if it hammers at $10 or is 10 with the juice would it be the result of an efficient market or would it still be $3m value with $7m monetization ?
I dont understand the comment 3 million coin value 7 million monetization value and then "shrug".
The auction price for any coin but especially a famous rarity such as this is the product of many factors (the number of actual bidders, the economy, the auction house, other coins on the market, intangibles, etc). The beauty of auction is that bidders will establish a price by putting real money behind it---not just giving an opinion. At the end of the day the auction price is the best estimate of the value on that given day. Attempting to disect how the value of the coin is split up may be amusing and fun to speculate but is also irrelevant. The price is the price.
I think he was saying that it should be about a $3 million dollar coin, but that legalities/circumstances have added several million dollars to the price tag.
While dissecting how the value of the coin is split up might be irrelevant, as you said, it's fun. And to many of us, it's very relevant, as well.
It is fun to speculate. I think the biggest trap regarding his logic is that its only a $3 million dollar coin but the legal and other "stuff" add 7 million dollars.
Why, what other coins with populations of approximately a dozen, tend to bring $3,000,000?
What coin's legal situation/other stuff add $7,000,000 in value to the coin's price?
if it hammers at $10 or is 10 with the juice would it be the result of an efficient market or would it still be $3m value with $7m monetization ?
I dont understand the comment 3 million coin value 7 million monetization value and then "shrug".
The auction price for any coin but especially a famous rarity such as this is the product of many factors (the number of actual bidders, the economy, the auction house, other coins on the market, intangibles, etc). The beauty of auction is that bidders will establish a price by putting real money behind it---not just giving an opinion. At the end of the day the auction price is the best estimate of the value on that given day. Attempting to disect how the value of the coin is split up may be amusing and fun to speculate but is also irrelevant. The price is the price.
I think he was saying that it should be about a $3 million dollar coin, but that legalities/circumstances have added several million dollars to the price tag.
While dissecting how the value of the coin is split up might be irrelevant, as you said, it's fun. And to many of us, it's very relevant, as well.
It is fun to speculate. I think the biggest trap regarding his logic is that its only a $3 million dollar coin but the legal and other "stuff" add 7 million dollars.
Why, how many other coins with populations of approximately a dozen, tend to bring considerably more than $3,000,000?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
if it hammers at $10 or is 10 with the juice would it be the result of an efficient market or would it still be $3m value with $7m monetization ?
I dont understand the comment 3 million coin value 7 million monetization value and then "shrug".
The auction price for any coin but especially a famous rarity such as this is the product of many factors (the number of actual bidders, the economy, the auction house, other coins on the market, intangibles, etc). The beauty of auction is that bidders will establish a price by putting real money behind it---not just giving an opinion. At the end of the day the auction price is the best estimate of the value on that given day. Attempting to disect how the value of the coin is split up may be amusing and fun to speculate but is also irrelevant. The price is the price.
I think he was saying that it should be about a $3 million dollar coin, but that legalities/circumstances have added several million dollars to the price tag.
While dissecting how the value of the coin is split up might be irrelevant, as you said, it's fun. And to many of us, it's very relevant, as well.
It is fun to speculate. I think the biggest trap regarding his logic is that its only a $3 million dollar coin but the legal and other "stuff" add 7 million dollars.
Why, how many other coins with populations of approximately a dozen, tend to bring considerably more than $3,000,000?
The question is flawed since there are very few coins period that bring more than $3,000,000 period. Again, my question is how do you just add 7 million for other stuff? What basis does anyone have for that?
if it hammers at $10 or is 10 with the juice would it be the result of an efficient market or would it still be $3m value with $7m monetization ?
I dont understand the comment 3 million coin value 7 million monetization value and then "shrug".
The auction price for any coin but especially a famous rarity such as this is the product of many factors (the number of actual bidders, the economy, the auction house, other coins on the market, intangibles, etc). The beauty of auction is that bidders will establish a price by putting real money behind it---not just giving an opinion. At the end of the day the auction price is the best estimate of the value on that given day. Attempting to disect how the value of the coin is split up may be amusing and fun to speculate but is also irrelevant. The price is the price.
I think he was saying that it should be about a $3 million dollar coin, but that legalities/circumstances have added several million dollars to the price tag.
While dissecting how the value of the coin is split up might be irrelevant, as you said, it's fun. And to many of us, it's very relevant, as well.
It is fun to speculate. I think the biggest trap regarding his logic is that its only a $3 million dollar coin but the legal and other "stuff" add 7 million dollars.
Why, how many other coins with populations of approximately a dozen, tend to bring considerably more than $3,000,000?
The question is flawed since there are very few coins period that bring more than $3,000,000 period. Again, my question is how do you just add 7 million for other stuff? What basis does anyone have for that?
if it hammers at $10 or is 10 with the juice would it be the result of an efficient market or would it still be $3m value with $7m monetization ?
I dont understand the comment 3 million coin value 7 million monetization value and then "shrug".
The auction price for any coin but especially a famous rarity such as this is the product of many factors (the number of actual bidders, the economy, the auction house, other coins on the market, intangibles, etc). The beauty of auction is that bidders will establish a price by putting real money behind it---not just giving an opinion. At the end of the day the auction price is the best estimate of the value on that given day. Attempting to disect how the value of the coin is split up may be amusing and fun to speculate but is also irrelevant. The price is the price.
I think he was saying that it should be about a $3 million dollar coin, but that legalities/circumstances have added several million dollars to the price tag.
While dissecting how the value of the coin is split up might be irrelevant, as you said, it's fun. And to many of us, it's very relevant, as well.
It is fun to speculate. I think the biggest trap regarding his logic is that its only a $3 million dollar coin but the legal and other "stuff" add 7 million dollars.
Why, how many other coins with populations of approximately a dozen, tend to bring considerably more than $3,000,000?
The question is flawed since there are very few coins period that bring more than $3,000,000 period. Again, my question is how do you just add 7 million for other stuff? What basis does anyone have for that?
if it hammers at $10 or is 10 with the juice would it be the result of an efficient market or would it still be $3m value with $7m monetization ?
I dont understand the comment 3 million coin value 7 million monetization value and then "shrug".
The auction price for any coin but especially a famous rarity such as this is the product of many factors (the number of actual bidders, the economy, the auction house, other coins on the market, intangibles, etc). The beauty of auction is that bidders will establish a price by putting real money behind it---not just giving an opinion. At the end of the day the auction price is the best estimate of the value on that given day. Attempting to disect how the value of the coin is split up may be amusing and fun to speculate but is also irrelevant. The price is the price.
