It’s been my experience that coins in Black NGC holders command a ton of premium money that goes way beyond the value of the coin they contain. I have seen a couple of coins in those holders I would have loved to own, but the asking price was so far over the value of coin, adjusted for the overly conservative grading, that I could never afford to involved with them.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@CoinscratchFever said:
While we’re on the subject.
How can you tell the difference between the original black holder and the retro crap Cameonut speaks of?
No line fatty, black insert. Not even the same as retro's
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
I would have to have one in hand (unlikely to happen) before I could really answer that. At that point I think I would be so happy to own that piece of history.....................
@CoinscratchFever said:
While we’re on the subject.
How can you tell the difference between the original black holder and the retro crap Cameonut speaks of?
The retro holder has the label on the front. It also has a horizontal channel that separating the coin from the label.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@CoinscratchFever said:
While we’re on the subject.
How can you tell the difference between the original black holder and the retro crap Cameonut speaks of?
No line fatty, black insert. Not even the same as retro's
Thanks! I’ll be on the hunt for it now. There must be a box of them somewhere and overlooked because of low grades.
@CoinscratchFever said:
While we’re on the subject.
How can you tell the difference between the original black holder and the retro crap Cameonut speaks of?
The retro holder has the label on the front. It also has a horizontal channel that separating the coin from the label.
m
Thanks! Time to revisit some old haunts. Translation: Antique, Flea Markets, and pawns. Or any place where one of these could go unnoticed.
@CoinscratchFever said:
While we’re on the subject.
How can you tell the difference between the original black holder and the retro crap Cameonut speaks of?
The retro holder has the label on the front. It also has a horizontal channel that separating the coin from the label.
m
Thanks! Time to revisit some old haunts. Translation: Antique, Flea Markets, and pawns. Or any place where one of these could go unnoticed.
You are looking for this
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@CoinscratchFever said:
While we’re on the subject.
How can you tell the difference between the original black holder and the retro crap Cameonut speaks of?
The retro holder has the label on the front. It also has a horizontal channel that separating the coin from the label.
m
Thanks! Time to revisit some old haunts. Translation: Antique, Flea Markets, and pawns. Or any place where one of these could go unnoticed.
You are looking for this
Cool, once I find one I’ll come back here for some show and sell.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Not very long ago, I would have answered yes.... However, having read of the high degree of collector interest and scarcity over the past year or so, I would say no.... I would preserve it for some future slab collector. Cheers, RickO
@oreville said:
this is why I like less expensive coins in NGC black slabs.
1938-D buffalo coins in MS-65 grade is a perfect coin in a black NGC slab.
1881-S Morgan silver dollars in MS-63 is another great coin in a black NGC slab.
It is best when a coin's high collector value does not compete against the high NGC slab value.
I speak from experience.
I own 11 NGC black slabs!!
Not selling them!!
Hiya Oreville!
Great to see you posting. What do you figure a black slab premium is worth?
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@keets ,
Just noticed your tag line. Big fan of George Carlin. The older he got, the more his act was spot on. You’re absolutely right about the material he’d have today.
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Indeed to each his own but I am constantly reminded of how original packaging can trump the item inside the package. Lionel trains is only one example.
I also enjoy collecting nice premium quality coins in recognized quality slabs that carry no premiums of their own.
To me it is a fun diversion.
@oreville said:
Lance, I have more of a chance in completing a box of 20 1933 Saints than I have a chance of >completing a box of 20 black NGC slabs!
i see now. you already though about it and are working on it and trying to play coy so one day out of the blue your new thread title. "mission complete. pcgs black box of 20 full of ngc 2.0 black slabs. the ultimate in numismatic crossover collecting!"
@WaterSport said:
Yes - In a heart beat! I can think of everything from upgrade potential, variety attribution, etc., for my reasons why. Its PLASTIC people!
WS
No. It is history, and many numismatics highly value history. I guarantee you someone like CRO would get 68 money out of a NGC black with gold sticker, and many, many, would be fighting for it.....
it really depends on the coin and what your goals are with it.
as a collector, i would probably leave it alone and enjoy it. in my mind, it's already worth whatever i think it is.
as a flipper, dealer, seller, whatever term you want to use...then it's a no brainer. if cracking it out gets you 5K more in profit...why wouldn't you?
@steveben said:
it really depends on the coin and what your goals are with it.
as a collector, i would probably leave it alone and enjoy it. in my mind, it's already worth whatever i think it is.
as a flipper, dealer, seller, whatever term you want to use...then it's a no brainer. if cracking it out gets you 5K more in profit...why wouldn't you?
How can you be so sure that cracking it out would increase it's value by more than $5,000?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
How can you be so sure that cracking it out would increase it's value by more than $5,000?
--- let's assume for fun that the coin is a 1940-S Walker graded MS66 or a 1951-S Franklin graded MS66.
that's what I posted on page one as a basis for the conundrum. it trades on whether there is more faith in the Gold CAC sticker and, hence, the price increase vs. love of the holder/sticker combination.
@keets said: How can you be so sure that cracking it out would increase it's value by more than $5,000?
