I still am surprised they decided to screw over their platinum members and turn those submissions into Economy. I am at 6 months since I mailed in a 15 card submission. There was nothing earth shattering in my sub, but I never imagined 6-8 months for the turnaround time. I don't have any plans to renew my membership since I am better off sending my cards to a bulk submitter (pcsportscards, blowout fantastic store, etc.).
As for the strictness of grading, that is all in the eye of the beholder. Everyone has gotten G.O.D. subs and occasionally more lenient graders. I do think several years ago PSA tightened up their standards and have been using those tighter standards ever since. Also, star cards and high dollar cards always get extra scrutiny when collectors sub them.
@envoy982 said:
Walk through improved by 3 days, regular was 8 days and value ultra modern was 6 days. Economy is still sitting at 8/16/20 for the 5th day in a row. I have a regular sub arrived 2/24 still not entered. I'm really not sure what to think about that.
Still have an economy order in grading that arrived 8/7 and entered 9/4, this is getting ridiculous. What happens if value-ultra modern passes economy, PSA should reduce the grading fees to the bulk level if that happens.
I have three economy subs that arrived in early August and two were entered on 9/4 and one on 9/18. I feel your pain.
@blurryface - I can update the chart. Interesting though, your screen is different than mine. Maybe I picked something else ahead of it that changed it though.
@soxaddict said:
21896526 10249512 06/23/20 08/17/20 N/A See Details 50 Value 2 - Modern
21893567 10249403 06/22/20 08/14/20 N/A See Details 30 Monthly Special 12
Moved to assembly today!
The Value 2 - Modern 50 card order moved to QA CHECK 1 this morning.
Completed-Through-Date: It could mean the last 4 of 2,000 orders entered were just completed, or the last 750 of 2,000 orders? Who could know. Fingers crossed for continued improvement and optimism!
regular never was 120, 62 or even 58 days behind.
regs were getting punched out around 35 calendar days on the reg.
and express certainly was never 53/ 52 days behind.
they were getting knocked out around 25 calendar days on the reg.
if this is a "the worst case scenario", i don't see the point. simply because psa never used a FIFO sub system. and if that's the case, it's still all a crap shoot still.
@blurryface said:
still not comprehending this chart.
PSA is "reporting" that as of today, they have completed all Regular orders "entered" thru January 15. If your sub was part of this entered group, and by "completed" they mean shipped out the door, then you are going to receive your sub back having taken +62 days -- not forgetting some number of arrival days it may have sat before being entered.
Are they likely completing some orders in advance of that date??? Ummmm, I guess?
Also guessing we're suppose to take the fact that the orders entered 62 days ago, that were just completed, as worst case scenario. Admittedly, it's very little to go on -- but all we're being given.
The first day PSA posted CTDs regular was at somewhere around mid November so that is where he is coming up with the -120 day figure. To answer @OneDaysRide, yes some orders are being completed way ahead of the CTD. I had a regular sub that I submitted it mid January that I got back at the end of February and that is why blurry is saying regular was running at about 35 calendar days.
Also I see on the post with the screen shot, the last submission type being quarterly special for “swinging sixties”. So glad this quarter is almost over. I hope the next quarterly special is WAY better than that! I vote for “knocking nineties” (lots of power hitters in that decade). I have hundreds of non rookie hall of famers, from the 90s, I would love to get graded.
@parthur1607 said: @OneDaysRide, yes some orders are being completed way ahead of the CTD. I had a regular sub that I submitted it mid January that I got back at the end of February and that is why blurry is saying regular was running at about 35 calendar days.
That certainly is good news. Wondering if the same could be true for the Value sub categories? Hoping that 230-250 days are a small worst case rather than the rule.
@parthur1607 said: @OneDaysRide, yes some orders are being completed way ahead of the CTD. I had a regular sub that I submitted it mid January that I got back at the end of February and that is why blurry is saying regular was running at about 35 calendar days.
That certainly is good news. Wondering if the same could be true for the Value sub categories? Hoping that 230-250 days are a small worst case rather than the rule.
i'm thinking that's the case, one. so please don't think i'm questioning you at all. my issue is if they are doing "worst case scenario" knowing they've never stuck with "first in, first out", then it's all still just a relative crapshoot, imo.
with that being said, it would seem like these published dates are almost scare tactics. while certainly true, it's not in its entirety.
I offer these grades that popped yesterday as a cautionary tale to anyone thinking of playing the crack and resub game...
1 1 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1955 Parkhurst 37 Rocket Richard Card
2 1 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1951 Parkhurst 4 Maurice Richard Card
3 1 N5: ALTERED STOCK 1979 Topps 18 Wayne Gretzky Card
The 1955 parkhurst card was a PSA 7. The 1951 Parkhurst Rocket card was a PSA 6. The 1979 Topps Gretzky card was a PSA 7.
I use a 10x loupe, blacklight, and have 30 years of experience with vintage hockey cards. I felt, at the worst, these cards could have come back at the same grade, but most likely in my past experience they had a good shot of higher grades. I have submitted regularly to PSA since 2007. I have extensive experience with each of these issues and know the way they look under magnification. Most significantly, each of the three were in PSA holders so that should be an indicator that they aren't altered, right?
