own.
Enjoy!
I have asked a sincere question; which you nor anyone else here can really provide a solid answer.
Actually, your claim that PSA devotes more manpower on grading high dollar items; and therefore the submitter should pay more, is very interesting. Your ridiculously extreme example of Wagner/Mantle vs. 88 Donruss commons only proves that you know this practice, if true, would not go over well with most hobbyists. There are obviously many, many items that fall in between those two extremes.
If this were true, PSA should create a 'BCCG'-like service. That way, collectors know what they're getting when the slabs hit the secondary market.
@Kyser said:
Thanks to almost everyone that has weighed in. My opinion is Daltex is just getting drunk and trolling me. I got 12k hours in Rust go hard or go home kid. I think the rest of y'all are coming from an honest place. And like most of all threads on this forum. Some noob like myself will find it helpful. And Durant is now on a flight to BGS, still in the PSA slab. My first crossover attempt.
Great call on seeing what BGS evaluates the Durant! Good Luck!
Good call on a great gamble, of a great player. With the way the modern modern has been exploding it should only continue to go up and he has a real chance to add a couple more titles to his resume before retiring.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
For those of you who love being upcharged, and claim that PSA SHOULD be entitled to 'take their cut', why don't you just send PSA a percentage of all your graded card sales? If you don't already.
I don't think anyone is saying that PSA should 'take their cut', just that people shouldn't send cards in at a service level they don't qualify for.
So can you offer an explanation of why PSA charges more for grading higher dollar cards? So far in this thread, there have been two answers:
Higher valued cards get more attention by the grading team; which, if true, would mean that lower valued cards in PSA slabs received inferior scrutiny/attention.
Because the terms of service say so (which is avoiding the question all together)
I'm honestly not trying to be Mr. Contrary here...I'd just like to know the real answer. I subbed cards to PSA on a fairly regular basis from 1999-2010, This tiered level of service did not exist back then. From my perspective, this just feels like greed.
PSA states that the increased grading fees get the customer faster turnaround times, higher coverage if PSA damages your card, and higher insurance on return shipping. The only 'benefit' of these that a customer would receive from a post-grading upcharge would be the insurance on the return. And insuring the card per the customer's declared value seems more than fair to me.
I don't know, and it really doesn't matter. The fact is that they do, and if you want to submit you need to do it according to their rules. It would be interesting if someone in PSA leadership would come on here and answer, but ultimately they get to make whatever rules they like for any reason or none at all. If you want your cards in PSA holders you need to cooperate.
So I'm saying it is your number 2. I'm also saying until recently you'd better not send your cards to PSA using UPS either, and I don't know the reason for that, either.
@billwaltonsbeard said:
This longwinded, BS post is just saying 'PSA deserves their cut'. Thanks for sharing
You are welcome. I thought you were asking sincere questions when in reality you just like to whine in the form of a question? Repeatedly. With every post.
To each, their own.
Enjoy!
I have asked a sincere question; which you nor anyone else here can really provide a solid answer.
Actually, your claim that PSA devotes more manpower on grading high dollar items; and therefore the submitter should pay more, is very interesting. Your ridiculously extreme example of Wagner/Mantle vs. 88 Donruss commons only proves that you know this practice, if true, would not go over well with most hobbyists. There are obviously many, many items that fall in between those two extremes.
If this were true, PSA should create a 'BCCG'-like service. That way, collectors know what they're getting when the slabs hit the secondary market.
I deal in real, not ideal. There is no ideal world so I don’t do much thinking about it or what goes on there.
By the way, does spelling count when you grade my answers?
Just want to know as I’m trying for D+. That’s not a grade a lot of teachers like to give out.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
@billwaltonsbeard said:
This longwinded, BS post is just saying 'PSA deserves their cut'. Thanks for sharing
You are welcome. I thought you were asking sincere questions when in reality you just like to whine in the form of a question? Repeatedly. With every post.
To each, their own.
Enjoy!
I have asked a sincere question; which you nor anyone else here can really provide a solid answer.
Actually, your claim that PSA devotes more manpower on grading high dollar items; and therefore the submitter should pay more, is very interesting. Your ridiculously extreme example of Wagner/Mantle vs. 88 Donruss commons only proves that you know this practice, if true, would not go over well with most hobbyists. There are obviously many, many items that fall in between those two extremes.
If this were true, PSA should create a 'BCCG'-like service. That way, collectors know what they're getting when the slabs hit the secondary market.
I deal in real, not ideal. There is no ideal world so I don’t do much thinking about it or what goes on there.
By the way, does spelling count when you grade my answers?
Just want to know as I’m trying for D+. That’s not a grade a lot of teachers like to give out.
