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So if Cam Newton has success this season and Tom Brady doesn't.....

stevekstevek Posts: 24,208 ✭✭✭✭✭

So if Cam Newton has success this season and Tom Brady doesn't.....

....would that prove once and for all that Bill Belichick was the more important factor than Tom Brady in the Patriots Belichick/Brady dynasty?

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Comments

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 7,744 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It would be an indication that Belichick isn't getting enough credit from some.

    It has always been my thinking that the combination of Head Coach, and great Quarterback, along with good ownership, makes for dynasties.

    Obviously the Patriots kept it together for the longest period.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • milbrocomilbroco Posts: 2,502 ✭✭✭

    I always thought that Belichick was a better coach than Brady was a QB.
    Belichick made Brady what he is.

    ebay seller name milbroco
    email [email protected]
  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 3,282 ✭✭✭✭✭

    IMO, the success of Tom and Bill together was an example of two men forming something greater than the whole- with the caveat that both had greatness within them individually. It was a perfect storm. Brady literally willed it to happen, talked it into fruition, as evidenced in his often discussed run-in with Kraft during his rookie season. Tom told him, and I'm paraphrasing, "I'm the best decision you ever made for this team. " Meanwhile, Belichick had spent his life being groomed since youth to have the potential to be the greatest NFL CEO ever. We all know that coaches and quarterbacks are normally caught in a continuously unproductive Bermuda triangle-like quagmire. But this time, Brady and Belichick met in the perfect storm and ended up creating, against perhaps million-to-one odds , a two decade dynasty.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 7,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2020 9:20AM

    Tom Brady is the reason for the Patriots success. There's no way Bill wins six Super Bowls with out Tom Brady. Just look at Bill's time in Cleveland, that went well for such a genius.

    Hello, I'm a Joe Louis card addict.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 7,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Tom Brady for President!!

    Hello, I'm a Joe Louis card addict.

  • JRR300JRR300 Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭✭

    @thisistheshow said:
    IMO, the success of Tom and Bill together was an example of two men forming something greater than the whole- with the caveat that both had greatness within them individually. It was a perfect storm. Brady literally willed it to happen, talked it into fruition, as evidenced in his often discussed run-in with Kraft during his rookie season. Tom told him, and I'm paraphrasing, "I'm the best decision you ever made for this team. " Meanwhile, Belichick had spent his life being groomed since youth to have the potential to be the greatest NFL CEO ever. We all know that coaches and quarterbacks are normally caught in a continuously unproductive Bermuda triangle-like quagmire. But this time, Brady and Belichick met in the perfect storm and ended up creating, against perhaps million-to-one odds , a two decade dynasty.

    Absolutely agree. You see multiple other great QB's not have the longevity and success they had in New England. Also, how they are able to get everyone to buy in on the varied weekly game plans is remarkable. I don't remember seeing any other team that has been able to change the face of their offense from week to week like New England. Like he said above, "the perfect storm"

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 7,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    With Tom Brady as quarterback, a mannequin could have coached the Patriots and won.

    The Patriots coach during the Tom Brady era....

    Hello, I'm a Joe Louis card addict.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cam Newton will not have a better season than Brady. You can take that one to the bank.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    while Bill is a great HC, maybe the best ever, he did not make TB. Bill was always known as a defensive specialist. see his time with the Giants. He is next level organized, a phenomenal game planner, and maybe the best ever at breaking down film. He also runs the tightest ship in the league.

    If anyone made TB, you could look at his OC throughout the years. even then, I really believe TB is a singular talent. Not physically, but mentally. he can take in and analyze information perhaps faster than any other QB in history. His reads are superhuman. Check out his int. numbers. in fact, i would bet that 1/3 of the pics he has thrown in his career were due to a wrong route run by a reciever. He is so prepared and so football intelligent that it makes up for a lack of athleticism (though his arm really is pretty good)

    You can see his talent when you look at how he has been successful under a number of different offences. He is able to both stretch it out and play the underneath game.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 7,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hold me to it. If the Patriots make the playoffs with Cam Newton , I'll change my profile picture for a week to this...

    Hello, I'm a Joe Louis card addict.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I dont think you are in any danger of having to change your picture.

  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 2,978 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No.

    Neither is in their prime any more. Bill smiles and does commercials and tv shows now. Tom didn’t have it last year and age is catching up.