The crack and resub game has been a standard for many that use PSA because some cards in an order predictably would come back with a lower grade than expected. Perhaps it was a revenue generator, akin to the adoption of half grades in 2008, but no matter the speculation on why this phenomenon happened, it has been a normalized part of the PSA relationship with submitters. Those days appear to be over. The likelihood of psa giving numbered grades to any currently psa holdered high value cards or vintage cards if you crack and resubmit them is not high, let alone maintaining the same grade as before. I thought I was knowledgeable and took a risk. I thought wrong.
Also, it seems that review submissions for grade bumps are being treated much more harshly than before. I've gone 1/45 in the last year on reviews after a decade of 15% success rate on reviews. The PSA incentive to generate revenue from review submissions is also over, so don't expect any of your cards to bump in a review, no matter how nice they are.
What on earth is happening at PSA? Are the new graders scared of vintage and high dollar cards? I have 600 cards in the grading queue and if they are graded by the same people that looked at these cards, then its game over for me.
@Frozencaribou said:
I offer these grades that popped yesterday as a cautionary tale to anyone thinking of playing the crack and resub game...
>
That's ridiculous. I have cracked and resubbed many times and have experienced iimited success doing so just like you...but there at least was a chance (especially when the supposed half-grades came out). This is truly eye-opening and I haven't the slightest idea what is going on with PSA's seemingly harsher new approach to grading. I received an "altered stock" grade recently too and for the life of me can't find what they are talking about. Sorry for your misfortune here.
@Frozencaribou said:
I offer these grades that popped yesterday as a cautionary tale to anyone thinking of playing the crack and resub game...
1 1 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1955 Parkhurst 37 Rocket Richard Card
2 1 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1951 Parkhurst 4 Maurice Richard Card
3 1 N5: ALTERED STOCK 1979 Topps 18 Wayne Gretzky Card
The 1955 parkhurst card was a PSA 7. The 1951 Parkhurst Rocket card was a PSA 6. The 1979 Topps Gretzky card was a PSA 7.
I use a 10x loupe, blacklight, and have 30 years of experience with vintage hockey cards. I felt, at the worst, these cards could have come back at the same grade, but most likely in my past experience they had a good shot of higher grades. I have submitted regularly to PSA since 2007. I have extensive experience with each of these issues and know the way they look under magnification. Most significantly, each of the three were in PSA holders so that should be an indicator that they aren't altered, right?
The crack and resub game has been a standard for many that use PSA because some cards in an order predictably would come back with a lower grade than expected. Perhaps it was a revenue generator, akin to the adoption of half grades in 2008, but no matter the speculation on why this phenomenon happened, it has been a normalized part of the PSA relationship with submitters. Those days appear to be over. The likelihood of psa giving numbered grades to any currently psa holdered high value cards or vintage cards if you crack and resubmit them is not high, let alone maintaining the same grade as before. I thought I was knowledgeable and took a risk. I thought wrong.
Also, it seems that review submissions for grade bumps are being treated much more harshly than before. I've gone 1/45 in the last year on reviews after a decade of 15% success rate on reviews. The PSA incentive to generate revenue from review submissions is also over, so don't expect any of your cards to bump in a review, no matter how nice they are.
What on earth is happening at PSA? Are the new graders scared of vintage and high dollar cards? I have 600 cards in the grading queue and if they are graded by the same people that looked at these cards, then its game over for me.
Very disheartening. Did you take pictures of the cards before cracking them ? I wonder if you could send some emails for review.
I cannot hit curveball. Straightball I hit it very much. Curveball, bats are afraid. Collecting: post world war II HOF rookie 76 topps gem mint 10 commons 9 stars Arenado purple refractors(Rockies) Red (Cardinals) successful deals with Keevan, Grote15, 1954, mbogoman
As of yesterday I have 8 subs in Stage 4. One of which is an Economy that is only 7 cards that has been in that stage since late September of 2020. My oldest two are a value modern and an 80s special logged 8/13 (delivered 6/19). There is a greater than zero chance it is going to be a full calendar year before I get them back.
Here are my issues.
1. The 7 card economy from September is flat unacceptable. No need to rant further it is what it is
2. Up charges galore could occur on many of these cards. I do not really mind it, but who knew where these cards would be a year ago. Upcharges seem petty for a company making money hand over fist. Not sure it will happen but I am not a dealer but a collector. Sure I sell and while I budget grading costs and have money set aside for it, I do not like the idea of once my thousands of dollars of grading fees come due that extra cash will need to be added for it. Also the sustainability of some of these current prices can be also called into question. Also to note PSA has been more than fair in upcharges or the lack there of in the past. I am just dealing with a huge stack of unknown now.
3. Last is everyone’s fear what do you do if you run into the grader than did blurryface’s disaster sub. All that time and effort wasted. I do this a lot I used to crack and resubmit all the time with a large success rate. There is no real recourse for this anymore.
Just a couple of things I wanted to vent about to get opinions.