I can definitely assure you that I also deal in real, not ideal. And accepting something that makes no sense to me just because someone says I should accept it is certainly not real.
And grading your answers? You lost me, my friend. Are you having some sort of meltdown because I used one of your previous answers to prove my point? If so, I'm sorry.
@billwaltonsbeard said:
This longwinded, BS post is just saying 'PSA deserves their cut'. Thanks for sharing
You are welcome. I thought you were asking sincere questions when in reality you just like to whine in the form of a question? Repeatedly. With every post.
To each, their own.
Enjoy!
I have asked a sincere question; which you nor anyone else here can really provide a solid answer.
Actually, your claim that PSA devotes more manpower on grading high dollar items; and therefore the submitter should pay more, is very interesting. Your ridiculously extreme example of Wagner/Mantle vs. 88 Donruss commons only proves that you know this practice, if true, would not go over well with most hobbyists. There are obviously many, many items that fall in between those two extremes.
If this were true, PSA should create a 'BCCG'-like service. That way, collectors know what they're getting when the slabs hit the secondary market.
I deal in real, not ideal. There is no ideal world so I don’t do much thinking about it or what goes on there.
By the way, does spelling count when you grade my answers?
Just want to know as I’m trying for D+. That’s not a grade a lot of teachers like to give out.
I can definitely assure you that I also deal in real, not ideal. And accepting something that makes no sense to me just because someone says I should accept it is certainly not real.
And grading your answers? You lost me, my friend. Are you having some sort of meltdown because I used one of your previous answers to prove my point? If so, I'm sorry.
You are proving something and confirming it more and more with each post. I’m enjoying it, actually.
And, let’s be honest, you’ve been lost since you showed up, not since two posts ago.
😉
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
@billwaltonsbeard said:
This longwinded, BS post is just saying 'PSA deserves their cut'. Thanks for sharing
You are welcome. I thought you were asking sincere questions when in reality you just like to whine in the form of a question? Repeatedly. With every post.
To each, their own.
Enjoy!
I have asked a sincere question; which you nor anyone else here can really provide a solid answer.
Actually, your claim that PSA devotes more manpower on grading high dollar items; and therefore the submitter should pay more, is very interesting. Your ridiculously extreme example of Wagner/Mantle vs. 88 Donruss commons only proves that you know this practice, if true, would not go over well with most hobbyists. There are obviously many, many items that fall in between those two extremes.
If this were true, PSA should create a 'BCCG'-like service. That way, collectors know what they're getting when the slabs hit the secondary market.
I deal in real, not ideal. There is no ideal world so I don’t do much thinking about it or what goes on there.
By the way, does spelling count when you grade my answers?
Just want to know as I’m trying for D+. That’s not a grade a lot of teachers like to give out.
I can definitely assure you that I also deal in real, not ideal. And accepting something that makes no sense to me just because someone says I should accept it is certainly not real.
And grading your answers? You lost me, my friend. Are you having some sort of meltdown because I used one of your previous answers to prove my point? If so, I'm sorry.
You are proving something and confirming it more and more with each post. I’m enjoying it, actually.
And, let’s be honest, you’ve been lost since you showed up, not since two posts ago.
😉
No need for personal attacks. I've been on this board for over a decade, so when exactly are you claiming that I got lost?
@billwaltonsbeard said:
This longwinded, BS post is just saying 'PSA deserves their cut'. Thanks for sharing
You are welcome. I thought you were asking sincere questions when in reality you just like to whine in the form of a question? Repeatedly. With every post.
To each, their own.
Enjoy!
I have asked a sincere question; which you nor anyone else here can really provide a solid answer.
Actually, your claim that PSA devotes more manpower on grading high dollar items; and therefore the submitter should pay more, is very interesting. Your ridiculously extreme example of Wagner/Mantle vs. 88 Donruss commons only proves that you know this practice, if true, would not go over well with most hobbyists. There are obviously many, many items that fall in between those two extremes.
If this were true, PSA should create a 'BCCG'-like service. That way, collectors know what they're getting when the slabs hit the secondary market.
I deal in real, not ideal. There is no ideal world so I don’t do much thinking about it or what goes on there.
By the way, does spelling count when you grade my answers?
Just want to know as I’m trying for D+. That’s not a grade a lot of teachers like to give out.
I can definitely assure you that I also deal in real, not ideal. And accepting something that makes no sense to me just because someone says I should accept it is certainly not real.
And grading your answers? You lost me, my friend. Are you having some sort of meltdown because I used one of your previous answers to prove my point? If so, I'm sorry.
You are proving something and confirming it more and more with each post. I’m enjoying it, actually.
And, let’s be honest, you’ve been lost since you showed up, not since two posts ago.
