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Would you crack or cross an NGC Black Holder??
keets
Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
Let's assume a Black NGC holdered coin with a Gold CAC sticker would increase in value to $5k, would you crack out the coin??
Would you crack or cross an NGC Black Holder??
This is a public poll: others will see what you voted for.
2
Comments
I can't imagine a scenario where cracking an NGC black holder with a gold CAC sticker would increase its value.
Need a hell no don’t be a fool option
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I couldn't destroy rare history like that........I just COULDN'T!
I would feel the need to preserve it PLUS I think it's COOL.
I am not ONLY about the money.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I think if crossing it or upgrading it would increase it by that much, The buyer would be able to see that and buy it for what the coin is PLUS the holder premium, and not the number on the slab.
Does the coin already have a gold CAC sticker or you think it might get one if cracked? It’s already worth $5000 or you think it might upgrade to something valued $5k more? I’m so confused.
If the potential increased value from an upgrade was way more than the black slab premium........ it might make sense to risk it, but that would be an exceptional case. In that case, reconsideration would be far less risky. Many (almost all?) of the coins I’ve seen in black NGC holders are coins that wouldn’t go up much in value even at a higher grade. Think 1881-S Morgans in MS65 - stuff like that. In that case you’d be a fool to crack it out.
But, there’s no shortage of those in the world.
You’re thinking too hard
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
let's assume for fun that the coin is a 1940-S Walker graded MS66 or a 1951-S Franklin graded MS66??
"If you could sprout wings would you fly to the moon?"
Cracking any coin thinking a resubmission might result in a gold CAC sticker is foolish.
Cracking an NGC black slab for that reason would be downright idiotic.
All of which leads me to believe the coin already has the sticker.
I don’t think so. I think the black plastic would end up drawing all the needed attention to get the price level where it should be.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
let's assume for fun that the coin is a 1940-S Walker graded MS66 or a 1951-S Franklin graded MS66??
already with a Gold CAC sticker, would you keep it in that holder??
Laughably, yes.
The mystique of the holder far outweighs the possibility of a slam dunk upgrade. In fact by leaving in its holder you will get credit for both.
The only way I think one would possibly think about cracking would be for Registry purposes and even then I think I’ll advised. But then again Registry collecting makes otherwise smart people do crazy things
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I love me some keets but this is Al just being a contrarian.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Mark, if I had a Black NGC 1940-S Walker with a Gold CAC I wouldn't hesitate to send it into PCGS to cross. where's your faith in John Albanese??
No, unless by "black holder" you mean the retro crap they put out in 2017 for their anniversary.
The plastic and upgrade potential would even it out when it came time to auction it.
Edited: It looks like retro holders were 2012 and 2015. It also looks like it was reserved for uber common dates and moderns which I was unaware of.
Of course! That’s like the perfect storm.
lakesasalmonbackgammon’s couldn’t write a check fast enough to buy one of these unicorns. His head may become unhinged like a Rock Em Sock Em Robot
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Is anyone else getting the feeling we are being trolled?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
And Bingo was his namo.
The plastic and upgrade potential would even it out when it came time to auction it.
you see, I read this as meaning "A bird in the bush is worth two in the hand" if that makes sense. your comment leads to confusion with a lot of members who place as much or more value on the Holder Generation and the CAC sticker than they do on the coin. wouldn't the properly graded and PCGS encapsulated MS67 1940-S Walker be more valuable than the NGC Back holdered and CAC stickered MS66 coin??
Perry, you aren't being trolled but you are being tested.
It is a psychology thing. People are always looking for bargains. A 66 with a gold sticker could easily do better than 67 with a green sticker especially given how stingy CAC is with gold stickers. Many coins that do upgrade by a point end up green stickering at both levels. Often it is at least a point and a half to get the gold although that is subjective and just based on my observations (so n=1). Then there is nostalgia for the plastic and CAC fans. The coin would likely be fresh to the market. The old holder also shows stability. There are so many reasons to keep it in the older plastic. Although it might not seem completely logical on its face, it only takes a couple (or few) fans to drive a coin into the stratosphere. Speculation is a powerful thing.
Geez, I feel like Tom Hanks in Cast Away!!
In your scenario if the 66 had a gold sticker that “total” package wound be more valuable then a 67 in a new holder. The gold sticker implies it’s likely to be at the high end of the 67 grade and perhaps better. That’s not even factoring in the black holder.
Personally I would rather have an OGH 1940-S Walker in 66 with gold CAC then a 67 in a new holder with a green sticker.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
There are (currently) 14 PCGS MS67 1940-S Walking Liberty halves. The (hypothetical) NGC black slab 1940-S 50C MS66 (with gold CAC) is almost certainly unique. So which would you pay more for considering it's the same coin in the holder?