    It’s too late to read into it any more.

    twocents

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  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 3,282 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    while Bill is a great HC, maybe the best ever, he did not make TB. Bill was always known as a defensive specialist. see his time with the Giants. He is next level organized, a phenomenal game planner, and maybe the best ever at breaking down film. He also runs the tightest ship in the league.

    If anyone made TB, you could look at his OC throughout the years. even then, I really believe TB is a singular talent. Not physically, but mentally. he can take in and analyze information perhaps faster than any other QB in history. His reads are superhuman. Check out his int. numbers. in fact, i would bet that 1/3 of the pics he has thrown in his career were due to a wrong route run by a reciever. He is so prepared and so football intelligent that it makes up for a lack of athleticism (though his arm really is pretty good)

    You can see his talent when you look at how he has been successful under a number of different offences. He is able to both stretch it out and play the underneath game.

    These are great points. When I write that there was a perfect storm, I mean it allowed these two guys to come together and operate for two decades. Tom having Bill as coach and Bill having Tom as QB allowed them to create something never seen before.

  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 2,978 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    Cam Newton will not have a better season than Brady. You can take that one to the bank.

    If we can establish some reasonable criteria, I’ll take that bet.

    Let me know.

    Can be something fun.

    Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 7,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    I dont think you are in any danger of having to change your picture.

    Exactly, I feel VERY confident I won't have to change it. 😂😂

    Hello, I'm a Joe Louis card addict.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 7,744 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thisistheshow said:

    @craig44 said:
    while Bill is a great HC, maybe the best ever, he did not make TB. Bill was always known as a defensive specialist. see his time with the Giants. He is next level organized, a phenomenal game planner, and maybe the best ever at breaking down film. He also runs the tightest ship in the league.

    If anyone made TB, you could look at his OC throughout the years. even then, I really believe TB is a singular talent. Not physically, but mentally. he can take in and analyze information perhaps faster than any other QB in history. His reads are superhuman. Check out his int. numbers. in fact, i would bet that 1/3 of the pics he has thrown in his career were due to a wrong route run by a reciever. He is so prepared and so football intelligent that it makes up for a lack of athleticism (though his arm really is pretty good)

    You can see his talent when you look at how he has been successful under a number of different offences. He is able to both stretch it out and play the underneath game.

    These are great points. When I write that there was a perfect storm, I mean it allowed these two guys to come together and operate for two decades. Tom having Bill as coach and Bill having Tom as QB allowed them to create something never seen before.

    You are correct. To achieve a "dynasty", you need that perfect storm.

    Packers, Dolphins, Steelers, 49ers, Cowboys and Patriots all had a couple of things in common. Excellent Quarterbacks, good defenses and great coaches. Lombardi/Starr, Shula/Griese, Knoll/Bradshaw, Walsh/Montana, Landry/Staubach or Johnson/Aikman and Belichick/Brady.

    Not sure if you would consider them Dynasties, but Denver with Shanahan/Elway and Raiders with Flores/Plunkett won a couple of SBs.

    Add a couple of teams that didn't quite make it in the Vikings and Bills. Grant/Tarkenton, Levy/Kelly.

    I would think the Patriots would have just as much success with Drew Brees or Peyton Manning as Brady, maybe even better! I think with a different HC they might have still won a few, but not as many.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 21,768 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2020 1:37PM

    LOL, Brady at 43 with Arians and who at OC vs Newton at 31 with Belichick and McDaniels? I’m so confident in Brady I say Brady will put up better numbers and have more wins than Newton. I propose that scenario with a Sig Line bet vs @stevek. Pats logo vs Eagles logo for the ENTIRE NFL Playoffs. Brady will pass for more yards, have more TD Passes and win more games than Newton. Bet or no bet?

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 21,768 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    Cam Newton will not have a better season than Brady. You can take that one to the bank.

    100% Agreed

  • stevekstevek Posts: 24,208 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @doubledragon said:
    Tom Brady is the reason for the Patriots success. There's no way Bill wins six Super Bowls with out Tom Brady. Just look at Bill's time in Cleveland, that went well for such a genius.

    I like thisistheshow's first post which is as far as i've read in the thread thus far.

    But the question has to asked...if Belichick would have actually had more success with a more athletically gifted QB than Tom Brady?

    Of course we shall never know.

  • stevekstevek Posts: 24,208 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    Cam Newton will not have a better season than Brady. You can take that one to the bank.