@rexvos said:
As of yesterday I have 8 subs in Stage 4. One of which is an Economy that is only 7 cards that has been in that stage since late September of 2020. My oldest two are a value modern and an 80s special logged 8/13 (delivered 6/19). There is a greater than zero chance it is going to be a full calendar year before I get them back.
Here are my issues.
1. The 7 card economy from September is flat unacceptable. No need to rant further it is what it is
2. Up charges galore could occur on many of these cards. I do not really mind it, but who knew where these cards would be a year ago. Upcharges seem petty for a company making money hand over fist. Not sure it will happen but I am not a dealer but a collector. Sure I sell and while I budget grading costs and have money set aside for it, I do not like the idea of once my thousands of dollars of grading fees come due that extra cash will need to be added for it. Also the sustainability of some of these current prices can be also called into question. Also to note PSA has been more than fair in upcharges or the lack there of in the past. I am just dealing with a huge stack of unknown now.
3. Last is everyone’s fear what do you do if you run into the grader than did blurryface’s disaster sub. All that time and effort wasted. I do this a lot I used to crack and resubmit all the time with a large success rate. There is no real recourse for this anymore.
Just a couple of things I wanted to vent about to get opinions.
I feel your pain as I am in a highly similar boat. I am waiting on five economy subs (four entered in early to mid September). The deal with the current prices is damaging to those of us who are primarily collectors. In some cases (actually, many cases), a PSA 9 of a card I'd like to grade is really cost-prohibitive. And, with PSA 10s being increasingly difficult to attain, it really isn't even worth taking a "flyer" on many cards (I collect primarily vintage 70s). The "unknown" is really difficult to manage, I agree wholeheartedly. Finally, if blurryface is getting dinged by graders, something has definitely gone awry IMO. He knows his stuff. This all being said, I hope your wait is worth it (mine too). Changing the game midstream (i.e., seemingly harsher grading standards) is not cool.
I am fulling expecting to get hammered again whenever my grades pop. My last order looked like someone went behind the grader and subtracted a point from everything. At this point I am looking at other options.
Easy solution post the grader(s) name on each sub. Review them and if you are extra hard or extra lenient consistently then you are let go or re-assigned to order entry. Grading should be consistent. A 10 is a 10 no matter if it is Mickey Mantle or Mickey Mouse. This PSA grades the 93 Sp Jeter, 86 Topps Rice or whatever high profile card harder should be complete garbage. There should be no such thing as pop control. If that many high grade cards exist then so be it. Transparency in grading would be most welcome after past scandals and what is widely viewed now as a new standard. I know what I am saying is not going to happen, like Mel Brooks said, “It is good to be the king”. It is just another fact about the world we live in. Things are rarely fair and equitable. I expect everything to continue along the path we are going until we see a major market correction. /end rant
@burghman said:
For pack submitters, my 4 packs that entered Assembly on 3/6 just bounced into QA1 today. Almost there...
QA2 today for my 4 packs. Hoping the same card graders the recent posters have gotten aren't anywhere near my packs. Sorry to hear about your experiences.
@rexvos said:
Easy solution post the grader(s) name on each sub. Review them and if you are extra hard or extra lenient consistently then you are let go or re-assigned to order entry. Grading should be consistent. A 10 is a 10 no matter if it is Mickey Mantle or Mickey Mouse. This PSA grades the 93 Sp Jeter, 86 Topps Rice or whatever high profile card harder should be complete garbage. There should be no such thing as pop control. If that many high grade cards exist then so be it. Transparency in grading would be most welcome after past scandals and what is widely viewed now as a new standard. I know what I am saying is not going to happen, like Mel Brooks said, “It is good to be the king”. It is just another fact about the world we live in. Things are rarely fair and equitable. I expect everything to continue along the path we are going until we see a major market correction. /end rant
I have always thought there should be an explanation of why a card received a certain grade. Sure it would take more time but we deserve to know. Especially with these new prices.
I have always thought there should be an explanation of why a card received a certain grade. Sure it would take more time but we deserve to know. Especially with these new prices.
I think they used to do that, wayyyy back in the day.
For about a decade, all review order cards that didn't bump came back with sticky arrows on the holder and a word like "edges" or "corner". It helped me understand just what cards to submit within grades to review.
They wanted fewer submissions, I complied. Nothing sent in this year so far and likely won't be from me until/unless things change. 6 of 13 on hold are 150+ cards, only a couple less than 50 cards. Between harsher grading and turnaround, not sure if I'll submit again (or even keep collecting TBQH).
@Frozencaribou said:
I offer these grades that popped yesterday as a cautionary tale to anyone thinking of playing the crack and resub game...
1 1 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1955 Parkhurst 37 Rocket Richard Card
2 1 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1951 Parkhurst 4 Maurice Richard Card
3 1 N5: ALTERED STOCK 1979 Topps 18 Wayne Gretzky Card
The 1955 parkhurst card was a PSA 7. The 1951 Parkhurst Rocket card was a PSA 6. The 1979 Topps Gretzky card was a PSA 7.