I think he was saying that it should be about a $3 million dollar coin, but that legalities/circumstances have added several million dollars to the price tag.
While dissecting how the value of the coin is split up might be irrelevant, as you said, it's fun. And to many of us, it's very relevant, as well.
It is fun to speculate. I think the biggest trap regarding his logic is that its only a $3 million dollar coin but the legal and other "stuff" add 7 million dollars.
Why, how many other coins with populations of approximately a dozen, tend to bring considerably more than $3,000,000?
The question is flawed since there are very few coins period that bring more than $3,000,000 period. Again, my question is how do you just add 7 million for other stuff? What basis does anyone have for that?
I think that Bruce has an exceptionally good feel for values of different rarities/ultra rarities. If there were a dozen legalized 1933 Saints, in order to try to come up with a "value", off the top of my head, I'd start out by looking at 1804 Dollar, 1894-S Dime and 1907 Ultra High Relief prices, then go from there.
Edited to add: The fact that there aren't too many $3,000,000 coins should tell you something. And among other things, it should tell you that the legalities have added several million dollars to the value of the only legal-to-own 1933 Saint. For the record, I'm not commenting on whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
if it hammers at $10 or is 10 with the juice would it be the result of an efficient market or would it still be $3m value with $7m monetization ?
I dont understand the comment 3 million coin value 7 million monetization value and then "shrug".
The auction price for any coin but especially a famous rarity such as this is the product of many factors (the number of actual bidders, the economy, the auction house, other coins on the market, intangibles, etc). The beauty of auction is that bidders will establish a price by putting real money behind it---not just giving an opinion. At the end of the day the auction price is the best estimate of the value on that given day. Attempting to disect how the value of the coin is split up may be amusing and fun to speculate but is also irrelevant. The price is the price.
I think he was saying that it should be about a $3 million dollar coin, but that legalities/circumstances have added several million dollars to the price tag.
While dissecting how the value of the coin is split up might be irrelevant, as you said, it's fun. And to many of us, it's very relevant, as well.
It is fun to speculate. I think the biggest trap regarding his logic is that its only a $3 million dollar coin but the legal and other "stuff" add 7 million dollars.
Why, how many other coins with populations of approximately a dozen, tend to bring considerably more than $3,000,000?
The question is flawed since there are very few coins period that bring more than $3,000,000 period. Again, my question is how do you just add 7 million for other stuff? What basis does anyone have for that?
if it hammers at $10 or is 10 with the juice would it be the result of an efficient market or would it still be $3m value with $7m monetization ?
I dont understand the comment 3 million coin value 7 million monetization value and then "shrug".
The auction price for any coin but especially a famous rarity such as this is the product of many factors (the number of actual bidders, the economy, the auction house, other coins on the market, intangibles, etc). The beauty of auction is that bidders will establish a price by putting real money behind it---not just giving an opinion. At the end of the day the auction price is the best estimate of the value on that given day. Attempting to disect how the value of the coin is split up may be amusing and fun to speculate but is also irrelevant. The price is the price.
I think he was saying that it should be about a $3 million dollar coin, but that legalities/circumstances have added several million dollars to the price tag.
While dissecting how the value of the coin is split up might be irrelevant, as you said, it's fun. And to many of us, it's very relevant, as well.
It is fun to speculate. I think the biggest trap regarding his logic is that its only a $3 million dollar coin but the legal and other "stuff" add 7 million dollars.
Why, how many other coins with populations of approximately a dozen, tend to bring considerably more than $3,000,000?
The question is flawed since there are very few coins period that bring more than $3,000,000 period. Again, my question is how do you just add 7 million for other stuff? What basis does anyone have for that?
It is basically a glorified 1927-D.
One can speculate the same about the 1927-D regarding value---one never knows if more coins of that date may turn it up.
if it hammers at $10 or is 10 with the juice would it be the result of an efficient market or would it still be $3m value with $7m monetization ?
I dont understand the comment 3 million coin value 7 million monetization value and then "shrug".
The auction price for any coin but especially a famous rarity such as this is the product of many factors (the number of actual bidders, the economy, the auction house, other coins on the market, intangibles, etc). The beauty of auction is that bidders will establish a price by putting real money behind it---not just giving an opinion. At the end of the day the auction price is the best estimate of the value on that given day. Attempting to disect how the value of the coin is split up may be amusing and fun to speculate but is also irrelevant. The price is the price.
I think he was saying that it should be about a $3 million dollar coin, but that legalities/circumstances have added several million dollars to the price tag.
While dissecting how the value of the coin is split up might be irrelevant, as you said, it's fun. And to many of us, it's very relevant, as well.
It is fun to speculate. I think the biggest trap regarding his logic is that its only a $3 million dollar coin but the legal and other "stuff" add 7 million dollars.
Why, how many other coins with populations of approximately a dozen, tend to bring considerably more than $3,000,000?
The question is flawed since there are very few coins period that bring more than $3,000,000 period. Again, my question is how do you just add 7 million for other stuff? What basis does anyone have for that?
if it hammers at $10 or is 10 with the juice would it be the result of an efficient market or would it still be $3m value with $7m monetization ?
I dont understand the comment 3 million coin value 7 million monetization value and then "shrug".
The auction price for any coin but especially a famous rarity such as this is the product of many factors (the number of actual bidders, the economy, the auction house, other coins on the market, intangibles, etc). The beauty of auction is that bidders will establish a price by putting real money behind it---not just giving an opinion. At the end of the day the auction price is the best estimate of the value on that given day. Attempting to disect how the value of the coin is split up may be amusing and fun to speculate but is also irrelevant. The price is the price.
I think he was saying that it should be about a $3 million dollar coin, but that legalities/circumstances have added several million dollars to the price tag.
While dissecting how the value of the coin is split up might be irrelevant, as you said, it's fun. And to many of us, it's very relevant, as well.
It is fun to speculate. I think the biggest trap regarding his logic is that its only a $3 million dollar coin but the legal and other "stuff" add 7 million dollars.
Why, how many other coins with populations of approximately a dozen, tend to bring considerably more than $3,000,000?
The question is flawed since there are very few coins period that bring more than $3,000,000 period. Again, my question is how do you just add 7 million for other stuff? What basis does anyone have for that?
It is basically a glorified 1927-D.
This reminds me a bit of pga golfer jim furyk. He says that amateurs often tell him we have the same swing. He responds no we dont---if we did your ball would have the same flight pattern as mine. Likewise, if the 1933 was just a glorified 1927-d, one would not be worth multiples of the other. Further, the 1933 would not be ranked as the 4th greatest coin and the 1927-d would not be ranked as the 64th greatest coin.