    Just to clarify, i am by no means a Cam Newton fan and i am a Tom Brady fan. I think all fans of the NFL should be a fan of Tom Brady.

    I just think if Belichick can win with a knucklehead such as Cam Newton, and Brady can't win for a team that has pulled out all the stops for him including signing Gronk...I don't think it diminishes Brady all that much because of his age, but i think it elevates Belichick from being just the GOAT, to perhaps a "Super-GOAT".

  • stevekstevek Posts: 24,208 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @doubledragon said:
    Hold me to it. If the Patriots make the playoffs with Cam Newton , I'll change my profile picture for a week to this...

    Otherwise known as a solo avatar bet. 😆

  • stevekstevek Posts: 24,208 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @perkdog said:
    LOL, Brady at 43 with Arians and who at OC vs Newton at 31 with Belichick and McDaniels? I’m so confident in Brady I say Brady will put up better numbers and have more wins than Newton. I propose that scenario with a Sig Line bet vs @stevek. Pats logo vs Eagles logo for the ENTIRE NFL Playoffs. Brady will pass for more yards, have more TD Passes and win more games than Newton. Bet or no bet?

    No bet. Mainly because it's no fun for me, because i don't have any skin in the game with either team or their players as far as rooting for my Eagles.

    I've stated this before, i don't particularly like either team's chances. Too many possible negatives involved, Brady's age and problems that go along with it, Newton's past injuries and silly behavior, etc.

    That being said, now it might be a Patriots-Bucs Super Bowl. LOL

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 21,768 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ok but you can’t blame me for throwing that out there though @stevek Now I will offer that same bet to Tim @1951WheatiesPremium as well if he is interested. Pats logo bs Giants logo

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,040 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Think of how many super bowls the Pats would have won if they didn't have that brain dead GM ?

  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 2,844 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Patriots had 8 players opt out. They cut their best receiver (that ain’t saying much). Their defense lost key players. Cam Newton is 31, slow, inaccurate, hasn’t played in 18 months and doesn’t have a clue how to run BB’s offense. The offense will be vanilla.
    Tampa Bay is stacked with an all star roster. Fournette, Evans, Gronk, Goodwin just to name a few. The defense was a top 10 defense the last 8 games last year. Winston threw 30 INT’s and made the defense play far to long and too often in their own end
    Now facts over feelings with what you just read what do you think?
    Tampa Bay 10 wins and a wild card or fighting for the division.
    New England 5-11 and fighting for Trevor Lawrence.

    In remembrance of James W Brennan Sr.
    1924-1982
    Dad, Thanks for everything you did for me.
  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 2,844 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stevek said:

    @doubledragon said:
    Hold me to it. If the Patriots make the playoffs with Cam Newton , I'll change my profile picture for a week to this...

    Otherwise known as a solo avatar bet. 😆

    Injury bug starting to bite the Eagles again. Is it something in the Gatorade or is it conditioning?

    In remembrance of James W Brennan Sr.
    1924-1982
    Dad, Thanks for everything you did for me.
  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 2,844 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @doubledragon said:
    Hold me to it. If the Patriots make the playoffs with Cam Newton , I'll change my profile picture for a week to this...

    Is that Cam Newtons modeling his latest hat?

    In remembrance of James W Brennan Sr.
    1924-1982
    Dad, Thanks for everything you did for me.
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 21,768 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @2dueces said:
    The Patriots had 8 players opt out. They cut their best receiver (that ain’t saying much). Their defense lost key players. Cam Newton is 31, slow, inaccurate, hasn’t played in 18 months and doesn’t have a clue how to run BB’s offense. The offense will be vanilla.
    Tampa Bay is stacked with an all star roster. Fournette, Evans, Gronk, Goodwin just to name a few. The defense was a top 10 defense the last 8 games last year. Winston threw 30 INT’s and made the defense play far to long and too often in their own end
    Now facts over feelings with what you just read what do you think?
    Tampa Bay 10 wins and a wild card or fighting for the division.
    New England 5-11 and fighting for Trevor Lawrence.

    Spoken like a guy who knows football 🍻👍👍

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 7,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Now don't get me wrong, Cam Newton will be winning a trophy this season, but it won't be the kind of trophy he wants...

    Hello, I'm a Joe Louis card addict.

  • stevekstevek Posts: 24,208 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @2dueces said:

    @stevek said:

    @doubledragon said:
    Hold me to it. If the Patriots make the playoffs with Cam Newton , I'll change my profile picture for a week to this...

