@rachelstone said:
This is the 21st century. Preventing scammers from continually resubmitting altered cards until they pass really shouldn't be all that hard lol.
Ugh, I had hoped for more.
Even a 99% detection rate doesn't deter anything if the card is resubmitted 100 times. Just sayin'.
99 resubs X 7 dollars per card puts the submitter in the hole for $693 dollars.
This discussion is going to happen. The only question is whether it will happen here.
I can't speak to all of the deleted comments here, but the ones I am aware of are far more respectful than what is going on elsewhere. I'm relatively new to posting in this forum, but I came here because I wanted to see this side of the discussion. I truly want success for everyone here, not only because there seems to be a lot of good, honest people here but also because like most members of this forum, I have an interest in the success of the hobby and PSA.
The elephant in the room will be discussed. That's a fact. I'd rather see it discussed here. Wouldn't you?
I find it rather presumptuous of such a newcomer to be calling out the mods for "all of the deleted comments," especially when you will find multiple posts only a page back professing gratitude for allowing the discussion to continue. I have said many times that we do not all have to agree, but we must remain civil. However, this forum is also owned by Collectors Universe and I will not allow random trashing of the company to occur just because moderating such comments would upset a member. If I feel that snide and backhanded attacks are being made, even if I happen to interpret something incorrectly on occasion, I will delete the comment.
Todd Tobias - Grateful Collector - I focus on autographed American Football League sets, Fleer & Topps, 1960-1969, and lacrosse cards.
@brad31 said:
I think that Todd has let us voice our opinions on here and I feel like I was able to say what I wanted to on the matter.
As someone who was once "banned" for 3 months for making a post asking why PSA wouldn't do all in their power to hold a bad actor accountable, I have to agree with this. Prior to Todd it was done very differently.
And quite frankly if people cant stay within the relatively simple boundaries of being civil and not engaging in speculative character assassination of other stakeholders then I think its appropriate to handle it the way Todd is doing it.
@brad31 said:
I think that Todd has let us voice our opinions on here and I feel like I was able to say what I wanted to on the matter.
As someone who was once "banned" for 3 months for making a post asking why PSA wouldn't do all in their power to hold a bad actor accountable, I have to agree with this. Prior to Todd it was done very differently.
And quite frankly if people cant stay within the relatively simple boundaries of being civil and not engaging in speculative character assassination of other stakeholders then I think its appropriate to handle it the way Todd is doing it.
Yes, I do like to believe that we are on the same side. I assume that we are both collectors who want what is best for the hobby. However, if you have been reading the forum as long as you say, then you would likely have noticed that there really are not a lot of deleted comments or closed threads, at least not in comparison to days passed. And it is equally unproductive to say differently or that this subject is being kept from the discussions on this forum as I feel that I have been rather willing to let the discussion flow.
I am willing to forget it all and start over if you are. Welcome to the forum. My name is Todd Tobias, and I have been a collector nearly all of my life. While I have collected lots of things over the years, my main interests are autographed cards of the American Football League and lacrosse cards.
How about you?
Todd Tobias - Grateful Collector - I focus on autographed American Football League sets, Fleer & Topps, 1960-1969, and lacrosse cards.
Lots of good signed football cards to be had out of the Chicago area, but as you're a staunch NFL town, I don't have any of them. Still, the amount of sports history and number of legendary athletes that have played in Chicago is likely as high as any other city in the country. Lots of great stuff to be collected with that kind of focus!
Todd Tobias - Grateful Collector - I focus on autographed American Football League sets, Fleer & Topps, 1960-1969, and lacrosse cards.
It will be interesting to see how people respond at the National next week. My guess is most will be lined up strong at the PSA booth to get items graded or dropping items off at PWCC. Which is sad.
Wouldn't it be a good idea for "The National" to refund PWCC their fee and tell them to not show up given they appear to have admitted they are under investigation for felonies related to fraud? Why would they give them another forum to potentially sell altered cards? This is a no-brainer.
I'm baffled as to why ebay hasn't pulled their account yet too given ebay's legal exposure of knowing such a vendor is under investigation for fraudulent sales.
I actively collect Kirby Puckett. I have collections of Michael Jordan, Emmitt Smith, Roberto Clemente, Dwight Gooden, Tom Seaver, Errict Rhett and Evan Longoria.
I hope @JoeOrlando takes this with the constructive tone it is intended rather than a pile on and bashing. Todd - you’ve done a great job moderating this discussion and appreciate the platform for candor.
In Summer and Fall 2015, Chipotle faced a crisis of customer trust after several outbreaks of E. coli, salmonella, and other diseases.
