@2dueces said:
Bills stocked up draft choices by dumping dead weight and over paid busts from the previous management. They traded up to draft Allen and Tremaine Edmunds. Both franchise leaders on their side of the ball.
How bad was previous management? They traded the 10th pick in 2017 to Kansas City. Kansas City picked some kid out of Texas. Some Mahomes guy. Is he still around?
Yes, I’ve heard of him. Plays corn hole for State Farm now. 😉
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@2dueces said:
Bills stocked up draft choices by dumping dead weight and over paid busts from the previous management. They traded up to draft Allen and Tremaine Edmunds. Both franchise leaders on their side of the ball.
How bad was previous management? They traded the 10th pick in 2017 to Kansas City. Kansas City picked some kid out of Texas. Some Mahomes guy. Is he still around?
Yes, I’ve heard of him. Plays corn hole for State Farm now. 😉
Likes a lot of Ketchup
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
every time i go back to West TX and turn on the TV, there is Mahomes in a McGavock Nissan commercial talking about how they have taken care of him for years like he's a long lost son
i swear one of these days i'm going to drive to Kansas City and break and enter my way into his garage and see what's in there
@galaxy27 said:
every time i go back to West TX and turn on the TV, there is Mahomes in a McGavock Nissan commercial talking about how they have taken care of him for years like he's a long lost son
i swear one of these days i'm going to drive to Kansas City and break and enter my way into his garage and see what's in there
It isn’t a Nissan that’s for sure. But coincidentally because of his commercials I bought a fleet. Nah that’s not true. I’ve owned Nissans on and off since the mid 80’s. Really reliable vehicles. My list since 86
Maxima
Camaroz28
Camaroz28
Altima - Harley
Rouge - Harley- F150
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Matt Cassel inherited a Stacked team, Brissett and Garoppolo played a few games, so to say that the entire time Brady was successful using those 3 guys as a model is absolutely ridiculous.
@perkdog said:
Matt Cassel inherited a Stacked team, Brissett and Garoppolo played a few games, so to say that the entire time Brady was successful using those 3 guys as a model is absolutely ridiculous.
This is correct. Had Brady QB'd the team in 08 they would have probably been a 1 or 2 loss team in the super bowl.
@perkdog said:
Matt Cassel inherited a Stacked team, Brissett and Garoppolo played a few games, so to say that the entire time Brady was successful using those 3 guys as a model is absolutely ridiculous.
I didn’t compare any of those QBs to Tom Brady at any point. I was merely correcting the point that Bill Bellichek is a .500 coach without Brady. He’s not and in the short span of time where Brady wasn’t the QB over the last 20 years, the Patriots went something like 18-7ish (that’s off the top of my head). Since Bill built those teams too I don’t think we can say he doesn’t get credit when they play great without Tom Brady.
To me, Paul, that says nothing about Brady but does same something about a coach getting blood from a stone, as I think both Cassell and Brissett kind of suck.
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@perkdog said:
Matt Cassel inherited a Stacked team, Brissett and Garoppolo played a few games, so to say that the entire time Brady was successful using those 3 guys as a model is absolutely ridiculous.
This is correct. Had Brady QB'd the team in 08 they would have probably been a 1 or 2 loss team in the super bowl.
Well, when he QB’d virtually the same team the next season in 2009, the Patriots went 10-6 and then lost in the first round of the playoffs.
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Belichick currently has a 21-23 record in NE without Brady and the whole “Pats are still a contender without Brady” is very overrated.
Won-Loss record without Brady:
2000: 5-11
2001: 0-2 (that second loss goes to Bledsoe even though he got hurt on the Mo Lewis hit)
2008: 11-5
2016: 3-1
2020: 2-4
The only reason that NE had a winning record in that 2008/2016 stretch was because both teams had SB contending rosters those years. We’re seeing what a less talented NE team looks like without Brady right now, they suck.
@perkdog said:
Matt Cassel inherited a Stacked team, Brissett and Garoppolo played a few games, so to say that the entire time Brady was successful using those 3 guys as a model is absolutely ridiculous.
This is correct. Had Brady QB'd the team in 08 they would have probably been a 1 or 2 loss team in the super bowl.
Well, when he QB’d virtually the same team the next season in 2009, the Patriots went 10-6 and then lost in the first round of the playoffs.
please explain why bill dumped jimmy G for a pick he later wasted , dumped bresset for a reciever he later dumped and failed to resign or extend the GOAT ?
Ok fine Bill you want to go with Jimmy G , so trade brady! If you trade Jimmy G then SIGN BRADY !
whichever guy he went with he inexplicably dumped the backup who as it turned out we really could have used right now. A guy who was good enough to start after andrew luck retired with no notice and save Indy's season.
he methodically stripped the team of talent at offense while missing on every draft pic
@perkdog said:
Matt Cassel inherited a Stacked team, Brissett and Garoppolo played a few games, so to say that the entire time Brady was successful using those 3 guys as a model is absolutely ridiculous.
This is correct. Had Brady QB'd the team in 08 they would have probably been a 1 or 2 loss team in the super bowl.
Well, when he QB’d virtually the same team the next season in 2009, the Patriots went 10-6 and then lost in the first round of the playoffs.
please explain why bill dumped jimmy G for a pick he later wasted , dumped bresset for a reciever he later dumped and failed to resign or extend the GOAT ?
Ok fine Bill you want to go with Jimmy G , so trade brady! If you trade Jimmy G then SIGN BRADY !
whichever guy he went with he inexplicably dumped the backup who as it turned out we really could have used right now. A guy who was good enough to start after andrew luck retired with no notice and save Indy's season.
he methodically stripped the team of talent at offense while missing on every draft pic
Because Kraft wanted him to be Brady’s replacement and Bill runs the team. Again the ego plays a role.
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
@perkdog said:
Matt Cassel inherited a Stacked team, Brissett and Garoppolo played a few games, so to say that the entire time Brady was successful using those 3 guys as a model is absolutely ridiculous.
This is correct. Had Brady QB'd the team in 08 they would have probably been a 1 or 2 loss team in the super bowl.
Well, when he QB’d virtually the same team the next season in 2009, the Patriots went 10-6 and then lost in the first round of the playoffs.
please explain why bill dumped jimmy G for a pick he later wasted , dumped bresset for a reciever he later dumped and failed to resign or extend the GOAT ?
