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I really Really REALLY like Ike: 3 piece Eisenhower Dollar sells for over $100,000!

ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited November 6, 2021 10:26AM in U.S. Coin Forum

Anyone follow this one? I think the reserve was something like $30K or $50K.

Won by a phone bidder as well!

Any way to identify the date by die markers?

https://coins.ha.com/itm/errors/undated-three-piece-clover-leaf-eisenhower-dollar-struck-on-clad-dime-planchets-pr68-ultra-cameo-ngc/a/1329-5090.s?

See below for PCGS slabbed specimen.

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Comments

  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 4,095 ✭✭✭✭✭

    These have been popping up suddenly. I know of two other similar sets.

  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,507 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Link to the auction please. I’d really like to read the lot description on that one.

    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MWallace said:
    These have been popping up suddenly. I know of two other similar sets.

    I've seen a few too. How long have these been known to the hobby?

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 3,002 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PCGS may not grade it. It might be fake

  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @MWallace said:
    These have been popping up suddenly. I know of two other similar sets.

    I've seen a few too. How long have these been known to the hobby?

    since that safety deposit box was cracked open

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1, 2021 9:46AM

    @TurtleCat said:
    While cool to look at, there's no way this happened without help. IMO that makes the value far less than something that happened without help.

    Given that it's worth $105,000, what errors are worth more, with or without help?

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @Zoins said:

    @MWallace said:
    These have been popping up suddenly. I know of two other similar sets.

    I've seen a few too. How long have these been known to the hobby?

    since that safety deposit box was cracked open

    Do we know anything about the safety deposit box?

    Can we give it a "hoard" name? :)

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1, 2021 10:01AM

    @jt88 said:
    PCGS may not grade it. It might be fake

    You might be surprised.

    This one is from @FredWeinberg here:

    https://www.fredweinberg.com/product/1971-4-ike-dollar-on-clad-dime-pcgs-proof-67-cameo/

    The flat side looks like it may have been pressed up against another planchet.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,480 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jt88 said:
    PCGS may not grade it. It might be fake

    I’ve never seen or even heard of a “fake” of that type.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @Zoins said:

    @MWallace said:
    These have been popping up suddenly. I know of two other similar sets.

    I've seen a few too. How long have these been known to the hobby?

    since that safety deposit box was cracked open

    Do we know anything about the safety deposit box?

    Can we give it a "hoard" name? :)

    Ask Fred.

  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 4,095 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @MWallace said:
    These have been popping up suddenly. I know of two other similar sets.

    I've seen a few too. How long have these been known to the hobby?

    Not that this means anything. I of course was not privy to everything, but I've collected error coins since the 1970s. I had a particular interest in mated chain strikes. I never saw or heard anything about these until a coupe of months ago when they started popping up.

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭✭✭

    JT 88- these are genuine and PCGS certifies the Ike off metals as well.

    Fred’s proof PCGS Ike on Dime is part of a mated chain strike pair.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,600 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1, 2021 10:08AM

    @Zoins said:

    @TurtleCat said:
    While cool to look at, there's no way this happened without help. IMO that makes the value far less than something that happened without help.

    Given that it's worth $105,000, what errors are worth more, with or without help?

    Sure, it’s worth that because someone paid it. That doesn’t mean I value it the same. That’s the M in IMO.

  • TomBTomB Posts: 21,222 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think that mythical safe deposit box was bottomless...

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • ByersByers Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭✭✭

    TomB - it’s NOT mythical:

    A very small group of Proof errors recently came from a collection that was auctioned by the State of California. The U.S. Secret Service inspected and released this collection to the State of California determining that it was legal to own. The State of California then auctioned the collection and it has been dispersed since the sale.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • ByersByers Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Zions- HA had a 50k reserve. There was another phone bidder who dropped out at 100k.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,311 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting piece....I wonder if there are MORE of these?

    STRONG price.

    Not in my sphere of interest.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1, 2021 10:22AM

    @Byers said:
    TomB - it’s NOT mythical:

    A very small group of Proof errors recently came from a collection that was auctioned by the State of California. The U.S. Secret Service inspected and released this collection to the State of California determining that it was legal to own. The State of California then auctioned the collection and it has been dispersed since the sale.

