Cashless society?
Attumra
Posts: 182 ✭✭✭
Just a what if question. What would happen to our hobby if they banned cash and made virtual cash only way to buy/trade/sell etc by lets say a chip either on the person or device they carry? Managed by starlink (yes its real and went online Jan 19th this year 60 satilites up with a plan to i belive do 39k to cover the whole world) I believe this would make what we had more valuable? But would kill our Hobby or maybe a already running bullion would take over? thank you.
Tagged:
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Coin collecting would decline sharply. Out of sight, out of mind.
Medal collecting might gain in popularity with proper marketing such as took place during the early days of the Franklin Mint.
We... the living.... and generations yet to come... will never see the 'banning' or total elimination of cash.... If and when, such an event were to transpire, it would make the existing coins even more valuable. Just look at what has happened to the 1933 Saint... or imagine the value of a '64 Peace Dollar....Or any of the high end rarities we see at auctions. Yes, coin collecting will endure...Cheers, RickO
Clearly and for several reasons such a move would be Unconstitutional. Also this would provide unprecedented power to large money center banks which is just not conducive for a viable economy for mainstream America.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
First - this will never happen.
Second - all it would do to the hobby is put an end to the current series. Everything would still be the same and I wouldn't have to keep buying these worthless modern Dimes every year.
I don't think it will ever happen. If we were to pretend it were to happen, I don't think it would impact the hobby one bit. Money is money. If a dealer pays rent by transferring funds, transferred funds for a coin purchase will be OK too.
How is it unconstitutional? It would act same as fed or treasury would take over? ( I believe how he fed is run, or owned unconstitutional)I would not wish for this also.
The mechanisms for this have existed for some years, but unless forced to do it (I think one of he Scandinavian countries has sort of done this) some people will continue to use cash.
If coins were eliminated then coin collectors would become like antique collectors - collecting something with a finite and ever-aging supply. I do think the number of collectors would diminish though, since coins would be less and less familiar to newer generations.
However, change does not exist in a vacuum. As I learned in chemistry class many years ago, and which applies to so many things in life, "for every action, there is a reaction." Without cash and coins, other mediums of exchange would appear for those wanting something physical. Bullion rounds, gold rings, copper ingots, etc.
I wonder what percent of transactions are cashless now? Personally, I almost never use cash. Outside a few niche types of transactions, it's odd to see someone pay in cash or with a check these days.
I can't even begin to imagine what the effects of a cashless society would even look like ... let alone being part of.
I know that there are strong sentiments here about China, but 1/6th of the world could be using digital currency by the end of this year.
Jesse C. Kraft, Ph.D.
Resolute Americana Curator of American Numismatics
American Numismatic Society
New York City
Member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), British Numismatic Society (BNS), New York Numismatic Club (NYNC), Early American Copper (EAC), the Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4), U.S. Mexican Numismatic Association (USMNA), Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC), Token and Medal Society (TAMS), and life member of the Atlantic County Numismatic Society (ACNS).
Become a member of the American Numismatic Society!
And here I thought all debts and payments were to be made in gold and silver. That changed - why not from scraps of paper to digital. You now have 9,000,000 electrons in your account.
If you dive deeper into the subject you will find that the FED is "unconstitutional" in a number of respects least of which is ownership. The Federal Reserve is not "federal" nor a "Reserve." Start by reading "The Creature from Jeckyll Island." There are free copies for viewing on line. I'm pretty confident the framers of the US Constitution would have a huge problem with the creation of the FED.
I don't think the Fed is unconstitutional BUT the way its run is, Being owned privately Not by our government is.
I had heard that there was some sort of virus going around. People were afraid of cash.
I put an ad on Craig's, offering to accept any unwanted green. It's going OK, I recommend it !
It’s unclear to me what the impact will be on numismatics, but we’re getting close. No one under 35 years old uses paper and metals disks anymore, just old farts like us. I bet we’ll see it within 10 years. Many stores already only accept cards. It’s truly inevitable.
Dave
the advent of email did not kill stamp collecting
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Not sure where to start in terms of responding to responses that seem to move in different directions.
To be clear and so there is no misunderstanding, I am not challenging the constitutionality of Federal Reserve Banking System that was established during the Wilson Administration towards the close of 1913.
