As if a glutton for punishment I decided to dive into the world of ANACS problem labeled slabs as well, thank @Lew for messaging me a question about them. On cue my "OCD" kicks in and I spend way too much time digging...
In any case here is a link to what I came up with.
I have a couple problem coins in ANACS holders, one of them is not included in the list you linked to. It's pretty much identical to Gen P6, except that there is no barcode.
@MasonG
That is not unusual, if additional info such a VAM, type or some such thing was needed the barcode was left off to fit the additional info. It was done on problem and no problem coins.
That's up towards the end of the SWH (3.2 or 3.3 million or so). And using the 3rd ANACS/Amos Hologram.
I guess it shows fair consistency across all the SWH in dropping the bar code if they need the room.
This is different than 68Beemer's (or whatever his userid is :-)) collection of 3xxxxx (300K) slabs where the 3rd line is blank and the cert# is on the 4th instead of the cert# on 3 and the bar code on 4.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@BStrauss3 , Are you talking about this? The spacing between the lines, 1st shows larger space above barcode, 2nd shows larger space below grade and 3rd looks like approx equal spacing.
@86Saab said: @MasonG
That is not unusual, if additional info such a VAM, type or some such thing was needed the barcode was left off to fit the additional info. It was done on problem and no problem coins.
That's interesting. I would have thought the barcode would be more important than that. Thanks for the info!
I can't remember how many old white ANA and ANACS holders went in to our host for crossover...never had a problem getting them into PCGS plastic...most were really close on the grades too. I wish they would go back to that size and design verses the modern gold label ones.
oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's
The difference in the labels has the look of different printer (drivers) of the era.
Apple printers used postscript as the printer language, but they cost at least one and often two organs. If your lawyer used apple printers, you ran away because s/he charged $10 an hour more than anyone else.
"Normal" people suffered with HP printers. Each new printer, each iteration of the printer driver was always a little different in character's look, spacing, etc. So when you changed printers, you often had to make small changes to the documents to make them come out right.
Heck, which side was UP changed. I still have pieces of paper where I wrote UP & FRONT & BOTTOM & FRONT on the page and then ran it through the printer so I could see which orientation(s) to use for two-sided printing.
I can imagine a place like ANACS having a couple of print stations for slab labels and they printed slightly differently. Not enough to matter, just enough to confuse us 30 years later. If they swapped one out for a newer printer, six months or a year later, it would be a tiny bit different still.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I can imagine a place like ANACS having a couple of print stations for slab labels and they printed slightly differently. Not enough to matter, just enough to confuse us 30 years later. If they swapped one out for a newer printer, six months or a year later, it would be a tiny bit different still.
If it is the case that reholdered coins kept the old cert number then that could also explain why the slab I mentioned earlier in the thread was the later larger white holder but had the earlier cert number of 392283. However if that was the case why are there no later holders with with lettered prefix cert numbers?
I just got my hands on a scarce Gen/Type 9 photo cert and found the following details that I hadn't seen mentioned anywhere. Not that I've seen any other Type 9's as none are present in @bob48, Robert Paul's history. 1. It is narrower than Type 10 5" vs 5 3/16" 2. Font and capitalization is same as Type 8 while Type 10 uses a different font and all capital letters for "NO. & REGISTERED TO:"
Can anyone confirm these differences are normal or if there is overlap between them?
@BStrauss3 while the sleeve it and the coin were in for years was big enough it does appear under the loop that the right side was trimmed near perfectly, maybe it was done at ANACS as the photo is still off center to the left and would have looked very off if another 3/16" remained on the right. The left does not show any trimming. I guess I will have to wait until I find another or someone else who has one confirms the size.
Well I guess I have answered my own question to my earlier post. I failed to look closer at a cert I lost out on recently and I failed to look closer at the other certs listed as T10's in Robert Paul's ANACS history. If the 1884 CC GSA BJR107 is a T10 & the other 1884 CC is a T10 or a T9 then it appears that T9's & T10's exist in most if not all combinations...count me shocked if we've found inconsistencies between "slab" generations!
Because that's what they chose to use so it wouldn't conflict with another block. I've seen #s up to 300 trillion used for some of the mass TV grading stuff.
Most of the oddball blocks used to not return when you verified them. I've been working with ANACS'. database/web developer on these this summer/fall
We've unlocked everything I've found missing. If you find something else, I'll be happy to pass it on.
I really feel sorry for my friend... Working with data of many different 'generations' and trying to build one query sucks.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@BStrauss3 or anyone else who might know. Are you familiar with the following photo. Seller claims it was a ANACS Sample used by ANACS for reference. If so I may buy it for the right price...
