Options
How much will the Pogue 1804 dollar in PCGS PR68 sell for?
Zoins
Posts: 33,912 ✭✭✭✭✭
The top pop Pogue 1804 dollar is up for auction and it's already over $3 million.
Any guesses on where it will end up?
How will it compare with other top coins like the 1933 DE, 1794 Specimen dollar and the Partrick Brasher?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beB0-1LsJ683
Comments
Don't know. Being the finest known adds much to its value, I'll guess between 8 and 12 million.
My random guess, excluding buyer’s premium, is $9.2 million.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
6.8 million without buyers premium
Positive BST as a seller: Namvet69, Lordmarcovan, Bigjpst, Soldi, mustanggt, CoinHoader, moursund, SufinxHi, al410, JWP
I will guess 11.1 million.... Just based on rarity/condition and these strange times. Cheers, RickO
7,320,000
8M hammer
I guess I’m more interested in who will win it than the price after considering the 33 double eagle sale went to a unknown buyer.
I will guess a $5.5 million hammer for a total of $6.6 million.
With there having been 4 different examples of the original variety and 1 restrike offered at auction in the last 3 years, I think it likely diluted the demand compared to when this same coin was offered in 2016.
Back then it hit a $9m legitimate hammer according to Stack's Bowers before Pogue bought it back as noted in this May 2016 press release.
https://stacksbowers.com/News/Pages/PressReleases.aspx?ArticleID=Pogue-IV-Sale-Passed-16-Million
"A world record sum of $9,000,000 was bid from the phone for the finest known 1804 dollar, which, inclusive of the buyer’s premium, would have equated to a $10,575,000 price realized"
They noted that the 1822 Half Eagle had a real bid at $7,285,000 total before it was also bought back in the same sale. It recently brought more than a million higher at $8.4 million, but I will be suprised if this 1804 gets close to or over its previous offer.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
I’d love to see $14M for purely personal reasons.
Definitely agree.
Rising tides lift all boats
Whatever was bid in the initial attempted sales of the 1822 $5 and the 1804 $1 is irrelevant. The bids were more than sufficiently mishandled the last time around to raise doubts about any one bid on this coin being "sincere".
FWIW I, more than once, "rigged a bidding war" in that I had two floor bidders hesitantly run each other up from a low opening until my unpublished reserve was the next bid. It creates the appearance of "traction". It's the diametric opposite of what might have been the last documented use of "shock and awe".
ROFLMAO, nowadays it could just be the result of internet latency.
1804 $1 - more than half the 1933 $20, double the Paquet.
I can understand why TDN or those who own (among) the most expensive coins have this sentiment.
The price (higher or lower than expected) has no bearing on the coins the overwhelming majority of collectors own, including by members of this forum.
Coins and exonumia I buy have been going up!
Exonumia has been going through the roof and expressed by many people here.
I hear there's major NFT money behind one bidder
Another potential buyer has a plan that involves downgrading it two points and giving it a bean. The shipping and insurance costs could make or break that particular "concept". But not politics.... Nooo waaaay...........
I once suggested to Mr Albanese that he have stickers for "kosher" coins that were simply technically over-graded.
"I'll pay fair market for this at one point less than the cert grade!"
In the ensuing embarrassed silence, I interjected "Soooo.... Lunch is on me today"
8.5m
$8,235,647 give or take a dollar.
Why does the 1804 silver dollar look so much lighter in the PCGS/Pogue slab than in the enlarged PCGS. com photo?
I've wondered about this too. My guess is that part of the brand appeal of CAC arises from its simplicity, and doing this would dilute that.
As for the 1804, the question is whether or not there is a reserve.
True, but how is this dependent upon the price of an 1804 dollar or any coin like it?
With my budget and value of my collection, if I wanted a bust dollar badly enough, I could buy one. But if I did, it would likely be in the XF to mid AU grade range and in a price range of roughly $5,000 to $10,000.
I don't see that the price performance of an 1804 dollar has much if any impact even on most bust dollars. It's already a series that the overwhelming majority of US collectors find among the most appealing, for good reason.
Brent's gone. The sentiment that might have muddled the earlier kerfluffle won't be a factor this time.
PM sent
Can I guess PF66 money
10.1m counting Juice
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I graded the KOS coin raw 64+ when Adm. Untermann first tried to sell the set in 1984.
Hey Rick. I see your serving time. How many days in the clink? When are visiting hours? I'll bake you a blueberry pie
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I would take the 1861 Paquet all day every day especially at a discount. I dream of an S mint example in choice XF
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Heather has a droll sense of humor. My last warning included a rather pointed reference to a line about checking out of the "Hotel California"
Why the PM? Enquiring minds want to know!
That’s an ugly looking coin. Maybe 100-150 dollars at best
I think there's a relationship. I think people are willing to may more for low coins when they see the market going up.
If the top coins are not going up, it gives the feeling that the market is stagnating and not growing.
Good luck
A Gallery Mint replica is in that price range.
I was sharing with an old friend a tidbit expressing an opinion that would surely get me banned if expressed in public in the manner I so pungently chose. I hope that was sufficiently non-specific You may have been trolled
I’m going to guess $7.2mm with the juice !
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
If it goes over 9 mil. Well, I guess it could.
$8,600,000 hammer.
I might bid $8,800,000. But if I was so lucky I would be homeless to cover the tab. Maybe a reverse mortgage?
You only live once!
Total WAG ... but I'll say she hammers at 9.2M ... and if I had that kind of capital to spend on a coin, I might consider it.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Sufficiently mishandled? Is there a degree to proper mishandling?
My guess is $8.6 million after juice.
Lance.
$9,750,000
It's certainly a legendary coin. I'd like to see it go for over $10 million but I think $7 million is more realistic.
My guess: $8-$10 million all in
It's at $4.4 million up, up from $3.8 million. Nice to see the bidding!
Given that the King of Siam Dollar is owned by Tyrant, is this the only other opportunity to own the King of Coins provenanced to a King?
Higher exposure compensation level on the camera.
Also light is diffused differently on the coin in a full slab photo vs Trueview of a raw coin
It's pretty amazing that this coin has only been auctioned twice before, in the 1917 and in 1999:
Ref: https://www.cowboysindians.com/2016/05/auction-the-most-coveted-american-coins/
Here's some cell phone shots I took of it at ANA. It's very original but dark unless under direct light.
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
I do wish someone would list the real grades of these darn things. I haven’t seen them all but based upon conversations and personal observations, this is my wag:
Pogue-watters:: 65-
King of Siam: 64+
Dexter 64-
Eliasberg-Mickley 63+
Reed:63
Hansen: 61-
Smithsonian: 58
Cohan - ANA 30