I use a 10x loupe, blacklight, and have 30 years of experience with vintage hockey cards. I felt, at the worst, these cards could have come back at the same grade, but most likely in my past experience they had a good shot of higher grades. I have submitted regularly to PSA since 2007. I have extensive experience with each of these issues and know the way they look under magnification. Most significantly, each of the three were in PSA holders so that should be an indicator that they aren't altered, right?
The crack and resub game has been a standard for many that use PSA because some cards in an order predictably would come back with a lower grade than expected. Perhaps it was a revenue generator, akin to the adoption of half grades in 2008, but no matter the speculation on why this phenomenon happened, it has been a normalized part of the PSA relationship with submitters. Those days appear to be over. The likelihood of psa giving numbered grades to any currently psa holdered high value cards or vintage cards if you crack and resubmit them is not high, let alone maintaining the same grade as before. I thought I was knowledgeable and took a risk. I thought wrong.
Also, it seems that review submissions for grade bumps are being treated much more harshly than before. I've gone 1/45 in the last year on reviews after a decade of 15% success rate on reviews. The PSA incentive to generate revenue from review submissions is also over, so don't expect any of your cards to bump in a review, no matter how nice they are.
What on earth is happening at PSA? Are the new graders scared of vintage and high dollar cards? I have 600 cards in the grading queue and if they are graded by the same people that looked at these cards, then its game over for me.
I'm confused. Haven't there been dozens of threads the past couple of years about a REALLY GOOD card doctor doing his thing to certain vintage cards. He was so good that he was able to slip those cards past PSA, and then he sold the cards on eBay through a certain consignee. Many of the threads have alleged that the consignee was complicit in the fraud and the FBI was invoked.
My point, and I do have one, is that if these alterations were good enough to fool PSA, it should be not at all surprising that they could fool you. It stands to reason that PSA was both motivated to look harder to detect these and more aware of the "tells".
If they keep piling on (Raise Prices, Turnaround times) it is fast becoming the wrong time for me. Most of my Business is done in $20-$50 Graded Cards. At $20 a Card, that has stopped ASAP.
I have 9 orders at PSA. Yesterday they pick a 20 Card Vintage Value from 1/16/2021 to move from Arrive to Logged then R & I. On the same Shelf sits my order from 8/13/2020 a 20 Card Value Vintage Sub, and it just sits and sits in R & I!
My first year back subscription renew will not be necessary this year!
Thanks Belz. Shows that the CTD is the ultimate worst case scenario invoice with something out of the ordinary taking it out of assembly line. Hope you got a friendly grader...
"...life is but a dream."
Used to working on HOF SS Baseballs--Now just '67 Sox Stickers and anything Boston related.
For anyone that was monitoring the Newport Beach USPS backlog in handing over to PSA, that seems to be a thing of the past. I sent a ticket sub in this week - PSA emailed me to let me know they had my package the day after the USPS in Newport Beach got it, so can't ask for much better response than that. Unfortunately for me, my 3 subs at PSA right now aren't on the daily tracker - 2 pack subs and this ticket sub - so I'm mostly in the dark except for the info provided by fellow submitters in threads like this.
I'm confused. Haven't there been dozens of threads the past couple of years about a REALLY GOOD card doctor doing his thing to certain vintage cards. He was so good that he was able to slip those cards past PSA, and then he sold the cards on eBay through a certain consignee. Many of the threads have alleged that the consignee was complicit in the fraud and the FBI was invoked.
My point, and I do have one, is that if these alterations were good enough to fool PSA, it should be not at all surprising that they could fool you. It stands to reason that PSA was both motivated to look harder to detect these and more aware of the "tells".
I don't know if this is really the case. It is just massive inconsistency. I had 3 orders pop of similar cards distributed in all 3 and the grades vary from expected with published standards to 3 grades from 1 order to the other. Included as well were a bunch of crack outs that had sharp psa 6s and 7's become psa 4s and 5s. very nice sgc 8's become psa 5-6's . and I too have been doing this for a solid 15 years. of the extremely large amount of crackouts that I have done ( both psa and sgc and even gai) , I am probably 50% the same grade, 45% higher 4% lower and 1% lower. my recent experience is 25% the same grade and 75% lower with a bunch of altered's mixed in.
It is truly a dangerous game these days and more so with the turnaround times and now the new grading fees. before you just sent it back and paid another 7 or 8 bucks and would most likely be happy in a few months. not so painless anymore
The only service level to move as of this morning was Value-Vintage which moved from 7/28 to 8/3. Everything else is exactly as it was yesterday unfortunately. I am still waiting for my 2/24 regular sub to be entered. @ejguru - I concur, it does appear to be worst case scenario and it is "the day before the last date" so technically these are all 1 day farther than it shows. Of course if it doesn't move at all, it doesn't mean much.
@ejguru said:
Thanks Belz. Shows that the CTD is the ultimate worst case scenario invoice with something out of the ordinary taking it out of assembly line. Hope you got a friendly grader...
My grades were pretty much as expected...been doing this for a long time and always get some surprises to the pro and con side but nothing like I’ve read about. I have 15 more subs of all levels through various months so I’ll share as subs pop. I still have more than 5k cards on vacation .