😉
No need for personal attacks. I've been on this board for over a decade, so when exactly are you claiming that I got lost?
There was no personal attack.
I have lost interest in the back and forth with you at this point - for that, I am sorry but I only come here for cards, not drama. You crave drama so much that you are literally in jail for rudeness and whining and now here you are now whining rudely from your cell.
To what end?
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
The reason they charge a higher amount for higher valued cards is because of the guarantee. If something happens (I.e. they graded a counterfeit card) and they need to reimburse someone charging more for higher dollar cards allows them to make those payouts. Nat Turner talked about it when he was interviewed by Jeremy Lee on his YouTube show.
@billwaltonsbeard said:
This longwinded, BS post is just saying 'PSA deserves their cut'. Thanks for sharing
yes its extremely easy to cattle call your verbiage. in the real world it costs more to service a mercedes than it does a kia, filet is more than ground chuck and insurance is based off value/risk. plus, i hadnt checked in a while, but last time i did, psa was not a non-profit. psa doesnt “deserve” their cut. their entitled to it. dont like it, great. thats your right. shoo then and best of luck. stop whining.
the real kicker here is how in the world can you give someone grief about comc shipping times when they dont tell you how long it will be until AFTER you purchased and request a shipment. your condescending remark was that “it tells you before you check out for the shipping charge”, right? which it does do…AFTER youve already purchased. but this is all fine and well. the absolute ironic part about your argument is that you now, all of a sudden, want to move the goal posts about psa and it’s TOS. hilarious, mr. kettle pot. ill finally point out that you have a link to your comc cards in your signature. so really youre actually just trying to protect your own wallet here and your vast amount of dead inventory listed there bc everyone sees comc for what it is lately. and thats an absolute joke of a mess. sorry youre back on hot dogs.
however w psa and completely unlike comc, its written right there in their terms of service exactly what will transpire PRIOR to subbing the card, shipping it off or before it even gets looked at should your card be deemed a higher value than what it was subbed at.
this is the exact opposite of what happens w/ comc bc they dont tell you it wont be 3 months to ship a card that you purchased a month ago and just let sit in your portal until AFTER youve purchased it and request a shipment. only then does it tell you that you can either pay a ridiculous amount to have it shipped in a proper timeframe OR a reasonable rate and “we’ll get to it when we get to it”. guess what, that’s a comc upcharge BUT just for shipping! certainly not for anything that adds value like a psa upcharge. its easy to see you are only worried about your wallet and screw everybody else, right? hilarious. actually its even more than hilarious. its sad. and old.
and with that, im officially done w you. you just like to argue and conveniently but absurdly change the narrative to fit your particular agenda. whats good for the goose is apparently not good for the gander unless you say so. cant have it both ways, no matter who you argue with. and apparently thats everybody here.
@brad31 said:
The reason they charge a higher amount for higher valued cards is because of the guarantee. If something happens (I.e. they graded a counterfeit card) and they need to reimburse someone charging more for higher dollar cards allows them to make those payouts. Nat Turner talked about it when he was interviewed by Jeremy Lee on his YouTube show.
100%. and there are extra efforts and work involved too. they arent scanning in 1988 nintendo glass joe psa 7s and uploading those scans to the cert verifier for security purposes and customer protection. they are w higher valued cards. this takes extra time and labor along with any additional internal paperwork that may be involved in addition to the great point you just mentioned above.
I'm still curious what if you can't afford the upcharges or need more time to pay; do they give it to you?
I have to much S**t; so if you working on sets or are a player/team collector, send me your want list, with conditions desired. Keep in mind I have a another job so please allow me a few days to respond.
@tonylags said:
I'm still curious what if you can't afford the upcharges or need more time to pay; do they give it to you?
Graygator (michael) answered this for you:
If you can’t or won’t pay the up charge, they send it back ungraded and charge you for the service level you originally sent it at.
That stinks, I would hope they give the person some time depending on the amount. Do you know anyone who this actually happened to? What if & I could imagine someone getting upcharged on an entire order, and the upcharge could be significant.
I have to much S**t; so if you working on sets or are a player/team collector, send me your want list, with conditions desired. Keep in mind I have a another job so please allow me a few days to respond.
2 rules....Never send in a card expecting a 10 (you are allowed to hope) . And always have the funds available to pay for the grading when your cards are graded , and have the funds for any upcharge. "I'm hoping for a high grade , but if it's graded high , how am I going to pay?" You can't have it both ways.
@tonylags said:
I'm still curious what if you can't afford the upcharges or need more time to pay; do they give it to you?
Graygator (michael) answered this for you:
If you can’t or won’t pay the up charge, they send it back ungraded and charge you for the service level you originally sent it at.
