The United States Mint Will conduct an Auction of Type 1 and Type 2 Bullion American Eagles...

cagcrisp

Later this year, in celebration of both the end of an era and the opening of a new chapter, the United States Mint is planning a public auction of very limited 2021 American Eagles at Dusk and at Dawn 35th Anniversary four-coin sets of AE bullion.

All of the bullion products reserved for the sets were personally struck by Mint Director David J. Ryder at the Mint’s West Point, NY production facility.

Each set will include certificates of authenticity bearing the Director’s original signature.

Five hundred of the new gold coins will be paired with 500 of those with the original gold design, and placed with 500 redesigned silver coins paired with 500 coins of the original silver design to form 500 extraordinarily unique four-coin sets.

CaptHenway

Hoo Boy!

cagcrisp

I have suggested that the only fair way to offer Hot Items is an auction.

My preference would be a Dutch Auction like the United States Treasury does on a weekly basis for Treasury securites.

You take the Combined Highest bids (in this case 500) and then you average the 500 bids. Everyone pays the same price. You don't pay the Highest of the 500, you don't pay the Lowest of the 500. Everyone pays the Average of the Highest 500...

JimTyler

Good for them bad for me. I won’t go into battle for these, then what ? Anyone I might sell it to could have out bid me so no one is left except the clueless eBay buyers and I don’t do eBay anymore.

CaptHenway

Interesting concept, but multiple fat kats might bid $25,000 or $50,000 to guarantee that they get one, expecting it to get averaged down, thereby dragging the average up for everybody else.

cheezhed

And when the site crashes entering your nuclear bid?

JBK

This has disaster written all over it.

Mgarmy

https://www.coinnews.net/2021/07/23/u-s-mint-to-offer-design-pairings-of-2021-american-eagle-bullion-coins/

TurtleCat

I’m glad I exited the US Mint coin program roundabout. So many headaches now in trying to keep up. Good luck to those who choose to participate.

jmlanzaf

@cagcrisp said:
I have suggested that the only fair way to offer Hot Items is an auction.

My preference would be a Dutch Auction like the United States Treasury does on a weekly basis for Treasury securites.

You take the Combined Highest bids (in this case 500) and then you average the 500 bids. Everyone pays the same price. You don't pay the Highest of the 500, you don't pay the Lowest of the 500. Everyone pays the Average of the Highest 500...

Yup, I have no problem with them doing this for the initial release of just about anything.

jmlanzaf

@JimTyler said:
Good for them bad for me. I won’t go into battle for these, then what ? Anyone I might sell it to could have out bid me so no one is left except the clueless eBay buyers and I don’t do eBay anymore.

Well, if you wanted one to own, this would be good for you.

The whole point of an auction is to eliminate most flippers. The only people left will be the people who grade them before resale.

MsMorrisine

$&&(((*$^%&&$^%$&&$^&^^% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ctf_error_coins

@jmlanzaf said:

@JimTyler said:
Good for them bad for me. I won’t go into battle for these, then what ? Anyone I might sell it to could have out bid me so no one is left except the clueless eBay buyers and I don’t do eBay anymore.

Well, if you wanted one to own, this would be good for you.

The whole point of an auction is to eliminate most flippers. The only people left will be the people who grade them before resale.

I bet it will be mostly flippers.

messydesk

MsMorrisine

Actually the auction Idea I can live with.

it's the label collectors that will be hurt with only 500 sets available. That's my major malfunction.

messydesk

Maybe mark the dies for these so that there's a more meaningful difference than just paperwork and packaging.

derryb

I've lost count of the different 2021 ASE variety labels. Someone please list them all.

MetroD

@messydesk said:
Maybe mark the dies for these so that there's a more meaningful difference than just paperwork and packaging.

Like the idea.

However, not sure it is possible. The article that @Mgarmy linked to above says:
"All of the bullion products reserved for the sets were personally struck by Mint Director David J. Ryder at the Mint’s West Point, NY production facility."

Note the "were" (i.e., past tense). I interpret this to mean that the coins have already been manufactured.

messydesk

@MetroD said:

@messydesk said:
Maybe mark the dies for these so that there's a more meaningful difference than just paperwork and packaging.

Like the idea.

However, not sure it is possible. The article that @Mgarmy linked to above says:
"All of the bullion products reserved for the sets were personally struck by Mint Director David J. Ryder at the Mint’s West Point, NY production facility."