The good news is for a 10 dollar sub where a card came back valued at over $1k, I was still only charged the 10 dollars per..I know someone was concerned about price changes and I can confirm it wasn’t the case for me.
I hope to get my mid September 15 free card sub back soon as well as other in September...grading phase for awhile.
eta: and this isn't the only express/regulars i have in. i just don't wanna get depressed or waste anymore time looking at them all.
i'm having a real hard time trying to comprehend how the only sub levels when it came to a consistent timeframe has been run into the ground like this, especially when none of the lower levels seem to be getting any better as a result.
OUCH! Looking back, express has moved just 6 days in the last 11 and hasn't moved at all since 3/16. It was moving 1 day, then it would be stagnant for 2-3 days. Walk through hasn't moved in 3 days and super express hasn't moved in 4 either. I was excited to see economy move 15 days after not moving for 5 days. yesterday appears to have been a heavy-meeting day or something cuz nothing moved besides value-vintage.
OUCH! Looking back, express has moved just 6 days in the last 11 and hasn't moved at all since 3/16. It was moving 1 day, then it would be stagnant for 2-3 days. Walk through hasn't moved in 3 days and super express hasn't moved in 4 either. I was excited to see economy move 15 days after not moving for 5 days. yesterday appears to have been a heavy-meeting day or something cuz nothing moved besides value-vintage.
yep. i know. shoulda been back in hand right now. certainly the reason i subbed and agreed to pay for that level of service.
Does anyone know if the autograph authentication (PSA/DNA) services are as far behind as the card grading? I have some 8x10's and other pieces that have various other authentication that I'd like to get certified but I don't want to wait a year, or at least be prepared if that is the norm. Does anybody know?
PSA/DNA is typically much quicker than cards. The most recent group sub - just autograph authentication/encapsulation, no card grading - for 1900 items was sent 1/23/2021, logged 2/6, and the first of the 18 subs that it was broken into popped on 3/8. Since then, another 3-4 subs have popped so they're moving much quicker than the bulk and lower cost card timeframes.
@envoy982 said:
Does anyone know if the autograph authentication (PSA/DNA) services are as far behind as the card grading? I have some 8x10's and other pieces that have various other authentication that I'd like to get certified but I don't want to wait a year, or at least be prepared if that is the norm. Does anybody know?
I had 3 baseballs I sent in for the active player dna special. Arrived 2/25 Entered 3/3 Shipped 3/8. In my experience over the past year with sending to psa/dna, they are running a very different ship. Not sure if that part of the company is run by a different leader, or there aren't nearly as many autographs being sent in, or what. I'm sure there aren't as many auto's being subbed, but still, it has noticeably different turn around times.
Ok, you talked me into it. My 4 pack sub of 1979 Topps baseball cello packs resulted in three 9s and an 8. No big stars on any of them, but LaCock was on the back of one. Should arrive back to me tomorrow where I’ll get the big reveal of which one got the 8. Can’t complain!
progress grinding to a halt lately...Value Modern hasn't moved in a week, Express and Ultra Mod in 5-6 days, Regular 1 in last 5 days....yes we know it's not that nothing is going out, but when half the categories freeze up on clearing the last subs from those days, it does not bode well for expectations of seeing our cards sometime before the New Year (hopefully Western and not Lunar...)
@weaselpuppy said:
progress grinding to a halt lately...Value Modern hasn't moved in a week, Express and Ultra Mod in 5-6 days, Regular 1 in last 5 days....yes we know it's not that nothing is going out, but when half the categories freeze up on clearing the last subs from those days, it does not bode well for expectations of seeing our cards sometime before the New Year (hopefully Western and not Lunar...)
first time in quite a while that i haven't had anything pop in over a week. was having almost 1 per day up until.....1/14/21.
very few reporting any sub poppage here either. it's concerning.
Comments
I still am surprised they decided to screw over their platinum members and turn those submissions into Economy. I am at 6 months since I mailed in a 15 card submission. There was nothing earth shattering in my sub, but I never imagined 6-8 months for the turnaround time. I don't have any plans to renew my membership since I am better off sending my cards to a bulk submitter (pcsportscards, blowout fantastic store, etc.).
As for the strictness of grading, that is all in the eye of the beholder. Everyone has gotten G.O.D. subs and occasionally more lenient graders. I do think several years ago PSA tightened up their standards and have been using those tighter standards ever since. Also, star cards and high dollar cards always get extra scrutiny when collectors sub them.
Robb
how's the chart gonna change now that new levels are created?
think it's:
prime
premier
super premier
etc.
eta: pic added
I have three economy subs that arrived in early August and two were entered on 9/4 and one on 9/18. I feel your pain.
@blurryface - I can update the chart. Interesting though, your screen is different than mine. Maybe I picked something else ahead of it that changed it though.
that is wierd.
The Value 2 - Modern 50 card order moved to QA CHECK 1 this morning.
For pack submitters, my 4 packs that entered Assembly on 3/6 just bounced into QA1 today. Almost there...