(throwing out a scenario, my math on fees will not be exact. just a generalization)
im a little more interested in how much time they give you to come up w said funds. say a collector subs a 100 card bulk sub @ $20/. one of the cards ends up getting a gem @ a $10k valuation, another 3 cards at a $5k valuation and now the sub fee went from $2100 w shipping and insurance to an unexpected $4200 total sub fee. its christmas plus his wife is already busting his poptarts about what he’s spending on his collection already. another $2k simply isnt exactly or immediately feasible at the flick of pen or as easy as the email response requiring approval. whats the timeframe a customer has to approve and then pay said charges? will they hold til his next paycheck, credit card cycle, the divorce or what?
long story short, whats the psa protocol & time limits if someone obviously wants to pay the upcharge but financially just isnt prepared to? are we talking a “two weeks or else” scenario? a payment plan option or what?
i can see this happening with a young collector and some of these modern cards that go for boo-coos, the avg joe collector who stumbles across a mint collection and lands a bunch of vintage 10s or even someone who has inherited a collection and doesnt really know the first thing about subbing but was advised to “not be a fool, you must get the stuff graded first”.
Comments
@Kyser
Believe me, I’m always pulling for people submitting cards to do well and be happy and I will share this upcharge card story. I subbed it not knowing whether it was a 1 or a 2, hoping and thinking 2 had a shot but not wanting to pay more and get a 1 anyway. Plus, it was increasing in value while there - like a lot did. So when it got a two it blew through the value threshold and cost me much more to grade it. But in the end, the card earned a better grade, is worth considerably more than it was (that PSA magic) and so while I didn’t do it on purpose, I submitted it at the wrong tier. So, I’m just like you but also pointing out that objectively, and despite how it may feel, it’s my/our mistake based on the values of the respective cards.
Plus, we needed more cards in the thread:
Before:
After:
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
@1951WheatiesPremium
Nice Mantle, I remember making my wife ride 8 hours round trip one night for me to pick up one of those and the Berra. I foolishly I passed on the Robinson. The Mantle was my very first PSA submission.
1 1 22370938 VERY GOOD 3 1953 Topps 82 Mickey Mantle Card
Nope, sorry. I see no greed here. PSA graded a card worth $12000-14000. That was the service provided. The service requested was to grade a card valued under $10000, but no such card was provided, so PSA graded the card that was sent and charged the (minimum) price to grade that card. There is no percentage taken. PSA has three choices if you don't like this one. Two are unacceptable to the submitter and two are unacceptable to PSA. PSA can either return the card ungraded (without saying that it is too high of a grade for the tier because then there are certain cards that can be marketed as "8 or better" based on that data), charge the same rate for all cards, or give the card the maximum grade that fits the tier.
Actually, all three are unacceptable to both parties. PSA gets no benefit from returning valuable cards ungraded because of the above, and to charge the same rate for all cards would likely be somewhere between $100 and $200, which might be great for those submitting their Jordan rookies, but horrible for set builders. Of course going through the entire database and saying "These cards must be submitted at this tier or above." doesn't work because it means that the guy who has a Jordan with a pinhole can't afford to have it authenticated, which means both that he can't sell it and you can't buy a cheap Jordan with a guarantee of authenticity.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to explain my thoughts.
I think what everyone means is, congrats on the $9000 profit!
Who says that card is worth 12-14K? ONE semi-recent auction? Card prices fluctuate; and to significantly upcharge a customer based on one sale is not really fair.
Some of you may remember me whining about being upcharged for some 2012 Silver Prizms a couple of months ago. I was upcharged to $500 for a Durant which was graded as 10. $500 at that time represented a $10K card. There had, indeed, been another PSA 10 2012 Silver Prizm Durant sold within the previous few weeks for just over $10K. However, when I sold my copy, it went for much less than $10K.
For those of you who love being upcharged, and claim that PSA SHOULD be entitled to 'take their cut', why don't you just send PSA a percentage of all your graded card sales? If you don't already.
as much as it pains me to say this, ol bald bull here has a point. (that's a punch out reference, not a jab) as stated above, albeit a much smaller upcharge, my auction only netted a lil over half the price i was upcharged for. i will say however that we are currently in a a very weird spot for anyone, including psa, to accurately predict what a card will go for. honestly sales used in the last 18-24 months should most likely be thrown out. for certain segments. but that there too is impossible to nail down as the money moves so quick these days from base, to ultra, to vintage to prewar now back into modern. there's just no perfect system, imo. either way someones gonna be the pigeon and the other the statue.
Speaking in generalities, I think people who “love being upcharged” don’t actually love it; more they understand the card did either better than they expected it to do, or received a grade that results in a very high dollar value.
