Home U.S. Coin Forum

UPDATE - GOOD NEWS: Need some advice on USPS claim

OriginalDanOriginalDan Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited May 26, 2020 7:11PM in U.S. Coin Forum

UPDATE at bottom of page 1.

About a month ago I shipped a couple coins to a forum member here using a flat rate box. Fully insured with signature confirmation required. The package never arrived. Instead the signature and address on the confirmation look like someone made little squiggles. They didn't even try to fake it.

I waited the required 15 days and failed a claim, and included all the documentation the USPS asks for. I received a snail mail letter just a few days later, today, stating the claim was denied. (amazing response time!)

In all my years of shipping coins, this is the first issue I've had. Apparently shipping coins to Maryland is no bueno right now, even after they just busted someone on the inside.

Can anyone who's been through this already offer me any tips? Is there a big dog USPS employee in Maryland that you might point me to? I plan to file an appeal, but I'm fearful they'll just claim it was delivered.

Thank you in advance.

«1

Comments

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Dang! That's where my registered package was stolen. Keep resubmitting your claim. Took me 3 tries.

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 23,271 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Your buyer should be able to help as he might just know the delivery man. Question as to where it could have been delivered. That would be your best bet.

    bob ;)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), [email protected]
  • CrustyCrusty Posts: 676 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That sucks Dan. I hope they make you whole. Good luck

  • djmdjm Posts: 1,376 ✭✭✭✭

    @AUandAG said:
    Your buyer should be able to help as he might just know the delivery man. Question as to where it could have been delivered. That would be your best bet.

    bob ;)

    This... plus have the buyer go to his local post office, they can tell him where it was delivered. They GPS the delivery scans. Did you submit a letter from they buyer that he never received the package.

  • OriginalDanOriginalDan Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Good advice here, thanks everyone. A couple things we can try.

  • PhilLynottPhilLynott Posts: 809 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020 8:52PM

    Was it silver spring MD by chance? That’s where my package was stolen a few months back and where julians coins helped bust one of the postal workers.

    Edit: I see you referenced that in your post missed that first time.

  • TradesWithChopsTradesWithChops Posts: 640 ✭✭✭✭

    I did go to the postal office. They say it was delivered. I never got it though. Thing is, signature required and it was a non signature.

    Unfortunately, I don't know the route supervisor.

    Anything specific I should say/ask the postal office workers?

    Thanks everyone

    Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
    More Than It's Chopped Up To Be

  • TradesWithChopsTradesWithChops Posts: 640 ✭✭✭✭

    @PhilLynott said:
    Was it silver spring MD by chance? That’s where my package was stolen a few months back and where julians coins helped bust one of the postal workers.

    Edit: I see you referenced that in your post missed that first time.

    Laurel post office

    Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
    More Than It's Chopped Up To Be

  • TradesWithChopsTradesWithChops Posts: 640 ✭✭✭✭

    It sucks because I always love receiving coins from Dan. They are some of the best in my collection.

    Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
    More Than It's Chopped Up To Be

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020 9:40PM

    You can ask the postal workers to go get the supervisor.

    specifically......... :D

  • GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 7,796 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AUandAG said:
    Your buyer should be able to help as he might just know the delivery man. Question as to where it could have been delivered. That would be your best bet.

    bob ;)

    The USPS scanners have GPS and if you ask the Supervisor he can look it up and tell you within a few feet where it was delivered.

    GrandAm :)
  • kazkaz Posts: 8,533 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Really sorry to hear about this and hope you can get a good solution.

  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Real bummer! I wonder if private insurance is a good path in the future given the challenges of the USPS

  • DDRDDR Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very sorry to hear this. Knowing you two, the coins are probably unusual or unique. Care to post here what the missing coins are? Those of us who collect the same things can keep an eye open for it in case they appear on the market.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 23,484 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Boosibri said:
    Real bummer! I wonder if private insurance is a good path in the future given the challenges of the USPS

    Private insurance also has conditions tied to claims.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 21,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The USPS scanners have GPS and if you ask the Supervisor he can look it up and tell you within a few feet where it was delivered.

    This.

    Both UPS and USPS are now asking customers if they can sign for the customer when a package is delivered so that nobody except the carrier touches the screen. To me, this invites more possibilities for postal fraud.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 42,632 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They're never at fault and never ever made me whole after losing packages. For 99% of my shipments, the usps is perfect. It's that one percent, again.