Jim
CTD update:
Completed-Through-Date: It could mean the last 4 of 2,000 orders entered were just completed, or the last 750 of 2,000 orders? Who could know. Fingers crossed for continued improvement and optimism!
still not comprehending this chart.
regular never was 120, 62 or even 58 days behind.
regs were getting punched out around 35 calendar days on the reg.
and express certainly was never 53/ 52 days behind.
they were getting knocked out around 25 calendar days on the reg.
if this is a "the worst case scenario", i don't see the point. simply because psa never used a FIFO sub system. and if that's the case, it's still all a crap shoot still.
PSA is "reporting" that as of today, they have completed all Regular orders "entered" thru January 15. If your sub was part of this entered group, and by "completed" they mean shipped out the door, then you are going to receive your sub back having taken +62 days -- not forgetting some number of arrival days it may have sat before being entered.
Are they likely completing some orders in advance of that date??? Ummmm, I guess?
Also guessing we're suppose to take the fact that the orders entered 62 days ago, that were just completed, as worst case scenario. Admittedly, it's very little to go on -- but all we're being given.
The first day PSA posted CTDs regular was at somewhere around mid November so that is where he is coming up with the -120 day figure. To answer @OneDaysRide, yes some orders are being completed way ahead of the CTD. I had a regular sub that I submitted it mid January that I got back at the end of February and that is why blurry is saying regular was running at about 35 calendar days.
Also I see on the post with the screen shot, the last submission type being quarterly special for “swinging sixties”. So glad this quarter is almost over. I hope the next quarterly special is WAY better than that! I vote for “knocking nineties” (lots of power hitters in that decade). I have hundreds of non rookie hall of famers, from the 90s, I would love to get graded.
That certainly is good news. Wondering if the same could be true for the Value sub categories? Hoping that 230-250 days are a small worst case rather than the rule.
i'm thinking that's the case, one. so please don't think i'm questioning you at all. my issue is if they are doing "worst case scenario" knowing they've never stuck with "first in, first out", then it's all still just a relative crapshoot, imo.
with that being said, it would seem like these published dates are almost scare tactics. while certainly true, it's not in its entirety.
I offer these grades that popped yesterday as a cautionary tale to anyone thinking of playing the crack and resub game...
1 1 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1955 Parkhurst 37 Rocket Richard Card
2 1 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1951 Parkhurst 4 Maurice Richard Card
3 1 N5: ALTERED STOCK 1979 Topps 18 Wayne Gretzky Card
The 1955 parkhurst card was a PSA 7. The 1951 Parkhurst Rocket card was a PSA 6. The 1979 Topps Gretzky card was a PSA 7.
I use a 10x loupe, blacklight, and have 30 years of experience with vintage hockey cards. I felt, at the worst, these cards could have come back at the same grade, but most likely in my past experience they had a good shot of higher grades. I have submitted regularly to PSA since 2007. I have extensive experience with each of these issues and know the way they look under magnification. Most significantly, each of the three were in PSA holders so that should be an indicator that they aren't altered, right?
The crack and resub game has been a standard for many that use PSA because some cards in an order predictably would come back with a lower grade than expected. Perhaps it was a revenue generator, akin to the adoption of half grades in 2008, but no matter the speculation on why this phenomenon happened, it has been a normalized part of the PSA relationship with submitters. Those days appear to be over. The likelihood of psa giving numbered grades to any currently psa holdered high value cards or vintage cards if you crack and resubmit them is not high, let alone maintaining the same grade as before. I thought I was knowledgeable and took a risk. I thought wrong.
Also, it seems that review submissions for grade bumps are being treated much more harshly than before. I've gone 1/45 in the last year on reviews after a decade of 15% success rate on reviews. The PSA incentive to generate revenue from review submissions is also over, so don't expect any of your cards to bump in a review, no matter how nice they are.
What on earth is happening at PSA? Are the new graders scared of vintage and high dollar cards? I have 600 cards in the grading queue and if they are graded by the same people that looked at these cards, then its game over for me.
Are the new graders scared of vintage and high dollar cards
yes, but I don't think it is just new graders
>
That's ridiculous. I have cracked and resubbed many times and have experienced iimited success doing so just like you...but there at least was a chance (especially when the supposed half-grades came out). This is truly eye-opening and I haven't the slightest idea what is going on with PSA's seemingly harsher new approach to grading. I received an "altered stock" grade recently too and for the life of me can't find what they are talking about. Sorry for your misfortune here.
Very disheartening. Did you take pictures of the cards before cracking them ? I wonder if you could send some emails for review.
Collecting:
post world war II HOF rookie
76 topps gem mint 10 commons 9 stars
Arenado purple refractors(Rockies) Red (Cardinals)
successful deals with Keevan, Grote15, 1954, mbogoman
As of yesterday I have 8 subs in Stage 4. One of which is an Economy that is only 7 cards that has been in that stage since late September of 2020. My oldest two are a value modern and an 80s special logged 8/13 (delivered 6/19). There is a greater than zero chance it is going to be a full calendar year before I get them back.
Here are my issues.
