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  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,628 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A lot of changes with the big 2 in slabs this year. I wonder how it will play out in years to come? Perhaps there will be a sea change of sorts coming on the horizon?

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very interesting... There will likely be changes in operations in the near future. Cheers, RickO

  • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,741 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just got the email as well. Be interesting to see where all of this goes.

    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
  • YorkshiremanYorkshireman Posts: 4,583 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I work at a major investment firm and talk to Blackstone people often.
    That is very interesting news.

    Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
  • fastfreddiefastfreddie Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They'll be some pencil sharpening going on for sure.

    It is not that life is short, but that you are dead for so very long.
  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,850 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hmmmm. I think sooner or later we'll see some innovation. An occasional shakeup is inevitable - gotta keep those submissions coming in. :) 100 pt grading scale? Something else? Who knows.

  • fastfreddiefastfreddie Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How about a dual holder combining grades from both services (graded independently) and a window to insert the sticker if warranted.

    It is not that life is short, but that you are dead for so very long.
  • pmh1nicpmh1nic Posts: 3,326 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I really never really thought of collectibles as an “asset class” but I guess at some level, significant collections of very rare coins, art, baseball cards, cars, etc. they legitimately are an asset class.

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hmmm My stock Broker just liquidated my Blackstone Holdings!

  • dmwestdmwest Posts: 959 ✭✭✭✭

    100 pt scale along with obv/rev individual grading

    Don't quote me on that.

  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 13,094 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maybe Andre Iguodala will grade coins once he retires from the NBA ;)

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 35,087 ✭✭✭✭✭

    private equity likes debt.

    I hope they don't debt up a slow growing company

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,598 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Did they spot a cash cow to milk?

    All glory is fleeting.
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    private equity likes debt.

    I hope they don't debt up a slow growing company

    That is a very 1980’s PE model

  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,657 ✭✭✭✭✭

    From experience, what usually happens when money flows into businesses that rely on producing or ensuring the quality of a product, the ability to do so lessens, and the profit incentive becomes the dominant concern. No more, "the customer is right" because the new customer is the share holder.

    thefinn
  • AlexinPAAlexinPA Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Meet the new boss same as the old boss......

  • TetromibiTetromibi Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BryceM said:
    Hmmmm. I think sooner or later we'll see some innovation. An occasional shakeup is inevitable - gotta keep those submissions coming in. :) 100 pt grading scale? Something else? Who knows.

    They can’t keep up with demand as-is. Maybe some pricing adjustments and some other things to increase efficiency.

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am surprised it has taken this long for the market to do a feeding circle around these (entrenched) high cash flow-low overhead based consumable product companies. I was always amazed at the low CLCT prices historically considering they were a high dividend company. Under the radar no longer

  • DrDarrylDrDarryl Posts: 641 ✭✭✭✭✭

    https://bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-01/blackstone-buys-stake-in-certified-collectibles-joined-by-jay-z

    Blackstone said its tactical opportunities group is purchasing a majority stake, valuing the business at more than $500 million. Other investors include Roc Nation, Jay-Z’s entertainment company, and Daryl Morey, president of basketball operations for the Philadelphia 76ers.

    Certified Collectibles founder Mark Salzberg and Chief Executive Officer Steven Eichenbaum will retain a significant minority stake.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 35,087 ✭✭✭✭✭

    $500 Mil?

    Will everyone get a raise?

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • ShaunBC5ShaunBC5 Posts: 1,771 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DrDarryl said:
    https://bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-01/blackstone-buys-stake-in-certified-collectibles-joined-by-jay-z

    Blackstone said its tactical opportunities group is purchasing a majority stake, valuing the business at more than $500 million. Other investors include Roc Nation, Jay-Z’s entertainment company, and Daryl Morey, president of basketball operations for the Philadelphia 76ers.

    Certified Collectibles founder Mark Salzberg and Chief Executive Officer Steven Eichenbaum will retain a significant minority stake.

    Beyoncé owns NGC. Looking at raw Saints like “all the single ladies, put your hands up!” And your damaged coins like “if you liked it then you shoulda put a slab on it!”

    (To tie this up for some, those are lyrics from a song, except I used “slab” instead of ”ring” and Beyoncé is married to Jay-Z)

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,598 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    $500 Mil?

    Will everyone get a raise?

    I hope they aren't holding their breath waiting for one.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 29,070 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    $500 Mil?

    Will everyone get a raise?

    Yes like it or not

  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 1, 2021 2:55PM

    Perhaps they see straight up growth in this area.
    When there are fears of inflationary pressure people look to many other baskets to put money into.
    So maybe they think people will be spending more on collectable items.
    Then there is the possibility of the new owners greatly expanding the business of certifying other collectable "things" which can add revenue streams. Then there is growth and expansion of collectables in other world markets such as what was seen and discussed recently right here in this thread. Or maybe it's some combination of several things including the things above.

    Edit to fix thread error

  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 13,094 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    $500 Mil?