    Otherwise known as a solo avatar bet. 😆

    Injury bug starting to bite the Eagles again. Is it something in the Gatorade or is it conditioning?

    Eagles should be competitive this season, of course as long as Wentz stays healthy.

    It's going to be a crazy season because of this corona virus, and the NFL is normally crazy enough without it.

    Always a fair amount or sometimes a great amount of luck involved with an NFL team winning a Super Bowl. And now there's the x-factor of the corona virus which at this point without a vaccine, how it will affect any individual team or the league as a whole is anyone's guess.

  • stevekstevek Posts: 24,208 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @perkdog said:
    Ok but you can’t blame me for throwing that out there though @stevek Now I will offer that same bet to Tim @1951WheatiesPremium as well if he is interested. Pats logo bs Giants logo

    I'm still hurting badly from losing an avatar bet last season when i had to change my avatar from my beloved Eagles to i forget what it was. Months of psychiatric therapy and i'm still having nightmares about it. So i'm a bit gun shy about doing another avatar bet at this time until i fully recover. :#

    ;)

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 7,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Being a Panthers fan, I've already been through this. The Patriots are already feeling the effects of the Newton influence.

    Hello, I'm a Joe Louis card addict.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 21,768 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @doubledragon said:
    Being a Panthers fan, I've already been through this. The Patriots are already feeling the effects of the Newton influence.

    😂😂😂😂😂😂

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    uggghhh. I think I want trevor lawrence.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 7,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @perkdog said:

    @doubledragon said:
    Being a Panthers fan, I've already been through this. The Patriots are already feeling the effects of the Newton influence.

    😂😂😂😂😂😂

    It's going to be a wild ride this season for the Patriots with Newton. You'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll never be the same once you've experienced the Newton effect! 😂😂😂😂

    Hello, I'm a Joe Louis card addict.

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 505 ✭✭✭

    I have loved the Patriots since before they were the Patriots and hope they do well this year but I am also routeing for Brady to win another super bowl.

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,040 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @2dueces said:
    The Patriots had 8 players opt out. They cut their best receiver (that ain’t saying much). Their defense lost key players. Cam Newton is 31, slow, inaccurate, hasn’t played in 18 months and doesn’t have a clue how to run BB’s offense. The offense will be vanilla.
    Tampa Bay is stacked with an all star roster. Fournette, Evans, Gronk, Goodwin just to name a few. The defense was a top 10 defense the last 8 games last year. Winston threw 30 INT’s and made the defense play far to long and too often in their own end
    Now facts over feelings with what you just read what do you think?
    Tampa Bay 10 wins and a wild card or fighting for the division.
    New England 5-11 and fighting for Trevor Lawrence.

    whatever a trevor lawrence might be , I'm assuming a 2021 draft hopeful ? Bear in mind Bill F###$ up every draft so if he was available he wouldn't choose him. Expect a long snapper to be the Pats 1st round pic in 2021

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,040 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @doubledragon said:
    Being a Panthers fan, I've already been through this. The Patriots are already feeling the effects of the Newton influence.

    My Nana (god rest her soul) always wore one of those if it looked like it might rain. That being said , Cam may have just come from the beauty parlor , lets give him the benefit of the doubt here.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 7,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bronco2078 , I remember when Cam was spotted at a Wal Mart wearing a little purse. It was all over the news. When I saw it, I just busted out laughing. You guys have some great entertainment heading your way this season.

    Hello, I'm a Joe Louis card addict.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 21,768 ✭✭✭✭✭

    He is trying to be like Rodman, that’s all what this is about

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 3,282 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bronco2078 said:

    @doubledragon said:
    Being a Panthers fan, I've already been through this. The Patriots are already feeling the effects of the Newton influence.

    My Nana (god rest her soul) always wore one of those if it looked like it might rain. That being said , Cam may have just come from the beauty parlor , lets give him the benefit of the doubt here.

    Mine did too. I can picture her now. If she had gotten her hair done or if it might rain, etc. (Love you Nanny. Miss you. See you again someday)

  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 2,844 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stevek said:

    @2dueces said:

    @stevek said:

    @doubledragon said:
    Hold me to it. If the Patriots make the playoffs with Cam Newton , I'll change my profile picture for a week to this...

    Otherwise known as a solo avatar bet. 😆

    Injury bug starting to bite the Eagles again. Is it something in the Gatorade or is it conditioning?

