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If the TPGs adopted a 100 point scale (or something similar), what would you do with your slabs?
Catbert
Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
Rather than hijack braddick's thread, I thought I'd create this poll. Since the TPGs now have new investors who will attempt to grow these companies into new markets, the existing coin grading approach might also be revised to increase submissions and thus revenue. THIS POLL IS INTENDED FOR COLLECTORS, not dealers. Also, please remember the board rules so this thread doesn't get deleted.
Seated Half Society member #38
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
If the TPGs adopted a 100 point scale (or something similar), what would you do with your slabs?
This is a public poll: others will see what you voted for.
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Keep them. It would be cost prohibitive to send them in and for questionable value if there was a change of grading scale. I’m sure there will be some sort of approximation translation between any two grading scales. After all, the coins themselves wouldn’t have changed.
Nothing
My response would be to light up a doobie and smugly mutter "I told you so".
If I still owned Sheldon-grade slabs, I'd consign them to an auction and let the crackout/crossover players fantasize about the 100pt grade.
Nothing. The problem comes when the TPGs introduce additional unwanted chaos after switching to a 100 point scale. Do they kick stuff out of the registry after a certain amount of time? Do they guarantee old-to-new grade conversion indefinitely or only for a while? Do they offer super-cheap reholders with new converted grades? Do they use both grading scales simultaneously? The answers to those questions could influence what collectors and dealers do.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
A. What's the point?
B. We are splitting hairs as it is with + grades * grades CAC etc.
C. There are 4 AU grades now will there be twenty with a 100pt?
D. Massive outcry.
We aren’t far away from the 100 point system anyway since the top TPGs are using + as half grades for quite a few existing grades.
E. Prepare for the endless debates of if a coin is a 78.2 or a 78.3. Why stop with 100 when you can have a 1000 point scale?
I would keep current material in inventory until sold out (cost plus) new acquisitions would be in new 100 PT grading system slabs.
No I would not spend money on grading costs convert existing. I can get banknotes graded economy for $18-$20 (have many nice raw, many CSA, Obsolete, NBN) which am on a tear to do and pickup low pop world slabbed coins single/ double digit pop for $30-$60, then markup accordingly. So cheap vs US. My slab inventory has decreased to a plan roster of 80-100. My graded currency has been increasing - submittal PCGS.
My philosophy irregardless of number AU is AU, CH Unc is CH Unc. They can play games with numerical grading, holder, sticker thing all they want but it will not change how I price my material. Default is cost plus. CW Trends shows GEM Unc as MS65. They would probably show the number under the 100 PT system in that column too. If somebody tried BS me my old numerical slabbed material worth less I would tell them my usual - go find one or ask if they have one sell me at that (person quoting CDN bid or whatever).
Or on my spreadsheet mult the old number x 1.4286 for valuation / pricing if forced use new system.
Multiply the grade on the label by 1.4286 and write that on the slab with a Sharpie.
Nothing.
When a coin can be rated at 67.8, we already have a 700 point system. From there, a 1000 scale can be more realistically considered. "Realistically" seems out of place on this thread.
@MasonG - 1.142857 and the digit rotation for all the sevenths is maintained. I'd under-grade at 1.142; someone will think they're ripping my eyes out.
I agree with TurtleCat. If they so happen to go this route, I hope they would also place a guide showing the comparison between the original system and the new system?
Example:
MS 70 = MS 100
PF. 69 = PF. 99
etc.
Then, I wouldn't mind the change at all.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.The coins speak for themselves.
They are still graded by a standard that is understandable and acceptable, even if no longer current.
As a bonus, many of my older slabs might become even more desirable.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
It's actually sort of true. If you throw + grades and CAC into the mix.
Is a 66 CAC 66.3 or 66.4?
Is a 66+ a 66.5?
Like OGH's mystic, the unconverted slabs will become more valuable on perception alone.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
I would continue as I have.... I just do not care. I value the coin, not the slab, not the grade. Cheers, RickO
If there is money to be made ... why stop at just 1000!
I can't wait to hear all the moaning and groaning when submitted lots of silver eagles come back with 999 grades.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Would stop me from buying any more slabs, and I certainly would never send in everything I have to be regraded. I see the 100 or what ever number of points you want scale change as a pure money grab and I have no intention of being one of the lemmings to follow that lead. Personally I don't think that the TPG's are foolish enough to destroy the registries overnight by instituting a new grading scale, but if submissions were to drop enough all bets are off.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I hope that will not happen.
i would leave well enough alone then start in with new slabs as desired
Look at the grades in effect 50 years ago (no 58 back then for example). Within the last 15 years, we have seen + grades, CAC, registries, etc., appear. The next gimmick will appear in a few years. People (collectors and dealers) will buy in if they think they stand to possibly benefit. Just not me--I will be out soon.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
It would REALLY wreak havoc on the Registry participants.......
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
More than one of the OP options potentially apply.
As long as I am still collecting, I'll keep my primary series in the current holder.
If I ever sell my core collection, I'd regrade if I thought it would be beneficial and crack the rest out of the holder and sell it ungraded with Aureo & Calico. Some of my coins (even without details grades) are already worth more out of the holder than in it due to different grading standards.
Practically everything not in my core collection, I'd sell if I thought a regrade will be necessary.
I have also thought about donating my core collection to the ANS if I or any of my heirs don't need the money.
My slabs would remain unchanged.
