@olympicsos said:
The best way to deal with this is to officially announce that there will be 2022 Morgan & Peace Dollars. You miss your chance in 2021, you'll have another one in 2022. Or another idea would be to have decided against issuing 2021 silver proof set and reallocate the limited silver to make more Morgan and Peace Dollars since silver dollars are more popular than silver dimes, quarters and halves.
How would that fix the website?
A 2022 coin doesn't commemorate the 100th anniversary of anything.
You can also strike all the coins this year and simply release them in 2022 if you think, for no reason, that they can fix the software/infrastructure next year but not this year.
@olympicsos said:
The best way to deal with this is to officially announce that there will be 2022 Morgan & Peace Dollars. You miss your chance in 2021, you'll have another one in 2022. Or another idea would be to have decided against issuing 2021 silver proof set and reallocate the limited silver to make more Morgan and Peace Dollars since silver dollars are more popular than silver dimes, quarters and halves.
How would that fix the website?
A 2022 coin doesn't commemorate the 100th anniversary of anything.
You can also strike all the coins this year and simply release them in 2022 if you think, for no reason, that they can fix the software/infrastructure next year but not this year.
There's demand to make the Morgan and Peace Dollars an annual series. Even if the US Mint fixes the software/infrastructure, silver dollars are so popular that not everyone will be able to get a coin direct from the mint. If the US Mint says there's limited silver, they could have skipped having a 2021 silver proof set and reallocate that silver to increase the mintage/product limits for the 2021 silver dollars since silver dollars are more popular than Roosevelt Dimes, ATB Quarters, Kennedy Halves.
What will the mint try now? Captcha was terrible, refresh lock-outs were a nightmare, bad gateway wasn't much fun...this is truly a version of musical chairs.
Perhaps a voice recognition system like Alexa?
Maybe the mint will develop some type of reservation system.
Perhaps you will need to wait in line for hours (on-line) to purchase.
How about raising the prices so high the number of purchasers would diminish.
Maybe they come up with an in house purchasing card that you have to pay dues on yearly...the mint club card.
How about releasing them at random times so nobody knows when to buy them.
All terrible ideas mind you.
The problem remains the same...100,000 people calling in at the same time.
@olympicsos said:
The best way to deal with this is to officially announce that there will be 2022 Morgan & Peace Dollars. You miss your chance in 2021, you'll have another one in 2022. Or another idea would be to have decided against issuing 2021 silver proof set and reallocate the limited silver to make more Morgan and Peace Dollars since silver dollars are more popular than silver dimes, quarters and halves.
How would that fix the website?
A 2022 coin doesn't commemorate the 100th anniversary of anything.
You can also strike all the coins this year and simply release them in 2022 if you think, for no reason, that they can fix the software/infrastructure next year but not this year.
There's demand to make the Morgan and Peace Dollars an annual series. Even if the US Mint fixes the software/infrastructure, silver dollars are so popular that not everyone will be able to get a coin direct from the mint. If the US Mint says there's limited silver, they could have skipped having a 2021 silver proof set and reallocate that silver to increase the mintage/product limits for the 2021 silver dollars since silver dollars are more popular than Roosevelt Dimes, ATB Quarters, Kennedy Halves.
They didn't say there was limited silver. They said there was high demand...which is why they are fixing the website to create a "positive" customer experience. They are saying there are more buyers than coins not that they couldn't strike more coins.
[[As the demand for silver remains greater than the supply, the reality is such that not everyone will be able to purchase a coin.]]?????
OK...having just read the Mint notice three times...I ask this...why are they mixing message here?
The worldwide silver shortage and their website technical issues are two separate, but important, issues!
Now don't get me wrong...if they do anything to improve the ordering issues, that would be great. But that has nothing to do with silver availability. Are they implying that they're unable to get the planchets to mint the remaining coins?
@RichR said:
OK...having just read the Mint notice three times...I ask this...why are they mixing message here?
The worldwide silver shortage and their website technical issues are two separate, but important, issues!
Now don't get me wrong...if they do anything to improve the ordering issues, that would be great. But that has nothing to do with silver availability. Are they implying that they're unable to get the planchets to mint the remaining coins?
If so, that's an even bigger problem!
They aren't "mixing messages". They are saying they have a demand problem and want to improve the website to handle the demand. Personally, it is a stupid argument for the demand problem. It isn't bullion silver eagles that crash the website. It is limited edition releases at a specific minute in time that crash the website.
They are NOT indicating any inability to get planchets. In fact, they previously said they had acquired the 1.075 million planchets for these.