  • zas107zas107 Posts: 733 ✭✭✭

    I had multiple registered mail packages insured for 25000 that were stolen. Every time the claim was denied twice. One I had to get a lawyer involved in. They will do everything they can to deny your claim, particularly if was shown as delivered. Get a notarized affidavit from who you sent it stating that they unequivocally did not receive the package. Provide proof of value (cashed check, paypal receipt etc.) Stay diligent. I do believe that if they deny the claim 3x than it is considered over. I'm not sure of the value, but a letter from a lawyer may go a long way if it warrants the expense.

  • OriginalDanOriginalDan Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've provided proof of the transaction, along with statement of value signed from a dealer. We haven't done the notarized affidavit that package wasn't ever received, I like that idea. Hoping not to involve a lawyer, it's not a small amount (or I would have used registered mail), but also not huge.

  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 9,797 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Bummer :o

  • OriginalDanOriginalDan Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @slider23 said:
    Unfortunately, I don't know the route supervisor.

    I got the supervisor's name, phone number and email address from the post office. The guy would not return my call or email. I talked to my mail delivery person and she helped me get the information from the supervisor. The Post Office would not give me the address where the coin was delivered because they were afraid I would go and cause trouble getting my coin. My mail deliver person went to the scanned address to get my coin and she got it and delivered it to me.

    That’s an awesome story, at least the ending. Do you think it was theft or just left at the wrong house?

    In this case I think the mail carrier might be in on it.

  • silverpopsilverpop Posts: 5,929 ✭✭✭✭✭

    once the package is in the hands of the mail service you have no control over what happens after that, and yeah they dropped the ball but will never admit it, not the first or last time either they will drop the ball

    as for sig confirmation any sig will work the postal worker cares not who signs as long as it's signed for and such

  • slider23slider23 Posts: 415 ✭✭✭

    @OriginalDan said:

    @slider23 said:
    Unfortunately, I don't know the route supervisor.

    I got the supervisor's name, phone number and email address from the post office. The guy would not return my call or email. I talked to my mail delivery person and she helped me get the information from the supervisor. The Post Office would not give me the address where the coin was delivered because they were afraid I would go and cause trouble getting my coin. My mail deliver person went to the scanned address to get my coin and she got it and delivered it to me.

    That’s an awesome story, at least the ending. Do you think it was theft or just left at the wrong house?

    In this case I think the mail carrier might be in on it.

    It was delivered to the wrong house. My mail carrier was real upset that she made a mistake.

  • ShadyDaveShadyDave Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would immediately get the postal inspector involved and ask what you need to do in order to get your claim fulfilled. Have your proof available and like others have said, have a letter from the buyer indicating the package was never delivered. You can also send a letter (complaint) to your states attorney general to get them involved as well.

    Good luck!

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree that the postal inspectors have a lot of power. This is a crime and should be treated as such. Chain of command/responsibility has a lot of aspects. Postmaster, both yours and your recipient's. District postmaster at the local processing hub.

    When I filed a claim I had to keep up the pressure. Send all evidence to the claim office, they will still say it isn't enough! You can have your Congressman open a case on it; I was sent internal communications with the claim office complaining that they did not have enough evidence though I provided invoices, usps information on the parcel, images, etc.. Finally there is a usps office in DC that reviews the claim too.

    https://faq.usps.com/s/article/Domestic-Claims-The-Basics

    If my claim is denied a second time, what is the next step?

    If your claim is denied a second time, you may file a final appeal to the Consumer Advocate within 30 days of the date of the second denial. If filed online, you may submit online. In your appeal, please explain why your case should be reviewed. Also, make sure that proof of value, evidence of mailing and insurance coverage for the article has been provided.

    If you did not file online, you may mail your final appeal to the following address:

    CONSUMER ADVOCATE
    DOMESTIC CLAIMS APPEALS
    475 L’ENFANT PLAZA SW
    WASHINGTON, DC 20260-2200

    For more details on payable claims, see the Domestic Mail Manual 609.

  • TradesWithChopsTradesWithChops Posts: 640 ✭✭✭✭

    @silverpop said:
    once the package is in the hands of the mail service you have no control over what happens after that, and yeah they dropped the ball but will never admit it, not the first or last time either they will drop the ball

    as for sig confirmation any sig will work the postal worker cares not who signs as long as it's signed for and such

    @signature - it's the postal delivery man that keeps signing it. the past 3 signature required packages. 2 I didnt receive, the 3rd was sitting on my doorstep waiting for me.

