Looks like one can get an ASE for about $33, with spot at 23. So much for 80-100% premiums (as claimed by some).
And I bought some at a garage sale for spot.
Hey, you're the one who started this thread with APMEX as the control group to maintain a consistent measuring stick for premuiums. Now you're sounding like a government statistician who wants to change the formula to give the politicians the data that will get them the most votes.
Not surprised since in another thread you disagreed with the decades old method of determining how to define a recession.
Typical that you want to change the method of collecting/defining data since you are notorious for changing the words of others here in an attempt to make a completely different point that supports your narrative. Or, maybe like gutter boy, you just want to argure.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Challenging false and misleading narratives and commentary is called civic duty. If you consider it "changing words" then perhaps you should practice some introspection.
This is your thread and your idea. I just resurrected it when you cried after being challenged. Your false premise on ASE premiums has been proven just that. You don't even gaslight well.
None of your "what high premiums means" has been proven correct. Instead, nothing imploded and spot dropped nearly 50%.
@derryb said:
yet ASE premiums remain through the roof, lol
I agree they are still sky high. I just looked at a couple of the buy/sell sheets the spreads are still high but the premiums are down at wholesale, and ASEs are in stock. Don't know if its a trend or not.
@cohodk said:
None of your "what high premiums means" has been proven correct. Instead, nothing imploded and spot dropped nearly 50%.
@cohodk said:
Looks like one can get an ASE for about $33, with spot at 23. So much for 80-100% premiums (as claimed by some).
Also, nice $6 buy/sell spread, or about 20%. That's 40 years worth of 0.50% management fee for an ETF.
Looking at the price of "spot" silver over the last 5 years, the peak was $29.37 in August 2020. The subsequent trough was $17.84 in September 2022. That is a drop of 39.26% , not "nearly 50%".
During that time, your SLV declined in market value by 39.26%, plus the 0.5% per year fees, results in a net drop in SLV value of 40.30% .
In September 2022 Silver Eagle coins cost about $31 (active retail price).
In August 2020, as best I can tell, Silver Eagle coins cost about $31 (active retail price).
So if you want to play the SLV card and point out the low (and going negative) premiums for that, then you are leaving out the most important part in that the market value of Silver Eagles apparently did not drop at all during that same time frame.
In September 2022 Silver Eagle coins cost about $31 (active retail price)....
..... the market value of Silver Eagles apparently did not drop at all during that same time frame.
All you have to do is go to the first post in this thread to see that an ASE was offered at almost $39. Then you state that in Sept 2022 ASEs were $31.
I hope we are in agreement that 31 is less than 39.
In September 2022 Silver Eagle coins cost about $31 (active retail price)....
..... the market value of Silver Eagles apparently did not drop at all during that same time frame.
All you have to do is go to the first post in this thread to see that an ASE was offered at almost $39. Then you state that in Sept 2022 ASEs were $31.
I hope we are in agreement that 31 is less than 39.
.
I based my numbers on the daily closing bid price (for silver "spot") and an "active retail price" for Silver Eagles which is a price at which a reasonably large quantity of transactions is actually taking place (not necessarily the highest advertised sell price).
Even using your numbers :
For all of February 2021, maximum intra-day peak silver "spot": $30.35 (your number).
For all of September 2022, minimum intra-day low silver "spot": $17.34 (your number).
This is a decline of $13.01 which is 42.9% of $30.35 .
Adding in the loss due to SLV fees, the net loss in value of a share of SLV over this time frame is 43.7% .
As for Silver Eagles, this thread only goes back to May 2021. At that time, the APMEX Silver Eagle price was $38.62 .
On September 23 2022 the closing price of silver was $18.83 and the APMEX Silver Eagle price was 74.4% above that (according to a September 23 2022 post in this thread). That means the September 23 2022 APMEX Silver Eagle price was $32.84 .
Going from $38.62 to $32.84 would indicate a loss of just under 15% as a worst-case scenario (the worst possible market timing of the last 5 years on silver "spot" for the time to buy and the time to sell).
I hope we are in agreement that a loss of over 43% in SLV is a LOT worse than a loss of less than 15% in Silver Eagles.
.
Now suppose you had bought silver at the peak intra-day maximum of the last 5 years, and then sold today.
For SLV, it would have been $30.35 in September 2022.
Selling today would yield $22.26 which is a loss of 26.65% and the net loss with fees would be 27.30% .
For Silver Eagles, the September 2022 APMEX price was about $32.84 .