@Martin said:
Is it possible that we are being Blayed?
Martin
The thought crossed my mind as well
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Martin said:
Is it possible that we are being Blayed?
Martin
The thought crossed my mind as well
m
I honestly hope the US Government makes a wise investment of about $10M, tears up the monetization agreement and then sells all of its 1933 $20s. It would be great for collectors
@MsMorrisine said:
if it brings $10 then I'd say his feel for the value would need to be adjusted
I wouldn’t. I don’t think he’s saying it won’t bring $10,000,000. But rather, that much of the “value” is due to the fact that it’s the only one which is legal to own. And frankly, if that is what he thinks, I don’t understand how anyone can disagree.
Do you think if there were a dozen that could be traded legally, they’d bring $3,000,000 or more each? And if so, why?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Everybody knows what this coin is.
Ask a non-collector what a Brasher Doubloon is..."A what?"
I showed a friend one of my 1920's saints years ago.
He said "Oh, nice replica" because he thought there was only one SG$20 in the world that wasn't melted(1933)
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
@MFeld said:
But rather, that much of the “value” is due to the fact that it’s the only one which is legal to own. And frankly, if that is what he thinks, I don’t understand how anyone can disagree.
I correct my misinterpretation.
should it bring $10, who's to say that the competing buyers think there is $7 in monetization?
@MFeld said:
But rather, that much of the “value” is due to the fact that it’s the only one which is legal to own. And frankly, if that is what he thinks, I don’t understand how anyone can disagree.
I correct my misinterpretation.
should it bring $10, who's to say that the competing buyers think there is $7 in monetization?
Ask around and see how many knowledgeable numismatists think otherwise by plus or minus $1,000,000.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Martin said:
Is it possible that we are being Blayed?
Martin
The thought crossed my mind as well
m
I honestly hope the US Government makes a wise investment of about $10M, tears up the monetization agreement and then sells all of its 1933 $20s. It would be great for collectors
.
.
This would be a tremendous outcome, imo. Let's dream a little bit here with @tradedollarnut 's excellent idea. . .
Collectors would benefit from the energy of uber rarities hitting the hobby. New and heavy hitters might be encouraged to join in the fun. The sales could be strung out, one or two pieces at a time. The excitement would further fuel the current boom in coins, creating additional new/strong interest in numismatics. This could then trigger a whole new wave of fresh faces entering the hobby at all levels. The U.S. Mint could hype the heck out of it and then potentially grow its customer base and increase sales to new record highs. The U.S. taxpayer and ordinary citizen would be the beneficiary of the economic impact (no matter how small it might be, relatively speaking).
Sadly, this is why it's never going to happen. It makes WAY too much sense for the government to do it.
@Martin said:
Is it possible that we are being Blayed?
Martin
The thought crossed my mind as well
m
I honestly hope the US Government makes a wise investment of about $10M, tears up the monetization agreement and then sells all of its 1933 $20s. It would be great for collectors
I haven't seen anything to indicate this is even a remote possibility. They didn't buy this coin last time when it would have made much more sense. They fought tooth and nail in the Langbord case despite being offered a cut of the sale proceeds. IF they bought this one it would be gone from public ownership forever.
I'm still taking the over 10m and guess there is a greater than 50% chance that the owner isn't a collector per se.
if it hammers at $10 or is 10 with the juice would it be the result of an efficient market or would it still be $3m value with $7m monetization ?
I dont understand the comment 3 million coin value 7 million monetization value and then "shrug".
The auction price for any coin but especially a famous rarity such as this is the product of many factors (the number of actual bidders, the economy, the auction house, other coins on the market, intangibles, etc). The beauty of auction is that bidders will establish a price by putting real money behind it---not just giving an opinion. At the end of the day the auction price is the best estimate of the value on that given day. Attempting to disect how the value of the coin is split up may be amusing and fun to speculate but is also irrelevant. The price is the price.
I think he was saying that it should be about a $3 million dollar coin, but that legalities/circumstances have added several million dollars to the price tag.
While dissecting how the value of the coin is split up might be irrelevant, as you said, it's fun. And to many of us, it's very relevant, as well.
It is fun to speculate. I think the biggest trap regarding his logic is that its only a $3 million dollar coin but the legal and other "stuff" add 7 million dollars.
Why, how many other coins with populations of approximately a dozen, tend to bring considerably more than $3,000,000?
The question is flawed since there are very few coins period that bring more than $3,000,000 period. Again, my question is how do you just add 7 million for other stuff? What basis does anyone have for that?
if it hammers at $10 or is 10 with the juice would it be the result of an efficient market or would it still be $3m value with $7m monetization ?
I dont understand the comment 3 million coin value 7 million monetization value and then "shrug".
The auction price for any coin but especially a famous rarity such as this is the product of many factors (the number of actual bidders, the economy, the auction house, other coins on the market, intangibles, etc). The beauty of auction is that bidders will establish a price by putting real money behind it---not just giving an opinion. At the end of the day the auction price is the best estimate of the value on that given day. Attempting to disect how the value of the coin is split up may be amusing and fun to speculate but is also irrelevant. The price is the price.
I think he was saying that it should be about a $3 million dollar coin, but that legalities/circumstances have added several million dollars to the price tag.
While dissecting how the value of the coin is split up might be irrelevant, as you said, it's fun. And to many of us, it's very relevant, as well.
It is fun to speculate. I think the biggest trap regarding his logic is that its only a $3 million dollar coin but the legal and other "stuff" add 7 million dollars.
Why, how many other coins with populations of approximately a dozen, tend to bring considerably more than $3,000,000?
The question is flawed since there are very few coins period that bring more than $3,000,000 period. Again, my question is how do you just add 7 million for other stuff? What basis does anyone have for that?
It is basically a glorified 1927-D.
This reminds me a bit of pga golfer jim furyk. He says that amateurs often tell him we have the same swing. He responds no we dont---if we did your ball would have the same flight pattern as mine. Likewise, if the 1933 was just a glorified 1927-d, one would not be worth multiples of the other. Further, the 1933 would not be ranked as the 4th greatest coin and the 1927-d would not be ranked as the 64th greatest coin.
And nobody swings like Furyk absolutely no one. Current world rank, 232nd.
if it hammers at $10 or is 10 with the juice would it be the result of an efficient market or would it still be $3m value with $7m monetization ?
I dont understand the comment 3 million coin value 7 million monetization value and then "shrug".
