@keets said: as I walk the aisle, I glance at every case, and if there are very few coins (if any) with CAC's, i just keep on walking by. i don't stop to ask if he has any.
this sort of thinking, which I suspect is more prevalent than many would admit, reflects why I think the way I do and post what I post. my inference is: if a dealer doesn't have a high percentage of coins in his case at a show with a CAC sticker it means that his inventory isn't worth looking at because it is sub-par.
how have Hobbyists gotten to this point, to a point where a sticker and the opinion of one individual dismisses all raw coins and the bulk of encapsulated coins --- without even looking at them??
I feel your pain, but the answer is simple enough. And it’s the same answer that led to the birth of CAC in the first place. And PCGS and NGC before them.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@keets said: as I walk the aisle, I glance at every case, and if there are very few coins (if any) with CAC's, i just keep on walking by. i don't stop to ask if he has any.
this sort of thinking, which I suspect is more prevalent than many would admit, reflects why I think the way I do and post what I post. my inference is: if a dealer doesn't have a high percentage of coins in his case at a show with a CAC sticker it means that his inventory isn't worth looking at because it is sub-par.
how have Hobbyists gotten to this point, to a point where a sticker and the opinion of one individual dismisses all raw coins and the bulk of encapsulated coins --- without even looking at them??
While I can agree in part with the sentiment here, I must admit that as I walk the aisles of (typically) Long Beach, I frequently don't stop at tables where there are few slabbed coins. It's not that I think that there can't be anything at such tables worthy of consideration, it's more that it's a large show and I have a limited amount of time and energy and I'm far more likely to find things of interest already in slabs. Given unlimited time, I'd certainly look through tables I normally don't, but it's a case of playing the percentages.
Halfway there. Respect on the original call.
Should have a poll with guesses for date for 1000th post.
Given the current velocity, I now find 1000 highly unlikely. Someone will start a different CAC thread before then and that'll be the shiny new object of attention...
I am really amazed. when I started this thread I thought it might get some interesting comments but never imagined anything like what has transpired. my main take-away from it all is that when something happens within the Hobby that essentially transforms the way we collect or the way business is done, it sort of becomes a lightning rod. such is the effect(or is it affect, cause I'm confused now ) that CAC has had.
like or don't like it, agree with it or don't agree with it, use it or don't use it, CAC has altered the Hobby. in my lifetime I have struggled with change and like most people, tend to fight it, but I have found that in the end "change" is usually a good thing when I finally embrace it and swim downstream.
I don't know if the thread is done or not but I'd like to thank everyone for making it an interesting one and the Moderators for letting us discuss.
To borrow a line from Kaiser Soze---the greatest lie ever told is that people dont like CAC threads or they feign the indignity of "another cac" thread.
There are certain threads i dont like or care about. I dont read them. I dont post on them. Unpopular topics generally die out rather quickly. Even if people disagree about Cac, it seems most people enjoy the discussion.
@No Headlights said:
After over 6,000 views and 500 posts did anyone change their opinion of CAC? Just curious.
Thanks in advance for your replies
I can't say that the thread changed my opinion of CAC, but I'm a moderate on the topic which means I already see a lot of positives and also some negatives. The main thing I learned was toward the end and how CAC isn't strictly rendering an opinion based on technical grade.
@CoinJunkie said:
The main thing I learned was toward the end and how CAC isn't strictly rendering an opinion based on technical grade.
JA market grades and he says that in this interview
He even goes further than that and says he doesn't care about technical merit...Start at 16:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDBaogB0aO0
I weight my Saints heavily on preservation & that is why I no longer submit to CAC.
The most popular seller at my last show was a guy who had a deal of 6 world coins for a dollar. He told me he sold over 300 lots of those. The wholesaler setup next to me did a booming business (no CAC in his stuff I looked thru). I am moving more to world coins, currency, bullion material, anyway. All the CAC coins I had sold them from the online store as the few people who did look them at shows here either did not have the money at that level of spending or would not pay the money. I would buy CAC coins if offered (Assuming they meet my taste, have potential move) but only if able to buy them right like anything else. A coins definitely move faster.
Has anyone launched a 100 pct CAC enterprise (shows)? I would be curious how that would fare. Just think a show case full of hundreds of CAC coins, a shining sea of green and gold. I have run numbers on the idea but I am like a coach who favors the spread vs some other playbook.
Undoubtedly there have been thousands of posts discussing CAC. I'm being lazy here, as I believe this question has probably been discussed ad nauseam, including by JA in interviews and such, but:
Is there a consensus as to what, to CAC, constitutes high quality, premium quality, A and B coins? In more objective terms?
