The 100 Point Grading Scale in Use Today
Zoins
Posts: 33,910 ✭✭✭✭✭
Update I added CAC Gold based on the comments below and there are now 100 individual grades, up from 71 with only a single listing for CAC. I've updated the thread title to reflect this as well. This was previously called "The Grading Chart - In practice, there are over 70 individual grades!"
I was wondering how many grades there are in practice and counted the following 100 with pluses and CAC. I put CAC below a plus since it's based on the base grade, not the plus.
It's interesting that MS takes up 38 of the 100 and MS+AU takes up 54 of the 100 grades, or over 50% of actual grades. It's also interesting that the bottom 10 points take 20 grading slots, or 20% of the slots. Previously, I only counted 71 with a single listing for CAC in each grade. Here, MS takes up 28 of the 71 and MS+AU takes up 40 of the 71 grades, also over 50% of actual grades.
I didn't add CAC on the plus grade because CAC is technically only on the base grade but the market may treat them differently. Also, I didn't add PL and DMPL because they are not available for all coins. Either of these would increase the number of actual grades.
- 70
- 69 CAC (A/B)
- 69
- 68+
- 68 CAC Gold
- 68 CAC (A/B)
- 68
- 67+
- 67 CAC Gold
- 67 CAC (A/B)
- 67
- 66+
- 66 CAC Gold
- 66 CAC (A/B)
- 66
- 65+
- 65 CAC Gold
- 65 CAC (A/B)
- 65
- 64+
- 64 CAC Gold
- 64 CAC (A/B)
- 64
- 64+
- 63 CAC Gold
- 63 CAC (A/B)
- 63
- 62+
- 62 CAC Gold
- 62 CAC (A/B)
- 62
- 61 CAC Gold
- 61 CAC (A/B)
- 61
- 60 CAC Gold
- 60 CAC (A/B)
- 60
- 58+
- 58 CAC Gold
- 58 CAC (A/B)
- 58
- 55+
- 55 CAC Gold
- 55 CAC (A/B)
- 55
- 53+
- 53 CAC Gold
- 53 CAC (A/B)
- 53
- 50+
- 50 CAC Gold
- 50 CAC (A/B)
- 50
- 45+
- 45 CAC Gold
- 45 CAC (A/B)
- 45
- 40 CAC Gold
- 40 CAC (A/B)
- 40
- 35 CAC Gold
- 35 CAC (A/B)
- 35
- 30 CAC Gold
- 30 CAC (A/B)
- 30
- 25 CAC Gold
- 25 CAC (A/B)
- 25
- 20 CAC Gold
- 20 CAC (A/B)
- 20
- 15 CAC Gold
- 15 CAC (A/B)
- 15
- 12 CAC Gold
- 12 CAC (A/B)
- 12
- 10 CAC Gold
- 10 CAC (A/B)
- 10
- 8 CAC Gold
- 8 CAC (A/B)
- 8
- 6 CAC Gold
- 6 CAC (A/B)
- 6
- 4 CAC Gold
- 4 CAC (A/B)
- 4
- 3 CAC Gold
- 3 CAC (A/B)
- 3
- 2 CAC Gold
- 2 CAC (A/B)
- 2
- 1 CAC Gold
- 1 CAC (A/B)
- 1
- Genuine
Comments
Wow! Thanks for the list @Zoins.
Did you include the CAC gold? That is a wild card that could mean that an AU58 is a 59 or a MS60 or maybe higher.
That's true, I should include that.
Though, from what I've seen a CAC green means the same thing as a CAC gold in that a CAC green can upgrade by one or two full points, and then get another CAC green. Of course, the gold bean is more coveted and results in a stronger price.
Maybe A/B. What about the plus CAC's.
I commented on this in the OP. I didn't add plus CACs because CAC only considers the base grade. However, the market may treat it differently. I may add them to see how it works out.
I'm trying to see if there are 100+ grades already
I just added CAC gold and we are now at 100 actual grades!
Would be interesting read and see the definition and an actual example pic for each of those 100 grades.
My head just exploded. Are they sure we don't really need 200-300 grading categories? CAC Platinum, then if that isn't enough go to CAC palladium, just to be sure.