The auction price for any coin but especially a famous rarity such as this is the product of many factors (the number of actual bidders, the economy, the auction house, other coins on the market, intangibles, etc). The beauty of auction is that bidders will establish a price by putting real money behind it---not just giving an opinion. At the end of the day the auction price is the best estimate of the value on that given day. Attempting to disect how the value of the coin is split up may be amusing and fun to speculate but is also irrelevant. The price is the price.
I think he was saying that it should be about a $3 million dollar coin, but that legalities/circumstances have added several million dollars to the price tag.
While dissecting how the value of the coin is split up might be irrelevant, as you said, it's fun. And to many of us, it's very relevant, as well.
It is fun to speculate. I think the biggest trap regarding his logic is that its only a $3 million dollar coin but the legal and other "stuff" add 7 million dollars.
Why, how many other coins with populations of approximately a dozen, tend to bring considerably more than $3,000,000?
The question is flawed since there are very few coins period that bring more than $3,000,000 period. Again, my question is how do you just add 7 million for other stuff? What basis does anyone have for that?
if it hammers at $10 or is 10 with the juice would it be the result of an efficient market or would it still be $3m value with $7m monetization ?
I dont understand the comment 3 million coin value 7 million monetization value and then "shrug".
The auction price for any coin but especially a famous rarity such as this is the product of many factors (the number of actual bidders, the economy, the auction house, other coins on the market, intangibles, etc). The beauty of auction is that bidders will establish a price by putting real money behind it---not just giving an opinion. At the end of the day the auction price is the best estimate of the value on that given day. Attempting to disect how the value of the coin is split up may be amusing and fun to speculate but is also irrelevant. The price is the price.
I think he was saying that it should be about a $3 million dollar coin, but that legalities/circumstances have added several million dollars to the price tag.
While dissecting how the value of the coin is split up might be irrelevant, as you said, it's fun. And to many of us, it's very relevant, as well.
It is fun to speculate. I think the biggest trap regarding his logic is that its only a $3 million dollar coin but the legal and other "stuff" add 7 million dollars.
Why, how many other coins with populations of approximately a dozen, tend to bring considerably more than $3,000,000?
The question is flawed since there are very few coins period that bring more than $3,000,000 period. Again, my question is how do you just add 7 million for other stuff? What basis does anyone have for that?
It is basically a glorified 1927-D.
This reminds me a bit of pga golfer jim furyk. He says that amateurs often tell him we have the same swing. He responds no we dont---if we did your ball would have the same flight pattern as mine. Likewise, if the 1933 was just a glorified 1927-d, one would not be worth multiples of the other. Further, the 1933 would not be ranked as the 4th greatest coin and the 1927-d would not be ranked as the 64th greatest coin.
And nobody swings like Furyk absolutely no one. Current world rank, 232nd.
Not really a fan of Furyk but a little unfair to say his current rank is 232. He is 50 and about to be on the senior tour. That swing of his did win a US Open and fed ex championship and a whole lot of money. He has done alright for himself.
if it hammers at $10 or is 10 with the juice would it be the result of an efficient market or would it still be $3m value with $7m monetization ?
I dont understand the comment 3 million coin value 7 million monetization value and then "shrug".
The auction price for any coin but especially a famous rarity such as this is the product of many factors (the number of actual bidders, the economy, the auction house, other coins on the market, intangibles, etc). The beauty of auction is that bidders will establish a price by putting real money behind it---not just giving an opinion. At the end of the day the auction price is the best estimate of the value on that given day. Attempting to disect how the value of the coin is split up may be amusing and fun to speculate but is also irrelevant. The price is the price.
I think he was saying that it should be about a $3 million dollar coin, but that legalities/circumstances have added several million dollars to the price tag.
While dissecting how the value of the coin is split up might be irrelevant, as you said, it's fun. And to many of us, it's very relevant, as well.
It is fun to speculate. I think the biggest trap regarding his logic is that its only a $3 million dollar coin but the legal and other "stuff" add 7 million dollars.
Why, how many other coins with populations of approximately a dozen, tend to bring considerably more than $3,000,000?
The question is flawed since there are very few coins period that bring more than $3,000,000 period. Again, my question is how do you just add 7 million for other stuff? What basis does anyone have for that?
if it hammers at $10 or is 10 with the juice would it be the result of an efficient market or would it still be $3m value with $7m monetization ?
I dont understand the comment 3 million coin value 7 million monetization value and then "shrug".
The auction price for any coin but especially a famous rarity such as this is the product of many factors (the number of actual bidders, the economy, the auction house, other coins on the market, intangibles, etc). The beauty of auction is that bidders will establish a price by putting real money behind it---not just giving an opinion. At the end of the day the auction price is the best estimate of the value on that given day. Attempting to disect how the value of the coin is split up may be amusing and fun to speculate but is also irrelevant. The price is the price.
I think he was saying that it should be about a $3 million dollar coin, but that legalities/circumstances have added several million dollars to the price tag.
While dissecting how the value of the coin is split up might be irrelevant, as you said, it's fun. And to many of us, it's very relevant, as well.
It is fun to speculate. I think the biggest trap regarding his logic is that its only a $3 million dollar coin but the legal and other "stuff" add 7 million dollars.
Why, how many other coins with populations of approximately a dozen, tend to bring considerably more than $3,000,000?
The question is flawed since there are very few coins period that bring more than $3,000,000 period. Again, my question is how do you just add 7 million for other stuff? What basis does anyone have for that?
It is basically a glorified 1927-D.
This reminds me a bit of pga golfer jim furyk. He says that amateurs often tell him we have the same swing. He responds no we dont---if we did your ball would have the same flight pattern as mine. Likewise, if the 1933 was just a glorified 1927-d, one would not be worth multiples of the other. Further, the 1933 would not be ranked as the 4th greatest coin and the 1927-d would not be ranked as the 64th greatest coin.
And nobody swings like Furyk absolutely no one. Current world rank, 232nd.
if it hammers at $10 or is 10 with the juice would it be the result of an efficient market or would it still be $3m value with $7m monetization ?
I dont understand the comment 3 million coin value 7 million monetization value and then "shrug".
The auction price for any coin but especially a famous rarity such as this is the product of many factors (the number of actual bidders, the economy, the auction house, other coins on the market, intangibles, etc). The beauty of auction is that bidders will establish a price by putting real money behind it---not just giving an opinion. At the end of the day the auction price is the best estimate of the value on that given day. Attempting to disect how the value of the coin is split up may be amusing and fun to speculate but is also irrelevant. The price is the price.