Ok fine Bill you want to go with Jimmy G , so trade brady! If you trade Jimmy G then SIGN BRADY !
whichever guy he went with he inexplicably dumped the backup who as it turned out we really could have used right now. A guy who was good enough to start after andrew luck retired with no notice and save Indy's season.
he methodically stripped the team of talent at offense while missing on every draft pic
Because Kraft wanted him to be Brady’s replacement and Bill runs the team. Again the ego plays a role.
so he is butthurt that the owner has an opinion he goes all johnny marble on the team ?
how dare you have an opinion Bob , ill show you , ill burn the stadium down
If you’re really asking me, without looking, I think each pick was done around the time a contract was coming up. Kraft and Bill used it as plan B AND leverage.
Bob Kraft has relationships with both. For 20 years, he struck a balance and kept both men happy enough to keep it together. Nothing lasts forever.
I’m pretty sure Jimmy was moved because the Patriots actually put clauses in Brady’s contract about him getting less money ($1mil?) if he lost the job to Garrappolo. After the first year of that contract, my guess is Brady asked that Jimmy be traded so he couldn’t be messed with and Kraft made it happen.
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@1951WheatiesPremium said:
I also never thought much of Brissett and would have traded him for a bag of oranges.
Cut, not peeled.
you didn't? he is better than what we have now . He was a starter in Indy and all we got was Dorsett who was tossed aside even though he is better than every receiver we have this year .
When Bob over ruled Bill on Jimmy G bill burnt the house down and he is stinking up the joint with no skill players
@1951WheatiesPremium said:
I also never thought much of Brissett and would have traded him for a bag of oranges.
Cut, not peeled.
When Bob over ruled Bill on Jimmy G bill burnt the house down and he is stinking up the joint with no skill players
Since that trade three years ago, in order the Pats made the SuperBowl and lost, made the SuperBowl and won and lost in round one of playoffs. If that’s burning down the house he really sucks at it.
If you’d like to see what a house burning down actually looks like, see the New York Giants since they fired Tom Coughlin and kept Jerry Reese. I’d kill to have a GM with even a small clue.
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@perkdog said:
Matt Cassel inherited a Stacked team, Brissett and Garoppolo played a few games, so to say that the entire time Brady was successful using those 3 guys as a model is absolutely ridiculous.
I didn’t compare any of those QBs to Tom Brady at any point. I was merely correcting the point that Bill Bellichek is a .500 coach without Brady. He’s not and in the short span of time where Brady wasn’t the QB over the last 20 years, the Patriots went something like 18-7ish (that’s off the top of my head). Since Bill built those teams too I don’t think we can say he doesn’t get credit when they play great without Tom Brady.
To me, Paul, that says nothing about Brady but does same something about a coach getting blood from a stone, as I think both Cassell and Brissett kind of suck.
I’m not saying you did. I’m just saying in general that your argument is a common one and my point is if you took Cassel, Brissett or Garoppolo and had them play as many games as Brady did under Hoodies watch there is almost no chance the Pats would have won as many games as Brady did for the Pats.
So, to coach those three guys up - two of whom are league average guys - and not miss a beat is a pretty good feather in Bill’s cap. Many/most team perform significantly worse with a backup QB under center.
My only point in this thread is that this year is not going to be how you decide who deserved the greater share of credit for the success in New England. In reality, there isn’t ever going to be a way to tell. They were together too long and are too important to each others development. Bill drafted Tom, Bill gave the job to Brady over Bledsoe, which was somewhat controversial at the time. In turn, Tom gave Bill credibility with the team forever and at times, like the Atlanta SB, carried the entirety of coaches and players on his back.
Where do you want to or can you draw the lines?
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I think Skip has a point, but he is just a few years early. we arent even halfway through this season yet. we will need the perspective of time, when both are retired, to see how this really all shakes out.
Being a Patriots fan for over 30 years, it is honestly hard to choose sides. I love both BB and TB. I really dont like to pit the two against each other. I do however, put more value on the players on the field than coaching. I think it is fair to say that the patriots have been fortunate to have employed the greatest coach and QB of all time. and they happened to work at the same time.
Patriots could loose for 20 more years and i will still be basking in the glow of the last 20 year run.
love him or hate him, but Skip is knowledgeable. the guy has ate, slept and breathed sports for decades. the problem i have with him is that he has a hard time being impartial when it comes to guys/teams he likes/doesn't like. but i get why he does it -- if he and Shannon agreed on everything, undisputed would be a hard watch. so he regularly takes the opposing side and sensationalizes it for ratings.
that said, i watched this 5 min clip. i disagree with him often, but not in this case. Bill Belly was 36-44 with the Browns. he was 5-13 with the Pats before Brady was inserted as starting QB in week 3 back in 2001. for those scoring at home, that's a combined 41-57 pre-Tom Brady. then, a switch was flipped. 6 super bowl victories in 19 years. then 2020 came around and the switch was flipped again. thru 6 weeks minus Brady, Bill is reverting back to his Cleveland Browns/pre-Tom Brady Patriots days at 2-4.
if Tom Brady never existed, do you honestly think a guy who was 16 games under .500 would miraculously right the ship and win 6 super bowls over the next (roughly) two decades?
I began coaching with the Giants, too. The I went out on my own.
I had a rough go.
Started 0-11-1.
Through my first six season I was 25-56.
Eventually, I won two Super Bowls, put a franchise on the map and created America’s team.
I’m Tom Landry and I approve this message.
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and in 1966 when Landry turned the corner and went 10-3, Don Meredith (who is a member of the Cowboys' ring of honor) went to the Pro Bowl. same for the next two seasons. then in 1969, some guy named Roger Staubach arrived and a decade of success and two super bowl victories ensued.
Phil Jackson won 3 consecutive titles from 90-93. Jordan was banned from the league for 2 seasons and the Rockets went back-to-back. Jordan returned and the Bulls won 3 more in a row.
love him or hate him, but Skip is knowledgeable. the guy has ate, slept and breathed sports for decades. the problem i have with him is that he has a hard time being impartial when it comes to guys/teams he likes/doesn't like. but i get why he does it -- if he and Shannon agreed on everything, undisputed would be a hard watch. so he regularly takes the opposing side and sensationalizes it for ratings.
that said, i watched this 5 min clip. i disagree with him often, but not in this case. Bill Belly was 36-44 with the Browns. he was 5-13 with the Pats before Brady was inserted as starting QB in week 3 back in 2001. for those scoring at home, that's a combined 41-57 pre-Tom Brady. then, a switch was flipped. 6 super bowl victories in 19 years. then 2020 came around and the switch was flipped again. thru 6 weeks minus Brady, Bill is reverting back to his Cleveland Browns/pre-Tom Brady Patriots days at 2-4.
if Tom Brady never existed, do you honestly think a guy who was 16 games under .500 would miraculously right the ship and win 6 super bowls over the next (roughly) two decades?
that question is so ludicrous it's laughable
Belichick was allowed the time, platform, and length of leash necessary to be able to perfect and implement his ways only because he had Brady.