1. The 7 card economy from September is flat unacceptable. No need to rant further it is what it is
2. Up charges galore could occur on many of these cards. I do not really mind it, but who knew where these cards would be a year ago. Upcharges seem petty for a company making money hand over fist. Not sure it will happen but I am not a dealer but a collector. Sure I sell and while I budget grading costs and have money set aside for it, I do not like the idea of once my thousands of dollars of grading fees come due that extra cash will need to be added for it. Also the sustainability of some of these current prices can be also called into question. Also to note PSA has been more than fair in upcharges or the lack there of in the past. I am just dealing with a huge stack of unknown now.
3. Last is everyone’s fear what do you do if you run into the grader than did blurryface’s disaster sub. All that time and effort wasted. I do this a lot I used to crack and resubmit all the time with a large success rate. There is no real recourse for this anymore.
Just a couple of things I wanted to vent about to get opinions.
I will scan and post pictures once the cards get back to me from PSA, just for illustration purposes...
-Nathanael
I feel your pain as I am in a highly similar boat. I am waiting on five economy subs (four entered in early to mid September). The deal with the current prices is damaging to those of us who are primarily collectors. In some cases (actually, many cases), a PSA 9 of a card I'd like to grade is really cost-prohibitive. And, with PSA 10s being increasingly difficult to attain, it really isn't even worth taking a "flyer" on many cards (I collect primarily vintage 70s). The "unknown" is really difficult to manage, I agree wholeheartedly. Finally, if blurryface is getting dinged by graders, something has definitely gone awry IMO. He knows his stuff. This all being said, I hope your wait is worth it (mine too). Changing the game midstream (i.e., seemingly harsher grading standards) is not cool.
I am fulling expecting to get hammered again whenever my grades pop. My last order looked like someone went behind the grader and subtracted a point from everything. At this point I am looking at other options.
condolences, frozen.
i feel your pain. got hammered on a single item today that im still trying to comprehend.
Easy solution post the grader(s) name on each sub. Review them and if you are extra hard or extra lenient consistently then you are let go or re-assigned to order entry. Grading should be consistent. A 10 is a 10 no matter if it is Mickey Mantle or Mickey Mouse. This PSA grades the 93 Sp Jeter, 86 Topps Rice or whatever high profile card harder should be complete garbage. There should be no such thing as pop control. If that many high grade cards exist then so be it. Transparency in grading would be most welcome after past scandals and what is widely viewed now as a new standard. I know what I am saying is not going to happen, like Mel Brooks said, “It is good to be the king”. It is just another fact about the world we live in. Things are rarely fair and equitable. I expect everything to continue along the path we are going until we see a major market correction. /end rant
QA2 today for my 4 packs. Hoping the same card graders the recent posters have gotten aren't anywhere near my packs. Sorry to hear about your experiences.
Jim
I have always thought there should be an explanation of why a card received a certain grade. Sure it would take more time but we deserve to know. Especially with these new prices.
I think they used to do that, wayyyy back in the day.
For about a decade, all review order cards that didn't bump came back with sticky arrows on the holder and a word like "edges" or "corner". It helped me understand just what cards to submit within grades to review.
-Nathanael
They wanted fewer submissions, I complied. Nothing sent in this year so far and likely won't be from me until/unless things change. 6 of 13 on hold are 150+ cards, only a couple less than 50 cards. Between harsher grading and turnaround, not sure if I'll submit again (or even keep collecting TBQH).
I'm confused. Haven't there been dozens of threads the past couple of years about a REALLY GOOD card doctor doing his thing to certain vintage cards. He was so good that he was able to slip those cards past PSA, and then he sold the cards on eBay through a certain consignee. Many of the threads have alleged that the consignee was complicit in the fraud and the FBI was invoked.
My point, and I do have one, is that if these alterations were good enough to fool PSA, it should be not at all surprising that they could fool you. It stands to reason that PSA was both motivated to look harder to detect these and more aware of the "tells".
Morning,
If they keep piling on (Raise Prices, Turnaround times) it is fast becoming the wrong time for me. Most of my Business is done in $20-$50 Graded Cards. At $20 a Card, that has stopped ASAP.
I have 9 orders at PSA. Yesterday they pick a 20 Card Vintage Value from 1/16/2021 to move from Arrive to Logged then R & I. On the same Shelf sits my order from 8/13/2020 a 20 Card Value Vintage Sub, and it just sits and sits in R & I!
My first year back subscription renew will not be necessary this year!
Just Ridiculous!
No Thanks
YeeHaw!
Neil
I don’t post much anymore but thought I’d share for those keeping track:
Value modern just popped that was entered 8/17..51 cards.
Thanks Belz. Shows that the CTD is the ultimate worst case scenario invoice with something out of the ordinary taking it out of assembly line. Hope you got a friendly grader...
Used to working on HOF SS Baseballs--Now just '67 Sox Stickers and anything Boston related.
My Regular order from 2/1 hit QA2 on Wednesday. I was patient up until that point. Since Wednesday I have been checking every 5 minutes.