Speaking in specifics, my Mantle card has lots and lots more sales to go by than any modern numbered (x/10) type of card. My excitement is tied to a card with relatively more stable prices than rare cards that don’t come to market every single day.
So when you express frustration about that, I imagine there is some validity to the complaint but, again, when it’s a card like that which has only one or two similar sales in its history, what else do you suggest going by - as a customer or as PSA?
(This isn’t rhetorical; I don’t know the correct answer and I’d love to hear your thoughts.)
Though, if we’re being honest, isn’t that prior sale the price at the grade going to be the lowest initial asking price any person would use if it’s a straight sale? Then lower it accordingly?
I do try my best to look at things from both sides and I just also try to remind people that not everyone is collecting for the same reason and with the same goals in mind.
Good luck out there; at these current hobby prices for card buying, eBay fees, PayPal fees, postage fees, auction house and grading fees, we sure could ALL use the luck!
Happy collecting!!!
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
I imagine an upcharge isn't very welcomed for anyone grading a card intended for their own personal collection... in which case it would be pretty difficult to recoup a $500 upcharge.
i liken it to winning the new car on the price is right. most love the fact of winning $34k kia sorrento. theyre screaming as loud as they can, jumping up and down and just about suffocate bob barker w kungfu grip hugs. what they didn't realize is that they now owe $5k in taxes and transport fees. most end up having to borrow the $5k to get the car released and then end up having to sell the car. its literally all fun and games until it gets real. with all that said and while not story book per say, still come out better in the end.
“help control the pet population. dont forget to spay or neuter your pet”
I suppose PSA could put a box on the submission form which states "check this box if you wish to pay an upcharge on any cards, which after grading, are valued higher than the limit allowed for the level you subbed your cards at. If you don't wish to incur an upcharge on any cards, they will be returned to you ungraded, with a note stating the card doesn't qualify for the service level" Are there really people out there who wouldn't check the box?
How about just charging for the service/turnaround time? Like they use to.
I really would like someone to explain why a higher dollar card would be charged more for the same service/turnaround time. And don't say because that's the TOS! Please.
WHY is it the TOS??
SERIOUSLY???? If this is the justification for upcharges, then this blows PSA apart!!! Why would the raw value of a card determine how much attention to detail it would receive??
Are you saying that low dollar raw items that make it into a PSA 10 slab shouldn't be taken too seriously, because they didn't get the same level of attention that a Wagner or Mantle would??
IMHO now that eBay suspended them for Shilling (A fraudulent activity) and that a legal investigation may be in process , Up-charges based on PWCC eBay sales may be tantamount to profiting from PWCC's fraud. Legal or not it's certainly NOT ethical and NOT moral.
BTW: PSA is still listing PWCC eBay Shilled auction prices in their APR's.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
The only additional scrutiny those cards should get is to determine authenticity. At least 1 altered Wagner has slipped through PSA starting with the 0000001.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Never mind.
I didn’t look closely enough at who I was responding to and was anticipating a more rational discussion.
If we’re starting from a place where you’re shocked by the idea that a card like 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle will get a closer look than a 1988 Donruss common, than I don’t think we should continue.
If that ‘blows up PSA’ for you, that says it all right there.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Because if PSA damaged my raw, Gem Mint 1988 Donruss Don Mattingly, they could buy an already graded PSA 10 for me and send me back the original and be out a total of 50, no wait, 75 cents.
Same occurrence with a T206 Red Cobb with Ty Cobb back or a minty 52T Mantle and the replacement is harder to find and the cost is much higher.
Plus, in rare cases, lawsuits.
Greater risk translates to higher costs in every business on earth…
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Why can't we just be happy for him instead of devolving the conversation into a back and forth about service levels? He took a gamble on a raw card, submitted at a service level that 99% would submit at, and received a grade that could net him a significant profit. Congrats Kyser.
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Greg Maddux #1 Master SetGreg Maddux #2 Basic Set
Jason,
I did congratulate @Kyser
Sometimes, it’s hard for me to resist the urge to help someone asking questions or seeking clarity but I always try to be respectful.
But you are 100% right, so I’ll stop.
Tim
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
@1951WheatiesPremium I wasn't speaking to you by any means, just in general. Take care bud and love the 53!
eBay Store
Greg Maddux #1 Master SetGreg Maddux #2 Basic Set
I don't think anyone is saying that PSA should 'take their cut', just that people shouldn't send cards in at a service level they don't qualify for.
Here's a I'm curious kind of question
Let's say you send a bunch of stuff, & get upcharged (a good problem, I agree); however what if you can't afford the upcharges? Will they hold your card{s} until you can pay or send it/them back ungraded
I have to much S**t; so if you working on sets or are a player/team collector, send me your want list, with conditions desired. Keep in mind I have a another job so please allow me a few days to respond.