It seems that surface originality is generally of paramount importance. Eye appeal seems to me to play second fiddle. For example, I'm looking for a stickered Mercury proof right now and the few I can find reasonably priced have surface haze, and don't meet my criterion for eye appeal. But that may just be me.
BTW I'm a big fan of CAC. The way collectors are treated is admirable, and many of the coins that I own are CAC approved, especially the gold and early type. To my amateur eye most of what I see is indeed of superior quality, but not all. I'm looking for clues if anyone cares to share.
@CoinJunkie said:
The main thing I learned was toward the end and how CAC isn't strictly rendering an opinion based on technical grade.
JA market grades and he says that in this interview
He even goes further than that and says he doesn't care about technical merit...Start at 16:30
OK, thanks for posting that. I'm not so much troubled by his statement that he won't sticker a (technically) 65 coin that isn't worth "65 money", as much as the fact that he will sticker coins that don't make the grade technically due to a toning bump. But I am glad to know that's what's happening.
@oldabeintx said:
Is there a consensus as to what, to CAC, constitutes high quality, premium quality, A and B coins? In more objective terms? snip
I'm looking for a stickered Mercury proof right now and the few I can find reasonably priced have surface haze, and don't meet my criterion for eye appeal. But that may just be me.
I'm finding CAC helpful on proof walkers for hairlines.
Not so much on EAC & actually misleading on Saints (specifically MS65 & 66)
If you find that his opinion on Mercs is very much aligned with yours, a bean would be very helpful in finding one you like.
I think questions regarding the value of his service should be more coin specific.
@oldabeintx said:
Is there a consensus as to what, to CAC, constitutes high quality, premium quality, A and B coins? In more objective terms? snip
I'm looking for a stickered Mercury proof right now and the few I can find reasonably priced have surface haze, and don't meet my criterion for eye appeal. But that may just be me.
I'm finding CAC helpful on proof walkers for hairlines.
Not so much on EAC & actually misleading on Saints (specifically MS65 & 66)
If you find that his opinion on Mercs is very much aligned with yours, a bean would be very helpful in finding one you like.
I think questions regarding the value of his service should be more coin specific.
The reason I'm looking for a stickered Mercury proof is to avoid hairlines. My proof half, cent and quarter are all CAC (doing a 1938 parent anniversary set). Impossible to detect hairlines from photos, for me anyway.
Yes these discussions on CAC go on and on like some old country song / I wonder if those folks would even pay the money.....or would they walk away in sticker shock.
Abe to answer your question I would suggest the thread on coin talk (58 pages) will it CAC contest where members vote / comment if coin will CAC then the reveal. Very interesting.....I am addicted to it. Voting can be mixed or overwhelmingly thumbs up or down on certain pieces. I feel sorry for the owners where voting considerably in thumbs down direction.
@oldabeintx said:
Is there a consensus as to what, to CAC, constitutes high quality, premium quality, A and B coins? In more objective terms? snip
I'm looking for a stickered Mercury proof right now and the few I can find reasonably priced have surface haze, and don't meet my criterion for eye appeal. But that may just be me.
I'm finding CAC helpful on proof walkers for hairlines.
Not so much on EAC & actually misleading on Saints (specifically MS65 & 66)
If you find that his opinion on Mercs is very much aligned with yours, a bean would be very helpful in finding one you like.
I think questions regarding the value of his service should be more coin specific.
65 and 66 Saints where the poster children for gradeflation. CAC Saints sell at a healthy premium for a reason. Obviously you felt the same when you submitted a nice batch to CAC. Personally, I think all gold is his jam.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Comments
yeah, yeah, that's the ticket. Morgan Fairchild................................
I feel your pain, but the answer is simple enough. And it’s the same answer that led to the birth of CAC in the first place. And PCGS and NGC before them.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
While I can agree in part with the sentiment here, I must admit that as I walk the aisles of (typically) Long Beach, I frequently don't stop at tables where there are few slabbed coins. It's not that I think that there can't be anything at such tables worthy of consideration, it's more that it's a large show and I have a limited amount of time and energy and I'm far more likely to find things of interest already in slabs. Given unlimited time, I'd certainly look through tables I normally don't, but it's a case of playing the percentages.
Halfway there. Respect on the original call.
Should have a poll with guesses for date for 1000th post.
Given the current velocity, I now find 1000 highly unlikely. Someone will start a different CAC thread before then and that'll be the shiny new object of attention...
A CAC thread that made it this long and over 500 posts? A new record!