Spring forward, fall back, rinse and repeat.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
Amazing.... how many ways can we split a grade....and still we argue/debate assigned grades.... Well, that is the way with opinions... everybody has them, some agree, some do not. Only defined standards can fix this issue. Cheers, RickO
The 69 CAC gold makes absolutely no sense. That would be the same as CAC declaring a coin is really a 70 with part of the rim/edge not being visible due to the holder which may be hiding a small flaw. I know JA is a good grader but I don't think he has X-Ray vision.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
it should be clear to anyone paying attention that it is all about ways to squeeze more money out of a TPG graded coin. the sad truth in the Hobby of Kings is that greed dominates.
I see; another CAC thread, thanks.
Ugh...
Now we can start GTGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG threads.
Grades will continue to be added until the last half cent is squeezed out the the plastic.
I think you should include the "Star" grades in your census. That should add a bunch more like: 65 * and
65* CAC. I guess there may be a 65* CAC Gold also.
A minus grade in the system or a move to .5 may be another easy pill to swallow.
MS-65 - is a coin that just makes it. Perhaps 2 graders called it 65 but the finalizer didn't like it. I'll bet something as this goes on more than we know.
I might as well jump!
then add the dealer mark-up for eye appeal, toning and whatever else they can think of. I hate to sound negative but that's the direction where everything seems to be heading. submit a nicely toned coin to PCGS that they grade MS64+ and then the parade starts --- it goes to CAC(added cost) and then after it gets sold and re-sold by three dealers along comes a collector who is enamored by the tone and impressed by the sticker. out slides the wallet and the collector finds himself buried with little recourse but to hold.
I'm sure this isn't the norm, but it also isn't the exception. all the while those nice coins, properly graded and attractively priced hear the whispers, "You are sub-par and un-stickered, you are not worthy." so their price goes down and the dirty little secret is exposed.
Hey! You can't say this!!! .....I .......own the rights to telling folks that unstickered coins are headed for Zool.
I've seen 69 CAC green, but not a 69 CAC gold yet. A 69 CAC gold is theoretically possible but since I haven't seen one, I've replaced it with Genuine at the bottom of the stack which NGC includes in their pops.
Here's one from GC:
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/662208/1884-Indian-Princess-Gold-Dollar-PCGS-MS-69-CAC
I'm trying to stick with commonly used designations. PCGS doesn't issue stars so I'm keeping it out of the main list for now.
Also I'd probably not include star + CAC for the same reason I don't include plus + CAC, which is that CAC does not recognize the star or plus. Of course, the market could recognize the combination.
For other coins, there are other variations including RD/RB/BR for copper, CAM/DCAM, PL/DMPL, Full-X for different coins, etc.
It would be interesting to see what the max scale looks like including stars, star+plus, star+CAC, plus+CAC, star+plus+CAC and other variations. I'm guessing copper would have the most grades with RD/RB/BR + CAM/DCAM.
Ricko, you hit the nail on the head.
I have been saying for years that a universial accepted norm must be established and... become Law, like for example screws and bolts.. A # 8 is a # 8 here or in Timbuktu.
no pretty stickers or a fancy system needed.
ARGH!!!
I go by the TPG grade on Holder - CAC gold green orange purple so what? Means nothing to me.
I do not offer / pay above TPG grade on Holder.
Tum tee dum dee dee
@Zoins Hadn't thought about it that way, but you are 100% correct. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
ill stick with the 70 point system for right now, jmo
I am usually a proponent of change - BUT IT HAS TO MAKE SENSE!
That grading scale makes no sense to me, so I will stick with the 70 point system.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Nothing is going to change until the 2 big TPGS's, and possibly some organizations (PNG, ANA) go along with it. Then you'll get whatever they give you. LOL.
My head hurts,,,,,
If those in power radically change the grading system, I'll probably cut back on buying coins and will most likely be buying more raw coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
I've heard it all before. matter of fact, we got a huge submission yesterday from a major dealer who once told me that the TPGS's were not needed and that he would never have anything to do with slabs. He has been selling slabs for years but this is our first order.
Each of us is such a small cog in the numismatic wheel that most of us could quit collecting coins entirely and no one would be missed! If change does come, we are all going to need to embrace it because the folks selling coins will be using any new system.