I think he was saying that it should be about a $3 million dollar coin, but that legalities/circumstances have added several million dollars to the price tag.
While dissecting how the value of the coin is split up might be irrelevant, as you said, it's fun. And to many of us, it's very relevant, as well.
It is fun to speculate. I think the biggest trap regarding his logic is that its only a $3 million dollar coin but the legal and other "stuff" add 7 million dollars.
Why, how many other coins with populations of approximately a dozen, tend to bring considerably more than $3,000,000?
The question is flawed since there are very few coins period that bring more than $3,000,000 period. Again, my question is how do you just add 7 million for other stuff? What basis does anyone have for that?
if it hammers at $10 or is 10 with the juice would it be the result of an efficient market or would it still be $3m value with $7m monetization ?
I dont understand the comment 3 million coin value 7 million monetization value and then "shrug".
The auction price for any coin but especially a famous rarity such as this is the product of many factors (the number of actual bidders, the economy, the auction house, other coins on the market, intangibles, etc). The beauty of auction is that bidders will establish a price by putting real money behind it---not just giving an opinion. At the end of the day the auction price is the best estimate of the value on that given day. Attempting to disect how the value of the coin is split up may be amusing and fun to speculate but is also irrelevant. The price is the price.
I think he was saying that it should be about a $3 million dollar coin, but that legalities/circumstances have added several million dollars to the price tag.
While dissecting how the value of the coin is split up might be irrelevant, as you said, it's fun. And to many of us, it's very relevant, as well.
It is fun to speculate. I think the biggest trap regarding his logic is that its only a $3 million dollar coin but the legal and other "stuff" add 7 million dollars.
Why, how many other coins with populations of approximately a dozen, tend to bring considerably more than $3,000,000?
The question is flawed since there are very few coins period that bring more than $3,000,000 period. Again, my question is how do you just add 7 million for other stuff? What basis does anyone have for that?
It is basically a glorified 1927-D.
This reminds me a bit of pga golfer jim furyk. He says that amateurs often tell him we have the same swing. He responds no we dont---if we did your ball would have the same flight pattern as mine. Likewise, if the 1933 was just a glorified 1927-d, one would not be worth multiples of the other. Further, the 1933 would not be ranked as the 4th greatest coin and the 1927-d would not be ranked as the 64th greatest coin.
And nobody swings like Furyk absolutely no one. Current world rank, 232nd.
Not really a fan of Furyk but a little unfair to say his current rank is 232. He is 50 and about to be on the senior tour. That swing of his did win a US Open and fed ex championship and a whole lot of money. He has done alright for himself.
if it hammers at $10 or is 10 with the juice would it be the result of an efficient market or would it still be $3m value with $7m monetization ?
I dont understand the comment 3 million coin value 7 million monetization value and then "shrug".
The auction price for any coin but especially a famous rarity such as this is the product of many factors (the number of actual bidders, the economy, the auction house, other coins on the market, intangibles, etc). The beauty of auction is that bidders will establish a price by putting real money behind it---not just giving an opinion. At the end of the day the auction price is the best estimate of the value on that given day. Attempting to disect how the value of the coin is split up may be amusing and fun to speculate but is also irrelevant. The price is the price.
I think he was saying that it should be about a $3 million dollar coin, but that legalities/circumstances have added several million dollars to the price tag.
While dissecting how the value of the coin is split up might be irrelevant, as you said, it's fun. And to many of us, it's very relevant, as well.
It is fun to speculate. I think the biggest trap regarding his logic is that its only a $3 million dollar coin but the legal and other "stuff" add 7 million dollars.
Why, how many other coins with populations of approximately a dozen, tend to bring considerably more than $3,000,000?
The question is flawed since there are very few coins period that bring more than $3,000,000 period. Again, my question is how do you just add 7 million for other stuff? What basis does anyone have for that?
if it hammers at $10 or is 10 with the juice would it be the result of an efficient market or would it still be $3m value with $7m monetization ?
I dont understand the comment 3 million coin value 7 million monetization value and then "shrug".
The auction price for any coin but especially a famous rarity such as this is the product of many factors (the number of actual bidders, the economy, the auction house, other coins on the market, intangibles, etc). The beauty of auction is that bidders will establish a price by putting real money behind it---not just giving an opinion. At the end of the day the auction price is the best estimate of the value on that given day. Attempting to disect how the value of the coin is split up may be amusing and fun to speculate but is also irrelevant. The price is the price.
I think he was saying that it should be about a $3 million dollar coin, but that legalities/circumstances have added several million dollars to the price tag.
While dissecting how the value of the coin is split up might be irrelevant, as you said, it's fun. And to many of us, it's very relevant, as well.
It is fun to speculate. I think the biggest trap regarding his logic is that its only a $3 million dollar coin but the legal and other "stuff" add 7 million dollars.
Why, how many other coins with populations of approximately a dozen, tend to bring considerably more than $3,000,000?
The question is flawed since there are very few coins period that bring more than $3,000,000 period. Again, my question is how do you just add 7 million for other stuff? What basis does anyone have for that?
It is basically a glorified 1927-D.
This reminds me a bit of pga golfer jim furyk. He says that amateurs often tell him we have the same swing. He responds no we dont---if we did your ball would have the same flight pattern as mine. Likewise, if the 1933 was just a glorified 1927-d, one would not be worth multiples of the other. Further, the 1933 would not be ranked as the 4th greatest coin and the 1927-d would not be ranked as the 64th greatest coin.
And nobody swings like Furyk absolutely no one. Current world rank, 232nd.
Not really a fan of Furyk but a little unfair to say his current rank is 232. He is 50 and about to be on the senior tour. That swing of his did win a US Open and fed ex championship and a whole lot of money. He has done alright for himself.
I agree but it is what it is. Also worth noting he was second in the world in 06. Second only to Woods and not a bad to place to be unless your Mickelson.
if it hammers at $10 or is 10 with the juice would it be the result of an efficient market or would it still be $3m value with $7m monetization ?
I dont understand the comment 3 million coin value 7 million monetization value and then "shrug".
The auction price for any coin but especially a famous rarity such as this is the product of many factors (the number of actual bidders, the economy, the auction house, other coins on the market, intangibles, etc). The beauty of auction is that bidders will establish a price by putting real money behind it---not just giving an opinion. At the end of the day the auction price is the best estimate of the value on that given day. Attempting to disect how the value of the coin is split up may be amusing and fun to speculate but is also irrelevant. The price is the price.
I think he was saying that it should be about a $3 million dollar coin, but that legalities/circumstances have added several million dollars to the price tag.