The CEO went on the Today Show to discuss the company’s response in an interview that is still looked at and debated by PR firms and in business school case studies. Many feel he did not go far enough in the specifics as to what changes needed to be made. Others thought the dialog afterwards should proactively continue by Chipotle on social media. But he was universally applauded for the empathy he showed the customers, the transparency of what was being done and the sincerity of trying to do better.
Joe, I think you can relate to this crisis. I’ll ask you to watch the video below and compare the tone and content of this interview to the tone and content of your letter.
I think I speak for a lot of people when I say we want PSA to come through this better than before (check out CMG stock price chart last 5 years). But we also think you can do better in your response.
Please watch the video and give it another go. Transparency and empathy should be the focal points. We are vested and rooting for you.
@GreenSneakers said:
I hope @JoeOrlando takes this with the constructive tone it is intended rather than a pile on and bashing. Todd - you’ve done a great job moderating this discussion and appreciate the platform for candor.
In Summer and Fall 2015, Chipotle faced a crisis of customer trust after several outbreaks of E. coli, salmonella, and other diseases.
The CEO went on the Today Show to discuss the company’s response in an interview that is still looked at and debated by PR firms and in business school case studies. Many feel he did not go far enough in the specifics as to what changes needed to be made. Others thought the dialog afterwards should proactively continue by Chipotle on social media. But he was universally applauded for the empathy he showed the customers, the transparency of what was being done and the sincerity of trying to do better.
Joe, I think you can relate to this crisis. I’ll ask you to watch the video below and compare the tone and content of this interview to the tone and content of your letter.
I think I speak for a lot of people when I say we want PSA to come through this better than before (check out CMG stock price chart last 5 years). But we also think you can do better in your response.
Please watch the video and give it another go. Transparency and empathy should be the focal points. We are vested and rooting for you.
"Like most other industries, ours contains a fraction of people who choose to do nothing more than complain about how third-party systems are imperfect, instead of offering feasible or logical ways of making it better."
--Well there have been many, many feasible and logical ways to make things better but year after year they fall on deaf ears. Simple things like ways to improve turnaround times, ways to explain HOW grades/opinions have been determined by the TPG, ways to improve intake of collectibles, and many other examples of "offering feasible or logical ways of making it better" have been given and discussed. The pompous attitude projected to the customer seems to be catching up and not being handled very well.
@GreenSneakers said:
I hope @JoeOrlando takes this with the constructive tone it is intended rather than a pile on and bashing. Todd - you’ve done a great job moderating this discussion and appreciate the platform for candor.
In Summer and Fall 2015, Chipotle faced a crisis of customer trust after several outbreaks of E. coli, salmonella, and other diseases.
The CEO went on the Today Show to discuss the company’s response in an interview that is still looked at and debated by PR firms and in business school case studies. Many feel he did not go far enough in the specifics as to what changes needed to be made. Others thought the dialog afterwards should proactively continue by Chipotle on social media. But he was universally applauded for the empathy he showed the customers, the transparency of what was being done and the sincerity of trying to do better.
Joe, I think you can relate to this crisis. I’ll ask you to watch the video below and compare the tone and content of this interview to the tone and content of your letter.
I think I speak for a lot of people when I say we want PSA to come through this better than before (check out CMG stock price chart last 5 years). But we also think you can do better in your response.
Please watch the video and give it another go. Transparency and empathy should be the focal points. We are vested and rooting for you.
Thanks again.
+1
+2
The CEO appeared sincere, genuine and trustworthy! Good teaching video for sure. Thanks for sharing!
This discussion is going to happen. The only question is whether it will happen here.
I can't speak to all of the deleted comments here, but the ones I am aware of are far more respectful than what is going on elsewhere. I'm relatively new to posting in this forum, but I came here because I wanted to see this side of the discussion. I truly want success for everyone here, not only because there seems to be a lot of good, honest people here but also because like most members of this forum, I have an interest in the success of the hobby and PSA.
The elephant in the room will be discussed. That's a fact. I'd rather see it discussed here. Wouldn't you?
I find it rather presumptuous of such a newcomer to be calling out the mods for "all of the deleted comments," especially when you will find multiple posts only a page back professing gratitude for allowing the discussion to continue. I have said many times that we do not all have to agree, but we must remain civil. However, this forum is also owned by Collectors Universe and I will not allow random trashing of the company to occur just because moderating such comments would upset a member. If I feel that snide and backhanded attacks are being made, even if I happen to interpret something incorrectly on occasion, I will delete the comment.