Brady certainly then benefited in many ways from Belichick too. Belichick was never forced to go through a rebuild. If he had, perhaps Brady would have been gone. Like I've said before, it was the perfect storm.
@galaxy27 said:
and in 1966 when Landry turned the corner and went 10-3, Don Meredith (who is a member of the Cowboys' ring of honor) went to the Pro Bowl. same for the next two seasons. then in 1969, some guy named Roger Staubach arrived and a decade of success and two super bowl victories ensued.
Phil Jackson won 3 consecutive titles from 90-93. Jordan was banned from the league for 2 seasons and the Rockets went back-to-back. Jordan returned and the Bulls won 3 more in a row.
players make coaches, not vice versa
Let’s flip the script, then.
Pretend Tom stayed in New England this year and Bellichek left to go coach a Super Bowl contender like Baltimore or Pittsburgh.
Would we then say it was Bellichek all along?
You think Tom has this NE team undefeated?
By the way, one of those years the Bulls were one game away from the NBA Finals and were a top seed (1 or 2) with Jordan over playing baseball.
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@galaxy27 said:
and in 1966 when Landry turned the corner and went 10-3, Don Meredith (who is a member of the Cowboys' ring of honor) went to the Pro Bowl. same for the next two seasons. then in 1969, some guy named Roger Staubach arrived and a decade of success and two super bowl victories ensued.
Phil Jackson won 3 consecutive titles from 90-93. Jordan was banned from the league for 2 seasons and the Rockets went back-to-back. Jordan returned and the Bulls won 3 more in a row.
players make coaches, not vice versa
Let’s flip the script, then.
Pretend Tom stayed in New England this year and Bellichek left to go coach a Super Bowl contender like Baltimore or Pittsburgh.
Would we then say it was Bellichek all along?
You think Tom has this NE team undefeated?
> By the way, one of those years the Bulls were one game away from the NBA Finals and were a top seed (1 or 2) with Jordan over playing baseball.
Chicago never made it out of the second round during that Jordan hiatus and finished as a 3rd seed and a 5th seed. They really weren’t that good without MJ.
@galaxy27 said:
and in 1966 when Landry turned the corner and went 10-3, Don Meredith (who is a member of the Cowboys' ring of honor) went to the Pro Bowl. same for the next two seasons. then in 1969, some guy named Roger Staubach arrived and a decade of success and two super bowl victories ensued.
Phil Jackson won 3 consecutive titles from 90-93. Jordan was banned from the league for 2 seasons and the Rockets went back-to-back. Jordan returned and the Bulls won 3 more in a row.
players make coaches, not vice versa
Let’s flip the script, then.
Pretend Tom stayed in New England this year and Bellichek left to go coach a Super Bowl contender like Baltimore or Pittsburgh.
Would we then say it was Bellichek all along?
You think Tom has this NE team undefeated?
> By the way, one of those years the Bulls were one game away from the NBA Finals and were a top seed (1 or 2) with Jordan over playing baseball.
Chicago never made it out of the second round during that Jordan hiatus and finished as a 3rd seed and a 5th seed. They really weren’t that good without MJ.
Totally right. My mistake. One game away from Conference Finals, not NBA. I forgot the Knicks still had the Pacers before Houston when coming out of the East that year.
But, I thought - when taking the best player in the game off the team - the Bulls put together quite respectable seasons without him. It was so abrupt and there was no draft pick or talented player/players coming back as you’d have had under a more normal departure. Especially that year as a 3 seed. 55-27 back then was pretty legit.
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I still think Bill taking Brady, round 6 of 2000 draft, is not getting enough credit nor is the switch at QB. These are both ALL Bill and there is literally no Tom Brady or Patriot dynasty without those two decisions plus basically all the other personnel and football decisions from soup to nuts. Are we forgetting that Tom was just along for the ride in the first run? That year two was no playoffs? That the defense from 2001-2007 was historically good? And that as Tom continued to improve to the point where he was the best in the game and that he had the foresight and ability to shift organizational priorities to providing a slew of offensive weapons forever after that? Not all hits (impossible) but always, always attempts to load up. And what about the ability to take chances on guys like Corey Dillon, Randy Moss and other ‘reclamation’ projects that no one else in the league wanted and the Pats rode to championships?
Kind of fun, too, these are the spots where Brady could have landed if the Patriots hadn’t taken him in round 6. I wonder if those teams, coaches and cities would have seen him rise through the ranks, you know? With some, may be...
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@galaxy27 said:
and in 1966 when Landry turned the corner and went 10-3, Don Meredith (who is a member of the Cowboys' ring of honor) went to the Pro Bowl. same for the next two seasons. then in 1969, some guy named Roger Staubach arrived and a decade of success and two super bowl victories ensued.
Phil Jackson won 3 consecutive titles from 90-93. Jordan was banned from the league for 2 seasons and the Rockets went back-to-back. Jordan returned and the Bulls won 3 more in a row.
players make coaches, not vice versa
Let’s flip the script, then.
Pretend Tom stayed in New England this year and Bellichek left to go coach a Super Bowl contender like Baltimore or Pittsburgh.
Would we then say it was Bellichek all along?
You think Tom has this NE team undefeated?
> By the way, one of those years the Bulls were one game away from the NBA Finals and were a top seed (1 or 2) with Jordan over playing baseball.
Chicago never made it out of the second round during that Jordan hiatus and finished as a 3rd seed and a 5th seed. They really weren’t that good without MJ.
Totally right. My mistake. One game away from Conference Finals, not NBA. I forgot the Knicks still had the Pacers before Houston when coming out of the East that year.
But, I thought - when taking the best player in the game off the team - the Bulls put together quite respectable seasons without him. It was so abrupt and there was no draft pick or talented player/players coming back as you’d have had under a more normal departure. Especially that year as a 3 seed. 55-27 back then was pretty legit.
The difference here though is This current NE team isn’t even close to having a respectable season at this point. They’re really bad right now if you haven’t seen them play and I honestly don’t even see them finishing close to .500.
I get the point you’re trying to make but I just think the two sports aren’t really comparable here. MJ left and the Bulls still had a top 5 player in a sport where having just one elite player can get your team to the playoffs but didn’t go far once they got there. It’s not the same in the NFL.
@galaxy27 said:
and in 1966 when Landry turned the corner and went 10-3, Don Meredith (who is a member of the Cowboys' ring of honor) went to the Pro Bowl. same for the next two seasons. then in 1969, some guy named Roger Staubach arrived and a decade of success and two super bowl victories ensued.