Maybe they're implying these items wouldn't be so popular if silver coins were more readily available. If these items weren't so in demand, there wouldn't be a problem ordering them. I think they're trying their best to figure out how to cope. Time will tell.
@spotthedog said:
Maybe they're implying these items wouldn't be so popular if silver coins were more readily available. If these items weren't so in demand, there wouldn't be a problem ordering them. I think they're trying their best to figure out how to cope. Time will tell.
I think they are trying to blame the "globe" for the Mint created supply problem. No one is buying these because they can't find other bullion.
[[As the demand for silver remains greater than the supply, the reality is such that not everyone will be able to purchase a coin.]]
My point is this guys...why is the word "silver" even in their message?
If you have a crap ordering system...just say that you need to address it before the next phase of sales. Does it matter if your product is made of silver, gold, or platinum?
And PS...that's fine by me because I was banking on an absolute train wreck on Tuesday...so more power to them.
As far as I'm concerned, they should lower the HHL and extend the chaos period...at least then we might have an hour to jam through the door instead of 20 minutes!
@RichR said:
[[As the demand for silver remains greater than the supply, the reality is such that not everyone will be able to purchase a coin.]]
My point is this guys...why is the word "silver" even in their message?
If you have a crap ordering system...just say that you need to address it before the next phase of sales. Does it matter if your product is made of silver, gold, or platinum?
It doesn't. It's a lame excuse. They didn't suspend silver eagle sales...which requires far more silver than commemorative coins. If silver, generically, were the problem, they would have suspended all silver sales.
You all are reading too much into the letter. They are blaming the demand/amount of people trying for this on the popularity of silver right now. Whether that’s true in relation to this product doesn’t really matter, I think it’s more the offers to buy that get picked up on money blogs. Is all the letter is saying is the website crashed and people are upset we will try to fix it.
@Dollar2007 said:
You all are reading too much into the letter. They are blaming the demand/amount of people trying for this on the popularity of silver right now. Whether that’s true in relation to this product doesn’t really matter, I think it’s more the offers to buy that get picked up on money blogs. Is all the letter is saying is the website crashed and people are upset we will try to fix it.
I'm not reading anything into the letter other than they want to fix their website to accommodate more traffic. I just think it's funny that they are trying to blame "global" silver demand for a non-bullion product release causing a 10 minute traffic problem on their website. I can go on there all day long and buy as much silver as I want.
My wife...who knows nothing about coin goings on...heard me cackling after reading the Mint message, rolled over in bed, and said, "Their website is from Hunger...FIX IT!"
They could open a Mint To Demand (MTD) product line. Have engravers throw out some cool coin designs and open the ordering window. If more than XX,XXX orders made, they make the product. If less, they don't.
That's on top of the regular issues that could be MTD'ed.
I do find it amusing that the Mint decided to take orders on a coin that they themselves have decided not to ship until October...which in turn has caused a feeding frenzy and price spikes in the secondary market.
Why do I think that it's these secondary price spikes, and not the Mint's messed up ordering system, that's driven this decision?
For some reason, the Mint only seems to act when there's money being made by others in the secondary market...despite the fact that it's their actions that set the train in motion.
This is a system that has been gamed for years. By many people commenting on this thread, as they use multiple credit cards with multiple addresses to gain an advantage.
The issue is the systemic. Bots: Obvious issue.
Multiple orders by the same person gaming the household limits. Big issue.
Dealers employing multiple confederates. Who doesn’t seek the edge in competition??
High demand Mint product dopers get better at avoiding detection.
The aftermarket showing a big gain and then flattening out.
Releasing high demand coins at the same time on the same day. Ouch. Fun. Intense. Dig the rush. Roll the dice. Adrenaline, then relief or frustration.
The Mint has their hands full with the increased emphasis on social media fairness.
It’s gonna be even more fun come the changes.
They own the game. Same players.
@RichR said:
Who was that guy alone in the middle of a field in Connecticut last week...who got right through?
He's going to have lots of company in the future!
Not only in the middle of a field, but he used a hand crank powered phone. The last time he ordered from the Mint, he climbed up to the top of a telephone pole and used the Green Acres phone.
I'm old enough to remember when you received something called a paper order form in something called the mail, and you filled it out and stuck something called a stamp on that thingy, what was it called? Oh yeah, an envelope, and mailed it back to the Mint.
And there were order limits, usually 5 per address (even for normal things like mint and proof sets), and after the Mint did their best to reconcile orders, they started shipping. And sometimes they reduced the limit from 5 to a lower number for overall fairness.
But that required work on their part...and we don't want that now, do we?
