Just an impression but is there declining interest and premiums for First Strike coins?
2manycoins2fewfunds
Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭
or is it just me?
0
2manycoins2fewfunds
Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭
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As I've never had any interest to start with, I can't attest to my declining interest, but my impression is that it was never something that would have any lasting interest, as the demand for the label for any given issue is mostly short-lived. I imagine it was also hurt by the lack of shows this year with their respective special labels. I'm frankly rather surprised the program in general has lasted this long.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
For most modern Popular series the population on first strike is higher than non-first strike
It always has been a marketing ploy. Zero interest to begin with so it is difficult for interest to decline.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Oh no, I just love first (early die state) strikes! For instance; Check out the waves, lathe tool bit lines thru The U. S. of A! And all those other lines are streaks of toning and not light scratches. (I'll take that back, there are a few above the Mont.)
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Nice Nickel!!
Never made any sense to me either.
Especially on issues where the entire mintage sold out in hours, in essence making them all "first strikes."
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
collectors who started with FS labels try to keep their modern series labels consistent. It's either that or spending a lot of money reholdering. i'm still getting a small premium for FS and ER labels.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Love first strike and early release and whatever else you can throw at me that is graded at Or near spot.
I feel like you are just paying for the fancy label and don’t see the point in them personally.
Never had any interest, never will.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
First Strike (and similar) labels have an interesting market in there are different reasons people buy them. When a new coin is released, some people want one ASAP, whether or not they care about the First Strike label. Since all (most) of those initial coins will have the label, the people that don't want it are still going to pay more because they're competing with the people who do want it. A little later, when non-FS coins become available, the buyers can split into two pools. Concurrently, as more coins in general come to market, the price can drop. That is, of course, unless the coin is popular enough that demand keeps the price high. Look at the 2019-S Enhanced Silver Eagle. It did eventually drop in price, but with a low mintage, the price really soared. You won't see that same behavior with a coin that has a much higher mintage (and perhaps a smaller collector base).
Of course, after the initial feeding frenzy, many of the people who cared the most to get an FS coin have one, so demand will drop, and with it prices. Over time, that leaves a mix of FS and non-FS coins, but the people who care most about FS out of the market. As a result, the FS premium drops.
If FS had a material difference, I think the premium could be justified longer term. Because it really is just about the label, there's no mechanism to keep the premium strong over time if everyone who cares specifically about the designation has as many examples as they care to buy. It's not like CAM vs. DCAM or FB vs. non-FB where you can point to a quality difference that will always be there.
Just not into first strike coins.
Depends on the series. First Strike, First Spouse 70's have a significant premium on several dates.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
My interest in any coin younger than me is zero, so it couldn't be any lower.
Wait, it's extra cost for an ultra modern in a fancy package with pretty much meaningless words on the paper? And somebody's repro autograph?
Is there any way to short sell this type of "product"? The supply 8s literally endless.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Has the sizzle turned to fizzle?
I don't own any of these hyped coins - and will never pay a premium.
Someday the others will figure it out.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
I'm waiting for the LAST STRIKE label. The last one on the assembly line has to be worth more than your average strike.
For those not familiar with the designation, the original concept (first strike = early die state = coins with the best detail) wasn't a terrible idea. As has been said, in practice there is little to no correlation between the label at either major TPG and the die state. If the mint was to certify 25 coins (or some other number) from each die pair as the first struck, that might mean a little something....... but even then I'm not sure enough people would care to make it that big of a deal.
Does first strike still mean early die state? If not, to me it is a meaningless designation.
I agree... a bit. In the past, some dies would produce a few spectacular coins and then the quality would drop off immensely (think deep cameo Franklins, DMPL Morgans). The first strike from a set of dies on those could really be something special, but you can also identify them by the fact that they look like they do. Where the argument falls short today is that dies are much better and quality is far more heavily scrutinized (especially for collector coins, which are the ones that get FS labels), so the first coin struck and the 100th coin struck are likely indistinguishable, and once you can tell the difference, so can the Mint and they change out the dies. I suppose the first X coins struck overall could be novelties, but just for bragging rights, rather than necessarily having a superior coin.
Agreed.
First Strike 70s is where the premium is that.
Even First Strike 69s don't have that much price premium.
I am a strictly coin grade buyer for my registry sets
A PR70 or MS70 does not do anything to improve my sets if they are first strikes, first day of issue or regular designated strikes.
They get the same PCGS "value" with or without said attribute. A 70 is a 70.
They may increase a sets monetary value if I were to sell the set(s) or coins but not make my set better than yours
I will not pay extra for these. This is just a seller thing to make a higher profit. I do not care that they (sellers) have to jump through hoops to get these attributes. I only collect and do not sell so I am in a league of my own
Kennedys are my quest...
One HUGE assumption that some are making is that the mint releases inventory on a first-in first-out basis to preserve the early strikes. I have never heard how they manage inventory these days, but years ago there was no inventory management - more like last-in first-out.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Agreed. I have never seen any evidence whatsoever that the first coins sold or shipped represent the 1st coins produced. I also do not believe that either major TPG advertises the coins with these labels as the actual 1st struck coins. Therefore I don't think it these labels could ever be said to have anything to do with quality or any lasting property of the coin other than that the coins were shipped or purchased within a specified period of time to get the label.
There is one caveat to the above however. I have heard some describe their interests in these labels revolving around the fact that coins with these labels could not have been cracked out and re submitted. Therefore I have heard some make the argument that 70s with these labels achieve the 70 grade on the 1st attempt as opposed to being cracked out and cent in 2 or more times until the desired grade was achieved.
Beyond that clearly some people just like the labels for whatever reason and want to keep consistency within the labels in their collection.