Today's APMEX Silver Eagle price (as of right now) is $39.49 .
That would amount to a GAIN of 20.25% .
I hope we are in agreement that a GAIN of over 20% in Silver Eagles is a LOT better than a LOSS of over 27% in SLV.
Now suppose you had bought silver at the peak intra-day maximum of the last 5 years, and then sold today.
For SLV, it would have been $30.35 in September 2022.
Selling today would yield $22.26 which is a loss of 26.65% and the net loss with fees would be 27.30% .
For Silver Eagles, the September 2022 APMEX price was about $32.84 .
Today's APMEX Silver Eagle price (as of right now) is $39.49 .
That would amount to a GAIN of 20.25% .
I hope we are in agreement that a GAIN of over 20% in Silver Eagles is a LOT better than a LOSS of over 27% in SLV.
Now suppose you had bought silver at the peak intra-day maximum of the last 5 years, and then sold today.
For SLV, it would have been $30.35 in September 2022.
Selling today would yield $22.26 which is a loss of 26.65% and the net loss with fees would be 27.30% .
For Silver Eagles, the September 2022 APMEX price was about $32.84 .
Today's APMEX Silver Eagle price (as of right now) is $39.49 .
That would amount to a GAIN of 20.25% .
I hope we are in agreement that a GAIN of over 20% in Silver Eagles is a LOT better than a LOSS of over 27% in SLV.
.
SLV was 30.35 in Sept 2022? Lol
At least try to gaslight with facts.
Try again.
Corrected:
Now suppose you had bought silver at the peak intra-day maximum of the last 5 years, and then sold today.
For SLV, it would have been $27.98 on 01 February 2021.
Selling on 05 December 2022 would yield $20.40 which is a loss of 27.10% (about the same as I had erroneously calculated before).
For Silver Eagles, the 01 February 2021 APMEX price is not certain, but I think it was around $39.
The APMEX Silver Eagle price (on 05 December) is $39.49 .
That would be basically a break-even situation.
I hope we are in agreement that a small gain of less than 1% in Silver Eagles is a LOT better than a LOSS of over 27% in SLV.
@cohodk said:
For there is no loss unless you sell, (ive been told), what was the bid price for ASE on Dec 05 2022?
Your extremely specific example uses bid price for SLV and ask price for ASE.
Try again.
I didn't use Silver Eagle "buy" price for 01 February and Silver Eagle "sell" price for 05 December 2022.
I used the same benchmark for both the buy and sell on Silver Eagles. Same for SLV - same benchmark for SLV buy and SLV sell.
But if the APMEX (or similar) buy-back price is $4 (or any other amount) less than their sell price, then it sill works out about the same. If I use APMEX buy-back price instead of their sell price, it is still close to break-even on Silver Eagles during that time span and a loss of 27% on SLV.
Also note that it is not necessary to use AMPEX (or similar) for buy and sell. A person can get better margins if they go to (or set up at) a coin show, for example. You can't sell your SLV shares for cash at a coin show.
The point of all this is that the price of Silver Eagles is less volatile than the "spot" price of silver, or the SLV price.
If "spot" silver drops, Silver Eagles (or any recognizable form of physical silver) hold value a lot better than SLV.
Gutter goes up gutter goes down. What's for certain is those that have hoarded the physical gutter for the last decade, heck even 4 decades have made a terrible investment. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
@blitzdude said:
Gutter goes up gutter goes down. What's for certain is those that have hoarded the physical gutter for the last decade, heck even 4 decades have made a terrible investment. RGDS!
Buying at the highest peaks in any market, for ANY type of asset, usually doesn't work out well. This is just as true for stocks as it is for commodities.
Silver premiums are undoubtedly coming down...the site I follow was paying +11.50 for ASE and they are now down to +5.00. That's a huge drop. The premium for 90% is also down from +9 for halves to +1 or +2. Premiums dropping fast!
@jclovescoins said:
Silver premiums are undoubtedly coming down...the site I follow was paying +11.50 for ASE and they are now down to +5.00. That's a huge drop. The premium for 90% is also down from +9 for halves to +1 or +2. Premiums dropping fast!
Yes, as usual it's about supply and demand and what dictates prices. The premium to spot is a living, breathing component/function of said.
And it's been said over and over. Still, the value is in the debate.
@jclovescoins said:
Silver premiums are undoubtedly coming down...the site I follow was paying +11.50 for ASE and they are now down to +5.00. That's a huge drop. The premium for 90% is also down from +9 for halves to +1 or +2. Premiums dropping fast!