    The weird thing is its not consistent. Sometimes, they sign it with squiggles. Other times they sign it "M Carrier"... Regardless, it would seem to me if we pay for signature required handling, and they are forging/abusing it, that should be guilt enough.

    Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
    More Than It's Chopped Up To Be

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 42,341 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @logger7 said:

    If you did not file online, you may mail your final appeal to the following address:

    CONSUMER ADVOCATE
    DOMESTIC CLAIMS APPEALS
    475 L’ENFANT PLAZA SW
    WASHINGTON, DC 20260-2200

    For more details on payable claims, see the Domestic Mail Manual 609.

    Send it Certified Mail with a return receipt in case they lose it. Just sayin'. ;)

  • mustangmanbobmustangmanbob Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You had better have your ducks quacking in neat order.

    People on furlough, people missing stuff, people out sick, substitutes covering routes, etc.

    People having trouble caring about XXX (coins, whatever) when people don't have jobs, can't pay the rent, etc.

    It is a paperwork nightmare growing, not just at USPS.

  • OriginalDanOriginalDan Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mustangmanbob said:
    You had better have your ducks quacking in neat order.

    People on furlough, people missing stuff, people out sick, substitutes covering routes, etc.

    People having trouble caring about XXX (coins, whatever) when people don't have jobs, can't pay the rent, etc.

    It is a paperwork nightmare growing, not just at USPS.

    I get what you're saying, but they apparently had someone working to reject my claim and mail me a letter stating so within 2 business days. If they're that attentive to denying claims, one would hope they're also that attentive to hearing appeals.

    Current situation is no excuse for theft. I paid for a service, and if they are hiring substitutes, that's their problem. If they'd like to delay hearing my case for 3 months, so be it, but they had better pay up for the theft that occurred on their watch.

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭✭✭

    One of the really shocking things to me is how much usps insurance costs compared to the private alternatives, over 1% of declared value. And they fight paying out whereas the top private insurers pay out quickly in most cases.

  • Larrob37Larrob37 Posts: 205 ✭✭✭

    if you are paying for a service that requires a signature then the carrier is required to go to door to attempt delivery. If no one is home then notice is left. The carrier (sub or regular) should not sign for package if you are not home. If you are home then yes carrier will sign and indicate they signed for customer because of covid-19. They then hand you package.

  • TradesWithChopsTradesWithChops Posts: 640 ✭✭✭✭

    @Larrob37 said:
    if you are paying for a service that requires a signature then the carrier is required to go to door to attempt delivery. If no one is home then notice is left. The carrier (sub or regular) should not sign for package if you are not home. If you are home then yes carrier will sign and indicate they signed for customer because of covid-19. They then hand you package.

    exactly. in fact, during the signing time, I can prove noone was home. both me and my wife were at work.

    Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
    More Than It's Chopped Up To Be

  • Larrob37Larrob37 Posts: 205 ✭✭✭

    ITS rare that a package that needs a signature is misdelivered because of extra attention on that package. I would speculate that there is some hanky panky going on with the carrier. Only other thing it could be is that it was stolen out of mailbox but it should not be in box if you were not home. As mentioned before the scanners the carriers use have gps and can get within a few feet of where it was scanned. The post office has that info and will tell you that info if you continue to go up the ladder at the po. Honestly they do care and want to find the package.

  • TradesWithChopsTradesWithChops Posts: 640 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2020 6:10PM

    @Larrob37 said:
    ITS rare that a package that needs a signature is misdelivered because of extra attention on that package. I would speculate that there is some hanky panky going on with the carrier. Only other thing it could be is that it was stolen out of mailbox but it should not be in box if you were not home. As mentioned before the scanners the carriers use have gps and can get within a few feet of where it was scanned. The post office has that info and will tell you that info if you continue to go up the ladder at the po. Honestly they do care and want to find the package.

    Well, I wish they would have put it in my mailbox. It's a locked box. I live in a townhome community. That locked box is some 300 feet from my house. So, normally, USPS is too lazy to use it. Hence, packages are left on my doorstep.

    Which, if that happened, could easily have resulted in a theft.

    Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
    More Than It's Chopped Up To Be

  • spacehaydukespacehayduke Posts: 4,014 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    The USPS scanners have GPS and if you ask the Supervisor he can look it up and tell you within a few feet where it was delivered.

    This.