I have so much faith in John Albanese and the black holder/ gold cac combo that I would pay you the 67 PCGS money. So save yourself the effort and just send it to me instead and I’ll send you a check for 15k.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Not even a fair contest.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
This might be as close to unanimous as you'll see.
You did the impossible and created a poll where everyone but you voted no (and one person voted it depends).
Around here, we're almost always getting trolled..... at least a little.
@Justacommeman is right. I am thinking too much. Here's my more succinct answer:
I do what makes sense to me. Sometimes I'm right. Sometimes I'm wrong.
Don’t you worry some other old dude with no imagination will be along in awhile to vote yes as well
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
ouch!! that hurt.........................
I'll also take it a step further. There are many buyers that are skeptical of higher graded coins in newer holders period. There are fewer players in the pool.
Liar. Liar pants on fire. You don’t have feelings!!
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I avoid newer holders. Have for a long time.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
m
I just arrived and voted no... Sorry but your theory is now in the hands of someone else.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Why, did he ask nonsensical silly questions too?
I remember cracking open those ugly things way, way back when. They were considered unattractive and impractical with the tag being on the reverse side, and I remember many dealers at major shows commenting they didn't care for them and didn't show the coins well (except maybe for large gold). Regardless of market values, I think they're just as ugly today and I've sold 4 of them here from my collection on the PCGS forums throughout the years. Their only redeeming quality IMO is they they are indeed very scarce which to me does not make something valuable nor desirable. Just my .02 :-)
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
Yes - In a heart beat! I can think of everything from upgrade potential, variety attribution, etc., for my reasons why. Its PLASTIC people!
WS
@Luxor isn’t most of our hobby based on low survival rates of things once discarded or otherwise not given much thought?
Not disallowing you’re opinion on this matter, just thinking.
It would have to be a heck of an upgrade on a fairly expensive coin to exceed the value of the holder. Keep in mind unless it's a dog(which obviously it would not be if you are wanting to crack it) it's already getting a grade bump or 2 due to the holder.
keets, what do you feel a gold CAC sticker means?
I'm looking for the cracked black slab photo
Yes, because if it didn’t come back favorably I would simply put it back where I found it. Assuming black holders can come apart w/o breaking.
They can’t so you don’t have a mulligan option.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
They were sonically sealed so a crack out would destroy the slab.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Then my answer is No. Dang it, well at that point after I busted the slab I would have to send it in. So now Yes again 🥺
I wouldn’t. I would probably sell the slab and use that money to buy the same coin in the higher grade.
Young Numismatist/collector
75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
I'd rather have a slab like that that not many others have
Many years ago (1992/93), I owned two, at about the same time. The only two I ever owned. I was flipping stuff back then, trying to make some pocket change.
And in the context of today's knowledge, I wince at the memory, because yes, I cracked one out. As I remember, it was a luster-bomb, blazer ... a 1937-S Walker in a 64 holder. I also remember thinking that it looked awesome in that holder. But I can tell you, those holders were beginning to be looked at with disdain (even more disdain than others). The black sheep, so to speak.
Can we stop here and do time travel, and I still own that coin, 28 years later? Please??
Okay, well ... again, as I remember, it was a little ticky (for a Superb Gem) but they were all small and not too focal, and although the strike was not great, it was still much better than average, and I was sure I could get a 65 out of her. I think the only reason I got it was because I didn't haggle much. Can't remember who, but I remember he hesitated when I didn't haggle enough! Anyway, I had it sent to PCGS through my mentor. For an upgrade, I remember it was a great score ... it went two points in grade and a little over 3x in dollars, even after the fees.
The other was an early Half Cent (pretty sure it was an 09 Classic Head, and I know it was in 63RB that was more Brown than Red). Bill talked me out of cracking that one out, even though he agreed it was under-graded. He was afraid it might come back BN, and that would wreck the deal. It was a darker RB and honestly looked terrible in that holder even though it was a gorgeous coin (for what it was). I had snagged it for back of bid probably because of the holder. Haha! To think!!
Anyway, pretty sure I ended up selling that to Gene with Seattle Coin for a maybe ? $40 profit. I think at the time he was squirreling those away (or he had a client that was), but I never could tell with him. I was too young and a little too long-hair for him. I do know he cut me a deal on something else though (because he knew it was a good coin and he appreciated me bringing it to him). I know because of that, it would have upgraded. He didn't do charity.
Today, there would be (almost) no chance I would crack out a coin in a NGC Black, even the "hidden" Half Cent. Not because of the grade, but because of the history. And from a money standpoint, it would have to be an amazing coin to be worth it, as from what I can tell the plastic would be worth more than the coin in almost all cases.
On a side note, it is also my opinion that collectively we have evolved to be better graders. Shop a real upgrade candidate around in a classic or collectible holder to people in the know, with the wide spread reach of today's internet, and it will garner the strong "gold sticker"-type money it deserves.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
They're more of a part of numismatic history than you or I will ever be. It's not just plastic.
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."