I am seeing the same thing. Wholesale buy premiums are dropping on almost all silver products. Wholesale sell prices are also dropping but not as fast.
@jclovescoins said:
Silver premiums are undoubtedly coming down...the site I follow was paying +11.50 for ASE and they are now down to +5.00. That's a huge drop. The premium for 90% is also down from +9 for halves to +1 or +2. Premiums dropping fast!
I am seeing the same thing. Wholesale buy premiums are dropping on almost all silver products. Wholesale sell prices are also dropping but not as fast.
Some here will lose their minds once reality sinks in and their artificial premiums are gone. My paper gutter continues to rise, the physical gutter not so much. You could see it coming 1000 miles away. Childs play. LOL THKS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
@dcarr @RedSeals said:
For 400 backdate American Silver Eagles fresh in tubes, local dealers paying spot to $2/over (were at $3-$6 last couple years)- APMEX quoted spot...
So dcarr, how does this real world observation fit your narrative?
@dcarr @RedSeals said:
For 400 backdate American Silver Eagles fresh in tubes, local dealers paying spot to $2/over (were at $3-$6 last couple years)- APMEX quoted spot...
So dcarr, how does this real world observation fit your narrative?
sounds like wholesale is not retail. Is this new to you? Question is "what are those local dealers selling the ASEs for?" Wholesale premiums and retail premiums are two different animals.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
With spot at $23.10 today, retail bullion dealer A is selling ASEs individually at $34.13 and buying them back at $26.62. Dealer B is selling at $40.25 and buying back at $28.38. These are internet price listings for two of the larger bullion shops. Dealer B was offering $33 to sell your eagles back to them 1 month ago. So there is some divergence In typical retail sales prices ($34 vs $40) but the buy back price offers have definitely gone down.
@dcarr @RedSeals said:
For 400 backdate American Silver Eagles fresh in tubes, local dealers paying spot to $2/over (were at $3-$6 last couple years)- APMEX quoted spot...
So dcarr, how does this real world observation fit your narrative?
Those "local dealers" are cheapskates, not market makers. Most of the time, such people only want to buy super low and immediately flip them to a real dealer.
Who here would sell their Silver Eagles for $2 over spot (or less) right now ?
My point continues to hold true -
When silver "spot" declienes, premiums on physical silver go up.
And the net effect is that the market value of the physical silver items is more stable than "spot" (paper) silver.
@RedSeals said:
For 400 backdate American Silver Eagles fresh in tubes, local dealers paying spot to $2/over (were at $3-$6 last couple years)- APMEX quoted spot...
Did you ask what those dealers were selling them for, and how many did they have available ?
@RedSeals said:
For 400 backdate American Silver Eagles fresh in tubes, local dealers paying spot to $2/over (were at $3-$6 last couple years)- APMEX quoted spot...
Did you ask what those dealers were selling them for, and how many did they have available ?
Life in the gutter, you get less and they get more. It's certainly not rocket science. THKS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
@RedSeals said:
For 400 backdate American Silver Eagles fresh in tubes, local dealers paying spot to $2/over (were at $3-$6 last couple years)- APMEX quoted spot...
Did you ask what those dealers were selling them for, and how many did they have available ?
Whenever I encountered someone offering an abnormally low buy price I would ask what would they sell it for.
And the answer was invariably that they didn't have any available.
My point continues to hold true -
When silver "spot" declienes, premiums on physical silver go up.
And the net effect is that the market value of the physical silver items is more stable than "spot" (paper) silver.
Previous comments provide evidence that your quote is not true.
We all get what you are trying to say, but in the real world, the price one gets for their physical silver can vary greatly. The contention that physical price are stable is inaccurate, and especially so when considering the massive buy/sell spreads.
Paper silver provides a deep and liquid market for a small fee. The physical market is a small and fractured mess that can be very cumbersome, time consuming, inefficient and potentially very costly. I believe we can agree that we wish that wasn't the case.
My point continues to hold true -
When silver "spot" declienes, premiums on physical silver go up.
And the net effect is that the market value of the physical silver items is more stable than "spot" (paper) silver.
Previous comments provide evidence that your quote is not true.
We all get what you are trying to say, but in the real world, the price one gets for their physical silver can vary greatly. The contention that physical price are stable is inaccurate, and especially so when considering the massive buy/sell spreads.
Paper silver provides a deep and liquid market for a small fee. The physical market is a small and fractured mess that can be very cumbersome, time consuming, inefficient and potentially very costly. I believe we can agree that we wish that wasn't the case.