Meanwhile, what I just described was probably accomplished by 20 blue-haired old ladies with glasses hanging on chains around their necks!
Fix the website, reduce HHL to 2, reduce mintage number to 50,000, eliminate that 10% dealer thing and badda boom, badda bing, more people get less coins and it eliminates the silver demand issue somewhat.
Comments
How would that fix the website?
A 2022 coin doesn't commemorate the 100th anniversary of anything.
You can also strike all the coins this year and simply release them in 2022 if you think, for no reason, that they can fix the software/infrastructure next year but not this year.
There's demand to make the Morgan and Peace Dollars an annual series. Even if the US Mint fixes the software/infrastructure, silver dollars are so popular that not everyone will be able to get a coin direct from the mint. If the US Mint says there's limited silver, they could have skipped having a 2021 silver proof set and reallocate that silver to increase the mintage/product limits for the 2021 silver dollars since silver dollars are more popular than Roosevelt Dimes, ATB Quarters, Kennedy Halves.
What will the mint try now? Captcha was terrible, refresh lock-outs were a nightmare, bad gateway wasn't much fun...this is truly a version of musical chairs.
Perhaps a voice recognition system like Alexa?
Maybe the mint will develop some type of reservation system.
Perhaps you will need to wait in line for hours (on-line) to purchase.
How about raising the prices so high the number of purchasers would diminish.
Maybe they come up with an in house purchasing card that you have to pay dues on yearly...the mint club card.
How about releasing them at random times so nobody knows when to buy them.
All terrible ideas mind you.
The problem remains the same...100,000 people calling in at the same time.
This calls for a new T-Shirt.
They didn't say there was limited silver. They said there was high demand...which is why they are fixing the website to create a "positive" customer experience. They are saying there are more buyers than coins not that they couldn't strike more coins.
Mmmmm..."The global silver shortage has driven demand for many of our bullion".(from the mint)
[[As the demand for silver remains greater than the supply, the reality is such that not everyone will be able to purchase a coin.]]?????
OK...having just read the Mint notice three times...I ask this...why are they mixing message here?
The worldwide silver shortage and their website technical issues are two separate, but important, issues!
Now don't get me wrong...if they do anything to improve the ordering issues, that would be great. But that has nothing to do with silver availability. Are they implying that they're unable to get the planchets to mint the remaining coins?
If so, that's an even bigger problem!
They aren't "mixing messages". They are saying they have a demand problem and want to improve the website to handle the demand. Personally, it is a stupid argument for the demand problem. It isn't bullion silver eagles that crash the website. It is limited edition releases at a specific minute in time that crash the website.
They are NOT indicating any inability to get planchets. In fact, they previously said they had acquired the 1.075 million planchets for these.
Maybe they're implying these items wouldn't be so popular if silver coins were more readily available. If these items weren't so in demand, there wouldn't be a problem ordering them. I think they're trying their best to figure out how to cope. Time will tell.
I think they are trying to blame the "globe" for the Mint created supply problem. No one is buying these because they can't find other bullion.
[[As the demand for silver remains greater than the supply, the reality is such that not everyone will be able to purchase a coin.]]
My point is this guys...why is the word "silver" even in their message?
If you have a crap ordering system...just say that you need to address it before the next phase of sales. Does it matter if your product is made of silver, gold, or platinum?
And PS...that's fine by me because I was banking on an absolute train wreck on Tuesday...so more power to them.
As far as I'm concerned, they should lower the HHL and extend the chaos period...at least then we might have an hour to jam through the door instead of 20 minutes!
It doesn't. It's a lame excuse. They didn't suspend silver eagle sales...which requires far more silver than commemorative coins. If silver, generically, were the problem, they would have suspended all silver sales.
If a global silver shortage were creating demand for $85 bullion coins, the spot price of silver would be $85.
You all are reading too much into the letter. They are blaming the demand/amount of people trying for this on the popularity of silver right now. Whether that’s true in relation to this product doesn’t really matter, I think it’s more the offers to buy that get picked up on money blogs. Is all the letter is saying is the website crashed and people are upset we will try to fix it.
From: The Mint
To: All You Animals
That's it...you caused us to drop our donuts in our coffee last week...and now we've had it with all of you.
Plus our tech geek has now quit in disgust and gone back to daytrading in Gamestock!
As a result, we've decided to sew all the remaining Morgan and Peace dollars into big canvas bags and throw them into the Potomac River.
So go fish them out yourselves!
And this is why you people can't have nice things!
PS...we've also cancelled all your credit cards!
either mint to demand; ordering window from x to y, close it, ship.
or
Dutch style. Sell 100,000 coins opening price is high, say $1,000 and drops $25 every 30 minutes until they are all sold.