    Both UPS and USPS are now asking customers if they can sign for the customer when a package is delivered so that nobody except the carrier touches the screen. To me, this invites more possibilities for postal fraud.

    This happened with UPS twice in the past week - we sign for wine deliveries, UPS person would not let us and told us he would sign.....

    Best, SH


    Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan...
    Everyman Bust Quarters
    Early Quarters
    CAC Capped Bust Quarters
    CAC Barber Quarters
  • OriginalDanOriginalDan Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Filed the 1st appeal last night. They generously gave me a few hundred characters to state my case and provide new evidence. It was like Twitter, trying to fit all the words in such a tiny space. I also uploaded the sworn statement that the package wasn’t delivered. The upload may or may not have worked. Can’t tell. What a poorly run operation.

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Someone should file in court a really well documented claim of how the usps has systematically denied reasonable claims, and seek additional damages. That might have to be a federal court for jurisdiction. It is a criminal case when the usps has an internal thief and should be taken very seriously by them. Instead they fight like the dickens to deny claims and many people give up.

  • labloverlablover Posts: 3,331 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Good luck with the USPS. Below is a link to my lost package. It's somewhat long but worth your read.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1015018/some-good-news-it-just-got-more-interesting-the-rest-of-the-story/p1

    "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
  • OriginalDanOriginalDan Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Jim, your story is almost unbelievable. I wish this one was just a mistake or accident (not involving bodily harm) but I'm 99% sure it was theft. I'm glad to hear your appeal was successful in reversing the decision. Hoping this case is reversed too, but ultimately both the buyer and I would rather just have the coins.

  • labloverlablover Posts: 3,331 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 31, 2020 4:14PM

    @OriginalDan said:
    Jim, your story is almost unbelievable. I wish this one was just a mistake or accident (not involving bodily harm) but I'm 99% sure it was theft. I'm glad to hear your appeal was successful in reversing the decision. Hoping this case is reversed too, but ultimately both the buyer and I would rather just have the coins.

    Yes, I'd much prefer the coin. However, as you can see you'd better have a receipt or dealer appraisal of the coin. Fortunately, I had a Regional Manager the local Post Master referred me to assist. If not for her, it would not have end as well as it did.

    I really hope it ends well for you. PM me if you need any advice from my experience.

    Also, if it was theft then the Postal Inspector will be able to get involved. In my case they weren't.

    "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
  • OriginalDanOriginalDan Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks Jim. I already provided the dealer appraisal, but the initial claim was denied. I can't say if it was theft or if they left it with someone at a different address, but either way they didn't deliver and get a signature from the addressee.

  • TradesWithChopsTradesWithChops Posts: 640 ✭✭✭✭

    @OriginalDan said:
    Thanks Jim. I already provided the dealer appraisal, but the initial claim was denied. I can't say if it was theft or if they left it with someone at a different address, but either way they didn't deliver and get a signature from the addressee.

    And, to be clear, this wasn't a case of "they signed for me after giving me the package" scenario.

    I work for the government, and have logs of being at work. Not that I can provide those to the USPS... but, still.

    Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
    More Than It's Chopped Up To Be

  • labloverlablover Posts: 3,331 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OriginalDan said:
    Thanks Jim. I already provided the dealer appraisal, but the initial claim was denied. I can't say if it was theft or if they left it with someone at a different address, but either way they didn't deliver and get a signature from the addressee.

    The USPS can drive you mad. Just don't go postal...

    "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
  • OriginalDanOriginalDan Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So how does one get the postmaster involved? This is the local postmaster for where the package was to be delivered? What do you do if they ignore you?

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ask for his number and those of the postal inspectors.

  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 6,019 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Have you been able to get a supervisor to check the GPS scan?

  • ShadyDaveShadyDave Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TradesWithChops said:

    @silverpop said:
    once the package is in the hands of the mail service you have no control over what happens after that, and yeah they dropped the ball but will never admit it, not the first or last time either they will drop the ball

    as for sig confirmation any sig will work the postal worker cares not who signs as long as it's signed for and such

    @signature - it's the postal delivery man that keeps signing it. the past 3 signature required packages. 2 I didnt receive, the 3rd was sitting on my doorstep waiting for me.

    The weird thing is its not consistent. Sometimes, they sign it with squiggles. Other times they sign it "M Carrier"... Regardless, it would seem to me if we pay for signature required handling, and they are forging/abusing it, that should be guilt enough.

    You need to file a complaint with the postmaster or postal inspector, the USPS employee should be fired for this.

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file