If you can’t or won’t pay the up charge, they send it back ungraded and charge you for the service level you originally sent it at.
As best I can tell from PSA’s public material, you get three things by paying for an increased service level: faster turnaround, higher coverage if PSA damages your card, and higher insurance on return shipping. I think that these are reasonable, if somewhat debatable, reasons for charging more to grade cards with a higher value.
But PSA upcharges you after they've graded the card, so you do not get the benefit of the service level you are required to pay for in terms of the grading process. And then they expressly say that:
"PSA’s determination that you have understated the Declared Value will affect only the Service Level charge, it will not change the Declared Value for purposes of establishing the maximum item value for claim or shipping insurance purposes."
So you also do not get the benefit of your increased cost for claims or shipping. PSA takes your money and gives you none of the three things provided by the service level they are now ostensibly charging you for, and some of you guys are like:
because you get back a card with a theoretical, unrealized value that they think is higher than what you thought it was.
The terms are designed to encourage paying more upfront, before you know what grade your card will get. And of course there is no corresponding “down charge.” It’s all about increasing the PSA bottom line, which is fine I guess, but I see nothing in this for the customer to be throwing a party about.
While I feel your pain on the back and forth it was the OP that brought it up and I feel like he had a valid point.
"I had a feeling going in. That if it was a 10 everyone at PSA would have to sign off on it. And I have 0 clout. My first cross over may be in the works. I am still pleased with the service. I do feel the up charge was a bit petty. $600 should have got me $9999 declared the last sale on ebay was 12k I think. Seems a stretch to up charge me $400. On top of that the orange was not in the PSA price report."
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
@graygator
You said:
“As best I can tell from PSA’s public material, you get three things by paying for an increased service level: faster turnaround, higher coverage if PSA damages your card, and higher insurance on return shipping. I think that these are reasonable, if somewhat debatable, reasons for charging more to grade cards with a higher value.“
Much of this is not correct, though. And I think for most people, therein lies the problem. This is not directed at anyone and is a generalization; but if it applies, it applies.
PSA provides an elective service. No one needs baseball cards, and certainly not graded ones. Yet they have built a brand that is successful over a long time, such that their service has an effect of amplifying the value of an item that they have verified. They spell out their terms and you agree to those terms at submission time, including being upcharged.
When you submit cards to them, you are on the honor system and here’s reality:
The customer selects the service level themself based on BOTH the turnaround time desired and the value of the card.
Many people get this step wrong, for a wide variety of reasons. Sometimes it’s unintentional but more often than not, the reality is it is intentional and done to basically cheat the honor system. That’s not my problem and I don’t judge those that do but it most certainly is PSA’s problem and they have to react in some way.
Based on his own thoughts, he thought and was hopeful for 9 with an outside shot at ten. So, the service level selected was incorrect from the jump. Now I’m guessing, based on the other details provided, the poster thought it was on the border of 8/9 (hadn’t had much history with seller of card) and there was some legitimate risk but also knew that 9 was going to go through the $9,999 threshold, based on his own value estimate provided, and that ten would really blow through it, and was basically expecting and hoping for an upcharge.
And - full disclosure - I would do it the exact same way in @Kyser’s shoes.
It’s a human system - the evaluation and the submission - and there’s often a lot at stake. It will, therefore, never be perfect - on either end.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
This longwinded, BS post is just saying 'PSA deserves their cut'. Thanks for sharing
@1951WheatiesPremium
I don't see where we are disagreeing or where you showed that anything I said was incorrect. PSA is a business and can set whatever terms they want. People who submit are doing so electively and have no basis to complain after the fact when PSA follows its rules.
But they should understand that an upcharge results in them getting nothing additional from PSA. The card is graded and PSA has limited its liability to your previously declared value even when they upcharge. The idea that the average submitter can predict whether a card like this is going to get an 8 or a 9 or a 10, all of which would require a different service level, is pure fantasy. The reason PSA structures it that way is so that the average submitter picks a higher service level to start with and over the broad base of submissions they make more money. In PSA's ideal world this card is submitted at Premium 3 because it might get a 10. But PSA is going to get its money no matter what. Which, as I said, is fine, because it's a business and its goal is to make money.
But none of that says anything about what the rules should be. I tend to think that if PSA is going to upcharge you then you should get the benefit of the new declared value decided by PSA (and that they are charging you for) if PSA later damages or loses your card. And I think that because it is impossible to predict with any level of confidence what a card will grade and you have now paid for the cost of that additional service.