    Great info. Did the Secret Service provide a letter regarding their decision?

    Can we call this the State of California Hoard? Or at least a mini-hoard?

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,480 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @Byers said:
    TomB - it’s NOT mythical:

    A very small group of Proof errors recently came from a collection that was auctioned by the State of California. The U.S. Secret Service inspected and released this collection to the State of California determining that it was legal to own. The State of California then auctioned the collection and it has been dispersed since the sale.

    Great info. Did the Secret Service provide a letter regarding their decision?

    Can we call this the State of California Hoard? Or at least a mini-hoard?

    That sounds overly broad and doesn’t let readers know what you’re talking about.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Walkerfan- here is the other set:

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • ByersByers Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Zions- the unique proof Ike clover leaf and the unique proof Ike mated in copper were not part of the safety deposit box deal. Both of these sets came from a recent collection that was put away 45 years ago.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Although I do not collect errors, I really enjoy seeing them. Some, such as these, leave a large question mark in my thoughts at to how they originated. A bit of hanky panky is not a far fetched possibility. Cheers, RickO

  • bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,350 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    Although I do not collect errors, I really enjoy seeing them. Some, such as these, leave a large question mark in my thoughts at to how they originated. A bit of hanky panky is not a far fetched possibility. Cheers, Ricko.

    *
    *
    Forced Errors

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,480 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bolivarshagnasty said:

    @ricko said:
    Although I do not collect errors, I really enjoy seeing them. Some, such as these, leave a large question mark in my thoughts at to how they originated. A bit of hanky panky is not a far fetched possibility. Cheers, Ricko.

    *
    *
    Forced Errors

    If it’s forced (as in intentional), is it an error?

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,963 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tincup said:
    Probably 1971. Lots of shenanigans took place at the US Mint in that year and a few others. No way (that I can see) that this was made without some special help.

    I was going to say 1973. Probably made right after this one:

  • bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,350 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Same argument as "market acceptable toning". My opinion is no.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @bolivarshagnasty said:

    @ricko said:
    Although I do not collect errors, I really enjoy seeing them. Some, such as these, leave a large question mark in my thoughts at to how they originated. A bit of hanky panky is not a far fetched possibility. Cheers, Ricko.

    *
    *
    Forced Errors

    If it’s forced (as in intentional), is it an error?

    It’s certainly an error in mint process to create these and to have left the mint!

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld.... That has long been the question Mark.... Though it seems they command higher prices than errors that are clearly process oriented. I would call them 'rogue coins'... No doubt they likely came from the mint, but not through a standard minting process. Cheers, RickO

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,480 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @MFeld said:

    @bolivarshagnasty said:

    @ricko said:
    Although I do not collect errors, I really enjoy seeing them. Some, such as these, leave a large question mark in my thoughts at to how they originated. A bit of hanky panky is not a far fetched possibility. Cheers, Ricko.

    *
    *
    Forced Errors

    If it’s forced (as in intentional), is it an error?

    It’s certainly an error in mint process to create these and to have left the mint!

    I looked up the definition of “error”, and it doesn’t appear that intent negates the applicability of the term.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,141 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Years ago I saw one of the Folderol Proofs (tm) that was just one Lincoln cent planchet struck like this in a dollar press, with two straight edges 120 degrees apart that prove there were three planchets in the press at the time.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • ByersByers Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Mint Error News did a Special Edition on the 3 different Mated Proof Ike Dollar sets with the Heritage Cover being the Clover Leaf that sold for $105k.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1, 2021 1:06PM

    @Byers said:
    Mint Error News did a Special Edition on the 3 different Mated Proof Ike Dollar sets with the Heritage Cover being the Clover Leaf that sold for $105k.

    Do you think this should be one of the 100 Greatest U.S. Error Coins?

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Zions- of course!

    If price is any indication, mint errors that sell for six figures belong on any short list.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1, 2021 2:13PM

    This one is also super cool.

    I found the link to the article : https://mikebyers.com/5911286-001-003.html

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1, 2021 4:03PM

    @tincup said:
    Probably 1971. Lots of shenanigans took place at the US Mint in that year and a few others. No way (that I can see) that this was made without some special help.

