PWCC Blocked Me After my First and Only Return

I recently processed a Return to PWCC because I felt the PWCC Description was inaccurate based on the Actual Condition of the Card.

Over the last couple of years, I've probably made bids on their listings totaling about $15K to $25K (so pretty small I guess compared to some other larger customers). I won about $10K worth of items -- but the key for the listings I lost was that alot of times I was the 2nd Highest Bidder -- so even though I did not win, I helped them realize a higher selling price by being the 2nd Highest Bidder. I guess they no longer want my business.

The card I returned was an overgraded card by one of the TPG's. I pointed out the flaw and provided pictures as proof. Had they just listed the card as "TPG 9", I probably would have kept the card and handled it through sending it back to the TPG for a Review.

Because I trusted PWCC's ability to assess and comment appropriately on a card, I made the purchase. Here is their description of the card:

The offered "TPG 9" is simply stunning with glistening surfaces and clear imagery. Shows rock-solid corners with blemish free borders and wonderful registration. A sound investment commodity which commands attention.

What they missed (and the TPG also missed) was a surface wrinkle that ran the entire length of the card from top-to-bottom. 3.5 inches of a surface wrinkle that is barely noticeable except at a certain angle and under proper lighting. But once you see it, you cannot un-see it.

Well they accepted the return and gave me a full refund. But their advertised "Free Returns" actually came with a price tag --the cost was being banned from bidding on any of their future auctions.

So long PWCC...

p.s. I had set up an account for their Vault Service, but it appears I won't be needing that anymore...

«13

Comments

  • AFLfanAFLfan Posts: 283 mod

    I don't have any problem with the OP here as it is not slinging any mud, but rather just stating a case. Please, just do not let it devolve into something it does not need to be.

    Todd Tobias
    PSA Employee & Grateful Collector
    I focus on autographed American Football League sets, Fleer & Topps, 1960-1969, and vintage lacrosse cards.
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 23,409 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Did you give them a call before posting here?

    Mike



  • 1970s1970s Posts: 2,449 ✭✭✭✭

    I would have asked a reason why I was banned. It does not make sense that they would ban you because of a surface wrinkle that they or the TPG could not notice. That seems absurd that they would ban you for that, because as you said, they did accept the return. Nor am I accusing you of not telling the entire story. I am not. It just sounds strange that they would participate in such a business practice. That's all.

  • RookieHOFersRookieHOFers Posts: 705 ✭✭✭

    Actions speak louder than words.....

    Matt
    I collect: Mickey Mantle and 86 Fleer Basketball
  • PROMETHIUS88PROMETHIUS88 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭✭

    @AFLfan said:
    I don't have any problem with the OP here as it is not slinging any mud, but rather just stating a case. Please, just do not let it devolve into something it does not need to be.

    This is not related to this thread but after reading this, I had strong visions of seeing Todd at the National, sitting in front of a laptop feverishly monitoring the boards. Like the programmers "wired in" like in the movie "The Social Network" ignoring everything and everyone around him.
    I don't know if this is the case but I pray so hard this happens!

  • nam812nam812 Posts: 9,362 ✭✭✭

    Many a wrinkle has been soaked and spooned just to pass the grading process, then only to return later once it's been in the holder for a while.

    My 1910 Champions T218 set at 100% with a GPA of 5.047, and all 153 cards are scanned.
  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Stone193 said:
    Did you give them a call before posting here?

    To what end?

    Genuine question.

    Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest

  • DBesse27DBesse27 Posts: 447 ✭✭✭

    I’d say it’s pretty clear by now, via my posts in other threads, that I am no PWCC apologist. With that said, I will defend any company’s right to refuse business from any person for any reason. It might not be sound business practice to turn away cash, but it doesn’t mean that said business isn’t well within their rights in doing so. This is true of physical, brick & mortar stores and it’s true of online business enterprises as well. Sorry, I guess I understand why you’re frustrated, but to me PWCC did nothing wrong here. If they don’t want your money, that’s their prerogative.

    Yaz Master Set
    #1 Gino Cappelletti master set
    #1 John Hannah master set

    Also collecting:
    1964 & 68 Venezuelan Topps
    1974 Topps Red Sox
    Andre Tippett

  • 70ToppsFanatic70ToppsFanatic Posts: 2,029 ✭✭✭

    Here is their published return policy.

    I leave it to each of us to decide for ourselves if it is being applied fairly given what has been described.



    Dave
  • demondeacsdemondeacs Posts: 57 ✭✭

    Surface wrinkles rarely run the full length of the card.

    With vintage cards, there's a common print flaw where the edge's surface will end up with sort of a wavy texture that resembles a wrinkle . Chrome cards have a similar texture on their back side edges. PSA has never regarded that as a wrinkle with vintage or modern.

  • 70ToppsFanatic70ToppsFanatic Posts: 2,029 ✭✭✭

    Given the above policy, a 3.5 inch surface wrinkle only visible at a particular angle and the following description from the broker:

    The offered "TPG 9" is simply stunning with glistening surfaces and clear imagery. Shows rock-solid corners with blemish free borders and wonderful registration. A sound investment commodity which commands attention.

    It seems to me that a return is justified.

    The broker could have missed the issue, but if the surface wrinkle is there then the description certainly misrepresents the card.

    As for then deciding to block the purchaser from further activity, that is the broker’s perrogative but it seems a rather extreme decision given the situation that was described unless there was some additional interaction back-and-forth that also occurred which was not handled respectfully/professionally or something like that which was not mentioned in the posting.



    Dave
  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 981 ✭✭✭
    edited May 30, 2019 3:33PM

    I believe that banning you was a little extreme. I mean, if you return something to Wal Mart, they don't say "Hey, by the way, you can't shop here anymore".

  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 30, 2019 5:02PM

    @70ToppsFanatic said:
    Given the above policy, a 3.5 inch surface wrinkle only visible at a particular angle and the following description from the broker:

    The offered "TPG 9" is simply stunning with glistening surfaces and clear imagery. Shows rock-solid corners with blemish free borders and wonderful registration. A sound investment commodity which commands attention.

    It seems to me that a return is justified.

    The broker could have missed the issue, but if the surface wrinkle is there then the description certainly misrepresents the card.

    As for then deciding to block the purchaser from further activity, that is the broker’s perrogative but it seems a rather extreme decision given the situation that was described unless there was some additional interaction back-and-forth that also occurred which was not handled respectfully/professionally or something like that which was not mentioned in the posting.

    @DotStore

    Timing probably comes into play to here as I imagine you aren’t the only person looking over cards won at auction from the aforementioned house and following that course of action.

    Doesn’t make you feel better, I’m sure. Just another perspective.

    Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest

  • PROMETHIUS88PROMETHIUS88 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭✭

    @AFLfan said:

    @PROMETHIUS88 said:

    @AFLfan said:
    I don't have any problem with the OP here as it is not slinging any mud, but rather just stating a case. Please, just do not let it devolve into something it does not need to be.

    This is not related to this thread but after reading this, I had strong visions of seeing Todd at the National, sitting in front of a laptop feverishly monitoring the boards. Like the programmers "wired in" like in the movie "The Social Network" ignoring everything and everyone around him.
    I don't know if this is the case but I pray so hard this happens!

    > Now why would you wish that kind of misery upon little ole' me? ;-)

    Actually, I won't be at the National this year. I'll be in Canton for Johnny Robinson's Pro Football Hall of Fame induction!!!

    Because not all heroes wear capes, some monitor message boards!

  • MrHockeyMrHockey Posts: 535 ✭✭✭

    I'd either call them and speak with them, after which you will get unbanned. Or just move on. Or just use a different eBay account...

  • Rttrffg2012Rttrffg2012 Posts: 205 ✭✭✭

    This is not the first time I’ve heard a story about PWCC being aggressive with their return policy.

    That being said, they fall under ebay’s Umbrella...so return anything.

    I like pwcc and I buy/sell with them but they have been losing some big battles. They should be focusing on customer service right now.

  • What Nick said.

  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 23,409 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:

    @Stone193 said:
    Did you give them a call before posting here?

    To what end?

    Genuine question.

    Hiya Tim

    Just wondering?

    Mike



  • MLBdaysMLBdays Posts: 585 ✭✭✭✭✭

    RIP

  • DotStoreDotStore Posts: 181 ✭✭✭

    Hi Everyone,

    Thanks for your feedback, comments and questions. I will try to provide some more information and answer the questions that have been asked.

    These are in no particular order.

    1) This was not Buyer's Remorse. In fact, I was so happy when I received the card I was doing my happy dance - my wife thought I was nuts. About a few hours admiring / enjoying the card, I moved the card at a certain angle and my heart dropped as I saw something wrong. It actually took me some time to find the wrinkle again but once I knew where to look, I saw it every time I looked at the card.

    2) I did not call PWCC to ask them why they blocked me. I was upset and disappointed that they chose to block me. But as someone pointed out, that is their prerogative...

    3) when I received the full refund, I thought the process worked pretty good. There was a flaw with the card that made it not match their description, and they honored the return. Everything went smoothly. There was no back-and-forth anything or other shenanigans of any kind.

    4) I was impressed with how smoothly the return went and I was going to post about their integrity and give them kudos for doing the right thing (in my mind). But that night there were a few items I was watching and ready to bid on because they were ending (two of the items were 1980 Topps Bird/Johnson cards). I went to bid on one of them and found out I was blocked. Several cards sold for less than what I was prepared to pay. Dang it, I missed out on them and I am bummed about that.

    5) I have bought about 20 items from PWCC the last few years. Probably about $10K worth. Never had a return or complaint or anything. Never.

    6) I've been on eBay over 20 years. 800+ rating 100% Positive and have never had a negative rating as a buyer or seller.

    7) I've been a moderator of several forums so I know what it's like sometimes to try and understand different points of view. I strive to be respectful at all times. I try to keep a level head and try not to jump to conclusions before gathering all the facts. This one has me stumped as to why they blocked me. Unless they did not agree with the surface wrinkle. I will post a picture of the card to let you decide...

  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 23,409 ✭✭✭✭✭

    5) I have bought about 20 items from PWCC the last few years. Probably about $10K worth. Never had a return or complaint or anything. Never.

    This is just my opine.

    But, IMO, you deserved better from them.

    Mike



  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 3,026 ✭✭✭✭✭

    From the perspective of the OP it definitely does not seem fair that he was banned. I do understand how accepting returns is much more complicated for PWCC than a normal eBay seller because of the underlying consignor. As I mentioned in another thread, PWCC refused to auction an item I sent them because they did not feel the TPG grade was appropriate. I can imagine that that action was driven by a fear of a subsequent return.

  • DotStoreDotStore Posts: 181 ✭✭✭

    Here are a few pictures that show the 3.5 inch "wrinkle" It runs the entire length of the card top-to-bottom

  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 23,409 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I did a quick check of all the SGC cards sold by PWCC in the last few months.

    None of them show that "line" or "crease" - can't tell which it is?

    I would've definitely returned the card also.

    Mike



  • krisd3279krisd3279 Posts: 562 ✭✭✭

    That sucks it made it past the TPG and into the auction like that. It seems like they handled it well at first, but to block you seems a little reactionary to me. You were even ready to make some additional purchases. Sounds like they lost a good customer.

    Kris

    My 1971 Topps adventure - Davis Men in Black

  • MrHockeyMrHockey Posts: 535 ✭✭✭

    Not saying it is right, but many sellers I know auto-block buyers after a return because it indicates that they may be a “problem buyer” in the future. I wouldn’t take it too personally. It may be their internal company policy and some low-level person just following orders.

  • hyperchipper09hyperchipper09 Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭
    edited May 30, 2019 6:55PM

    I have seen that wrinkle/indent on a PSA 9 before. In January 2013 I picked up a 1984 PSA 9 Donruss Darryl Strawberry off eBay. Got the card and I was like...Wow, that's a 9? Ended up returning it and finding a different Straw 84 D. But I have seen that on a PSA 9 before. Dead center of the card, full length of the card.

    edit to add: Donruss

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 5,184 ✭✭✭✭

    That is too bad. I would give them a call inquiring if they would allow you to bid in the future. As someone suggested it might be an automatic block.

    Seems like a lose/lose situation as it stands.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • vols1vols1 Posts: 615 ✭✭✭
    edited May 30, 2019 8:19PM

    It appears to be a line in the foil not the cardboard. This might be there normal way of grading cards with 'lines'. You should contact the grading company first. We all know certain grading companies are more strict on foil/specialty cards than others. I would just resell the card and call it a day if your not happy with the card you bought.

  • gemintgemint Posts: 5,148 ✭✭✭

    I sent them a question asking some questions about past cards I purchased from them, including a $10k card. Usually they respond to my inquiries within hours. At this point in time...crickets.

  • demondeacsdemondeacs Posts: 57 ✭✭
    edited May 31, 2019 3:15AM

    @vols1 said:
    It appears to be a line in the foil not the cardboard. This might be there normal way of grading cards with 'lines'. You should contact the grading company first. We all know certain grading companies are more strict on foil/specialty cards than others. I would just resell the card and call it a day if your not happy with the card you bought.

    This. Similar to a refractor line in chrome cards, which often receive 9's overall if the rest of the card is clean.

    A true wrinkle would never form as a perfectly straight line spanning the entire length of the card.

  • rcmb3220rcmb3220 Posts: 757 ✭✭✭

    If I was the seller I would have been set on blocking you until I got the card back and realized you were right. Definitely not worthy of a block.

    Dane

  • 60sfan60sfan Posts: 284 ✭✭

    @KendallCat said:
    Wow. That wrinkle looks rough. How is it PWCC always states we are not TPG, and then on the other hand they are labeling every other card HE, PQ, A, S, E.... it appears that they like grading if they agree, and when they don’t they step in and add a grade themselves. Sorry to hear they banned you for a return for a legit reason.

    KC

    Will the TPG grader reimburse PWCC for this card?

  • softparadesoftparade Posts: 8,077 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 31, 2019 6:43AM

    depressing all around. Glad you got your money back. I don't do business with PWCC.

  • originalisbestoriginalisbest Posts: 5,587 ✭✭✭

    @gemint said:
    I sent them a question asking some questions about past cards I purchased from them, including a $10k card. Usually they respond to my inquiries within hours. At this point in time...crickets.

    I hope you're able to get a satisfactory response. But... well, I won't say more at this time. Better just sit back and observe things as they unfold.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭✭

    you were correct in returning that card.

    Its seems at this point in time, PWCC probably should be treating their remaining customers extra special nice and not blocking them.

    just saying.

  • lawyer05lawyer05 Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭
    edited May 31, 2019 7:29AM

    for a moment i thought you had bought a card graded by TPG :D

  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 3,026 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lawyer05 said:
    i am sorry, can someone tell me what is TPG. Thanks.... sorry for the newbie question....

    Third Party Grading company.

  • prgsdwprgsdw Posts: 380 ✭✭✭
  • lawyer05lawyer05 Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭

    @prgsdw said:
    TPG = Third Party Grader.

    Thank you

  • lawyer05lawyer05 Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭

    I sent 150 cards to PWCC,
    One of them was sent in error, they would not send it back. Strike one
    They grouped 1/2 of the 150 cards in 3 lots and would not listen to emails and ungroup. Strike two and three.
    I send my doubles when i upgrade to COMC now .

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭✭

    @lawyer05 said:
    I sent 150 cards to PWCC,
    One of them was sent in error, they would not send it back. Strike one
    They grouped 1/2 of the 150 cards in 3 lots and would not listen to emails and ungroup. Strike two and three.
    I send my doubles when i upgrade to COMC now .

    the would not send back a card you sent in error?

  • RoflesRofles Posts: 208 ✭✭✭

    @lawyer05 said:
    I sent 150 cards to PWCC,
    One of them was sent in error, they would not send it back. Strike one
    They grouped 1/2 of the 150 cards in 3 lots and would not listen to emails and ungroup. Strike two and three.
    I send my doubles when i upgrade to COMC now .

    Is COMC an auction company?

  • originalisbestoriginalisbest Posts: 5,587 ✭✭✭

    @Rofles said:

    @lawyer05 said:
    I sent 150 cards to PWCC,
    One of them was sent in error, they would not send it back. Strike one
    They grouped 1/2 of the 150 cards in 3 lots and would not listen to emails and ungroup. Strike two and three.
    I send my doubles when i upgrade to COMC now .

    Is COMC an auction company?

    Not sure they're an auction company so much as a giant B/S/T board, but I've never used their site, so take my take with a grain of salt.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭✭

    @Rofles said:

    @lawyer05 said:
    I sent 150 cards to PWCC,
    One of them was sent in error, they would not send it back. Strike one
    They grouped 1/2 of the 150 cards in 3 lots and would not listen to emails and ungroup. Strike two and three.
    I send my doubles when i upgrade to COMC now .

    Is COMC an auction company?

    no, COMC is a company that you send cards into and they scan and post them for you on their own website and also link them to ebay for buy it now. they charge a per card fee as well as storage fees. when your card sell, they package and ship. All you have to do is ship your cards to COMC, price them and they do the rest.

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