For anyone that was monitoring the Newport Beach USPS backlog in handing over to PSA, that seems to be a thing of the past. I sent a ticket sub in this week - PSA emailed me to let me know they had my package the day after the USPS in Newport Beach got it, so can't ask for much better response than that. Unfortunately for me, my 3 subs at PSA right now aren't on the daily tracker - 2 pack subs and this ticket sub - so I'm mostly in the dark except for the info provided by fellow submitters in threads like this.
Jim
21896526 10249512 06/23/20 08/17/20 N/A See Details 50 Value 2 - Modern
21893567 10249403 06/22/20 08/14/20 N/A See Details 30 Monthly Special 12
Both orders have now reached stage 6! The Monthy Special 30 card order has moved to QA CHECK 1 today.
I don't know if this is really the case. It is just massive inconsistency. I had 3 orders pop of similar cards distributed in all 3 and the grades vary from expected with published standards to 3 grades from 1 order to the other. Included as well were a bunch of crack outs that had sharp psa 6s and 7's become psa 4s and 5s. very nice sgc 8's become psa 5-6's . and I too have been doing this for a solid 15 years. of the extremely large amount of crackouts that I have done ( both psa and sgc and even gai) , I am probably 50% the same grade, 45% higher 4% lower and 1% lower. my recent experience is 25% the same grade and 75% lower with a bunch of altered's mixed in.
It is truly a dangerous game these days and more so with the turnaround times and now the new grading fees. before you just sent it back and paid another 7 or 8 bucks and would most likely be happy in a few months. not so painless anymore
The only service level to move as of this morning was Value-Vintage which moved from 7/28 to 8/3. Everything else is exactly as it was yesterday unfortunately. I am still waiting for my 2/24 regular sub to be entered. @ejguru - I concur, it does appear to be worst case scenario and it is "the day before the last date" so technically these are all 1 day farther than it shows. Of course if it doesn't move at all, it doesn't mean much.
My grades were pretty much as expected...been doing this for a long time and always get some surprises to the pro and con side but nothing like I’ve read about. I have 15 more subs of all levels through various months so I’ll share as subs pop. I still have more than 5k cards on vacation
.
The good news is for a 10 dollar sub where a card came back valued at over $1k, I was still only charged the 10 dollars per..I know someone was concerned about price changes and I can confirm it wasn’t the case for me.
I hope to get my mid September 15 free card sub back soon as well as other in September...grading phase for awhile.
3 cards, express level
recd: 2/23/21
logged:
popped:
approaching a month on "express".
eta: and this isn't the only express/regulars i have in. i just don't wanna get depressed or waste anymore time looking at them all.
i'm having a real hard time trying to comprehend how the only sub levels when it came to a consistent timeframe has been run into the ground like this, especially when none of the lower levels seem to be getting any better as a result.
OUCH! Looking back, express has moved just 6 days in the last 11 and hasn't moved at all since 3/16. It was moving 1 day, then it would be stagnant for 2-3 days. Walk through hasn't moved in 3 days and super express hasn't moved in 4 either. I was excited to see economy move 15 days after not moving for 5 days. yesterday appears to have been a heavy-meeting day or something cuz nothing moved besides value-vintage.
yep. i know. shoulda been back in hand right now. certainly the reason i subbed and agreed to pay for that level of service.
Does anyone know if the autograph authentication (PSA/DNA) services are as far behind as the card grading? I have some 8x10's and other pieces that have various other authentication that I'd like to get certified but I don't want to wait a year, or at least be prepared if that is the norm. Does anybody know?
PSA/DNA is typically much quicker than cards. The most recent group sub - just autograph authentication/encapsulation, no card grading - for 1900 items was sent 1/23/2021, logged 2/6, and the first of the 18 subs that it was broken into popped on 3/8. Since then, another 3-4 subs have popped so they're moving much quicker than the bulk and lower cost card timeframes.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1047456/annual-psa-dna-bulk-submission-autograph-encapsulation-only
Jim
woah. woah. woah.
not everybody post their grades all at once!
I had 3 baseballs I sent in for the active player dna special. Arrived 2/25 Entered 3/3 Shipped 3/8. In my experience over the past year with sending to psa/dna, they are running a very different ship. Not sure if that part of the company is run by a different leader, or there aren't nearly as many autographs being sent in, or what. I'm sure there aren't as many auto's being subbed, but still, it has noticeably different turn around times.
Ok, you talked me into it. My 4 pack sub of 1979 Topps baseball cello packs resulted in three 9s and an 8. No big stars on any of them, but LaCock was on the back of one. Should arrive back to me tomorrow where I’ll get the big reveal of which one got the 8. Can’t complain!
Jim
progress grinding to a halt lately...Value Modern hasn't moved in a week, Express and Ultra Mod in 5-6 days, Regular 1 in last 5 days....yes we know it's not that nothing is going out, but when half the categories freeze up on clearing the last subs from those days, it does not bode well for expectations of seeing our cards sometime before the New Year (hopefully Western and not Lunar...)
Yeah, this is a bit ridiculous...
first time in quite a while that i haven't had anything pop in over a week. was having almost 1 per day up until.....1/14/21.
very few reporting any sub poppage here either. it's concerning.
Huzzah! Great hope and optimism abounds. I've finally made it to grading ...