Note the "were" (i.e., past tense). I interpret this to mean that the coins have already been manufactured.

Very well, then. Add a "privy mark" to the coins.

CaptHenway

"Hermetically sealed! Kept on the front porch of Funk & Wagnalls since Noon today!!!"

CaptHenway

@messydesk said:

@MetroD said:

@messydesk said:
Maybe mark the dies for these so that there's a more meaningful difference than just paperwork and packaging.

Like the idea.

However, not sure it is possible. The article that @Mgarmy linked to above says:
"All of the bullion products reserved for the sets were personally struck by Mint Director David J. Ryder at the Mint’s West Point, NY production facility."

Note the "were" (i.e., past tense). I interpret this to mean that the coins have already been manufactured.

Very well, then. Add a "privy mark" to the coins.

A dollar sign would be appropriate!

JBK

A lottery would be a better idea. Then the high bidders can take over on the secondary market.

7Jaguars

Ridiculous. Well, hope those bidders have a go at these with no special characteristics. The only problem is that if it makes plenty of money they will repeat this ad infinitum.

jmlanzaf

@ErrorsOnCoins said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@JimTyler said:
Good for them bad for me. I won’t go into battle for these, then what ? Anyone I might sell it to could have out bid me so no one is left except the clueless eBay buyers and I don’t do eBay anymore.

Well, if you wanted one to own, this would be good for you.

The whole point of an auction is to eliminate most flippers. The only people left will be the people who grade them before resale.

I bet it will be mostly flippers.

Only flippers who deal in plastic. The auction removes much of the wholesale market for raw coins, depending on HHL of course.

jmlanzaf

@JBK said:
A lottery would be a better idea. Then the high bidders can take over on the secondary market.

A lottery would be better for the lottery winners. For the Mint, the auction is a much better idea. The Mint doesn't profit on the secondary market.

[As usual, people are just trying to find something that works for them.]

GRANDAM

Number stamp by hand #1 - #500 with a punch stamp.

Halfpence

Will they offer any without the Director’s signature? Not really interested in that.

Martin

Someone help me out here please. Are Each of the coins also offered as individuals? If so the auction format is only for the set which is limited to 500. If all the coins are available individually and none of them are exclusive to the set what is the allure of the set the box, the COA’s signed? I’m usually wrong on these type of things but I say it won’t be as successful as the mint might think.

Thanks
Martin

MetroD

@Martin said:
Someone help me out here please. Are Each of the coins also offered as individuals? If so the auction format is only for the set which is limited to 500. If all the coins are available individually and none of them are exclusive to the set what is the allure of the set the box, the COA’s signed? I’m usually wrong on these type of things but I say it won’t be as successful as the mint might think.

Thanks
Martin

My read - this auction is for four-coin sets. 500 sets will be available.

Special features for the set:
~ coins were personally struck by Ryder;
~ COA with original Ryder signature.

WCC

@Martin said:
Someone help me out here please. Are Each of the coins also offered as individuals? If so the auction format is only for the set which is limited to 500. If all the coins are available individually and none of them are exclusive to the set what is the allure of the set the box, the COA’s signed? I’m usually wrong on these type of things but I say it won’t be as successful as the mint might think.

Thanks
Martin

No, you are not wrong. It's another marketing gimmick that will presumably turn out to be profitable for the US Mint and not inconceivably for the buyer.

Paying a noticeable premium for what are actually common coins with a meaningless connection with a person almost no one knows.

Martin

Thank you @MetroD

So no low mintage issue exclusive to the set.

Martim

Martin

@WCC thanks. Maybe at a auction format these coins will bring true bullion prices maybe spot plus 10% (highly doubtful) but that would show them. It seems to me just another gimmick

Thanks
Martin

derryb

With only 500 sets, they will draw moon money at auction. Again, one is buying the label.

Likely will have to be submitted for individual coin grading for a "set" label in sealed mint box. One won't know he got an inferior coin from the mint until after it's graded and beyond the mint return window.

mark_dak

I'll pass thank you... good news for interested collectors is you now know there's one less bidder.

MetroD

@Martin said:
Thank you @MetroD

So no low mintage issue exclusive to the set.

Martim

The Mint recently announced two "special" releases of AE bullion coins.