I'm not reading anything into the letter other than they want to fix their website to accommodate more traffic. I just think it's funny that they are trying to blame "global" silver demand for a non-bullion product release causing a 10 minute traffic problem on their website. I can go on there all day long and buy as much silver as I want.
Mint to demand would really make sense.
Then they could actually mint fewer of them.
[[Mint to demand would really make sense.]]
But the silver...THE SILVER!!!!
so does this mean they aren't selling any more O or CC?
My wife...who knows nothing about coin goings on...heard me cackling after reading the Mint message, rolled over in bed, and said, "Their website is from Hunger...FIX IT!"
They could open a Mint To Demand (MTD) product line. Have engravers throw out some cool coin designs and open the ordering window. If more than XX,XXX orders made, they make the product. If less, they don't.
That's on top of the regular issues that could be MTD'ed.
[[so does this mean they aren't selling any more O or CC?]]
Let me translate this "But other than that Mrs. Lincoln...how was the show?"
if I were a betting man, i think they will retroactively apply order limits to the O and CC
They have done that many times before as well
That could push the price up
Price wise—no for the ones offered already; but limiting larger orders back down to 10 is a possibility
[[if I were a betting man, i think they will retroactively apply order limits to the O and CC]]
That would not be kosher unless you can trace back many accounts to the same source.
Huh?
I do find it amusing that the Mint decided to take orders on a coin that they themselves have decided not to ship until October...which in turn has caused a feeding frenzy and price spikes in the secondary market.
Why do I think that it's these secondary price spikes, and not the Mint's messed up ordering system, that's driven this decision?
For some reason, the Mint only seems to act when there's money being made by others in the secondary market...despite the fact that it's their actions that set the train in motion.
The USM on previous issues has limited retroactively large orders down to the initial lower limit.
It has been done before guys.
Don't take orders away from those that got more than 10 but do limit those who want more than 10 going forward, i think.
Commenting on price changes. Those purchased already—they would not change the transaction price. Those offered later—anyone’s guess
how about those that got more than 10 have their "over limit" orders canceled but get a gold version as a gesture of good will.
no release today yet.
Loves me some shiny!
I just want a 2021 P Morgan for a pocket piece.
This is a system that has been gamed for years. By many people commenting on this thread, as they use multiple credit cards with multiple addresses to gain an advantage.
The issue is the systemic. Bots: Obvious issue.
Multiple orders by the same person gaming the household limits. Big issue.
Dealers employing multiple confederates. Who doesn’t seek the edge in competition??
High demand Mint product dopers get better at avoiding detection.
The aftermarket showing a big gain and then flattening out.
Releasing high demand coins at the same time on the same day. Ouch. Fun. Intense. Dig the rush. Roll the dice. Adrenaline, then relief or frustration.
The Mint has their hands full with the increased emphasis on social media fairness.
It’s gonna be even more fun come the changes.
They own the game. Same players.
don't hate the player, hate the game
Love it all. Bring it on.
The mint probably just decided jamming all this free publicity into just a 3 week period was a total waste of the hype train.
Who was that guy alone in the middle of a field in Connecticut last week...who got right through?
He's going to have lots of company in the future!
It's part of the agricultural stimulus plan! Wouldn't it be something if the mint throttled IP addresses regionally?
Not only in the middle of a field, but he used a hand crank powered phone. The last time he ordered from the Mint, he climbed up to the top of a telephone pole and used the Green Acres phone.
I'm old enough to remember when you received something called a paper order form in something called the mail, and you filled it out and stuck something called a stamp on that thingy, what was it called? Oh yeah, an envelope, and mailed it back to the Mint.
And there were order limits, usually 5 per address (even for normal things like mint and proof sets), and after the Mint did their best to reconcile orders, they started shipping. And sometimes they reduced the limit from 5 to a lower number for overall fairness.
But that required work on their part...and we don't want that now, do we?
Meanwhile, what I just described was probably accomplished by 20 blue-haired old ladies with glasses hanging on chains around their necks!
my very first US mint "mail" order was for a 2001 American Buffalo coin in college. I got a letter that they sold out... The rest is history.
My first US Mint mail order was for a 1969 Proof set. I remember how excited I was to be able to order it directly. I think it cost $5.00...
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
Fix the website, reduce HHL to 2, reduce mintage number to 50,000, eliminate that 10% dealer thing and badda boom, badda bing, more people get less coins and it eliminates the silver demand issue somewhat.
Anyone trying to get the O or CC coins today? Any luck yet?
Nothing today as of 10:30