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1933$20

tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,071 ✭✭✭✭✭

In auction this summer

«134567

Comments

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Melt?

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,583 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What is really interesting to me is that this finally debunks the myth that the mint was the anonymous buyer of the ‘33 in order to keep it out of private hands.

  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,707 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Any early estimates?

  • CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2021 11:36AM

    Queen Elizabeth is a world-class stamp collector, and the one-cent magenta is said to have eluded her grandfather George V. Gotta believe she'll have an agent there.

    The idea of selling the three unique items (1933 $20, inverted Jenny plate block, and 1856 magenta) all at once will create lots of buzz. Sotheby's estimates $37m for the three lots.

    Auction date is June 8.

  • bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,341 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Isn't the '33 the Farouk specimen? The article didn't mention him.

  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,707 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bolivarshagnasty said:
    Isn't the '33 the Farouk specimen? The article didn't mention him.

    Yes it is

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,071 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Broadstruck said:

    @Boosibri said:
    Any early estimates?

    $10,000,000.01 ;)

    That would be an incredibly poor result which you will realize with a bit of research. ;)

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 9,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bolivarshagnasty said:
    Isn't the '33 the Farouk specimen? The article didn't mention him.

    It would have to be unless the consignor has been living under a bridge for the last couple decades. The Treasury Department has still been playing hard ball (think Langboards).

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 9,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This will likely come down to TDN v. Hansen unless TDN decides against it for his box of 20. With that said Laura seemed very interested in the Langboard coins provided the government legitimated them.

  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2021 11:49AM

    Is there a coincidence the sell of the 1933 is on the heels of the conclusion of the Simpson sale. He will have a wad of cash this summer.

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 9,913 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2021 11:51AM

    I think the $10-$15 million auction estimate is a little optimistic. The Langboard coins demonstrated very clearly that not all were melted and that others could feasibly remain.

  • TheRavenTheRaven Posts: 4,143 ✭✭✭✭

    Others could remain, but others are likely never to be available for your collection, legally at least.

    Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hmmmm. Interesting. If I was a whale big enough to play... I probably wouldn’t. The whole thing with the Langbords puts a stain on the issue in my mind.

    I’d rather stick to stuff the government doesn’t care about. When they’re in the business of picking winners & losers it rubs me the wrong way.

    At the same time, I do wish the consignor and future owner the best. It is an important coin, and I can respect that.

  • RB1026RB1026 Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭✭

    Certainly exciting news that will electrify the collecting world. Have to agree with @BryceM though, the Langbord situation taints the whole story of the 1933 double eagles for me.

    Having read the linked article, the owner seems to be an interesting gentleman and I wish him and his family well. I hope the whole event brings more attention to our hobby and perhaps encourages numismatics with a new audience.

  • TheRavenTheRaven Posts: 4,143 ✭✭✭✭

    The 1933 have been tainted if you want to call it that long before the recent stuff. The tainting would go back into the 1940's as has been detailed in various books. It is all part of the story of the 1933 DE coins.

    Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
  • olympicsosolympicsos Posts: 653 ✭✭✭✭

    @tradedollarnut said:
    In auction this summer

    Do you have plans to buy it?

  • gonzergonzer Posts: 2,970 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I never knew a block of Jenny's existed.

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,071 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @olympicsos said:

    @tradedollarnut said:
    In auction this summer

    Do you have plans to buy it?

    None whatsoever

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 9,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @olympicsos said:

    @tradedollarnut said:
    In auction this summer

    Do you have plans to buy it?

    It would be unwise for him to answer that question.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,250 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TurtleCat said:
    What is really interesting to me is that this finally debunks the myth that the mint was the anonymous buyer of the ‘33 in order to keep it out of private hands.

    Yep. I was wrong in guessing that. Oh well!

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,056 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @olympicsos said:

    @tradedollarnut said:
    In auction this summer

    Do you have plans to buy it?

    It would be unwise for him to answer that question.

    Not if he has no interest in it. And he has since confirmed that.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • PhillyJoePhillyJoe Posts: 2,652 ✭✭✭

    The federal government allowed this one coin to be monetized (if that is the correct word) and sold at auction with the owner, Fenton, and the government splitting the proceeds. The buyer was assured no other 1933's would ever be monetized.

    The Philadelphia Mint: making coins since 1792. We make money by making money. Now in our 225th year thanks to no competition. image
  • CalifornianKingCalifornianKing Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭✭

    Cool!!

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 9,913 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2021 12:56PM

    @MFeld said:
    Not if he has no interest in it. And he has since confirmed that.

    I didn’t see that.

    Edited: My post was a cross post. We both posted at 3:37 PM EST.

  • OliverDePlaiseOliverDePlaise Posts: 102 ✭✭✭

    @PhillyJoe said:
    The federal government allowed this one coin to be monetized (if that is the correct word) and sold at auction with the owner, Fenton, and the government splitting the proceeds. The buyer was assured no other 1933's would ever be monetized.

    That would be distressing. It hardly seems (although there is history) that the ....government.... should be involved in the "hobby." :|

  • goldengolden Posts: 8,797 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just wow!