    Will everyone get a raise?

    Just Salzberg and Eichembaum - to their bank accounts.

  • KoveKove Posts: 2,038 ✭✭✭✭

    Either Blackstone sees tremendous growth for NGC, or they will tighten the screws and get returns everywhere they can. I hope it's the former.

    I do find it interesting that this Blackstone investment in NGC is happening at the exact same time that PCGS' president is leaving for greener pastures elsewhere.

  • AMRCAMRC Posts: 4,280 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Or perhaps the maturity of the market is finally being realized. i.e. Luxury Assets

    MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pmh1nic said:
    I really never really thought of collectibles as an “asset class” but I guess at some level, significant collections of very rare coins, art, baseball cards, cars, etc. they legitimately are an asset class.

    I'd describe your description as part of someone's portfolio, not an asset class.

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JohnnyCache said:
    Perhaps they see straight up growth in this area.
    When there are fears of inflationary pressure people look to many other baskets to put money into.
    So maybe they think people will be spending more on collectable items.
    Then there is the possibility of the new owners greatly expanding the business of certifying other collectable "things" which can add revenue streams. Then there is growth and expansion of collectables in other world markets such as what was seen and discussed recently right here in this thread. Or maybe it's some combination of several things including the things above.

    Edit to fix thread error

    If Blackstone bought CCG based upon the prospects of world coin grading, I'm predicting a huge disappointment.

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Kove said:
    Either Blackstone sees tremendous growth for NGC, or they will tighten the screws and get returns everywhere they can. I hope it's the former.

    I do find it interesting that this Blackstone investment in NGC is happening at the exact same time that PCGS' president is leaving for greener pastures elsewhere.

    Interesting point.

    Blackstone is the world’s largest private equity firm …. symbol BX.

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • pmh1nicpmh1nic Posts: 3,326 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WCC said:

    @pmh1nic said:
    I really never really thought of collectibles as an “asset class” but I guess at some level, significant collections of very rare coins, art, baseball cards, cars, etc. they legitimately are an asset class.

    I'd describe your description as part of someone's portfolio, not an asset class.

    Blackstone has other ideas. They describe this collection of stuff as an "asset class".

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
  • 3keepSECRETif2rDEAD3keepSECRETif2rDEAD Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭✭✭

    …Nice, a Blackstone is what my personal chef uses to cook sea creatures for me on ;)

  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,521 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @3keepSECRETif2rDEAD said:
    …Nice, a Blackstone is what my personal chef uses to cook sea creatures for me on ;)

    Lol, that's a different Blackstone.

    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • derrybderryb Posts: 37,560 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wall St. finally sees $'s in collectibles. A good sign for collectors.

  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,656 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They tried to commercialize numismatics in the mid 1980s. Big run ups in Gem common date Morgans and Walkers. It didn't end well.

    I can see the big fish trying to convince the uber wealthy that owning expensive coins is like owning expensive art.

    Relating to this, I thought Heritage owned a piece of NGC. Is this still the case?

    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • RedglobeRedglobe Posts: 691 ✭✭✭

    Collectables such as coins and trading cards are a strong trend right now and they are buying into that trend.

    Rob
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 35,087 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Strong trend or buying at the top?

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • RedglobeRedglobe Posts: 691 ✭✭✭

    I would say strong trend...wouldn't guess about buying at the top since it was a private company (NGC) I think.
    Isn't NGC private previous to this

    Rob
  • jessewvujessewvu Posts: 5,065 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’ve never been a customer of NGC and haven’t heard of the other company. Good for them?? 🤷‍♂️

  • RedglobeRedglobe Posts: 691 ✭✭✭

    Where shares involved or just an equity infusion with majority ownership

    Rob
  • jessewvujessewvu Posts: 5,065 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    Wall St. finally sees $'s in collectibles. A good sign for collectors.

    My guess is someone’s trying to make a play in the sports card arena. That’s a hot hot hot hot market and rising right now. It’s a guess

  • DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I bet their play is to streamline, increase profits, and go public.

    "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • SilverProofQuarter1883SilverProofQuarter1883 Posts: 1,865 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hope they take good care of NGC, I have heard horror Stories of companies buying other companies and then the company fails. Hope Blackstone keeps its promise of innovation and growing NGC. NGC is great and I hope it stays great.

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Elcontador said:
    They tried to commercialize numismatics in the mid 1980s. Big run ups in Gem common date Morgans and Walkers. It didn't end well.

    I can see the big fish trying to convince the uber wealthy that owning expensive coins is like owning expensive art.

    Relating to this, I thought Heritage owned a piece of NGC. Is this still the case?

    I think it is .

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Blackstone is generally a good strategic partner in my experience.

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 4,311 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Future Collectable ETF?

  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,628 ✭✭✭✭✭

    All I can say is working for a PE is very different from other funding sources. It’s all about the EBITDA.

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Goldminers said:
    Future Collectable ETF?

    If so, it will be a small one.

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