--- let's assume for fun that the coin is a 1940-S Walker graded MS66 or a 1951-S Franklin graded MS66.
that's what I posted on page one as a basis for the conundrum. it trades on whether there is more faith in the Gold CAC sticker and, hence, the price increase vs. love of the holder/sticker combination.
Can you predict the grade that PCGS will give you after you crack it out with that much certainty? I sure can't.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
you're not paying attention, it has a Gold CAC sticker so you know without a doubt what was posted on page one and believed by the masses --- The gold sticker implies it’s likely to be at the high end of the 67 grade and perhaps better.
@keets said:
you're not paying attention, it has a Gold CAC sticker so you know without a doubt what was posted on page one and believed by the masses --- The gold sticker implies it’s likely to be at the high end of the 67 grade and perhaps better.
That raises an interesting question. Has anyone here ever sent an NGC graded coin with a gold CAC sticker for cross at PCGS and PCGS didn't give it a grade bump?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
probably no one who will admit it. come to think of it, I don't know if I've ever read about a CAC stickered coin that hasn't crossed. some will say that's because all have, proof of the CAC brand. the twist is that it's hard/impossible to prove a negative.
@steveben said:
it really depends on the coin and what your goals are with it.
as a collector, i would probably leave it alone and enjoy it. in my mind, it's already worth whatever i think it is.
as a flipper, dealer, seller, whatever term you want to use...then it's a no brainer. if cracking it out gets you 5K more in profit...why wouldn't you?
How can you be so sure that cracking it out would increase it's value by more than $5,000?
@keets said:
you're not paying attention, it has a Gold CAC sticker so you know without a doubt what was posted on page one and believed by the masses --- The gold sticker implies it’s likely to be at the high end of the 67 grade and perhaps better.
That raises an interesting question. Has anyone here ever sent an NGC graded coin with a gold CAC sticker for cross at PCGS and PCGS didn't give it a grade bump?
I'd bet a large sum of money that it's happened at least once.
@oreville said:
Lance, I have more of a chance in completing a box of 20 1933 Saints than I have a chance of >completing a box of 20 black NGC slabs!
i see now. you already though about it and are working on it and trying to play coy so one day out of the blue your new thread title. "mission complete. pcgs black box of 20 full of ngc 2.0 black slabs. the ultimate in numismatic crossover collecting!"
no worries, your secret is safe with me!
Lance: For real. No secret.
I have no expectations of acquiring more than 1 or 2 more black NGC slabs and was surprised that I had as many original black NGC slabs as I did.
I didn't vote because I was too interested to see what other people who actually had some knowledge about these things had to say, and I must now say - great thread @keets!
I care less about holders than probably almost everyone here and wouldn't hesitate to crack a rattler or OGH even just for a reholder with trueview and even I shudder at the thought of cracking a black NGC holder
Super rare coins like that should be in the hands of high end collectors who will share the rare coins in the rare holders with other professionals. I regret many of the crackouts I did years ago after reading the Travers book about how you could make money doing that. Just stupid in this case.
I will repeat what I have stated before.
I firmly believe that collecting NGC black slabs goes best with relatively inexpensive coins so that the black NGC slab stands out on its own.
When a more desired and expensive coin or a tremendous upgrade coin candidate is involved then you end up with a more confusing valuation of the entire "package" in which the slab premium become more difficult to calculate and also diminishes the value of the slab itself.
It also becomes more of a buyers market for such a slab.
Comments
It’s been my experience that coins in Black NGC holders command a ton of premium money that goes way beyond the value of the coin they contain. I have seen a couple of coins in those holders I would have loved to own, but the asking price was so far over the value of coin, adjusted for the overly conservative grading, that I could never afford to involved with them.
While we’re on the subject.
How can you tell the difference between the original black holder and the retro crap Cameonut speaks of?
No line fatty, black insert. Not even the same as retro's
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
I would have to have one in hand (unlikely to happen) before I could really answer that. At that point I think I would be so happy to own that piece of history.....................
My War Nickels https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/nickels/jefferson-nickels-specialty-sets/jefferson-nickels-fs-basic-war-set-circulation-strikes-1942-1945/publishedset/94452
The retro holder has the label on the front. It also has a horizontal channel that separating the coin from the label.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Thanks! I’ll be on the hunt for it now. There must be a box of them somewhere and overlooked because of low grades.
Thanks! Time to revisit some old haunts. Translation: Antique, Flea Markets, and pawns. Or any place where one of these could go unnoticed.
You are looking for this
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Cool, once I find one I’ll come back here for some show and sell.
May the force be with you
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Not very long ago, I would have answered yes.... However, having read of the high degree of collector interest and scarcity over the past year or so, I would say no.... I would preserve it for some future slab collector. Cheers, RickO
Never saw one before.
Are they harder to crack?
Does black holder mean melt value coin inside because that's what a gold sticker on a saint means.
Rather redundant don't you think?
Sorry, I should probably have read all the previous posts.
My Saint Set
Black holder, gold sticker? Never in a million years!
My YouTube Channel
this is why I like less expensive coins in NGC black slabs.
1938-D buffalo coins in MS-65 grade is a perfect coin in a black NGC slab.