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Or at least a over/under prediction.
Wow. 6.6K views. I wonder how long it will take to hit 10K
I seem to recall a 22 page thread involving me and probably Laura. It was nuked after the fact though.
I am really amazed. when I started this thread I thought it might get some interesting comments but never imagined anything like what has transpired. my main take-away from it all is that when something happens within the Hobby that essentially transforms the way we collect or the way business is done, it sort of becomes a lightning rod. such is the effect(or is it affect, cause I'm confused now
) that CAC has had.
like or don't like it, agree with it or don't agree with it, use it or don't use it, CAC has altered the Hobby. in my lifetime I have struggled with change and like most people, tend to fight it, but I have found that in the end "change" is usually a good thing when I finally embrace it and swim downstream.
I don't know if the thread is done or not but I'd like to thank everyone for making it an interesting one and the Moderators for letting us discuss.
After over 6,000 views and 500 posts did anyone change their opinion of CAC? Just curious.
Thanks in advance for your replies
To borrow a line from Kaiser Soze---the greatest lie ever told is that people dont like CAC threads or they feign the indignity of "another cac" thread.
There are certain threads i dont like or care about. I dont read them. I dont post on them. Unpopular topics generally die out rather quickly. Even if people disagree about Cac, it seems most people enjoy the discussion.
I can't say that the thread changed my opinion of CAC, but I'm a moderate on the topic which means I already see a lot of positives and also some negatives. The main thing I learned was toward the end and how CAC isn't strictly rendering an opinion based on technical grade.
JA market grades and he says that in this interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDBaogB0aO0
He even goes further than that and says he doesn't care about technical merit...Start at 16:30
I weight my Saints heavily on preservation & that is why I no longer submit to CAC.
My Saint Set
The most popular seller at my last show was a guy who had a deal of 6 world coins for a dollar. He told me he sold over 300 lots of those. The wholesaler setup next to me did a booming business (no CAC in his stuff I looked thru). I am moving more to world coins, currency, bullion material, anyway. All the CAC coins I had sold them from the online store as the few people who did look them at shows here either did not have the money at that level of spending or would not pay the money. I would buy CAC coins if offered (Assuming they meet my taste, have potential move) but only if able to buy them right like anything else. A coins definitely move faster.
Has anyone launched a 100 pct CAC enterprise (shows)? I would be curious how that would fare. Just think a show case full of hundreds of CAC coins, a shining sea of green and gold. I have run numbers on the idea but I am like a coach who favors the spread vs some other playbook.
Undoubtedly there have been thousands of posts discussing CAC. I'm being lazy here, as I believe this question has probably been discussed ad nauseam, including by JA in interviews and such, but:
Is there a consensus as to what, to CAC, constitutes high quality, premium quality, A and B coins? In more objective terms?
It seems that surface originality is generally of paramount importance. Eye appeal seems to me to play second fiddle. For example, I'm looking for a stickered Mercury proof right now and the few I can find reasonably priced have surface haze, and don't meet my criterion for eye appeal. But that may just be me.
BTW I'm a big fan of CAC. The way collectors are treated is admirable, and many of the coins that I own are CAC approved, especially the gold and early type. To my amateur eye most of what I see is indeed of superior quality, but not all. I'm looking for clues if anyone cares to share.
OK, thanks for posting that. I'm not so much troubled by his statement that he won't sticker a (technically) 65 coin that isn't worth "65 money", as much as the fact that he will sticker coins that don't make the grade technically due to a toning bump. But I am glad to know that's what's happening.
I'm finding CAC helpful on proof walkers for hairlines.
Not so much on EAC & actually misleading on Saints (specifically MS65 & 66)
If you find that his opinion on Mercs is very much aligned with yours, a bean would be very helpful in finding one you like.
I think questions regarding the value of his service should be more coin specific.
My Saint Set
Yes these discussions on CAC go on and on like some old country song / I wonder if those folks would even pay the money.....or would they walk away in sticker shock.
Abe to answer your question I would suggest the thread on coin talk (58 pages) will it CAC contest where members vote / comment if coin will CAC then the reveal. Very interesting.....I am addicted to it. Voting can be mixed or overwhelmingly thumbs up or down on certain pieces. I feel sorry for the owners where voting considerably in thumbs down direction.
65 and 66 Saints where the poster children for gradeflation. CAC Saints sell at a healthy premium for a reason. Obviously you felt the same when you submitted a nice batch to CAC. Personally, I think all gold is his jam.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I'll beat the dead horse again! If you like what JA likes you are fine...if not...well!
In terms of getting sticker yes.