The Constitutionality issue will be addressed in a subsequent response.
What I do not accept, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, is the concept of being forced to use chips, some type of cyber currency or ANYTHING that requires me to conduct financial transactions that are exposed to a risk/exposure for which I have either minimal or no control over. I am not willing today or at anytime in the future to relinguish control over my finances or what I may be financially liable, including the ability to satisfy debts, buy or sell anything through a means that extends beyond what I am satisfied is secure and without creating long term financial harm for which I may have minimal, if any, recourse.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Collecting evolves, regardless. Back 20 years ago pre-paid phonecards and other pre-paid stored value cards became a collecting "fad" and were accepted as being numismatic. Many European countries favored those chips in the cards that US credit cards have finally integrated today. Back then a number of the cards actually stored their usage and value, like a subway card used to. Now the value is kept online, and those cards eventually expired regardless of storage method. I would not trust a central depository to control access to my money. The current system has good safeguards in place for electronic access and as noted physical holdings.
Can I email you if I ever need you to stand up for my rights? Asking for a friend.
Strong is not even close.....China as a Country can go to you know where!!! They should be held accountable for what they have done to us and the rest of the World!!!!!
Do you use credit cards, maintain a bank account, or buy online? I'm not picking a fight, but if yes, you must know the control you wish to maintain is long gone already. It's like the almost constant notifications about compromised online records. It's so common now it's practically spam to get those notifications. I'm not thrilled with it, but I recognize it as a tide lifting all boats.
Yep, just look at all those posts and heated discussions in the Stamp Forum!
This is somewhat comical and if I get banned because of my reply than so be it. I believe in transparency.
Azurescens... I am one of the most liberal personalities that participates on this forum. And in this instance in connection with this issue, I suspect that there are those that may now see me as a reactionary ... Afraid of the future and the technology that should make things easier. And the reality is, I am just not able to see it that way. People may have some doubt for what they are not able to understand. More importantly, and perhaps because of that doubt, people should have the right to choose what is consistent with their level of comfort which should not be an imposition... Period.
I will never retreat from standing firm in my conviction that the Federal Government has a distinct obligation in providing a means to conduct commerce which includes coinage and the establishment of currency that will satisfy debts and all aspects of commerce.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I do not bank on line. Never have and never will. And there is difference between having money in a bank, in an account that is FDIC insured, than on line banking that may not be secure.Credit cards have contracts and with those contracts, there are financial limitations in terms of liability imposed on the card holder. And that likely explains the interest rate today that is charged to accounts given the current lows in interest rates that have NEVER been seen in my lifetime... Except for the 2008 financial meltdown
Matt_dac... You can laugh at me... Frankly, I am unable to care what you think given what has already transpired with hacks into banks and other institutions that were believed to be secure. And I remain responsible for my boat... Regardless as to what happens to others or how how much I may care about them.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Sad but true stamps are dead I think my father has many and they're not worth much now. Very hard finding buyer in this day and age.
Outright ban on cash - no. But the COVID-19 experience will likely convince more people to stop using cash. I collect the ATB Quarters from circulation and I noticed that it had already gotten more difficult the past couple of years. It'll get worse I bet as people become more reticent to have direct contact.
Whatever you are, be a good one. ---- Abraham Lincoln
cashless society...Bring it On...
Well, something sure did.
Nothing wrong with digital money/transactions. Just don't remove my OPTION of having a way to take physical possession of my money. Otherwise it's really not mine. With no option to withdraw and hold it, digital money can be forced into spending simply by charging (instead of paying) interest on the balance. The money masters would love nothing more than to control your incentive to spend, seeing it as a way to stimulate employment, inflation and things we can't even imagine. Eventually we'll need a National Money Association to lobby and protect our first amendment right to own and bear cash.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Just ask them about Tiananmen Square, Winnie the Pooh, Eeyore, or June 4 1989.
It disconnects Chinese bots from servers and crashes their Internet connections because of the CCP. I can remember this working as far back as dialup and still works today.
You can put any number of related pieces of information like that with those keywords, and counterfeiters won't be able to open your image or post. Just put a Winnie the Pooh face on all your coin images.
I'm not kidding.
