Options
Post your contemporary counterfeits
Boosibri
Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭✭
1776-Mo PR 2 Reales. Of course there is no such assayers as "P.R". The correct assayer combination would have been "F.M"
9
Boosibri
Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭✭
Boosibri
Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
Micro-O variety. Struck on a sterling silver planchet, but its weight is spot on for a genuine Morgan.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Weight: 10.1 gm (should be closer to 12.5 gm)
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Circulated, with test marks and ca. 80% of the gold wash remaining. Reeded edge.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Any idea why a contemporary counterfeit Morgan$ would be struck from Sterling silver??
Doesn't quite add up..they would almost certainly be made from a base metal and silver washed...
🤔
That is an excellent question, one that occurred to me. This is an issue that surfaces for the family of counterfeit micro-O Morgans. Maybe they were made to launder money or stolen silver goods?
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
1883 NC nickel, altered with gold plating (some remains) and then reeded to be passed as a half eagle.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
My "Morgan":
1837 Half Eagle. Formerly in Judd.
There are a few in this drawer.
I'll take pics when I get home..
Perhaps the most widely known of all-time, but so common they won't command a lot of premium respect . . . the "Henning"
The Obverse . . . . . . .
Drunner
Technically, that one is not a "micro-o". But it is related to the "micro-o" family of vintage counterfeits because it was probably made by the same entity. It appears to be a VAM-13.
1843-O Counterfeit eagle. Produced using a copper planchet, which was gold-plated. Well circulated, VGish.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Counterfeit. Davignon 3-C
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
I agree (with both points).
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Specializing in 1854 and 1855 large FE patterns
<
RKKay,
Do you have any idea who might have made your electrotypes? Were their seams well-smoothed, or still evident?
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
How about some "mint state" vintage counterfeits ?
1944 [no-"P"] Henning Nickel (yes, this is how they looked right off the die):
1896-o Micro-o, VAM-4 (the single highest grade known for any VAM-listed vintage counterfeit):
A set of the various Henning counterfeit nickels would (hint....).
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
I found an 1853 gold dollar that is similar to the 1852 2 1/2 that was posted earlier in the thread
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I have no idea who made them. I don't recall if the scrawny eagle has a readily apparent seam. It is in an ICG slab noting that it is not genuine. The 1854 is pretty well smoothed over.
Specializing in 1854 and 1855 large FE patterns
<
Another of my favorites:
1853 3-cent from hand-cut dies. Surprisingly, it is not made of silver even though it has a perfect circulated silver look:
The reason why I asked is because the host coins were patterns, and this might allow one to guess who owned them (based on studying plates in old auction catalogs) and possibly who might have made the electrotypes.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Sorry. I have no idea. I just thought they were cool and went no further. Are you studying fake patterns?
Specializing in 1854 and 1855 large FE patterns
<
I have an interest in antique electrotypes (U. S. and British coins, the technology, and appearances in numismatic literature).
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
This is counterfeit. Not sure how old, probably a modern Chinese counterfeit.
1721 9 deniers. Referred to as a 'Louisiana Copper' in some 19th century auction catalogs, due to circulation in the Midwest. This piece, now raw, was removed from a PCGS slab (EF grade, deemed genuine). It is actually a deceptively well-made electrotype.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
The Micro-O Morgan counterfeits were monetary counterfeits, likely made in the early to mid 1930s when silver was about 25c an ounce. The higher percentage of silver, ie near or at sterling was likely due to not being able to adequately refine the silver with the equipment the forgers had. The great majority of the Micro-O coins are well circulated - as though they were aged/worn in tumblers or drums to give them the look of having circulated. As opposed to the Henning nickels which the Secret Service is said of have opinned that it likely cost Henning more to make than he benefited from them - ie he lost money - the Micro-O's are good enough that they fooled people for over half a century.
Contemporary Chinese counterfeit of a Netherlands Ducaton, nonsense date and legends. Chopmarked. Difficult to pin down a date of manufacture, anywhere from the 18th-19th centuries. “Imitation dollars” were made at Canton by individuals with permission of the officials. It is said that the Provincial Treasurer once ordered the silversmiths to make dollar pieces “like those made by the foreigners” in Ch’ien-lung’s reign (1735-1795). This order caused trouble. Profit led the silversmiths to use more alloy until they got to mixing five parts of alloy with eight parts silver. The result was that these coins soon depreciated in the market and subsequently orders were issued to prohibit private coining.
That one is very cool 👆
Wrong thread....Cheers, RickO
Mr. Carr:
Your 1896-O VAM 4 Morgan is... well... "incredible, amazing, jaw-dropping" doesn't come close to my reaction when I saw it. I've owned and examined many micro-Os for over 20 years, and some of them in high grades, but I've never seen one that comes remotely close to yours. I would very much love to hear about it.
-- Dennis
Both said to be mint made - purchased from JK.
Here is a counterfeit Morgan....I picked it up at a local antique shop...heavily discounted when I pointed out the fact that there were NO 1902CC Morgans...Cheers, RickO
Here is (what I believe to be) a 19th Century electrotype of a 1796 C-2 half cent that I purchased a few months ago. I'll never be able to own a real 1796, so I figured this would be a good way to fill the hole in the Dansco.
The Henning is one of several I own.
And then there is this 50-55 year old creation, apparently cast in lead or some kind of pot metal
Here are my 7070 of chinese Counterfeits, i don't believe that these can be characterized as "contemporary", but...;
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore...
One I found the other day whilst organising my collection. This is a 1950 apparently cast in lead and then chrome plated.
This should explain it.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Mr. Eureka,
That plot only offers part of a convincing explanation. Silver fell after WWI (relative to 1900) and didn't recover until midway into WWII. The counterfeiters did not lose money by using sterling silver, but they left plenty on the table. Why did they do that? Because they didn't want to have to refine scrap sterling silver? Was this issue a question of small numbers of blanks needed (driving up refining costs) or were the counterfeit dollars part of a money-laundering scheme? There are unanswered questions, in my opinion.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Wonder if you could do a 7070 of contemporary counterfeits. Early copper and silver might be more scare that the real coins themselves
Latin American Collection
This is a contemporary counterfeit half once owned by my great grandfather, a Civil War veteran. It is made of lead and is lighter than the real thing. Images by Gerry Fortin and listed in the LSCC Contemporary Counterfeit archives.
I have given some thought to doing just that. I think that recent coins would be the real problems.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]