Phil Jackson won 3 consecutive titles from 90-93. Jordan was banned from the league for 2 seasons and the Rockets went back-to-back. Jordan returned and the Bulls won 3 more in a row.
players make coaches, not vice versa
Let’s flip the script, then.
Pretend Tom stayed in New England this year and Bellichek left to go coach a Super Bowl contender like Baltimore or Pittsburgh.
Would we then say it was Bellichek all along?
You think Tom has this NE team undefeated?
> By the way, one of those years the Bulls were one game away from the NBA Finals and were a top seed (1 or 2) with Jordan over playing baseball.
Chicago never made it out of the second round during that Jordan hiatus and finished as a 3rd seed and a 5th seed. They really weren’t that good without MJ.
Totally right. My mistake. One game away from Conference Finals, not NBA. I forgot the Knicks still had the Pacers before Houston when coming out of the East that year.
But, I thought - when taking the best player in the game off the team - the Bulls put together quite respectable seasons without him. It was so abrupt and there was no draft pick or talented player/players coming back as you’d have had under a more normal departure. Especially that year as a 3 seed. 55-27 back then was pretty legit.
The difference here though is This current NE team isn’t even close to having a respectable season at this point. They’re really bad right now if you haven’t seen them play and I honestly don’t even see them finishing close to .500.
I get the point you’re trying to make but I just think the two sports aren’t really comparable here. MJ left and the Bulls still had a top 5 player in a sport where having just one elite player can get your team to the playoffs but didn’t go far once they got there. It’s not the same in the NFL.
They’re semi separate topics to me and I was addressing them separately. Someone else brought Phil Jackson into the discussion and I was pointing out that he did a good job while Michael left. In 1993 when they won it all, they went 57-25.
But in a effort to tie both points better together, anyway: when you lose your best player abruptly in any sport and you don’t see a huge drop off in team performance I think some of that can be rightly attributed to good coaching.
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@galaxy27 said:
and in 1966 when Landry turned the corner and went 10-3, Don Meredith (who is a member of the Cowboys' ring of honor) went to the Pro Bowl. same for the next two seasons. then in 1969, some guy named Roger Staubach arrived and a decade of success and two super bowl victories ensued.
Phil Jackson won 3 consecutive titles from 90-93. Jordan was banned from the league for 2 seasons and the Rockets went back-to-back. Jordan returned and the Bulls won 3 more in a row.
players make coaches, not vice versa
Let’s flip the script, then.
Pretend Tom stayed in New England this year and Bellichek left to go coach a Super Bowl contender like Baltimore or Pittsburgh.
Would we then say it was Bellichek all along?
You think Tom has this NE team undefeated?
> By the way, one of those years the Bulls were one game away from the NBA Finals and were a top seed (1 or 2) with Jordan over playing baseball.
Chicago never made it out of the second round during that Jordan hiatus and finished as a 3rd seed and a 5th seed. They really weren’t that good without MJ.
Totally right. My mistake. One game away from Conference Finals, not NBA. I forgot the Knicks still had the Pacers before Houston when coming out of the East that year.
But, I thought - when taking the best player in the game off the team - the Bulls put together quite respectable seasons without him. It was so abrupt and there was no draft pick or talented player/players coming back as you’d have had under a more normal departure. Especially that year as a 3 seed. 55-27 back then was pretty legit.
The difference here though is This current NE team isn’t even close to having a respectable season at this point. They’re really bad right now if you haven’t seen them play and I honestly don’t even see them finishing close to .500.
I get the point you’re trying to make but I just think the two sports aren’t really comparable here. MJ left and the Bulls still had a top 5 player in a sport where having just one elite player can get your team to the playoffs but didn’t go far once they got there. It’s not the same in the NFL.
They’re semi separate topics to me and I was addressing them separately. Someone else brought Phil Jackson into the discussion and I was pointing out that he did a good job while Michael left. In 1993 when they won it all, they went 57-25.
But in a effort to tie both points better together, anyway: when you lose your best player abruptly in any sport and you don’t see a huge drop off in team performance I think some of that can be rightly attributed to good coaching.
I’m not gonna start ripping on Belichick but from a Pats fan standpoint,we’ve already seen a huge drop off in offensive performance especially at the QB position. Cam sucks and BB is likely to stick with him starting going forward. Bill should just blow this team up and start acquiring more draft picks.
@galaxy27 said:
and in 1966 when Landry turned the corner and went 10-3, Don Meredith (who is a member of the Cowboys' ring of honor) went to the Pro Bowl. same for the next two seasons. then in 1969, some guy named Roger Staubach arrived and a decade of success and two super bowl victories ensued.
Phil Jackson won 3 consecutive titles from 90-93. Jordan was banned from the league for 2 seasons and the Rockets went back-to-back. Jordan returned and the Bulls won 3 more in a row.
players make coaches, not vice versa
Let’s flip the script, then.
Pretend Tom stayed in New England this year and Bellichek left to go coach a Super Bowl contender like Baltimore or Pittsburgh.
Would we then say it was Bellichek all along?
You think Tom has this NE team undefeated?
> By the way, one of those years the Bulls were one game away from the NBA Finals and were a top seed (1 or 2) with Jordan over playing baseball.
Chicago never made it out of the second round during that Jordan hiatus and finished as a 3rd seed and a 5th seed. They really weren’t that good without MJ.
Totally right. My mistake. One game away from Conference Finals, not NBA. I forgot the Knicks still had the Pacers before Houston when coming out of the East that year.
But, I thought - when taking the best player in the game off the team - the Bulls put together quite respectable seasons without him. It was so abrupt and there was no draft pick or talented player/players coming back as you’d have had under a more normal departure. Especially that year as a 3 seed. 55-27 back then was pretty legit.
The difference here though is This current NE team isn’t even close to having a respectable season at this point. They’re really bad right now if you haven’t seen them play and I honestly don’t even see them finishing close to .500.
I get the point you’re trying to make but I just think the two sports aren’t really comparable here. MJ left and the Bulls still had a top 5 player in a sport where having just one elite player can get your team to the playoffs but didn’t go far once they got there. It’s not the same in the NFL.
They’re semi separate topics to me and I was addressing them separately. Someone else brought Phil Jackson into the discussion and I was pointing out that he did a good job while Michael left. In 1993 when they won it all, they went 57-25.
But in a effort to tie both points better together, anyway: when you lose your best player abruptly in any sport and you don’t see a huge drop off in team performance I think some of that can be rightly attributed to good coaching.
they didn't lose the best player he was sent away. All they had to do was pay him 30 million. If they kept garrapalo they would have had to pay him at least 20 right?