The FS label is comparable to the 50 state quarter program, It gets people interested in collecting coins and there's nothing wrong with that, Everybody starts somewhere. The last generation, maybe two, didn't see much in mom and dad's change growing up and the use of credit cards. If there's a market for whatever than so be it..... that keeps/makes people happy.....nothing bad about that either.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Given the methods by which this "first strike" designation is arrived at, makes the appeal of paying a premium for one of these coins about the same as the appeal of paying a premium for the first squares off a roll of Charmin.
The reason I started this thread was related to a decision I'm about to make with some spouse gold that remains First Strike eligible.
If I took 10 coins and submitted them for grading and FS labels the math doesn't work......
Just as bullion thy are worth $1975+
If I submitted them for grading I'd have postage both ways, grading fees for all with extra charge if PR/MS70 then fees for First strike labels. Net net that could add close to $40 per coin.
I think I'll just scrape them and sell cases for $10 on Ebay.
Before scraping i'll put a little scratch on rims.............just my way of reducing populations.
Yes
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
They are rare enough you should be able to get a small premium over spot. Small being the key word though. These will never be widely collected. The base metal makes them too expensive for most and for those who have the money there are much better and more interesting coins to spend their money on.
Regarding the FS designation. I posted previously on this. They add no value to the coin and designate nothing about the actual minting order. The only logical argument for them given above is you can determine a FS 70 was graded such on the first look and not resubmitted. However, even this argument if mitigated by the fact that errors in the grading process go both ways. If grading is consistent, then error rate is consistent as well, and it is just as likely that a FS 70 should be a 69 as it is a FS 69 should be a 70. If grading is not consistent, then a 1-2 point difference should carry no premium. Currently is does, so there is a high confidence in the market for grading consistency (NGC and PCGS - ANACS not so much in 60+). So, on the other side of the coin, you have to assume a consistent error rate.
The label is nothing more than a marketing tool... a designation based only on a shipping date. Now, for label collectors, it means something... for coin collectors, nothing. Cheers, RickO
Not sure but with ease can buy 1st strike slabbed bullion coins for not much. Where is silver going?
About mo ago got a few MS 70 ASE dated 2020 for $45 each all first strikes. Pcgs price guide says $100.... super deal. Recently blew out all generic walkers and dollars (except for MS 65 one of each type) realizing CDN bid plus about 5 -10 pct. Laughing like heck / this stuff available by tens of thousands per issue or more. Then with some of that got a nice slabbed low pop early 20th century world coin it retailed a week later for cost x 2. Basically done w US unless cc or seated, barber can buy right. Good retail sales on Mexico slabbed Onzas (very high demand), Somalia Elephant, Niue Star Wars silver bullion issues. Looking for nice graded US 1914 FRNs.
Just waiting for the standard blue labels here, and I will wait as long as I need to till the price is right.
WS
What a waste of money to pay a premium for a first strike modern widget
Latin American Collection
If you have unopened Mint boxes that are first strike eligible of Louisa Adams Unc. and Proof, I would be interested in purchasing those above spot, send me a PM if you actually have these.
I will be happy to send them in for an extra $18 FS label. Doesn't matter to me if it is only a designation for a cardboard box within 30 days of mailing from the Mint, I still want First Strike Louisa's in 70.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Making them is different than buying them already made.
If you can make FS, it would be worth trying for 70s, or selling to someone who wants to try.
First I ever heard of that. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.
I'm seeing increased interest and premiums as they have become one of the cheaper ways to buy gold in a rising market.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
I can honestly say that my interest in them has not changed.
A few days ago I saw a 3-coin PCGS slab on eBay with the three 2016 gold 100th anniversary set (Mercury dime, SLQ, and WLH) and the label had "SP70" and "First Day of Issue". How is "First Day of Issue" different from "First Strike" or is it the same. Is one more desirable than the other?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
“Given the methods by which this "first strike" designation is arrived at, makes the appeal of paying a premium for one of these coins about the same as the appeal of paying a premium for the first squares off a roll of Charmin.”
In some of the bathrooms I have frequented lately, I would pay dearly for the first squares off a fresh roll of Charmin! Big money!
Wondercoin
Never understood it in the first place. When doomsday hits and I'm trading my coins for cans of spam nobody is going to care if they are first strikes, MS69 or MS70, emergency issued, cac'd etc. Just another marketing ploy IMO.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
“First Day of Issue” is 30 times more exclusive than “First Strike” since “First Strike” means first 30 days of issue.
As to which is more desirable, it depends on which one has more collector demand.
Thanks. It was a very neat slab that had the entire set of three gold 2016 100th anniversary coins in one large slab. with a single grade of SP70. I checked eBay again and it's been sold.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
To be fair, when Doomsday hits, no one is giving you spam for shiny chunks of medal.... unless they are in bullet form
It's the third strike I'm most concerned with. Two to go.
There are collectors who have no interest in First Strike labels, and you can count me among them.
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I bought two First Strike Jefferson Presidential dollars. After all these years, I still feel like an idiot for doing it.
And....if there is a declining interest then when did the First Strike craze peak?
There can only be one First Strike from a brand new pair of dies. Except for ceremonial strikes, the Mint does not keep a record of how early a coin was struck and does everything it can to provide a consistent product. In theory, you could have the very last coin from a pair of dies but if the coin arrives in a timely fashion, it could be considered as a First Strike. Every Hawaiian half dollar could be considered a First Strike. So could every Lafayette dollar.
It means a lot on HSN, which should tell you something.
FWIW, paper money collectors still pay nice premiums for low serial numbers. I guess the lack of ambiguity might be the difference.