They also have concentration camps for the Uyghurs. While I'm thankful the world (finally) cared so much when it was happening to my people, I'm really disappointed that it's 80 years later and people just let it happen, nbd. Just like kids in cages at the US border.
But I'm disgusted nobody on the international stage can stand up for the systemic eradication of a native peoples whose only crime is not being Han Chinese. Nuke em. Mess with my coins and genocide? Byeeee.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
That doesn't mean that businesses need to accept it. At a certain point all retail will be cashless. Dealing with cash won't be worth their while.
People still collect ancient coins, even from civilizations no longer existing. If somehow the world became cashless, there would still be collecting. It would have a smaller scope and the prices would rise slowly over time, but it would exist without question.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
I see a bright future for gold and silver coins considering the ballooning national debt.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Back to the good ole days?
Stamp collecting was on the skids long before email. I remember stamp dealers in town. Haven't seen a stamp dealer anywhere in years.
I'm not sure about the constitutional imperative of minting/printing money. I will note that several of my local restaurants no longer accept cash (and this was prior to Covid-19). I highly doubt there will be any governmental or legal action which forces them to resume doing so.
All that aside, I think if cash went away completely, it would probably have a positive impact on coin collecting. Antiquated classes of objects are often more highly prized as collectibles.
I have been on an airline unwilling to accept cash... Never pushed the issue. I suspect the entity unwilling to accept US currency within the US would be on the wrong side of the argument.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
It absolutley could happen. Pelosi tried to slip in a crypto bill in one of the bailout bills for Corona.
Not to mention the 10's of millions killed during Mao's cultural revolution
Actually, I did a quick bit of research and you may be right. NYC recently passed a law making cashless establishments illegal in the city. Massachusetts has had a state law on the books since 1978 doing the same. Will be interesting to see if this becomes a trend.
There's a loophole in the NYC law whereby a business is exempt if they have a machine on premises to load cash onto a debit card. Sorry if this digression was OT.
Banning cash would start a ...stampede.... to gold.
A few states have laws that businesses must accept cash (requiring credit or debit cards is seen as discrimination against lower income groups).
As for your local restaurants not accepting cash, I guess you hang out with a higher class of people than I do. A couple places I go to only accept cash.
I followed up on my original post which you quoted above. Based on subsequent Googling, I found Massachusetts is the only state with a law against cashless establishments. I just double-checked and New Jersey has also recently passed such a law. Can you cite any others?
LOL on the bolded comment above. I live in a major university town and the referenced establishments cater to students primarily!
Massachusetts is probably the one I was thinking of. I am not sure on others but I had the impression that there were at least one or two more.
That is funny but I guess not surprising that college students don't use cash at restaurants. I have seen twenty-somethings use debit or credit cards for everything, including a bottle of Coke out of a machine.
I rarely used cash how ever since this mess has happened I’ve leaned back to cash a little especially for tips on take out just something about cash I’m your pocket I can see it going away anytime soo
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923
The issue with cash is anonymity. The government will not allow the creation of any more means of exchange that is anonymous (crypto is a big threat here, and a thorn in their philosophical side). 4% of Americans will not use a form of payment that requires ID. It is true that those 4% are generally very poor (although not all are) and don't have much political clout, but they do have some. So something has to give. I will say that none of the people on these boards fit the average demographic profile of this group.
It would surprise you about how many people still use checks, although not in the volumes they used to. Most checks, however, are now business checks. Banks still make money processing checks, so they won't stop unless someone makes them. I talked to a corporate treasurer who still floats one check a year...he pays a $100MM tax bill on Christmas eve and generally gets free interest on that money for 2 weeks.
When the Federal Reserve was created, the US couldn't just print their way out of financial disasters. The people who were in the meeting at Jekyll Island provided the money to set it up...that's why they owned it, the stock wasn't free you had to buy it and there weren't many people in the world that had enough $ to get invited. That may have changed, but the info is closely held.
don't you think cash alternatives would also eventually be on the chopping block? The ONLY reason to outlaw cash and not keep it as an option (as is now the case) is to remove the ability to have possession of one's own money. Banning the use of cash will be attempted under the guise of eliminating illegal and under the table transactions.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Understandable, I have been on a few commercial planes that didn't have a cash register in the galley or stewardesses with the little coin thingies on their belts.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong