UPDATE - GOOD NEWS: Need some advice on USPS claim
OGDan
Posts: 3,749 ✭✭✭✭✭
UPDATE at bottom of page 1.
About a month ago I shipped a couple coins to a forum member here using a flat rate box. Fully insured with signature confirmation required. The package never arrived. Instead the signature and address on the confirmation look like someone made little squiggles. They didn't even try to fake it.
I waited the required 15 days and failed a claim, and included all the documentation the USPS asks for. I received a snail mail letter just a few days later, today, stating the claim was denied. (amazing response time!)
In all my years of shipping coins, this is the first issue I've had. Apparently shipping coins to Maryland is no bueno right now, even after they just busted someone on the inside.
Can anyone who's been through this already offer me any tips? Is there a big dog USPS employee in Maryland that you might point me to? I plan to file an appeal, but I'm fearful they'll just claim it was delivered.
Thank you in advance.
Comments
Dang! That's where my registered package was stolen. Keep resubmitting your claim. Took me 3 tries.
Your buyer should be able to help as he might just know the delivery man. Question as to where it could have been delivered. That would be your best bet.
bob
That sucks Dan. I hope they make you whole. Good luck
You will need to get the route supervisor where the package was delivered to run a trace of the address where the postal employee scanned the package. If scan address is different than the address on the package, that should be enough to win your insurance claim.
If the scan address and package address are the same, It will be difficult to win your insurance claim.
This... plus have the buyer go to his local post office, they can tell him where it was delivered. They GPS the delivery scans. Did you submit a letter from they buyer that he never received the package.
Good advice here, thanks everyone. A couple things we can try.
Was it silver spring MD by chance? That’s where my package was stolen a few months back and where julians coins helped bust one of the postal workers.
Edit: I see you referenced that in your post missed that first time.
I did go to the postal office. They say it was delivered. I never got it though. Thing is, signature required and it was a non signature.
Unfortunately, I don't know the route supervisor.
Anything specific I should say/ask the postal office workers?
Thanks everyone
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
Laurel post office
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
It sucks because I always love receiving coins from Dan. They are some of the best in my collection.
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
You can ask the postal workers to go get the supervisor.
specifically.........
The USPS scanners have GPS and if you ask the Supervisor he can look it up and tell you within a few feet where it was delivered.
Really sorry to hear about this and hope you can get a good solution.
Real bummer! I wonder if private insurance is a good path in the future given the challenges of the USPS
Latin American Collection
Very sorry to hear this. Knowing you two, the coins are probably unusual or unique. Care to post here what the missing coins are? Those of us who collect the same things can keep an eye open for it in case they appear on the market.
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
Private insurance also has conditions tied to claims.
The USPS scanners have GPS and if you ask the Supervisor he can look it up and tell you within a few feet where it was delivered.
This.
Both UPS and USPS are now asking customers if they can sign for the customer when a package is delivered so that nobody except the carrier touches the screen. To me, this invites more possibilities for postal fraud.
I knew it would happen.
They're never at fault and never ever made me whole after losing packages. For 99% of my shipments, the usps is perfect. It's that one percent, again.
I had multiple registered mail packages insured for 25000 that were stolen. Every time the claim was denied twice. One I had to get a lawyer involved in. They will do everything they can to deny your claim, particularly if was shown as delivered. Get a notarized affidavit from who you sent it stating that they unequivocally did not receive the package. Provide proof of value (cashed check, paypal receipt etc.) Stay diligent. I do believe that if they deny the claim 3x than it is considered over. I'm not sure of the value, but a letter from a lawyer may go a long way if it warrants the expense.
I've provided proof of the transaction, along with statement of value signed from a dealer. We haven't done the notarized affidavit that package wasn't ever received, I like that idea. Hoping not to involve a lawyer, it's not a small amount (or I would have used registered mail), but also not huge.
Bummer
Unfortunately, I don't know the route supervisor.
I got the supervisor's name, phone number and email address from the post office. The guy would not return my call or email. I talked to my mail delivery person and she helped me get the information from the supervisor. The Post Office would not give me the address where the coin was delivered because they were afraid I would go and cause trouble getting my coin. My mail deliver person went to the scanned address to get my coin and she got it and delivered it to me.
That’s an awesome story, at least the ending. Do you think it was theft or just left at the wrong house?
In this case I think the mail carrier might be in on it.
once the package is in the hands of the mail service you have no control over what happens after that, and yeah they dropped the ball but will never admit it, not the first or last time either they will drop the ball
as for sig confirmation any sig will work the postal worker cares not who signs as long as it's signed for and such
https://www.omnicoin.com/collection/colind?page=1&sort=sort&sale=1&country=0
It was delivered to the wrong house. My mail carrier was real upset that she made a mistake.
I would immediately get the postal inspector involved and ask what you need to do in order to get your claim fulfilled. Have your proof available and like others have said, have a letter from the buyer indicating the package was never delivered. You can also send a letter (complaint) to your states attorney general to get them involved as well.
Good luck!
I agree that the postal inspectors have a lot of power. This is a crime and should be treated as such. Chain of command/responsibility has a lot of aspects. Postmaster, both yours and your recipient's. District postmaster at the local processing hub.
When I filed a claim I had to keep up the pressure. Send all evidence to the claim office, they will still say it isn't enough! You can have your Congressman open a case on it; I was sent internal communications with the claim office complaining that they did not have enough evidence though I provided invoices, usps information on the parcel, images, etc.. Finally there is a usps office in DC that reviews the claim too.
https://faq.usps.com/s/article/Domestic-Claims-The-Basics
If my claim is denied a second time, what is the next step?
If your claim is denied a second time, you may file a final appeal to the Consumer Advocate within 30 days of the date of the second denial. If filed online, you may submit online. In your appeal, please explain why your case should be reviewed. Also, make sure that proof of value, evidence of mailing and insurance coverage for the article has been provided.
If you did not file online, you may mail your final appeal to the following address:
CONSUMER ADVOCATE
DOMESTIC CLAIMS APPEALS
475 L’ENFANT PLAZA SW
WASHINGTON, DC 20260-2200
For more details on payable claims, see the Domestic Mail Manual 609.
@signature - it's the postal delivery man that keeps signing it. the past 3 signature required packages. 2 I didnt receive, the 3rd was sitting on my doorstep waiting for me.
The weird thing is its not consistent. Sometimes, they sign it with squiggles. Other times they sign it "M Carrier"... Regardless, it would seem to me if we pay for signature required handling, and they are forging/abusing it, that should be guilt enough.
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
Send it Certified Mail with a return receipt in case they lose it. Just sayin'.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
You had better have your ducks quacking in neat order.
People on furlough, people missing stuff, people out sick, substitutes covering routes, etc.
People having trouble caring about XXX (coins, whatever) when people don't have jobs, can't pay the rent, etc.
It is a paperwork nightmare growing, not just at USPS.
I get what you're saying, but they apparently had someone working to reject my claim and mail me a letter stating so within 2 business days. If they're that attentive to denying claims, one would hope they're also that attentive to hearing appeals.
Current situation is no excuse for theft. I paid for a service, and if they are hiring substitutes, that's their problem. If they'd like to delay hearing my case for 3 months, so be it, but they had better pay up for the theft that occurred on their watch.
One of the really shocking things to me is how much usps insurance costs compared to the private alternatives, over 1% of declared value. And they fight paying out whereas the top private insurers pay out quickly in most cases.
if you are paying for a service that requires a signature then the carrier is required to go to door to attempt delivery. If no one is home then notice is left. The carrier (sub or regular) should not sign for package if you are not home. If you are home then yes carrier will sign and indicate they signed for customer because of covid-19. They then hand you package.
exactly. in fact, during the signing time, I can prove noone was home. both me and my wife were at work.
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
ITS rare that a package that needs a signature is misdelivered because of extra attention on that package. I would speculate that there is some hanky panky going on with the carrier. Only other thing it could be is that it was stolen out of mailbox but it should not be in box if you were not home. As mentioned before the scanners the carriers use have gps and can get within a few feet of where it was scanned. The post office has that info and will tell you that info if you continue to go up the ladder at the po. Honestly they do care and want to find the package.
Well, I wish they would have put it in my mailbox. It's a locked box. I live in a townhome community. That locked box is some 300 feet from my house. So, normally, USPS is too lazy to use it. Hence, packages are left on my doorstep.
Which, if that happened, could easily have resulted in a theft.
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
This happened with UPS twice in the past week - we sign for wine deliveries, UPS person would not let us and told us he would sign.....
Best, SH
Filed the 1st appeal last night. They generously gave me a few hundred characters to state my case and provide new evidence. It was like Twitter, trying to fit all the words in such a tiny space. I also uploaded the sworn statement that the package wasn’t delivered. The upload may or may not have worked. Can’t tell. What a poorly run operation.
Someone should file in court a really well documented claim of how the usps has systematically denied reasonable claims, and seek additional damages. That might have to be a federal court for jurisdiction. It is a criminal case when the usps has an internal thief and should be taken very seriously by them. Instead they fight like the dickens to deny claims and many people give up.
Good luck with the USPS. Below is a link to my lost package. It's somewhat long but worth your read.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1015018/some-good-news-it-just-got-more-interesting-the-rest-of-the-story/p1
Jim, your story is almost unbelievable. I wish this one was just a mistake or accident (not involving bodily harm) but I'm 99% sure it was theft. I'm glad to hear your appeal was successful in reversing the decision. Hoping this case is reversed too, but ultimately both the buyer and I would rather just have the coins.
Yes, I'd much prefer the coin. However, as you can see you'd better have a receipt or dealer appraisal of the coin. Fortunately, I had a Regional Manager the local Post Master referred me to assist. If not for her, it would not have end as well as it did.
I really hope it ends well for you. PM me if you need any advice from my experience.
Also, if it was theft then the Postal Inspector will be able to get involved. In my case they weren't.
Thanks Jim. I already provided the dealer appraisal, but the initial claim was denied. I can't say if it was theft or if they left it with someone at a different address, but either way they didn't deliver and get a signature from the addressee.
And, to be clear, this wasn't a case of "they signed for me after giving me the package" scenario.
I work for the government, and have logs of being at work. Not that I can provide those to the USPS... but, still.
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
The USPS can drive you mad. Just don't go postal...
So how does one get the postmaster involved? This is the local postmaster for where the package was to be delivered? What do you do if they ignore you?
Ask for his number and those of the postal inspectors.
Have you been able to get a supervisor to check the GPS scan?
You need to file a complaint with the postmaster or postal inspector, the USPS employee should be fired for this.
5/26/2020 UPDATE:
After a months long battle with the USPS, I am happy to report that a check showed up in the mail today, for the full insured amount. A lot of thanks go to @TradesWithChops (the buyer) for being patient while I worked through this all. Our hope all along was to get the coins back, but it doesn't appear likely.
Here's what happened:
Outcome: DENIED
Reason: "Package was delivered" (it was not)
Outcome: DENIED
Reason: "Package was delivered" (so they say)
So I realized that someone was just rubber stamp denying this, without any effort to find out what really happened. I had one more appeal in my pocket, but I wasn't confident the outcome would be any different so I needed help.
Reached out to the USPS Inspector Generals office (OIG) for help. They have a web form where I submitted the story and asked for help. They responded in a few days telling me "After careful review, we have determined the U.S. Postal Service Consumer and Industry Contact Office is the proper office to handle your concern. We have forwarded this inquiry to your local consumer affairs office for direct response to you."
Called the local U.S. Postal Service Consumer and Industry Contact Office, which for me is in Oakland, CA. This is basically the Customer Service branch of the US post office, and a different entity than where a claim goes. This is where I got lucky. The lady answering the phone listened to my entire story, put me on hold while she relayed my story to a co-worker, then came back and said she felt horrible for what had happened and would do everything she could to help. Whoa, what's this? Someone actually cares!? From then on, this sweet lady worked her tail off to represent my interests with zero blind loyalty to the post office. She called the offending post office branch (Laurel, MD) and repeatedly called them and emailed them until she got a response. From what she told me, she's still working on getting to the bottom of what happened out there and is working with the internal affairs dept. (or whatever the USPS calls it).
HERE'S THE MOST IMPORTANT PART, FOR ANYONE TRYING TO DO WHAT I DID:
The lady helping me opened what's called a "Service Request". This service request is a unique customer service record where she would file all of the notes about her investigation. This included her observation that the signature on the "proof of delivery" was never obtained (this is pre-covid), the geo-location of the delivery scan was different than the delivery address...shoot she even google mapped the delivery address and included screen shots of the street view. She was like my own personal detective. The key here is to have someone in the Consumer and Industry Contact Office open this service request with assigned number, so that you can include this in your claim/appeal.
Outcome: APPROVED
...and a few days later the check showed up. Cashed that sucker real quick before the USPS goes under.
In the end, I wasted a ton of time with this hassle, but it felt good to have some resolution. Also, I will never ship anything priority mail with insurance again. It's like a sign saying "valuables inside - steal me". Also, the Laurel, MD post office is rotten. Beware.