Paper silver contracts follow the spot price closely (and in the case of near-term futures contracts they SET the "spot" price).
For these silver contracts, like any commodity contracts, the price is more volatile than the physical commodity price.
When the price of spot silver drops, people are reluctant to sell physical silver at the lower price. But hedgers, producers selling future production, and paper speculators are more likely to sell.
Likewise, when the price of spot silver spikes, people are more reluctant to pay the higher price for physical silver. But speculators covering short paper positions still need to buy. The couple times that spot silver was close to $50, nobody wanted to pay $50 for physical silver.
The market price for 90% silver coin and Silver Eagles is less volatile than the spot price and the market for these recognized silver items is very liquid.
An artificially low offer price is not an ACTIVE price. The quantity of transactions at such a price is minimal.
Just because some people are on a fishing trip to rip silver at well below the market price does not mean the real active market price for physical silver is unstable or difficult to obtain. Just go to a coin show and shop around a little.
Comments
Then what is your password to the brokerage account that holds SLV shares ?
Dcarrluvsme!
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
.> @cohodk said:
Not even a mother could love that face (avatar).
You should see Mom.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
That single ASE from APMEX now selling at an 88% premium (plus shipping).
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
I'd rather not.
Why the Definition of Inflation Matters
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
While doing some shopping for deals last weekend I am truly stunned by the premiums on ASEs. Who in the world is actually buying these things?
Using SD bullion as my example a monster box of 500 ASE from 2012 is 18,679.75 / 500 = 37.36 per ounce.
wtf. Who are the buyers? What propaganda did they swallow?
I will stick with my goofy bars near spot thank you.
edited to add: you guys like to debate too much. woo doggy. the last two pages made my head hurt.
The below link courtesy jmski..
https://www.scoins.com/pricelist/tradingsheet.aspx
Looks like one can get an ASE for about $33, with spot at 23. So much for 80-100% premiums (as claimed by some).
Also, nice $6 buy/sell spread, or about 20%. That's 40 years worth of 0.50% management fee for an ETF.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
And I bought some at a garage sale for spot.
Hey, you're the one who started this thread with APMEX as the control group to maintain a consistent measuring stick for premuiums. Now you're sounding like a government statistician who wants to change the formula to give the politicians the data that will get them the most votes.
Not surprised since in another thread you disagreed with the decades old method of determining how to define a recession.
Typical that you want to change the method of collecting/defining data since you are notorious for changing the words of others here in an attempt to make a completely different point that supports your narrative. Or, maybe like gutter boy, you just want to argure.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
That link shows Gold buffalos less than AGEs. I don’t recall seeing that before, not that I was necessarily looking.
is the spring sprung?
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
I think the whole mechanism is broken, but the spring may be springing anyway.
I do expect premiums to decrease if the price spikes, which it will.
I knew it would happen.
For the moment premiums seem to be down. Bgasc has 1 ounce silver rounds for spot +3 no minimum
+3 for silver rounds is above normal. Remember when ASE premiums were +3? Not really that long ago.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Doubtful, gutter is still sitting at $22 and change. The spring looks more broke than sprung. THKS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Challenging false and misleading narratives and commentary is called civic duty. If you consider it "changing words" then perhaps you should practice some introspection.
This is your thread and your idea. I just resurrected it when you cried after being challenged. Your false premise on ASE premiums has been proven just that. You don't even gaslight well.
None of your "what high premiums means" has been proven correct. Instead, nothing imploded and spot dropped nearly 50%.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
yet ASE premiums remain through the roof, lol
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
I agree they are still sky high. I just looked at a couple of the buy/sell sheets the spreads are still high but the premiums are down at wholesale, and ASEs are in stock. Don't know if its a trend or not.
ASEs will remain in stock as long as high prices attract sellers to the retailers.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Okay
Looking at the price of "spot" silver over the last 5 years, the peak was $29.37 in August 2020. The subsequent trough was $17.84 in September 2022. That is a drop of 39.26% , not "nearly 50%".
During that time, your SLV declined in market value by 39.26%, plus the 0.5% per year fees, results in a net drop in SLV value of 40.30% .
In September 2022 Silver Eagle coins cost about $31 (active retail price).
In August 2020, as best I can tell, Silver Eagle coins cost about $31 (active retail price).
So if you want to play the SLV card and point out the low (and going negative) premiums for that, then you are leaving out the most important part in that the market value of Silver Eagles apparently did not drop at all during that same time frame.