So can you offer an explanation of why PSA charges more for grading higher dollar cards? So far in this thread, there have been two answers:
I'm honestly not trying to be Mr. Contrary here...I'd just like to know the real answer. I subbed cards to PSA on a fairly regular basis from 1999-2010, This tiered level of service did not exist back then. From my perspective, this just feels like greed.
PSA states that the increased grading fees get the customer faster turnaround times, higher coverage if PSA damages your card, and higher insurance on return shipping. The only 'benefit' of these that a customer would receive from a post-grading upcharge would be the insurance on the return. And insuring the card per the customer's declared value seems more than fair to me.
Thanks to almost everyone that has weighed in. My opinion is Daltex is just getting drunk and trolling me. I got 12k hours in Rust go hard or go home kid. I think the rest of y'all are coming from an honest place. And like most of all threads on this forum. Some noob like myself will find it helpful. And Durant is now on a flight to BGS, still in the PSA slab. My first crossover attempt.
“And insuring the card per the customers declared value seems more than fair to me.”
Right. In a customer friendly world the call would be, hey, your card is now worth way more than you thought! You can either pay the up charge and get the benefit of increased protection, or not and we will rely on your previously declared value if something goes wrong in encapsulation or shipping . PSA says instead that you have to pay the up charge to get your card back graded (Or pay at the original service level anyway and have it returned ungraded) and you don’t get the benefit of having paid the up charge in terms of the service they are providing. That is not a very customer friendly stance. Of course, there’s no incentive for PSA to adopt a customer friendly stance when they already can’t keep up with submissions, so if you want to submit you just have to deal with it.
You are welcome. I thought you were asking sincere questions when in reality you just like to whine in the form of a question? Repeatedly. With every post.
To each, their own.
Enjoy!
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
We agree on 99% of what we’ve posted, yes. Your initial point left out the aspect that ‘card value’ plays in setting up a submission. It is a major factor and shouldn’t be overlooked or excluded.
Here’s another thing: the longer the card is in the possession of PSA, the greater the risk of loss or damage. PSA also doesn’t want the most valuable cards just sitting around, either, for reasons of liability.
Again, just food for thought.
ETA: and @graygator, I was unaware of the fact that the card’s ‘shipped and insured level’ doesn’t change in the result of an upcharge. That is new information for me; thank you for making me aware.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
I have asked a sincere question; which you nor anyone else here can really provide a solid answer.
Actually, your claim that PSA devotes more manpower on grading high dollar items; and therefore the submitter should pay more, is very interesting. Your ridiculously extreme example of Wagner/Mantle vs. 88 Donruss commons only proves that you know this practice, if true, would not go over well with most hobbyists. There are obviously many, many items that fall in between those two extremes.
If this were true, PSA should create a 'BCCG'-like service. That way, collectors know what they're getting when the slabs hit the secondary market.
Great call on seeing what BGS evaluates the Durant! Good Luck!
Good call on a great gamble, of a great player. With the way the modern modern has been exploding it should only continue to go up and he has a real chance to add a couple more titles to his resume before retiring.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
I don't know, and it really doesn't matter. The fact is that they do, and if you want to submit you need to do it according to their rules. It would be interesting if someone in PSA leadership would come on here and answer, but ultimately they get to make whatever rules they like for any reason or none at all. If you want your cards in PSA holders you need to cooperate.
So I'm saying it is your number 2. I'm also saying until recently you'd better not send your cards to PSA using UPS either, and I don't know the reason for that, either.
I deal in real, not ideal. There is no ideal world so I don’t do much thinking about it or what goes on there.
By the way, does spelling count when you grade my answers?
Just want to know as I’m trying for D+. That’s not a grade a lot of teachers like to give out.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
I submit all my cards at the PSA 8 value of the card. If I get a higher grade and PSA decides to upcharge then that is perfectly fine with me.
PSA turned a $2,400 into a ~$12,000 one. Personally, that is what I would be focused on.
Good luck with your crossover to BGS.
Robb
I can definitely assure you that I also deal in real, not ideal. And accepting something that makes no sense to me just because someone says I should accept it is certainly not real.
And grading your answers? You lost me, my friend. Are you having some sort of meltdown because I used one of your previous answers to prove my point? If so, I'm sorry.
You are proving something and confirming it more and more with each post. I’m enjoying it, actually.
And, let’s be honest, you’ve been lost since you showed up, not since two posts ago.
😉
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
No need for personal attacks. I've been on this board for over a decade, so when exactly are you claiming that I got lost?
There was no personal attack.
I have lost interest in the back and forth with you at this point - for that, I am sorry but I only come here for cards, not drama. You crave drama so much that you are literally in jail for rudeness and whining and now here you are now whining rudely from your cell.
To what end?