Bill thinks its all him and he can just plug in the next minimum wage guy so he set this up to prove he was right and he isnt right
Also, is it that bad to have a down year the year Trevor Lawrence comes out? I mean, most of the other teams with a high pick took their ‘QB of the future’ within the last 3 years. So, with a ‘down year’ and a top ten pick, they might be the only team looking for a QB that high aside from maybe Jacksonville.
Just pointing that out. 😉
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@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Also, is it that bad to have a down year the year Trevor Lawrence comes out? I mean, most of the other teams with a high pick took their ‘QB of the future’ within the last 3 years. So, with a ‘down year’ and a top ten pick, they might be the only team looking for a QB that high aside from maybe Jacksonville.
Just pointing that out. 😉
I can name 4-5 teams that need a franchise QB.
Atlanta
Indianapolis
Jacksonville
New England
Chicago
Bubble trades
Jets
Broncos
If you’re the Jets, you are taking Trevor Lawrence or trading the 1st pick for 2 #1’s and 2 #2’s.
Or you’re trading Darnold ( good for him) for a #1 a #2 and 2 #3’s.
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Also, is it that bad to have a down year the year Trevor Lawrence comes out? I mean, most of the other teams with a high pick took their ‘QB of the future’ within the last 3 years. So, with a ‘down year’ and a top ten pick, they might be the only team looking for a QB that high aside from maybe Jacksonville.
Just pointing that out. 😉
I can name 4-5 teams that need a franchise QB.
Atlanta
Indianapolis
Jacksonville
New England
Chicago
Bubble trades
Jets
Broncos
If you’re the Jets, you are taking Trevor Lawrence or trading the 1st pick for 2 #1’s and 2 #2’s.
Or you’re trading Darnold ( good for him) for a #1 a #2 and 2 #3’s.
darnold isn't worth all those picks he has been ruined by being a jet.
the patriots don't draft talented players in any round except by mistake . Bill thinks they are all the same interchangeable . He said no to metcalf he thinks nyquil harry is the same exact player.
Although he will waste 1st round picks on running backs which dont even matter any more. See the Giants picking barkley , waste of a pick
But no wise old bill says up is down right? We have no talent now at any talent position , everyone on our team could be working at burger king tomorrow .
No top receiver no tight end no QB no pass rush and a top corner on his way out of town in exchange for a future wasted pick
@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Also, is it that bad to have a down year the year Trevor Lawrence comes out? I mean, most of the other teams with a high pick took their ‘QB of the future’ within the last 3 years. So, with a ‘down year’ and a top ten pick, they might be the only team looking for a QB that high aside from maybe Jacksonville.
Just pointing that out. 😉
I can name 4-5 teams that need a franchise QB.
Atlanta
Indianapolis
Jacksonville
New England
Chicago
Bubble trades
Jets
Broncos
If you’re the Jets, you are taking Trevor Lawrence or trading the 1st pick for 2 #1’s and 2 #2’s.
Or you’re trading Darnold ( good for him) for a #1 a #2 and 2 #3’s.
darnold isn't worth all those picks he has been ruined by being a jet.
the patriots don't draft talented players in any round except by mistake . Bill thinks they are all the same interchangeable . He said no to metcalf he thinks nyquil harry is the same exact player.
Although he will waste 1st round picks on running backs which dont even matter any more. See the Giants picking barkley , waste of a pick
But no wise old bill says up is down right? We have no talent now at any talent position , everyone on our team could be working at burger king tomorrow .
No top receiver no tight end no QB no pass rush and a top corner on his way out of town in exchange for a future wasted pick
I think that this boat will be well on its way to being turned around within one year.
@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Also, is it that bad to have a down year the year Trevor Lawrence comes out? I mean, most of the other teams with a high pick took their ‘QB of the future’ within the last 3 years. So, with a ‘down year’ and a top ten pick, they might be the only team looking for a QB that high aside from maybe Jacksonville.
Just pointing that out. 😉
I can name 4-5 teams that need a franchise QB.
Atlanta
Indianapolis
Jacksonville
New England
Chicago
Bubble trades
Jets
Broncos
If you’re the Jets, you are taking Trevor Lawrence or trading the 1st pick for 2 #1’s and 2 #2’s.
Or you’re trading Darnold ( good for him) for a #1 a #2 and 2 #3’s.
darnold isn't worth all those picks he has been ruined by being a jet.
the patriots don't draft talented players in any round except by mistake . Bill thinks they are all the same interchangeable . He said no to metcalf he thinks nyquil harry is the same exact player.
Although he will waste 1st round picks on running backs which dont even matter any more. See the Giants picking barkley , waste of a pick
But no wise old bill says up is down right? We have no talent now at any talent position , everyone on our team could be working at burger king tomorrow .
No top receiver no tight end no QB no pass rush and a top corner on his way out of town in exchange for a future wasted pick
@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Also, is it that bad to have a down year the year Trevor Lawrence comes out? I mean, most of the other teams with a high pick took their ‘QB of the future’ within the last 3 years. So, with a ‘down year’ and a top ten pick, they might be the only team looking for a QB that high aside from maybe Jacksonville.
Just pointing that out. 😉
I can name 4-5 teams that need a franchise QB.
Atlanta
Indianapolis
Jacksonville
New England
Chicago
Bubble trades
Jets
Broncos
If you’re the Jets, you are taking Trevor Lawrence or trading the 1st pick for 2 #1’s and 2 #2’s.
Or you’re trading Darnold ( good for him) for a #1 a #2 and 2 #3’s.
You know it and I know it but honestly those teams may not and I’m not really joking. Matt Ryan is beloved, the Jaguars like Minshew and need more than just a QB and Chicago has Trubusty and Foles, etc.
There’s also plenty more season left to play so things could change quite a bit in the standings and the league but I’m only saying that IF the Pats have a down year and end up in the top 5 in the draft it could potentially be a good year for it to happen.
Also, there’s a distinct possibility that Tom may have looked around and said I still want to win and this team sucks so I’m out of here for cash and a chance at a Super Bowl. Who knows what goes on behind closed doors. Agents and front office folks lie for a living.
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all Tom wanted was job security and people to throw to. Pay him 30 million for 3 years after the jimmy G trade and none of this happens
he still has plenty of ability as we can see. but somehow bill couldn't see 3 years ago that he still had it? Bullshit , this is the coaches ego that caused this
Extend Brady to age 45 and none of this happens . If he turned bad like peyton he would have retired anyway.
The patriots are 31st in payroll ,that is ridiculous!