While dissecting how the value of the coin is split up might be irrelevant, as you said, it's fun. And to many of us, it's very relevant, as well.
It is fun to speculate. I think the biggest trap regarding his logic is that its only a $3 million dollar coin but the legal and other "stuff" add 7 million dollars.
Why, how many other coins with populations of approximately a dozen, tend to bring considerably more than $3,000,000?
The question is flawed since there are very few coins period that bring more than $3,000,000 period. Again, my question is how do you just add 7 million for other stuff? What basis does anyone have for that?
if it hammers at $10 or is 10 with the juice would it be the result of an efficient market or would it still be $3m value with $7m monetization ?
I dont understand the comment 3 million coin value 7 million monetization value and then "shrug".
The auction price for any coin but especially a famous rarity such as this is the product of many factors (the number of actual bidders, the economy, the auction house, other coins on the market, intangibles, etc). The beauty of auction is that bidders will establish a price by putting real money behind it---not just giving an opinion. At the end of the day the auction price is the best estimate of the value on that given day. Attempting to disect how the value of the coin is split up may be amusing and fun to speculate but is also irrelevant. The price is the price.
I think he was saying that it should be about a $3 million dollar coin, but that legalities/circumstances have added several million dollars to the price tag.
While dissecting how the value of the coin is split up might be irrelevant, as you said, it's fun. And to many of us, it's very relevant, as well.
It is fun to speculate. I think the biggest trap regarding his logic is that its only a $3 million dollar coin but the legal and other "stuff" add 7 million dollars.
Why, how many other coins with populations of approximately a dozen, tend to bring considerably more than $3,000,000?
The question is flawed since there are very few coins period that bring more than $3,000,000 period. Again, my question is how do you just add 7 million for other stuff? What basis does anyone have for that?
It is basically a glorified 1927-D.
This reminds me a bit of pga golfer jim furyk. He says that amateurs often tell him we have the same swing. He responds no we dont---if we did your ball would have the same flight pattern as mine. Likewise, if the 1933 was just a glorified 1927-d, one would not be worth multiples of the other. Further, the 1933 would not be ranked as the 4th greatest coin and the 1927-d would not be ranked as the 64th greatest coin.
And nobody swings like Furyk absolutely no one. Current world rank, 232nd.
Matt Wolfe
Another unique one. I’d be all right with Sergio or JT’s swing.
@Martin said:
Is it possible that we are being Blayed?
Martin
The thought crossed my mind as well
m
I honestly hope the US Government makes a wise investment of about $10M, tears up the monetization agreement and then sells all of its 1933 $20s. It would be great for collectors
I don't think the government will spend $10M to do this. It would be bad publicity.
The way it could possibly happen is if someone buys it and donates it to the government.
if it hammers at $10 or is 10 with the juice would it be the result of an efficient market or would it still be $3m value with $7m monetization ?
I dont understand the comment 3 million coin value 7 million monetization value and then "shrug".
The auction price for any coin but especially a famous rarity such as this is the product of many factors (the number of actual bidders, the economy, the auction house, other coins on the market, intangibles, etc). The beauty of auction is that bidders will establish a price by putting real money behind it---not just giving an opinion. At the end of the day the auction price is the best estimate of the value on that given day. Attempting to disect how the value of the coin is split up may be amusing and fun to speculate but is also irrelevant. The price is the price.
I think he was saying that it should be about a $3 million dollar coin, but that legalities/circumstances have added several million dollars to the price tag.
While dissecting how the value of the coin is split up might be irrelevant, as you said, it's fun. And to many of us, it's very relevant, as well.
It is fun to speculate. I think the biggest trap regarding his logic is that its only a $3 million dollar coin but the legal and other "stuff" add 7 million dollars.
Why, how many other coins with populations of approximately a dozen, tend to bring considerably more than $3,000,000?
The question is flawed since there are very few coins period that bring more than $3,000,000 period. Again, my question is how do you just add 7 million for other stuff? What basis does anyone have for that?
I think that Bruce has an exceptionally good feel for values of different rarities/ultra rarities. If there were a dozen legalized 1933 Saints, in order to try to come up with a "value", off the top of my head, I'd start out by looking at 1804 Dollar, 1894-S Dime and 1907 Ultra High Relief prices, then go from there.
Edited to add: The fact that there aren't too many $3,000,000 coins should tell you something. And among other things, it should tell you that the legalities have added several million dollars to the value of the only legal-to-own 1933 Saint. For the record, I'm not commenting on whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.
There is the added problem that the coin up for auction is no longer the best known. Obviously one can't speak for TDN, but his recent acquisitions have made it evident that having the "best known" can be an important factor for potential bidders with such a mind set.
@1northcoin said:
There is the added problem that the coin up for auction is not the best known. Obviously one can't speak for TDN, but his recent acquisitions have made it evident that having the "best known" can be an important factor for potential bidders with such a mind set.
My guess is that the top bidders will be bidding on the fact it's the only one available. The collectors hoping that government held coins become available may not be in the running.
@1northcoin said:
There is the added problem that the coin up for auction is not the best known. Obviously one can't speak for TDN, but his recent acquisitions have made it evident that having the "best known" can be an important factor for potential bidders with such a mind set.
My guess is that the top bidders will be bidding on the fact it's the only one available. The collectors hoping that government held coins become available may not be in the running.
If correct, and no reason to think otherwise, it adds to the prospect that someone outside of the coin collecting community will snag it. Another "X" factor with regard to this auction is the charity aspect. I have seen auctions where when the proceeds go to charity the intrinsic value of the item itself becomes secondary.
@1northcoin said:
There is the added problem that the coin up for auction is not the best known. Obviously one can't speak for TDN, but his recent acquisitions have made it evident that having the "best known" can be an important factor for potential bidders with such a mind set.
My guess is that the top bidders will be bidding on the fact it's the only one available. The collectors hoping that government held coins become available may not be in the running.
If correct, and no reason to think otherwise, it adds to the prospect that someone outside of the coin collecting community will snag it.
I'm not so sure, I'd venture a coin collector with many coins could want it as well. Certainly, if I had the budget for such a coin, it would be at the top of my list, above all other coins. Of course, others have remarked I like unique things. Unique to own is good with me. It would be a huge way to make a mark in all the discussions of provenance which is a driving factor for the desire.
Another "X" factor with regard to this auction is the charity aspect. I have seen auctions where when the proceeds go to charity the intrinsic value of the item itself becomes secondary.
Agreed, but I'm not sure how this will play out here since the primary beneficiaries seem to be the Weitzman Foundation and Weitzman School.