I'm going to leave this link here, as people can find it whether it is here or elsewhere. However, I am deleting your comment because I don't feel the tone was appropriate. - Todd Tobias
Thanks for leaving the link.
A lot of opinion here and some fact mixed in.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
"While (name withheld) expresses confidence publicly, he has sold off more than 34% of his stock holdings in the last 10 months. On July 1, the CEO sold off 15.6% of his stock, a significant number when considering that, in September, he sold 22.8 percent of his stock."
"While (name withheld) expresses confidence publicly, he has sold off more than 34% of his stock holdings in the last 10 months. On July 1, the CEO sold off 15.6% of his stock, a significant number when considering that, in September, he sold 22.8 percent of his stock."
That is scary.
That is curious, I will agree.
It's not proof of anything though. The only way to make a profit from an investment is to sell it.
How about the authors claim that PWCC "sold millions of dollars worth of cards that were altered".
MILLIONS!
I wonder how he got this information? He offers nothing on how he comes to this conclusion.
Then he brings in the Clemente rookie as some evidence that the card market is being manipulated.
I would say that Clemente's cards are among the most volatile in the market, and his claim of "Once the top card is dumped, the pump-and-dump collectors move on and the market for that card deflates." is a pretty ridiculous claim.
Seems like he's the kind of writer that tosses gasoline on a fire.
So far ONE person has been indicated (not proven yet) that he has been altering some cards and doing it well enough to fool the TPGs. I am sure there are others.
This hobby has had it's issues for DECADES. TPGs were in fact created to be a tool to fight the altering of cards and downright lying about card condition.
I am not taking this particular issue lightly, neither am I predicting doom.
This is going to take a while.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@doubledragon said:
I believe the term used for selling off stock like that is "jumping ship".
That is not illegal, IF that's what he's doing!
I recently decided to retire early from my delivery business. My truck had started running poorly and smoking badly. My mechanic informed me I needed an engine overhaul.
I had spoken to my wife earlier this year, and we agreed that going thousands of dollars (more) into debt repairing the truck would be foolish. We were hoping that the truck would at least make it through the summer (most profitable part of the year) and then look at our options at the end of the year.
About a month after the truck died, the company I was buying my product from had major issues of their own and their investors decided not to put more cash into the company, it has just ceased operation.
Am I guilty of anything here?
I actually jokingly said that "I was the last rat off the sinking ship" to one of my buddies when discussing my decision to hang it up.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
Comments
……...and it's $693 revenue for the TPG.
Maybe after reviewing the "before" and "after" photos on the Blowout Forum, Joe will come up with a new tag line to replace "never get cheated".
I find it rather presumptuous of such a newcomer to be calling out the mods for "all of the deleted comments," especially when you will find multiple posts only a page back professing gratitude for allowing the discussion to continue. I have said many times that we do not all have to agree, but we must remain civil. However, this forum is also owned by Collectors Universe and I will not allow random trashing of the company to occur just because moderating such comments would upset a member. If I feel that snide and backhanded attacks are being made, even if I happen to interpret something incorrectly on occasion, I will delete the comment.
I stay away from the blowout threads because I got hit by a rock over there.
I think that Todd has let us voice our opinions on here and I feel like I was able to say what I wanted to on the matter.
As someone who was once "banned" for 3 months for making a post asking why PSA wouldn't do all in their power to hold a bad actor accountable, I have to agree with this. Prior to Todd it was done very differently.
And quite frankly if people cant stay within the relatively simple boundaries of being civil and not engaging in speculative character assassination of other stakeholders then I think its appropriate to handle it the way Todd is doing it.
Dave
Well said!
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
#1 John Hannah master set
Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, Dwight Evans, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
Yes, I do like to believe that we are on the same side. I assume that we are both collectors who want what is best for the hobby. However, if you have been reading the forum as long as you say, then you would likely have noticed that there really are not a lot of deleted comments or closed threads, at least not in comparison to days passed. And it is equally unproductive to say differently or that this subject is being kept from the discussions on this forum as I feel that I have been rather willing to let the discussion flow.
I am willing to forget it all and start over if you are. Welcome to the forum. My name is Todd Tobias, and I have been a collector nearly all of my life. While I have collected lots of things over the years, my main interests are autographed cards of the American Football League and lacrosse cards.
How about you?
Lots of good signed football cards to be had out of the Chicago area, but as you're a staunch NFL town, I don't have any of them. Still, the amount of sports history and number of legendary athletes that have played in Chicago is likely as high as any other city in the country. Lots of great stuff to be collected with that kind of focus!
If your name is Rachael, then I am Mickey Mouse. ALTS just can't stay away...
Hi Mickey. HGL will be along to welcome you soon.