The Giants current GM said he wanted to build around Eli (lie, pulled rug out), wouldn’t sign Odell to turn around and trade him (lie, signed him then traded him) and my personal favorite has to be from his first day on the job that he believes you win with hog mollies* but then uses his first TWO first round picks as GM on a running back and then a quarterback. That lie was unforgivable as it has set my team back another 5 years with what looks like a whiff on LT Andrew Thomas this year. He could
maybe move to the right side and play well but right now he’s getting manhandled as a rookie. Manhandled. A top 5 pick should step in and play and be dominant by year 2 or 3. We’re already talking moving him off left tackle.
They lie.
*big skilled offensive linemen
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With all of this talk about teams not needing a QB because they already drafted “their guy” then just look at the Cardinals in the 2018/2019 drafts; in 2018 they trade a 1st,3rd & 5th to Oakland to move from the 15th pick to the 10th pick then draft QB Josh Rosen, then a year later in the 2019 they draft Kyler Murray with the 1st overall pick in the draft and Rosen gets traded to Miami. If teams think Trevor Lawrence is a legit franchise QB and better than their current QB then we could definitely see that scenario play out again. I’m not familiar with college football but it could possibly even be a different QB than Lawrence.
@erikthredd said:
With all of this talk about teams not needing a QB because they already drafted “their guy” then just look at the Cardinals in the 2018/2019 drafts; in 2018 they trade a 1st,3rd & 5th to Oakland to move from the 15th pick to the 10th pick then draft QB Josh Rosen, then a year later in the 2019 they draft Kyler Murray with the 1st overall pick in the draft and Rosen gets traded to Miami. If teams think Trevor Lawrence is a legit franchise QB and better than their current QB then we could definitely see that scenario play out again. I’m not familiar with college football but it could possibly even be a different QB than Lawrence.
They really missed hard on Rosen, he is absolutely horrendous. I give the Cards credit for moving on like they did, as good as Lamar Jackson is I think Allen overall will end up being the best pick out of that draft
There are just a handful of teams that wouldn’t build around Trevor Lawrence with the success Joe Burrows is having and Trevor Lawrence was rated above him. Hell Burrows couldn’t start until his last year and he had 17 NFL players around him. Lawrence is a once in a decade talent.
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
@2dueces said:
There are just a handful of teams that wouldn’t build around Trevor Lawrence with the success Joe Burrows is having and Trevor Lawrence was rated above him. Hell Burrows couldn’t start until his last year and he had 17 NFL players around him. Lawrence is a once in a decade talent.
Unless you have an elite QB that’s around 30, if you have the first pick it’s Lawrence.
@2dueces said:
There are just a handful of teams that wouldn’t build around Trevor Lawrence with the success Joe Burrows is having and Trevor Lawrence was rated above him. Hell Burrows couldn’t start until his last year and he had 17 NFL players around him. Lawrence is a once in a decade talent.
Unless you have an elite QB that’s around 30, if you have the first pick it’s Lawrence.
@2dueces said:
There are just a handful of teams that wouldn’t build around Trevor Lawrence with the success Joe Burrows is having and Trevor Lawrence was rated above him. Hell Burrows couldn’t start until his last year and he had 17 NFL players around him. Lawrence is a once in a decade talent.
Unless you have an elite QB that’s around 30, if you have the first pick it’s Lawrence.
Yeah, the list of teams that would NOT draft Lawrence is really, really short. Like KC and Baltimore and Arizona. Maybe Houston. Everyone else drafts him.
@2dueces said:
There are just a handful of teams that wouldn’t build around Trevor Lawrence with the success Joe Burrows is having and Trevor Lawrence was rated above him. Hell Burrows couldn’t start until his last year and he had 17 NFL players around him. Lawrence is a once in a decade talent.
Unless you have an elite QB that’s around 30, if you have the first pick it’s Lawrence.
@2dueces said:
There are just a handful of teams that wouldn’t build around Trevor Lawrence with the success Joe Burrows is having and Trevor Lawrence was rated above him. Hell Burrows couldn’t start until his last year and he had 17 NFL players around him. Lawrence is a once in a decade talent.
Unless you have an elite QB that’s around 30, if you have the first pick it’s Lawrence.
Yeah, the list of teams that would NOT draft Lawrence is really, really short. Like KC and Baltimore and Arizona. Maybe Houston. Everyone else drafts him.
Comments
Yes, I’ve heard of him. Plays corn hole for State Farm now. 😉
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Likes a lot of Ketchup
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
every time i go back to West TX and turn on the TV, there is Mahomes in a McGavock Nissan commercial talking about how they have taken care of him for years like he's a long lost son
i swear one of these days i'm going to drive to Kansas City and break and enter my way into his garage and see what's in there
It isn’t a Nissan that’s for sure. But coincidentally because of his commercials I bought a fleet. Nah that’s not true. I’ve owned Nissans on and off since the mid 80’s. Really reliable vehicles. My list since 86
Maxima
Camaroz28
Camaroz28
Altima - Harley
Rouge - Harley- F150
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Matt Cassel inherited a Stacked team, Brissett and Garoppolo played a few games, so to say that the entire time Brady was successful using those 3 guys as a model is absolutely ridiculous.
This is correct. Had Brady QB'd the team in 08 they would have probably been a 1 or 2 loss team in the super bowl.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I didn’t compare any of those QBs to Tom Brady at any point. I was merely correcting the point that Bill Bellichek is a .500 coach without Brady. He’s not and in the short span of time where Brady wasn’t the QB over the last 20 years, the Patriots went something like 18-7ish (that’s off the top of my head). Since Bill built those teams too I don’t think we can say he doesn’t get credit when they play great without Tom Brady.
To me, Paul, that says nothing about Brady but does same something about a coach getting blood from a stone, as I think both Cassell and Brissett kind of suck.
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Well, when he QB’d virtually the same team the next season in 2009, the Patriots went 10-6 and then lost in the first round of the playoffs.
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Belichick currently has a 21-23 record in NE without Brady and the whole “Pats are still a contender without Brady” is very overrated.
Won-Loss record without Brady:
2000: 5-11
2001: 0-2 (that second loss goes to Bledsoe even though he got hurt on the Mo Lewis hit)
2008: 11-5
2016: 3-1
2020: 2-4
The only reason that NE had a winning record in that 2008/2016 stretch was because both teams had SB contending rosters those years. We’re seeing what a less talented NE team looks like without Brady right now, they suck.
Eric
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Brady's doing just fine.
please explain why bill dumped jimmy G for a pick he later wasted , dumped bresset for a reciever he later dumped and failed to resign or extend the GOAT ?