    @Byers said:
    Mint Error News did a Special Edition on the 3 different Mated Proof Ike Dollar sets with the Heritage Cover being the Clover Leaf that sold for $105k.

    Great article and answers one of my questions on this:

    Heritage wrote:

    Only the 1 in the date is present, and the mintmark is absent, but Earth is complete, and confirms the reverse is Type Two, struck in proof format only during 1971 and 1972.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1, 2021 3:31PM

    @Byers said:
    Zions- of course!

    If price is any indication, mint errors that sell for six figures belong on any short list.

    How many errors have sold for 6 figures? I've looked at the prices of some great errors and can't imagine there are very many.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:
    This one is also super cool.

    I found the link to the article : https://mikebyers.com/5911286-001-003.html

    The dime and cent planchet piece is awesome is as well :+1:

    This one has a great Mike Byers provenance!

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Zions- Mint Error News published an article a few years ago on the highest prices paid for mint error coins.

    Having said that, I will have to dig out the link.

    Furthermore, since many mint errors have set record prices recently, the next issue of Mint Error News Magazine will have an updated version of that article!

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,350 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @Zoins said:

    @MFeld said:

    @bolivarshagnasty said:

    @ricko said:
    Although I do not collect errors, I really enjoy seeing them. Some, such as these, leave a large question mark in my thoughts at to how they originated. A bit of hanky panky is not a far fetched possibility. Cheers, Ricko.

    *
    *
    Forced Errors

    If it’s forced (as in intentional), is it an error?

    It’s certainly an error in mint process to create these and to have left the mint!

    I looked up the definition of “error”, and it doesn’t appear that intent negates the applicability of the term.

    When the word is used in a numismatic reference, it would imply that the mint made a mistake or accident happened. Three small coins being struck between Ike dies was not accidental. Who here believes that is possible?

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭

    From the lot description:

    "A showstopper mint error on a popular obsolete type."

    If it's done intentionally, is it really an error?

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1, 2021 4:07PM

    As much as people take exception with intentional oddities being called errors, that's is what the hobby uses:

    • Error includes intentionally struck oddities
    • Pattern includes fantasy coins made only to sell to collectors
    • Restrike includes replicas struck from copy dies

    I wonder if I'll ever see a TPG relabel a "New Haven Restrike" as a "Horatio Rust Fantasy" in my lifetime.

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm part of the hobby. I don't agree that these intentionally created items are errors. Calling them that is how they get legitimatized. Which is fine, I suppose, if that's what people want and there's money to be made.

    Not for me, though.

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Zions- you have a very valid point. Many intentionally custom ordered off metal and fantasy mule combinations of Pattern U.S. coins were struck for specific customers, yet listed as patterns in the Judd book with Judd numbers.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1, 2021 4:00PM

    @Byers said:
    Zions- you have a very valid point. Many intentionally custom ordered off metal and fantasy mule combinations of Pattern U.S. coins were struck for specific customers, yet listed as patterns in the Judd book with Judd numbers.

    It's certainly an interesting situation. I've raised this with @MrEureka who indicated that one reason that this is done is that for some patterns it's hard to tell what is legitimate vs. custom ordered, so they are all considered the same.

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    It's certainly an interesting situation. I've raised this with @MrEureka who indicated that one reason that this is done is that for some patterns it's hard to tell what is legitimate vs. custom ordered, so they are all considered the same.

    Good point. So- how do three dime planchets legitimately find their way into a dollar press?

    Rhetorical question.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1, 2021 4:06PM

    @MasonG said:

    @Zoins said:
    It's certainly an interesting situation. I've raised this with @MrEureka who indicated that one reason that this is done is that for some patterns it's hard to tell what is legitimate vs. custom ordered, so they are all considered the same.

    Good point. So- how do three dime planchets legitimately find their way into a dollar press?

    Rhetorical question.

    It's an interesting question, but it seems that it's not really relevant to classification as an error. Even if everyone recognizes it may have been done intentionally, it's still qualified to be called an error.

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you say so.

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