My numbers show a high of 30.35 (Feb 2021, when these discussions began) and low of 17.40, for a loss of 42.6%. Thats nearly 50%.
Also, the return on SLV is already net of fees.
Did you remember to subtract spreads, storage costs, transaction costs and shipping costs in your ASE computation? Didn't think so.
If you want to just throw out random dates, then why not use Apr 2011?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
All you have to do is go to the first post in this thread to see that an ASE was offered at almost $39. Then you state that in Sept 2022 ASEs were $31.
I hope we are in agreement that 31 is less than 39.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
.
I based my numbers on the daily closing bid price (for silver "spot") and an "active retail price" for Silver Eagles which is a price at which a reasonably large quantity of transactions is actually taking place (not necessarily the highest advertised sell price).
Even using your numbers :
For all of February 2021, maximum intra-day peak silver "spot": $30.35 (your number).
For all of September 2022, minimum intra-day low silver "spot": $17.34 (your number).
This is a decline of $13.01 which is 42.9% of $30.35 .
Adding in the loss due to SLV fees, the net loss in value of a share of SLV over this time frame is 43.7% .
As for Silver Eagles, this thread only goes back to May 2021. At that time, the APMEX Silver Eagle price was $38.62 .
On September 23 2022 the closing price of silver was $18.83 and the APMEX Silver Eagle price was 74.4% above that (according to a September 23 2022 post in this thread). That means the September 23 2022 APMEX Silver Eagle price was $32.84 .
Going from $38.62 to $32.84 would indicate a loss of just under 15% as a worst-case scenario (the worst possible market timing of the last 5 years on silver "spot" for the time to buy and the time to sell).
I hope we are in agreement that a loss of over 43% in SLV is a LOT worse than a loss of less than 15% in Silver Eagles.
.
Now suppose you had bought silver at the peak intra-day maximum of the last 5 years, and then sold today.
For SLV, it would have been $30.35 in September 2022.
Selling today would yield $22.26 which is a loss of 26.65% and the net loss with fees would be 27.30% .
For Silver Eagles, the September 2022 APMEX price was about $32.84 .
Today's APMEX Silver Eagle price (as of right now) is $39.49 .
That would amount to a GAIN of 20.25% .
I hope we are in agreement that a GAIN of over 20% in Silver Eagles is a LOT better than a LOSS of over 27% in SLV.
.
PS:
Storage and transaction costs for Silver Eagles is optional to the owner. You have a choice on how to handle these and what to pay (if anything).
For SLV, the fees are mandatory and baked into it. You have no choice but to let them eat 0.5% of your holding every year.
a GAIN of over 20% in Silver Eagles is a LOT better than a LOSS of over 27% in SLV
Not if you subscribe to coho's fuzzy logic narrative-pushing math methods.
He should keep buying bonds - it's right for him.
I knew it would happen.
Looks like wholesale premiums for most silver bullion is still dropping. Do you think we are seeing a trend or something temporary?
SLV was 30.35 in Sept 2022? Lol
At least try to gaslight with facts.
Try again.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Corrected:
Now suppose you had bought silver at the peak intra-day maximum of the last 5 years, and then sold today.
For SLV, it would have been $27.98 on 01 February 2021.
Selling on 05 December 2022 would yield $20.40 which is a loss of 27.10% (about the same as I had erroneously calculated before).
For Silver Eagles, the 01 February 2021 APMEX price is not certain, but I think it was around $39.
The APMEX Silver Eagle price (on 05 December) is $39.49 .
That would be basically a break-even situation.
I hope we are in agreement that a small gain of less than 1% in Silver Eagles is a LOT better than a LOSS of over 27% in SLV.
For there is no loss unless you sell, (ive been told), what was the bid price for ASE on Dec 05 2022?
Your extremely specific example uses bid price for SLV and ask price for ASE.
Try again.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Wholesale - Bid price for random date ASE are +3.00 to +6.50 on 12/9.
I didn't use Silver Eagle "buy" price for 01 February and Silver Eagle "sell" price for 05 December 2022.
I used the same benchmark for both the buy and sell on Silver Eagles. Same for SLV - same benchmark for SLV buy and SLV sell.
But if the APMEX (or similar) buy-back price is $4 (or any other amount) less than their sell price, then it sill works out about the same. If I use APMEX buy-back price instead of their sell price, it is still close to break-even on Silver Eagles during that time span and a loss of 27% on SLV.
Also note that it is not necessary to use AMPEX (or similar) for buy and sell. A person can get better margins if they go to (or set up at) a coin show, for example. You can't sell your SLV shares for cash at a coin show.