Ok fine Bill you want to go with Jimmy G , so trade brady! If you trade Jimmy G then SIGN BRADY !
whichever guy he went with he inexplicably dumped the backup who as it turned out we really could have used right now. A guy who was good enough to start after andrew luck retired with no notice and save Indy's season.
he methodically stripped the team of talent at offense while missing on every draft pic
Because Kraft wanted him to be Brady’s replacement and Bill runs the team. Again the ego plays a role.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
so he is butthurt that the owner has an opinion he goes all johnny marble on the team ?
how dare you have an opinion Bob , ill show you , ill burn the stadium down
@bronco2078
If you’re really asking me, without looking, I think each pick was done around the time a contract was coming up. Kraft and Bill used it as plan B AND leverage.
Bob Kraft has relationships with both. For 20 years, he struck a balance and kept both men happy enough to keep it together. Nothing lasts forever.
I’m pretty sure Jimmy was moved because the Patriots actually put clauses in Brady’s contract about him getting less money ($1mil?) if he lost the job to Garrappolo. After the first year of that contract, my guess is Brady asked that Jimmy be traded so he couldn’t be messed with and Kraft made it happen.
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I also never thought much of Brissett and would have traded him for a bag of oranges.
Cut, not peeled.
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you didn't? he is better than what we have now . He was a starter in Indy and all we got was Dorsett who was tossed aside even though he is better than every receiver we have this year .
When Bob over ruled Bill on Jimmy G bill burnt the house down and he is stinking up the joint with no skill players
Since that trade three years ago, in order the Pats made the SuperBowl and lost, made the SuperBowl and won and lost in round one of playoffs. If that’s burning down the house he really sucks at it.
If you’d like to see what a house burning down actually looks like, see the New York Giants since they fired Tom Coughlin and kept Jerry Reese. I’d kill to have a GM with even a small clue.
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I’m not saying you did. I’m just saying in general that your argument is a common one and my point is if you took Cassel, Brissett or Garoppolo and had them play as many games as Brady did under Hoodies watch there is almost no chance the Pats would have won as many games as Brady did for the Pats.
Exactly.
So, to coach those three guys up - two of whom are league average guys - and not miss a beat is a pretty good feather in Bill’s cap. Many/most team perform significantly worse with a backup QB under center.
My only point in this thread is that this year is not going to be how you decide who deserved the greater share of credit for the success in New England. In reality, there isn’t ever going to be a way to tell. They were together too long and are too important to each others development. Bill drafted Tom, Bill gave the job to Brady over Bledsoe, which was somewhat controversial at the time. In turn, Tom gave Bill credibility with the team forever and at times, like the Atlanta SB, carried the entirety of coaches and players on his back.
Where do you want to or can you draw the lines?
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https://nesn.com/2020/10/is-tom-brady-exposing-bill-belichick-skip-bayless-explains/
I think Skip has a point, but he is just a few years early. we arent even halfway through this season yet. we will need the perspective of time, when both are retired, to see how this really all shakes out.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Being a Patriots fan for over 30 years, it is honestly hard to choose sides. I love both BB and TB. I really dont like to pit the two against each other. I do however, put more value on the players on the field than coaching. I think it is fair to say that the patriots have been fortunate to have employed the greatest coach and QB of all time. and they happened to work at the same time.
Patriots could loose for 20 more years and i will still be basking in the glow of the last 20 year run.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
love him or hate him, but Skip is knowledgeable. the guy has ate, slept and breathed sports for decades. the problem i have with him is that he has a hard time being impartial when it comes to guys/teams he likes/doesn't like. but i get why he does it -- if he and Shannon agreed on everything, undisputed would be a hard watch. so he regularly takes the opposing side and sensationalizes it for ratings.
that said, i watched this 5 min clip. i disagree with him often, but not in this case. Bill Belly was 36-44 with the Browns. he was 5-13 with the Pats before Brady was inserted as starting QB in week 3 back in 2001. for those scoring at home, that's a combined 41-57 pre-Tom Brady. then, a switch was flipped. 6 super bowl victories in 19 years. then 2020 came around and the switch was flipped again. thru 6 weeks minus Brady, Bill is reverting back to his Cleveland Browns/pre-Tom Brady Patriots days at 2-4.
if Tom Brady never existed, do you honestly think a guy who was 16 games under .500 would miraculously right the ship and win 6 super bowls over the next (roughly) two decades?
that question is so ludicrous it's laughable
Here is some more reading to go with your morning coffee ☕️ https://www.boston.com/sports/nfl/2020/10/27/tom-brady-peter-king-new-england-hopeless-for-quarterback/amp
I began coaching with the Giants, too. The I went out on my own.
I had a rough go.
Started 0-11-1.
Through my first six season I was 25-56.
Eventually, I won two Super Bowls, put a franchise on the map and created America’s team.
I’m Tom Landry and I approve this message.
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and in 1966 when Landry turned the corner and went 10-3, Don Meredith (who is a member of the Cowboys' ring of honor) went to the Pro Bowl. same for the next two seasons. then in 1969, some guy named Roger Staubach arrived and a decade of success and two super bowl victories ensued.
Phil Jackson won 3 consecutive titles from 90-93. Jordan was banned from the league for 2 seasons and the Rockets went back-to-back. Jordan returned and the Bulls won 3 more in a row.
players make coaches, not vice versa
Belichick was allowed the time, platform, and length of leash necessary to be able to perfect and implement his ways only because he had Brady.
Brady certainly then benefited in many ways from Belichick too. Belichick was never forced to go through a rebuild. If he had, perhaps Brady would have been gone. Like I've said before, it was the perfect storm.
Let’s flip the script, then.
Pretend Tom stayed in New England this year and Bellichek left to go coach a Super Bowl contender like Baltimore or Pittsburgh.
Would we then say it was Bellichek all along?
You think Tom has this NE team undefeated?
By the way, one of those years the Bulls were one game away from the NBA Finals and were a top seed (1 or 2) with Jordan over playing baseball.
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> By the way, one of those years the Bulls were one game away from the NBA Finals and were a top seed (1 or 2) with Jordan over playing baseball.
Chicago never made it out of the second round during that Jordan hiatus and finished as a 3rd seed and a 5th seed. They really weren’t that good without MJ.
Eric
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Totally right. My mistake. One game away from Conference Finals, not NBA. I forgot the Knicks still had the Pacers before Houston when coming out of the East that year.
But, I thought - when taking the best player in the game off the team - the Bulls put together quite respectable seasons without him. It was so abrupt and there was no draft pick or talented player/players coming back as you’d have had under a more normal departure. Especially that year as a 3 seed. 55-27 back then was pretty legit.