    Eagles should be competitive this season, of course as long as Wentz stays healthy.

    It's going to be a crazy season because of this corona virus, and the NFL is normally crazy enough without it.

    Always a fair amount or sometimes a great amount of luck involved with an NFL team winning a Super Bowl. And now there's the x-factor of the corona virus which at this point without a vaccine, how it will affect any individual team or the league as a whole is anyone's guess.

    I’m with you @stevek. I don’t hate any team but I root against Dallas every game. I’m hoping the Eagles stay healthy and Carson Wentz stays healthy and shows the MVP he was before he got hurt in 2017

    In remembrance of James W Brennan Sr.
    1924-1982
    Dad, Thanks for everything you did for me.
  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 505 ✭✭✭

    Direct tv is giving me the NFL package for free this year so I can choose if I want to watch Brady or the Patriots so I guess it will e Brady if I have to choose.

  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 2,844 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tommyrusty7 said:
    Direct tv is giving me the NFL package for free this year so I can choose if I want to watch Brady or the Patriots so I guess it will e Brady if I have to choose.

    I sure would like to know how to get it free.

    In remembrance of James W Brennan Sr.
    1924-1982
    Dad, Thanks for everything you did for me.
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 21,768 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @2dueces said:

    @tommyrusty7 said:
    Direct tv is giving me the NFL package for free this year so I can choose if I want to watch Brady or the Patriots so I guess it will e Brady if I have to choose.

    I sure would like to know how to get it free.

    Same here!

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 505 ✭✭✭

    I have no idea. Theyjust sent me an email saying it was free for me this year. I used to have it a couple of years ago but cancelled it because most of the Patriots games are on tv anyway so why waste the money if I only miss a few games a year.

  • emeraldATVemeraldATV Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭✭

    @stevek said:

    @perkdog said:
    Ok but you can’t blame me for throwing that out there though @stevek Now I will offer that same bet to Tim @1951WheatiesPremium as well if he is interested. Pats logo bs Giants logo

    I'm still hurting badly from losing an avatar bet last season when i had to change my avatar from my beloved Eagles to i forget what it was. Months of psychiatric therapy and i'm still having nightmares about it. So i'm a bit gun shy about doing another avatar bet at this time until i fully recover. :#

    ;)

    Pull yourself together ...
    WERE BACK !
    In living color, Ha Haaaa.

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  • MCMLVToppsMCMLVTopps Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭✭

    @perkdog said:

    @2dueces said:

    @tommyrusty7 said:
    Direct tv is giving me the NFL package for free this year so I can choose if I want to watch Brady or the Patriots so I guess it will e Brady if I have to choose.

    I sure would like to know how to get it free.

    Same here!

    So, in view of the above, I called Directv...unfortunatley, I had an Asian lady where the communication got a little "challenged". She did say that (of I thought she did), that Directv would be notifying customers via email if they were going to get comped on the 2020 season...so, all may not be lost.
    More importantly, I read somewhere that Sunday's games would be free as a promo...this would include Tom's game at 4PM. So, hopefully all is not lost.

    Minus the political BS, enjoy the games.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 4,448 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @2dueces said:

    @tommyrusty7 said:
    Direct tv is giving me the NFL package for free this year so I can choose if I want to watch Brady or the Patriots so I guess it will e Brady if I have to choose.

    I sure would like to know how to get it free.

    @perkdog said:

    @2dueces said:

    @tommyrusty7 said:
    Direct tv is giving me the NFL package for free this year so I can choose if I want to watch Brady or the Patriots so I guess it will e Brady if I have to choose.

    I sure would like to know how to get it free.

    Same here!

    Bookmark this link,it will update every week:
    http://buffstreamz.com/nfl-streams/

    Eric

  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 2,844 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tommyrusty7 said:
    I have no idea. Theyjust sent me an email saying it was free for me this year. I used to have it a couple of years ago but cancelled it because most of the Patriots games are on tv anyway so why waste the money if I only miss a few games a year.

    Thanks Tommy. I’ll look into getting a discount. My wife only likes movies and will watch nothing with commercials so I get every movie channel available on Directv. Don’t sh$t but my Directv bill is...
    Drum Roll, $174 a month. It’s for the wife. If it was up to me I’d get the $29 bill and stream just so I could get the NFL package during football.

    In remembrance of James W Brennan Sr.
    1924-1982
    Dad, Thanks for everything you did for me.
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