Kris
My 1971 Topps adventure - Davis Men in Black
@HighGradeLegends ... Let's give people the benefit of the doubt. No need to be so harsh.
Wouldn't it be a good idea for "The National" to refund PWCC their fee and tell them to not show up given they appear to have admitted they are under investigation for felonies related to fraud? Why would they give them another forum to potentially sell altered cards? This is a no-brainer.
I'm baffled as to why ebay hasn't pulled their account yet too given ebay's legal exposure of knowing such a vendor is under investigation for fraudulent sales.
I actively collect Kirby Puckett. I have collections of Michael Jordan, Emmitt Smith, Roberto Clemente, Dwight Gooden, Tom Seaver, Errict Rhett and Evan Longoria.
Ebay makes too much money off of PWCC. They're probably waiting until the feds file charges, and then they'll pull the plug.
I hope @JoeOrlando takes this with the constructive tone it is intended rather than a pile on and bashing. Todd - you’ve done a great job moderating this discussion and appreciate the platform for candor.
In Summer and Fall 2015, Chipotle faced a crisis of customer trust after several outbreaks of E. coli, salmonella, and other diseases.
The CEO went on the Today Show to discuss the company’s response in an interview that is still looked at and debated by PR firms and in business school case studies. Many feel he did not go far enough in the specifics as to what changes needed to be made. Others thought the dialog afterwards should proactively continue by Chipotle on social media. But he was universally applauded for the empathy he showed the customers, the transparency of what was being done and the sincerity of trying to do better.
Joe, I think you can relate to this crisis. I’ll ask you to watch the video below and compare the tone and content of this interview to the tone and content of your letter.
I think I speak for a lot of people when I say we want PSA to come through this better than before (check out CMG stock price chart last 5 years). But we also think you can do better in your response.
Please watch the video and give it another go. Transparency and empathy should be the focal points. We are vested and rooting for you.
Thanks again.
+1
"Like most other industries, ours contains a fraction of people who choose to do nothing more than complain about how third-party systems are imperfect, instead of offering feasible or logical ways of making it better."
--Well there have been many, many feasible and logical ways to make things better but year after year they fall on deaf ears. Simple things like ways to improve turnaround times, ways to explain HOW grades/opinions have been determined by the TPG, ways to improve intake of collectibles, and many other examples of "offering feasible or logical ways of making it better" have been given and discussed. The pompous attitude projected to the customer seems to be catching up and not being handled very well.
+2
The CEO appeared sincere, genuine and trustworthy! Good teaching video for sure. Thanks for sharing!
Well said
Thanks for leaving the link.
A lot of opinion here and some fact mixed in.
"While (name withheld) expresses confidence publicly, he has sold off more than 34% of his stock holdings in the last 10 months. On July 1, the CEO sold off 15.6% of his stock, a significant number when considering that, in September, he sold 22.8 percent of his stock."
That is scary.
That is curious, I will agree.
It's not proof of anything though. The only way to make a profit from an investment is to sell it.
How about the authors claim that PWCC "sold millions of dollars worth of cards that were altered".
MILLIONS!
I wonder how he got this information? He offers nothing on how he comes to this conclusion.
Then he brings in the Clemente rookie as some evidence that the card market is being manipulated.
I would say that Clemente's cards are among the most volatile in the market, and his claim of "Once the top card is dumped, the pump-and-dump collectors move on and the market for that card deflates." is a pretty ridiculous claim.
Seems like he's the kind of writer that tosses gasoline on a fire.
So far ONE person has been indicated (not proven yet) that he has been altering some cards and doing it well enough to fool the TPGs. I am sure there are others.
This hobby has had it's issues for DECADES. TPGs were in fact created to be a tool to fight the altering of cards and downright lying about card condition.
I am not taking this particular issue lightly, neither am I predicting doom.
This is going to take a while.
That is not illegal, IF that's what he's doing!
I recently decided to retire early from my delivery business. My truck had started running poorly and smoking badly. My mechanic informed me I needed an engine overhaul.
I had spoken to my wife earlier this year, and we agreed that going thousands of dollars (more) into debt repairing the truck would be foolish. We were hoping that the truck would at least make it through the summer (most profitable part of the year) and then look at our options at the end of the year.
About a month after the truck died, the company I was buying my product from had major issues of their own and their investors decided not to put more cash into the company, it has just ceased operation.
Am I guilty of anything here?
I actually jokingly said that "I was the last rat off the sinking ship" to one of my buddies when discussing my decision to hang it up.
OK, I'm shutting this down. This has gone down the line of wild speculation. Done.