@Zoins said:
The J-1776 was estimated at $15M so I'm mostly interested if this will be above or below that figure.
Why does it matter to you whether the 1933 Saint sells for more than a particular estimate for another coin which might not even sell in our lifetime? Especially when other estimates for J-1776 could easily differ by various seven figure amounts.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Right now in this market, I think j-1776 sells for $25M.
The 1933 will almost certainly go to a non collector [2 exceptions i can think of if it goes at a reasonable level] as I believe most big collectors will shy away due to the other examples. A non collector will be more inclined to ignore those coins.
@Zoins said:
The J-1776 was estimated at $15M so I'm mostly interested if this will be above or below that figure.
Why does it matter to you whether the 1933 Saint sells for more than a particular estimate for another coin which might not even sell in our lifetime? Especially when other estimates for J-1776 could easily differ by various seven figure amounts?
Why not have something to ponder? We’re all just having fun with these discussions.
I’d actually love it to go for more than the $70m Beeple artwork which I previously mentioned but I’ve been told that’s unrealistic.
@Zoins said:
The J-1776 was estimated at $15M so I'm mostly interested if this will be above or below that figure.
Why does it matter to you whether the 1933 Saint sells for more than a particular estimate for another coin which might not even sell in our lifetime? Especially when other estimates for J-1776 could easily differ by various seven figure amounts.
Lol. Earlier you said "while dissecting...the value of the coin might be irrelevant...its fun." You answered your own question
I am still saying ≥$30 million, I think some of the lower estimates are undervaluing the history and the story of this coin. So many articles and books have been written about the 33's. I don't think the feds have any intention of making the others legal. If they were, they would have already done it. They clearly are committed to not doing so as history has shown. So this is it, you want to own what is probably the World's most famous coin, you get one shot. ≥$30 million............
@Zoins said:
The J-1776 was estimated at $15M so I'm mostly interested if this will be above or below that figure.
Why does it matter to you whether the 1933 Saint sells for more than a particular estimate for another coin which might not even sell in our lifetime? Especially when other estimates for J-1776 could easily differ by various seven figure amounts?
Why not have something to ponder? We’re all just having fun with these discussions.
I’d actually love it to go for more than the $70m Beeple artwork which I previously mentioned but I’ve been told that’s unrealistic.
There’s plenty to ponder. 😉 I’m just curious as to why you chose that particular estimate? I take it you saw that tradedollarnut subsequently posted a very different opinion regarding the current value of J-1776?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@spacehayduke said:
I am still saying ≥$30 million, I think some of the lower estimates are undervaluing the history and the story of this coin. So many articles and books have been written about the 33's. I don't think the feds have any intention of making the others legal. If they were, they would have already done it. They clearly are committed to not doing so as history has shown. So this is it, you want to own what is probably the World's most famous coin, you get one shot. ≥$30 million............
Agree. If someone wants fame, this is the coin to get. No other coin has as much going for it in this area.
@Zoins said:
The J-1776 was estimated at $15M so I'm mostly interested if this will be above or below that figure.
Why does it matter to you whether the 1933 Saint sells for more than a particular estimate for another coin which might not even sell in our lifetime? Especially when other estimates for J-1776 could easily differ by various seven figure amounts?
Why not have something to ponder? We’re all just having fun with these discussions.
I’d actually love it to go for more than the $70m Beeple artwork which I previously mentioned but I’ve been told that’s unrealistic.
There’s plenty to ponder. 😉 I’m just curious as to why you chose that particular estimate? I take it you saw that tradedollarnut subsequently posted a very different opinion regarding the current value of J-1776?
$15M for J-1776 has been speculated years before. I don't know that it would go for higher now given that we haven't surpassed the high water mark for coins since 2013, and this particular piece is a pattern vs. part of a regularly issued coin series.
Of course, someone can offer whatever they want via private treaty. As mentioned before, I'm thinking of prices in a standard open auction.
I'd love to hear from Bruce on why he's estimating $25M now, and if he's thinking private treaty or auction.
Increasing the good possibility that a non coin collector ends up with the Saint is the fact that the proceeds are going to his charitable foundations. Stuart has lots of friends and neighbors around the world that could splurge on any of his items at auction. I wouldn't be surprised if there are in multiple bidders with their hands in the air like they don't care. They wouldn't be concerned if the hammer fell on them knowing a charity would benefit from it. At the very least the price gets driven up. Plus Sotheby's attracts a broader base of players.
I remember watching Stuart play ping pong at many shoe shows. He's an EXCELLENT player. Maybe a master or something like that. We made a play for his company when he was selling but were are were a little too unconventional for him to consider.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I will be surprised if it doesn't go for 10 million in this current environment.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Comments
What coin's legal situation/other stuff add $7,000,000 in value to the coin's price?
Why, how many other coins with populations of approximately a dozen, tend to bring considerably more than $3,000,000?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The question is flawed since there are very few coins period that bring more than $3,000,000 period. Again, my question is how do you just add 7 million for other stuff? What basis does anyone have for that?
It is basically a glorified 1927-D.
I think that Bruce has an exceptionally good feel for values of different rarities/ultra rarities. If there were a dozen legalized 1933 Saints, in order to try to come up with a "value", off the top of my head, I'd start out by looking at 1804 Dollar, 1894-S Dime and 1907 Ultra High Relief prices, then go from there.
Edited to add: The fact that there aren't too many $3,000,000 coins should tell you something. And among other things, it should tell you that the legalities have added several million dollars to the value of the only legal-to-own 1933 Saint. For the record, I'm not commenting on whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
One can speculate the same about the 1927-D regarding value---one never knows if more coins of that date may turn it up.
if it brings $10 then I'd say his feel for the value would need to be adjusted
Is it possible that we are being Blayed?
Martin
This reminds me a bit of pga golfer jim furyk. He says that amateurs often tell him we have the same swing. He responds no we dont---if we did your ball would have the same flight pattern as mine. Likewise, if the 1933 was just a glorified 1927-d, one would not be worth multiples of the other. Further, the 1933 would not be ranked as the 4th greatest coin and the 1927-d would not be ranked as the 64th greatest coin.
The thought crossed my mind as well
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I honestly hope the US Government makes a wise investment of about $10M, tears up the monetization agreement and then sells all of its 1933 $20s. It would be great for collectors
I wouldn’t. I don’t think he’s saying it won’t bring $10,000,000. But rather, that much of the “value” is due to the fact that it’s the only one which is legal to own. And frankly, if that is what he thinks, I don’t understand how anyone can disagree.