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
The reason they charge a higher amount for higher valued cards is because of the guarantee. If something happens (I.e. they graded a counterfeit card) and they need to reimburse someone charging more for higher dollar cards allows them to make those payouts. Nat Turner talked about it when he was interviewed by Jeremy Lee on his YouTube show.
yes its extremely easy to cattle call your verbiage. in the real world it costs more to service a mercedes than it does a kia, filet is more than ground chuck and insurance is based off value/risk. plus, i hadnt checked in a while, but last time i did, psa was not a non-profit. psa doesnt “deserve” their cut. their entitled to it. dont like it, great. thats your right. shoo then and best of luck. stop whining.
the real kicker here is how in the world can you give someone grief about comc shipping times when they dont tell you how long it will be until AFTER you purchased and request a shipment. your condescending remark was that “it tells you before you check out for the shipping charge”, right? which it does do…AFTER youve already purchased. but this is all fine and well. the absolute ironic part about your argument is that you now, all of a sudden, want to move the goal posts about psa and it’s TOS. hilarious, mr. kettle pot. ill finally point out that you have a link to your comc cards in your signature. so really youre actually just trying to protect your own wallet here and your vast amount of dead inventory listed there bc everyone sees comc for what it is lately. and thats an absolute joke of a mess. sorry youre back on hot dogs.
however w psa and completely unlike comc, its written right there in their terms of service exactly what will transpire PRIOR to subbing the card, shipping it off or before it even gets looked at should your card be deemed a higher value than what it was subbed at.
this is the exact opposite of what happens w/ comc bc they dont tell you it wont be 3 months to ship a card that you purchased a month ago and just let sit in your portal until AFTER youve purchased it and request a shipment. only then does it tell you that you can either pay a ridiculous amount to have it shipped in a proper timeframe OR a reasonable rate and “we’ll get to it when we get to it”. guess what, that’s a comc upcharge BUT just for shipping! certainly not for anything that adds value like a psa upcharge. its easy to see you are only worried about your wallet and screw everybody else, right? hilarious. actually its even more than hilarious. its sad. and old.
and with that, im officially done w you. you just like to argue and conveniently but absurdly change the narrative to fit your particular agenda. whats good for the goose is apparently not good for the gander unless you say so. cant have it both ways, no matter who you argue with. and apparently thats everybody here.
fin.
100%. and there are extra efforts and work involved too. they arent scanning in 1988 nintendo glass joe psa 7s and uploading those scans to the cert verifier for security purposes and customer protection. they are w higher valued cards. this takes extra time and labor along with any additional internal paperwork that may be involved in addition to the great point you just mentioned above.
I'm still curious what if you can't afford the upcharges or need more time to pay; do they give it to you?
I have to much S**t; so if you working on sets or are a player/team collector, send me your want list, with conditions desired. Keep in mind I have a another job so please allow me a few days to respond.
this is a great question. @AFLfan
Graygator (michael) answered this for you:
If you can’t or won’t pay the up charge, they send it back ungraded and charge you for the service level you originally sent it at.
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
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Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, Dwight Evans, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
That stinks, I would hope they give the person some time depending on the amount. Do you know anyone who this actually happened to? What if & I could imagine someone getting upcharged on an entire order, and the upcharge could be significant.
I have to much S**t; so if you working on sets or are a player/team collector, send me your want list, with conditions desired. Keep in mind I have a another job so please allow me a few days to respond.
2 rules....Never send in a card expecting a 10 (you are allowed to hope) . And always have the funds available to pay for the grading when your cards are graded , and have the funds for any upcharge. "I'm hoping for a high grade , but if it's graded high , how am I going to pay?" You can't have it both ways.
(throwing out a scenario, my math on fees will not be exact. just a generalization)
im a little more interested in how much time they give you to come up w said funds. say a collector subs a 100 card bulk sub @ $20/. one of the cards ends up getting a gem @ a $10k valuation, another 3 cards at a $5k valuation and now the sub fee went from $2100 w shipping and insurance to an unexpected $4200 total sub fee. its christmas plus his wife is already busting his poptarts about what he’s spending on his collection already. another $2k simply isnt exactly or immediately feasible at the flick of pen or as easy as the email response requiring approval. whats the timeframe a customer has to approve and then pay said charges? will they hold til his next paycheck, credit card cycle, the divorce or what?
long story short, whats the psa protocol & time limits if someone obviously wants to pay the upcharge but financially just isnt prepared to? are we talking a “two weeks or else” scenario? a payment plan option or what?
i can see this happening with a young collector and some of these modern cards that go for boo-coos, the avg joe collector who stumbles across a mint collection and lands a bunch of vintage 10s or even someone who has inherited a collection and doesnt really know the first thing about subbing but was advised to “not be a fool, you must get the stuff graded first”.
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