1) the last (Type 1) and the first (Type 2) production 'runs' of 2021 American Eagle bullion coins;
2) "2021 American Eagles at Dusk and at Dawn 35th Anniversary four-coin sets of American Eagle bullion coins."

Source

This thread is about the latter; this one is about the former.

As far as I know, there currently is no "low mintage issue" planned for the D&D four-coin set (i.e., it is just 500 four-coin sets).

ricko

Not an item I am interested in acquiring. Sure, for dealers/flippers and the mint, it will be interesting. Nothing special though beyond the hype and window dressing. "What's behind the curtain?".... Cheers, RickO

WAYNEAS

rip_f

@messydesk said:
Maybe mark the dies for these so that there's a more meaningful difference than just paperwork and packaging.

.
No offense, but that would be a horrible idea.

The Mint has told its customers several times over the last couple years (somewhat deceptively) that this or that coin would be "the last of the original design". For those of us ASE Type 1 collectors with complete sets, having yet another very expensive one to acquire would be disappointing.

If it's "unique" merely because of a label and a signature - I could care less.
If it's a unique ASE - I would once again be disappointed. Likely inducing a call to Mint management and probably even followed up by a stern letter!

Coinosaurus

I like it. Many of the complainers about the current system would just flip them anyway. The Mint might as well just sell at fair market value to begin with.

BillJones

I am indeed glad that I could never get interested in American Silver Eagles. I owned parts of two sets and ended up selling all of them because I lost interest.

Given the games the mint has played with them over the years, collecting them is no fun. It's like a dog chasing its tail. You can never keep up with it, and if you do, it will cost you a fortune.

jmlanzaf

@Coinosaurus said:
I like it. Many of the complainers about the current system would just flip them anyway. The Mint might as well just sell at fair market value to begin with.

Agree. They should do it with all new releases. After the auction period, any unsold can go to BIN. Let the market price all issues.

Namvet69

I think they should hide winning chits on the bottom of half gallons of milk at Wawa. Then I'd have a slight chance. Peace Roy

WCC

@jmlanzaf said:

@Coinosaurus said:
I like it. Many of the complainers about the current system would just flip them anyway. The Mint might as well just sell at fair market value to begin with.

Agree. They should do it with all new releases. After the auction period, any unsold can go to BIN. Let the market price all issues.

If I understand you correctly, just hold the auction before coins are struck and reduce the mintage if necessary.

SPalladino

The product is only marginally relevant in this case. What is relevant, at least to me, is that the mint is trialing an auction system. ...one that might be employed with future limited release products (or products anticipated to have demand >> production).

jmlanzaf

@WCC said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Coinosaurus said:
I like it. Many of the complainers about the current system would just flip them anyway. The Mint might as well just sell at fair market value to begin with.

Agree. They should do it with all new releases. After the auction period, any unsold can go to BIN. Let the market price all issues.

If I understand you correctly, just hold the auction before coins are struck and reduce the mintage if necessary.

You could, but you don't have to. Let's say there's a 200k mintage limit. Strike them or don't. Hold an auction. If you get less than 200k bid, then the starting bid is the sale price for everyone. The extras can go on the website at the opening bid.

If the 200k+ bidders bid it up to $200, then they get then at $200.

BStrauss3

There are several kinds of market-clearing auctions that COULD be used. For example, if there are 500 items, the top 500 bidders win, but pay the 500th bidder's price.

blitzdude

Oh yay! SNAP! What could possibly go wrong? lol

Mgarmy

JM is going to buy them all and corner the market

jmlanzaf

@Mgarmy said:
JM is going to buy them all and corner the market

Not me. Flipping is all but dead except for plastic if you hold the auction.

I've been suggesting an auction for months as the best way for the Mint to maximize returns and find the true market price. Of course, I've been a Band of One.

Swampboy

@CaptHenway said:
"Hermetically sealed! Kept on the front porch of Funk & Wagnalls since Noon today!!!"

"May a diseased yak squat on your loupe"

CaptHenway

@jmlanzaf said:

@Mgarmy said:
JM is going to buy them all and corner the market

Not me. Flipping is all but dead except for plastic if you hold the auction.

I've been suggesting an auction for months as the best way for the Mint to maximize returns and find the true market price. Of course, I've been a Band of One.

I have all your vinyl albums!