The point of all this is that the price of Silver Eagles is less volatile than the "spot" price of silver, or the SLV price.
If "spot" silver drops, Silver Eagles (or any recognizable form of physical silver) hold value a lot better than SLV.
Gutter goes up gutter goes down. What's for certain is those that have hoarded the physical gutter for the last decade, heck even 4 decades have made a terrible investment. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Buying at the highest peaks in any market, for ANY type of asset, usually doesn't work out well. This is just as true for stocks as it is for commodities.
50-year silver price chart:
Silver premiums are undoubtedly coming down...the site I follow was paying +11.50 for ASE and they are now down to +5.00. That's a huge drop. The premium for 90% is also down from +9 for halves to +1 or +2. Premiums dropping fast!
Yes, as usual it's about supply and demand and what dictates prices. The premium to spot is a living, breathing component/function of said.
And it's been said over and over. Still, the value is in the debate.
I am seeing the same thing. Wholesale buy premiums are dropping on almost all silver products. Wholesale sell prices are also dropping but not as fast.
Some here will lose their minds once reality sinks in and their artificial premiums are gone. My paper gutter continues to rise, the physical gutter not so much. You could see it coming 1000 miles away. Childs play. LOL THKS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
For 400 backdate American Silver Eagles fresh in tubes, local dealers paying spot to $2/over (were at $3-$6 last couple years)- APMEX quoted spot...
Successful BST Transactions with: PerryHall, MrSlider, Cent1225, SurfinxHI, Blu62vette, robkool, gowithmygut, coinlieutenant, Downtown1974, MilesWaits, Shrub68, justindan
So dcarr, how does this real world observation fit your narrative?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
My "artificial" premiums are secure in my bank. LOL
Let us know when you paper rises back to where it was last March.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
sounds like wholesale is not retail. Is this new to you? Question is "what are those local dealers selling the ASEs for?" Wholesale premiums and retail premiums are two different animals.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
With spot at $23.10 today, retail bullion dealer A is selling ASEs individually at $34.13 and buying them back at $26.62. Dealer B is selling at $40.25 and buying back at $28.38. These are internet price listings for two of the larger bullion shops. Dealer B was offering $33 to sell your eagles back to them 1 month ago. So there is some divergence In typical retail sales prices ($34 vs $40) but the buy back price offers have definitely gone down.
Those "local dealers" are cheapskates, not market makers. Most of the time, such people only want to buy super low and immediately flip them to a real dealer.
Who here would sell their Silver Eagles for $2 over spot (or less) right now ?
My point continues to hold true -
When silver "spot" declienes, premiums on physical silver go up.
And the net effect is that the market value of the physical silver items is more stable than "spot" (paper) silver.
Did you ask what those dealers were selling them for, and how many did they have available ?
Life in the gutter, you get less and they get more. It's certainly not rocket science. THKS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Whenever I encountered someone offering an abnormally low buy price I would ask what would they sell it for.
And the answer was invariably that they didn't have any available.
Seems like one form of silver may require many more hoops and potential pitfalls to jump through than another.
Previous comments provide evidence that your quote is not true.
We all get what you are trying to say, but in the real world, the price one gets for their physical silver can vary greatly. The contention that physical price are stable is inaccurate, and especially so when considering the massive buy/sell spreads.
Paper silver provides a deep and liquid market for a small fee. The physical market is a small and fractured mess that can be very cumbersome, time consuming, inefficient and potentially very costly. I believe we can agree that we wish that wasn't the case.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Paper silver contracts follow the spot price closely (and in the case of near-term futures contracts they SET the "spot" price).
For these silver contracts, like any commodity contracts, the price is more volatile than the physical commodity price.
When the price of spot silver drops, people are reluctant to sell physical silver at the lower price. But hedgers, producers selling future production, and paper speculators are more likely to sell.
Likewise, when the price of spot silver spikes, people are more reluctant to pay the higher price for physical silver. But speculators covering short paper positions still need to buy. The couple times that spot silver was close to $50, nobody wanted to pay $50 for physical silver.
The market price for 90% silver coin and Silver Eagles is less volatile than the spot price and the market for these recognized silver items is very liquid.
An artificially low offer price is not an ACTIVE price. The quantity of transactions at such a price is minimal.
Just because some people are on a fishing trip to rip silver at well below the market price does not mean the real active market price for physical silver is unstable or difficult to obtain. Just go to a coin show and shop around a little.