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I still think Bill taking Brady, round 6 of 2000 draft, is not getting enough credit nor is the switch at QB. These are both ALL Bill and there is literally no Tom Brady or Patriot dynasty without those two decisions plus basically all the other personnel and football decisions from soup to nuts. Are we forgetting that Tom was just along for the ride in the first run? That year two was no playoffs? That the defense from 2001-2007 was historically good? And that as Tom continued to improve to the point where he was the best in the game and that he had the foresight and ability to shift organizational priorities to providing a slew of offensive weapons forever after that? Not all hits (impossible) but always, always attempts to load up. And what about the ability to take chances on guys like Corey Dillon, Randy Moss and other ‘reclamation’ projects that no one else in the league wanted and the Pats rode to championships?
Fun to discuss this with you all...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/nfl/2017/02/22/quarterbacks-drafted-after-tom-brady-2000-nfl-draft
Kind of fun, too, these are the spots where Brady could have landed if the Patriots hadn’t taken him in round 6. I wonder if those teams, coaches and cities would have seen him rise through the ranks, you know? With some, may be...
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The difference here though is This current NE team isn’t even close to having a respectable season at this point. They’re really bad right now if you haven’t seen them play and I honestly don’t even see them finishing close to .500.
I get the point you’re trying to make but I just think the two sports aren’t really comparable here. MJ left and the Bulls still had a top 5 player in a sport where having just one elite player can get your team to the playoffs but didn’t go far once they got there. It’s not the same in the NFL.
Eric
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They’re semi separate topics to me and I was addressing them separately. Someone else brought Phil Jackson into the discussion and I was pointing out that he did a good job while Michael left. In 1993 when they won it all, they went 57-25.
But in a effort to tie both points better together, anyway: when you lose your best player abruptly in any sport and you don’t see a huge drop off in team performance I think some of that can be rightly attributed to good coaching.
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I’m not gonna start ripping on Belichick but from a Pats fan standpoint,we’ve already seen a huge drop off in offensive performance especially at the QB position. Cam sucks and BB is likely to stick with him starting going forward. Bill should just blow this team up and start acquiring more draft picks.
Eric
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they didn't lose the best player he was sent away. All they had to do was pay him 30 million. If they kept garrapalo they would have had to pay him at least 20 right?
Bill thinks its all him and he can just plug in the next minimum wage guy so he set this up to prove he was right and he isnt right
Also, is it that bad to have a down year the year Trevor Lawrence comes out? I mean, most of the other teams with a high pick took their ‘QB of the future’ within the last 3 years. So, with a ‘down year’ and a top ten pick, they might be the only team looking for a QB that high aside from maybe Jacksonville.
Just pointing that out. 😉
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I can name 4-5 teams that need a franchise QB.
Atlanta
Indianapolis
Jacksonville
New England
Chicago
Bubble trades
Jets
Broncos
If you’re the Jets, you are taking Trevor Lawrence or trading the 1st pick for 2 #1’s and 2 #2’s.
Or you’re trading Darnold ( good for him) for a #1 a #2 and 2 #3’s.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
darnold isn't worth all those picks he has been ruined by being a jet.
the patriots don't draft talented players in any round except by mistake . Bill thinks they are all the same interchangeable . He said no to metcalf he thinks nyquil harry is the same exact player.
Although he will waste 1st round picks on running backs which dont even matter any more. See the Giants picking barkley , waste of a pick
But no wise old bill says up is down right? We have no talent now at any talent position , everyone on our team could be working at burger king tomorrow .
No top receiver no tight end no QB no pass rush and a top corner on his way out of town in exchange for a future wasted pick
I think that this boat will be well on its way to being turned around within one year.
Man, you make it sound so bleak...
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
You know it and I know it but honestly those teams may not and I’m not really joking. Matt Ryan is beloved, the Jaguars like Minshew and need more than just a QB and Chicago has Trubusty and Foles, etc.
There’s also plenty more season left to play so things could change quite a bit in the standings and the league but I’m only saying that IF the Pats have a down year and end up in the top 5 in the draft it could potentially be a good year for it to happen.
Also, there’s a distinct possibility that Tom may have looked around and said I still want to win and this team sucks so I’m out of here for cash and a chance at a Super Bowl. Who knows what goes on behind closed doors. Agents and front office folks lie for a living.
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all Tom wanted was job security and people to throw to. Pay him 30 million for 3 years after the jimmy G trade and none of this happens
he still has plenty of ability as we can see. but somehow bill couldn't see 3 years ago that he still had it? Bullshit , this is the coaches ego that caused this
Extend Brady to age 45 and none of this happens . If he turned bad like peyton he would have retired anyway.
The patriots are 31st in payroll ,that is ridiculous!
The Giants current GM said he wanted to build around Eli (lie, pulled rug out), wouldn’t sign Odell to turn around and trade him (lie, signed him then traded him) and my personal favorite has to be from his first day on the job that he believes you win with hog mollies* but then uses his first TWO first round picks as GM on a running back and then a quarterback. That lie was unforgivable as it has set my team back another 5 years with what looks like a whiff on LT Andrew Thomas this year. He could
maybe move to the right side and play well but right now he’s getting manhandled as a rookie. Manhandled. A top 5 pick should step in and play and be dominant by year 2 or 3. We’re already talking moving him off left tackle.
They lie.
*big skilled offensive linemen
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With all of this talk about teams not needing a QB because they already drafted “their guy” then just look at the Cardinals in the 2018/2019 drafts; in 2018 they trade a 1st,3rd & 5th to Oakland to move from the 15th pick to the 10th pick then draft QB Josh Rosen, then a year later in the 2019 they draft Kyler Murray with the 1st overall pick in the draft and Rosen gets traded to Miami. If teams think Trevor Lawrence is a legit franchise QB and better than their current QB then we could definitely see that scenario play out again. I’m not familiar with college football but it could possibly even be a different QB than Lawrence.
Eric
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They really missed hard on Rosen, he is absolutely horrendous. I give the Cards credit for moving on like they did, as good as Lamar Jackson is I think Allen overall will end up being the best pick out of that draft
There are just a handful of teams that wouldn’t build around Trevor Lawrence with the success Joe Burrows is having and Trevor Lawrence was rated above him. Hell Burrows couldn’t start until his last year and he had 17 NFL players around him. Lawrence is a once in a decade talent.
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Unless you have an elite QB that’s around 30, if you have the first pick it’s Lawrence.
Yeah, the list of teams that would NOT draft Lawrence is really, really short. Like KC and Baltimore and Arizona. Maybe Houston. Everyone else drafts him.
Seattle too
not the patriots they would trade the pick away for an undersized D lineman and a practice squad punter