Do you think if there were a dozen that could be traded legally, they’d bring $3,000,000 or more each? And if so, why?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
80 Million not counting buyer's fees.
Everybody knows what this coin is.
Ask a non-collector what a Brasher Doubloon is..."A what?"
I showed a friend one of my 1920's saints years ago.
He said "Oh, nice replica" because he thought there was only one SG$20 in the world that wasn't melted(1933)
My Saint Set
What is more likely---more 1927ds are found or the govt makes the other 1933s legal?
Love the name.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
Based on that prediction, I think a change of your username is in order: ReadyFireBigMiss.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The '33's
I correct my misinterpretation.
should it bring $10, who's to say that the competing buyers think there is $7 in monetization?
Ask around and see how many knowledgeable numismatists think otherwise by plus or minus $1,000,000.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
.
.
This would be a tremendous outcome, imo. Let's dream a little bit here with @tradedollarnut 's excellent idea. . .
Collectors would benefit from the energy of uber rarities hitting the hobby. New and heavy hitters might be encouraged to join in the fun. The sales could be strung out, one or two pieces at a time. The excitement would further fuel the current boom in coins, creating additional new/strong interest in numismatics. This could then trigger a whole new wave of fresh faces entering the hobby at all levels. The U.S. Mint could hype the heck out of it and then potentially grow its customer base and increase sales to new record highs. The U.S. taxpayer and ordinary citizen would be the beneficiary of the economic impact (no matter how small it might be, relatively speaking).
Sadly, this is why it's never going to happen. It makes WAY too much sense for the government to do it.
I haven't seen anything to indicate this is even a remote possibility. They didn't buy this coin last time when it would have made much more sense. They fought tooth and nail in the Langbord case despite being offered a cut of the sale proceeds. IF they bought this one it would be gone from public ownership forever.
I'm still taking the over 10m and guess there is a greater than 50% chance that the owner isn't a collector per se.
And nobody swings like Furyk absolutely no one. Current world rank, 232nd.
Not really a fan of Furyk but a little unfair to say his current rank is 232. He is 50 and about to be on the senior tour. That swing of his did win a US Open and fed ex championship and a whole lot of money. He has done alright for himself.
Matt Wolfe
And a 58 along with a 59
it will sell for exactly $3,333,333.33
Roger Burdette on "monetization"
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/971823/when-bullion-becomes-money
And down the rabbit hole you go
My Saint Set
I agree but it is what it is. Also worth noting he was second in the world in 06. Second only to Woods and not a bad to place to be unless your Mickelson.
Another unique one. I’d be all right with Sergio or JT’s swing.
I don't think the government will spend $10M to do this. It would be bad publicity.
The way it could possibly happen is if someone buys it and donates it to the government.
I'm surprised at the pre-auction negativity around this coin.
I thought that was typically avoided here?
There is the added problem that the coin up for auction is no longer the best known. Obviously one can't speak for TDN, but his recent acquisitions have made it evident that having the "best known" can be an important factor for potential bidders with such a mind set.
My guess is that the top bidders will be bidding on the fact it's the only one available. The collectors hoping that government held coins become available may not be in the running.
Literally not impossible, but extremely improbable.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
If correct, and no reason to think otherwise, it adds to the prospect that someone outside of the coin collecting community will snag it. Another "X" factor with regard to this auction is the charity aspect. I have seen auctions where when the proceeds go to charity the intrinsic value of the item itself becomes secondary.
I'm not so sure, I'd venture a coin collector with many coins could want it as well. Certainly, if I had the budget for such a coin, it would be at the top of my list, above all other coins. Of course, others have remarked I like unique things. Unique to own is good with me. It would be a huge way to make a mark in all the discussions of provenance which is a driving factor for the desire.
Agreed, but I'm not sure how this will play out here since the primary beneficiaries seem to be the Weitzman Foundation and Weitzman School.
Here in the West, where I live, we have a term for words like "monetization".
It references a male bovine, and a particular product of the male bovine.
The J-1776 was estimated at $15M so I'm mostly interested if this will be above or below that figure.
Why does it matter to you whether the 1933 Saint sells for more than a particular estimate for another coin which might not even sell in our lifetime? Especially when other estimates for J-1776 could easily differ by various seven figure amounts.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Right now in this market, I think j-1776 sells for $25M.
The 1933 will almost certainly go to a non collector [2 exceptions i can think of if it goes at a reasonable level] as I believe most big collectors will shy away due to the other examples. A non collector will be more inclined to ignore those coins.
Why not have something to ponder? We’re all just having fun with these discussions.
I’d actually love it to go for more than the $70m Beeple artwork which I previously mentioned but I’ve been told that’s unrealistic.
Lol. Earlier you said "while dissecting...the value of the coin might be irrelevant...its fun." You answered your own question
I am still saying ≥$30 million, I think some of the lower estimates are undervaluing the history and the story of this coin. So many articles and books have been written about the 33's. I don't think the feds have any intention of making the others legal. If they were, they would have already done it. They clearly are committed to not doing so as history has shown. So this is it, you want to own what is probably the World's most famous coin, you get one shot. ≥$30 million............
There’s plenty to ponder. 😉 I’m just curious as to why you chose that particular estimate? I take it you saw that tradedollarnut subsequently posted a very different opinion regarding the current value of J-1776?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Agree. If someone wants fame, this is the coin to get. No other coin has as much going for it in this area.
$15M for J-1776 has been speculated years before. I don't know that it would go for higher now given that we haven't surpassed the high water mark for coins since 2013, and this particular piece is a pattern vs. part of a regularly issued coin series.
Of course, someone can offer whatever they want via private treaty. As mentioned before, I'm thinking of prices in a standard open auction.
I'd love to hear from Bruce on why he's estimating $25M now, and if he's thinking private treaty or auction.
Increasing the good possibility that a non coin collector ends up with the Saint is the fact that the proceeds are going to his charitable foundations. Stuart has lots of friends and neighbors around the world that could splurge on any of his items at auction. I wouldn't be surprised if there are in multiple bidders with their hands in the air like they don't care. They wouldn't be concerned if the hammer fell on them knowing a charity would benefit from it. At the very least the price gets driven up. Plus Sotheby's attracts a broader base of players.
I remember watching Stuart play ping pong at many shoe shows. He's an EXCELLENT player. Maybe a master or something like that. We made a play for his company when he was selling but were are were a little too unconventional for him to consider.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
you better warn them to stop at $3
I will be surprised if it doesn't go for 10 million in this current environment.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
3! save them!