1881-S Morgan silver dollars in MS-63 is another great coin in a black NGC slab.
It is best when a coin's high collector value does not compete against the high NGC slab value.
I speak from experience.
I own 11 NGC black slabs!!
Not selling them!!
Hiya Oreville!
Great to see you posting. What do you figure a black slab premium is worth?
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I might be convinced go for something like this, but it still impacts the clean black look!
Love this toned 1883-CC GSA Morgan Dollar
@keets ,
Just noticed your tag line. Big fan of George Carlin. The older he got, the more his act was spot on. You’re absolutely right about the material he’d have today.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
No need to apologize, you have a disclaimer built in to your name
My response:
Probably close to $5000.00
.
9 more and you'll have one of the most elusive and coveted boxes of 20 on earth!
No. Black slabs matter.
I would probably sell it and buy the coin in a holder that didn't carry its own premium. Expensive TPG exonumia isn't something I collect.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Indeed to each his own but I am constantly reminded of how original packaging can trump the item inside the package. Lionel trains is only one example.
I also enjoy collecting nice premium quality coins in recognized quality slabs that carry no premiums of their own.
To me it is a fun diversion.
** I am constantly reminded of how original packaging can trump the item inside the package**.
and now I'm reminded of the sealed GSA Dollars that sold years ago.
Lance, I have more of a chance in completing a box of 20 1933 Saints than I have a chance of completing a box of 20 black NGC slabs!
i see now. you already though about it and are working on it and trying to play coy so one day out of the blue your new thread title. "mission complete. pcgs black box of 20 full of ngc 2.0 black slabs. the ultimate in numismatic crossover collecting!"
no worries, your secret is safe with me!
No. It is history, and many numismatics highly value history. I guarantee you someone like CRO would get 68 money out of a NGC black with gold sticker, and many, many, would be fighting for it.....
Best, SH
it really depends on the coin and what your goals are with it.
as a collector, i would probably leave it alone and enjoy it. in my mind, it's already worth whatever i think it is.
as a flipper, dealer, seller, whatever term you want to use...then it's a no brainer. if cracking it out gets you 5K more in profit...why wouldn't you?
How can you be so sure that cracking it out would increase it's value by more than $5,000?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
How can you be so sure that cracking it out would increase it's value by more than $5,000?
--- let's assume for fun that the coin is a 1940-S Walker graded MS66 or a 1951-S Franklin graded MS66.
that's what I posted on page one as a basis for the conundrum. it trades on whether there is more faith in the Gold CAC sticker and, hence, the price increase vs. love of the holder/sticker combination.
Can you predict the grade that PCGS will give you after you crack it out with that much certainty? I sure can't.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
you're not paying attention, it has a Gold CAC sticker so you know without a doubt what was posted on page one and believed by the masses --- The gold sticker implies it’s likely to be at the high end of the 67 grade and perhaps better.
That raises an interesting question. Has anyone here ever sent an NGC graded coin with a gold CAC sticker for cross at PCGS and PCGS didn't give it a grade bump?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
probably no one who will admit it. come to think of it, I don't know if I've ever read about a CAC stickered coin that hasn't crossed. some will say that's because all have, proof of the CAC brand. the twist is that it's hard/impossible to prove a negative.
IF
I'd bet a large sum of money that it's happened at least once.
Lance: For real. No secret.
I have no expectations of acquiring more than 1 or 2 more black NGC slabs and was surprised that I had as many original black NGC slabs as I did.
I just like the look of the old NGC black slabs.
Here's another question:
How disappointed would you be if you dropped your coin and the black holder got a huge crack, but the coin was perfectly fine?
I'd sell on eBay to a purist for yuuuuge profits.
I didn't vote because I was too interested to see what other people who actually had some knowledge about these things had to say, and I must now say - great thread @keets!
No
I would price it based on what I thought could sell it for, cost plus at very least.
I care less about holders than probably almost everyone here and wouldn't hesitate to crack a rattler or OGH even just for a reholder with trueview and even I shudder at the thought of cracking a black NGC holder
Given the requirements of the OT clearly the slab itself is the really where the value of the "whole package" lies. So, no, I wouldn't crack it out.
I should point out that I would NOT buy such an item in the first place since I don't collect slabs. Others do so more power to them.
jom
Well...Up to recently
.... 
... 
My Saint Set
no way!
BHNC #203
Super rare coins like that should be in the hands of high end collectors who will share the rare coins in the rare holders with other professionals. I regret many of the crackouts I did years ago after reading the Travers book about how you could make money doing that. Just stupid in this case.
no
no and
no no no!
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
I will repeat what I have stated before.
I firmly believe that collecting NGC black slabs goes best with relatively inexpensive coins so that the black NGC slab stands out on its own.
When a more desired and expensive coin or a tremendous upgrade coin candidate is involved then you end up with a more confusing valuation of the entire "package" in which the slab premium become more difficult to calculate and also diminishes the value of the slab itself.
It also becomes more of a buyers market for such a slab.
Certainly not you cal always CAC if you think it’s undergrad
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923
No, as in no freaking way... ever.