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,459 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So what are the chances that the buyer of the Edward VIII £5 later this month also goes for the Saint, or perhaps more accurately that a buyer interested in the Saint is also thinking the Edward VIII £5 would be a nice bauble to keep it company?

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 31,832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    back to rice and pasta

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 31,832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    perfect timing for a NFT GoFundMe !

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • wrightywrighty Posts: 837 ✭✭✭✭

    @tradedollarnut said:
    Let me expound - I have no interest in an artificial rarity. Just because the government deems only one legal to own doesn’t change the fact there are at least 13 [and most likely more] in existence. So to me it’s worth about what an 1894-S dime is worth.

    Very interesting take I personally never thought of it this way

  • lsicalsica Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭

    @OliverDePlaise said:

    That would be distressing. It hardly seems (although there is history) that the ....government.... should be involved in the "hobby." :|

    https://catalog.usmint.gov/

    Just sayin'

    Philately will get you nowhere....
  • lsicalsica Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭

    Nah I'm saving my pennies to fight with DLH over the 22 up at SB this month 😁

    Philately will get you nowhere....
  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 9,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tradedollarnut said:
    Let me expound - I have no interest in an artificial rarity.

    Does that include sticker rarity?

  • ReadyFireAimReadyFireAim Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's a timeline that may be of interest:

    (Information compiled by GoldFinger1969 from ATS)

    March 2nd, 1933: 1st 1933 Saint-Gaudens DEs are struck. The official Mint records and most previous sources do NOT cite March 2nd as the date of first striking, but March 15th. Roger Burdette uncovered this discrepancy from a letter dated 1945.
    March 4th: FDR sworn in as president
    March 5th: Last official gold shipment to Federal Reserve banks leaves the Mint
    March 6th: Treasury Secretary Woodin (a coin collector) orders Mint Director Robert J. Grant to not "pay out" any more gold. Grant complies, with an addendum: ".....this does not prohibit the deposit of gold and the usual payment thereof."
    March 7th: A wire is sent from an Asst Attorney General stating that Mint personnel could continue exchanging gold coins for gold coins.
    March 15th: A letter is sent by Acting Director Mary M. O'Reilly (Mint Director Robert J. Grant was on leave) informing Lewis Froman of Buffalo, NY that he could deposit gold bullion directly at the Mint in exchange for gold coin because it "....neither increases nor depletes the stock of gold in the Treasury."
    April 5th: FDR's Executive Order 6102 goes into effect.
    April 12th: Last "legal" day to participate in coin-for-coin exchanges.
    May(?)-June(?) - An entire bag (250) of 1928 Saint-Gaudens DEs is stolen from the Philly Mint vault. The bag appears to have been stolen at the same time that 1933 Saints were placed in the vault.

  • CCDollarCCDollar Posts: 706 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2021 2:23PM

    @gonzer said:
    I never knew a block of Jenny's existed.

    That is one sweet block...Yikes. Just sayin' for a friend.

    Nickel Triumph...My Led Zepps





  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Do they take IOUs? If not my opinion isn’t necessarily germane to the conversation

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,712 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It would not surprise me if the 1933 Double Eagle and the Jenny block don't perform that well in the auction. The real prize is the one cent magenta stamp.

    The remaining 1933 Double Eagles hang over the one legal to own coin like dark cloud.

    The Jenny block is a block, and an oddly sized one at that, and that area of collecting has declined since the introduction of self stick stamps. There are also plenty of Jenny singles available for trophy hunters.

    The one cent magenta is a real stamp and is the only one known. It is the real trophy of the stamp collecting world. There may be a few multi-billionaire international exhibitors out there who would really like to add that to their exhibits. Stamp collecting may have declined but that stamp is still the king!

    All glory is fleeting.
  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 9,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:
    It would not surprise me if the 1933 Double Eagle and the Jenny block don't perform that well in the auction. The real prize is the one cent magenta stamp.

    The remaining 1933 Double Eagles hang over the one legal to own coin like dark cloud.

    The Jenny block is a block, and an oddly sized one at that, and that area of collecting has declined since the introduction of self stick stamps. There are also plenty of Jenny singles available for trophy hunters.

    The one cent magenta is a real stamp and is the only one known. It is the real trophy of the stamp collecting world. There may be a few multi-billionaire international exhibitors out there who would really like to add that to their exhibits. Stamp collecting may have declined but that stamp is still the king!

    I agree. There was a thread not that long ago where many knowledgeable members, Laura included, valued it at around $5 million IIRC.

  • gschwernkgschwernk Posts: 338 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tradedollarnut said:

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @tradedollarnut said:
    Let me expound - I have no interest in an artificial rarity.

    Does that include sticker rarity?

    I have no interest in collecting coins where the grade on their holder is a huge factor in their value anymore, either. So label rarity, sticker rarity...and the sort.

    You are making a lot of sense. I'm thinking I should follow your lead and work more on my box of 20.

  • TiborTibor Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A possible buyer: Tyrant. The 1822 and the 1933.

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