I would probably purchase more (only?) current-scale slabs for a few years until I figured out the conversion in my own mind.
If they went to a 100pt scale I doubt there would really be 100 possible grades, just like there’s no G7 or AU54 slabs now, there probably wouldn’t be any 17s or 23s on the 100pt scale. All the action and consternation is in the MS range.
The market has always used the grade and the price guide as a starting point. PQ coins go for more, other factors can bring the price down.
As I don't lack very much to finish my current collections, I would watch and hopefully be able to buy my current slab deficiencies at a better price than currently available. Especially, if the poll shows that many would sell their current slabs in order to do whatever. I definitely would not sell nor buy new grading system slabs. I might by a coin or two that struck my fancy if the new grading system and slabs listed grades for the obverse and reverse as the old ANACS and other grading companies did. So odd how many forum members here say we don't need that, but then when a coin is presented for GTG they say the obverse is ? and the reverse is ?. I always liked the dual grades on graded coins.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Plan B would be to leave the hobby — no one likes getting jerked around and I personally wouldn’t give the TPGs any more of my $$$ just to regrade all my slabs to a different grading scale.
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
I would just put a sticker on them with the grade normalized to a 100 point scale, assuming a linear relationship.
Collector, occasional seller
Wouldn't affect me in the least. I genuinely don't care what any label says.
Here we go again …
As if not enough of the fun has been taken out of collecting U.S. coins because of grading issues already.
Sounds like an easy way to have the stickers removed...I'm in.
My Saint Set
I'd see if the new system adds value and proceed accordingly. Like everyone else, I imagine.
Use my P-touch and make any visual grade adjustments accordingly. Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW
Coin conditions and grades are very much like feet and shoe sizes.
Feet and coin conditions are continuous and shoes and grades are discontinuous.
Off the shelf sizes would be poor, about good, good, very good, fine, very fine, extra fine, about uncirculated, uncirculated. Custom fit sizes are your TPG opinions with all the plus, star, numeric, and strike designations.
I get the feeling the leadership of the major coin grading services are following this thread to get a feel as to how a 100 point grading scale would be received by the coin collecting public.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Yes, quite possible? Hi PCGS, NGC, ANACS and ICG!
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.The only time it makes sense to me to pay for regrading is at sale time, and then only in select cases. I learned a long time ago that the old 66 in a new 67 holder looks suspiciously like it did before. Very frequently, it sells for about the same amount too, even when it isn’t easily traceable.
I don't see any legitimate reason to change the scale for circulated grades. There are already 59 points from PO-01 to AU-59 one could use. I could maybe see expanding the Uncirculated scale so it goes from 60 to 100.
Instead, what I actually would like to see are separate grades for the obverse and reverse, like ANACS used to do.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
If we are to accept that there are 11 mint state grades (debatable, but in which direction?), than any system in which the new number of mint state grades (that is, actually used grades) is not divisible by eleven (and ~91% of numbers are not divisible by 11, remember), there will not be a simple way to readily convert old grades into new grades. Which will make things "fun", as in "living in interesting times".
Ed. S.
(EJS)
The only way this makes any real sense (at least to me) is 1 through 59 remain as is, and 60 through 100 are Uncirculated grades, otherwise nothing makes sense for maintaining some level of continuity. And let's face it, it's the Uncirculated splitting of hairs where the grading game money is at anyway, and it's not like we're using every number below 60 now.
If they expand to 100 in that way, the 41 Uncirculated grades basically doubles the current system (when pluses are factored in), or almost quadruples it otherwise. And then 20 years on they can add back the pluses and have another cycle. Or they can keep pluses right at the start and have a nearly eight fold increase in grading levels of uncirculated.
Like the good Colonel ... we all kick back and laugh at the preponderance of single point grading at this new, more infinite level, especially when we are all still splitting hairs with the current system.
But it will cause the system to churn if they do it and can make it stick.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
WAIT, WAIT ... Just think of how easy it would be to get a GOLD sticker!!
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
With Pluses and CAC, we're at 100 grade points already:
The 100 Point Grading Scale in Use Today
I imagine a different scale would be hard on the graders, too. They have spent a lifetime honing their skills with the current grading and would likely make many mistakes with a new scale until they had enough experience. Initially I’d imagine they would grade as always and then translate it in their head. So the grades themselves will probably be essentially the same for a long while.
I like the vintage terminology. Today, it is a pre-roll. Shop the sales and the cost can be less than $5.
I would leave my coins in their existing holders.
I was going to PM you because I think this kind of error is not worth distracting from thread flow, but I got irritated because the system software says I don't have permission to contact you
Mystique
Surely OT, but a doobie was, and is, and always will be a "hand-roll". And flavored glue is for sissies.
I think I must have lived a sheltered life. 'Hand-roll', 'flavored glue'? I do know what a doobie is, so I am not a total dork.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Absolutely would not redo even one of my slabbed pieces, in fact a move like that would likely turn me off totally and completely at this point.
It will not happen.
I agree with Errors On Coins.
I said that about bottled water in 1966. No one took me seriously
Now @Catbert is saying that about a 100 pt grading scale, and I'm not taking him seriously.
YMMV
edited to add:
So saith one whose area is not limited nor defined by grade.
Since, in all seriousness, I agree with you, I'll restate my original post as
"I will light up a doobie and smugly mutter "in your dreams".
Put that in your pipe and smoke it...