@86Saab I am not aware that ANACS had a reference collection, but equally no knowledge that they didn't.
That said, this specific example seems unlikely.
Reference examples would be more likely in flips so they could be viewed than locked away in a Capital Plastics holder.
And, I wouldn't use a customer's submission.
I think it more likely that the submitter did this - either as part of an in-house collection or as satire... (Can you believe that THIS is what ANACS is calling 55/55?????)
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@BStrauss3, I wish I had a better photo, however even like this an AU55/55 seems a bit conservative. For now I will have to pass on it as I think the asking price of $200 is way to high for this. Maybe if it was proven to be a true ANACS sample it would be worth it.
The seller had another one with a similar name which made me think it was plausible that these were samples... The Silver Shop & A Silver Shop?
Enjoyed reading this entire thread. I've only recently gotten back into collecting again after a rather long hiatus. Interestingly, (especially after reading all these posts and others) im finding I am becoming more interested in the holders than the coins themselves. It is all quite fascinating and I am learning quite a bit.
I've recently purchased a couple interesting anacs slabs. One is an old anacs barcode slab with a rather low serial number and the other (I believe) is the "mysterious" generation 3 anacs slab that 86saab has been trying to learn more about. I say "I think" this is the generation 3 because in this case it has an extra line of information referring to the double die. I've noticed anacs has often dropped the barcode when extra space was necessary. So I guess I'm asking if anybody can tell me if this is a gen 3 and also if the other barcoded slab with only 4 digits is somewhat unusual. It's the first one of this kind that I have seen. Thanks
@Jotull16 Yes, both of those come AFTER the ANA sold ANACS to Amos Press who continued the two-letter four-number slabs (using some different letter combination) for several years. They then started with all numerics. In doing so they filled in the prefixes that were not used for conversion of XX to nn. "0", "7", etc. (I listed them upstream).
Somewhere in there, they started with the bar codes, clearly used them for 27nnnn, 28nnnn, and then apparently stopped for a little while and then restarted using them, which is the set that @86Saab is interested in. Your 300180 seems smack in the known range.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@86Saab Not sure if you have that Washington catalogued in your directory or not. As mentioned, I'm pretty sure that's the Gen 3 you are describing. Thanks a bunch for your work on this and starting this thread. And thank you @BStrauss3 for your reply as well. Interesting stuff.
@Jotull16 Thanks for letting me know, I missed that one when it was listed and just saw it earlier today when scanning through sold listings. It's added to my list now. I've been collecting on and off but mostly on for about 30 years myself and have become more interested in the holders myself, maybe not more than the coins, I'd say 50/50 on average.
Your 1939 is definitely the Gen 3 based on the number and font. That makes 35 cataloged since 2015 and another approx 30 found in auction listings from 2000-2014. Nice find and I'm glad you found this thread interesting and useful. I've learned some new stuff as well, @BStrauss3 has been a trove of information.
Thank you (and every one else who contributed) for taking the time to put together the web page and this thread. Before I left for a long hiatus back in 2013, I thought documenting the ANA/ANACS "generations" similar to what had already been done by Condor for PCGS would be a worthwhile (albeit difficult) project. What you have completed far exceeds what I was thinking at that time. This is just an outstanding reference!
I will look though some of my old ANACS Slabs and see if I can contribute to any sequencing and change over information. I had three older photo certs (my memory would say they are either the 8/9/10 types), but I have not seen them in years so I'm not sure they still exist with me. I'll have to look.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
@burfle23 That would be a problem gen I called P6.6, like other generations of small white holders it is seen with and without barcodes depending on the amount of info added to the label. The font is different than what I'm used to seeing, and it looks like they put it in bold. While unusual it is not particularly surprising as font variations do occur on other ANACS generations. I would assume it happened when tech or software was changed or updated. @BStrauss3 would know better than me about that.
@pursuitofliberty Thank you for the for the compliment, I'm glad you find value in it. I enjoyed putting it together and appreciate all the help and advice I got from members especially from @BStrauss3 and the great work by @bob48 on the photo certs.
Speaking of photo certs, I found a new variety of the Type 3 cert, at least new to me. It would be one of the last T3's produced, it has a rear pasted label like the Type 4.0. I added it to the album as Type 3.1 but here is a pix of it. It's listed on eBay now but price is too rich for me.
I don't think these were before grading, there are E-nnnn-X certs from Colorado with grades. In fact, your preso up thread has one - E-xxxx-G - from 12/1980 (Type 3). It was just optional at the time.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@86Saab said: @burfle23 That would be a problem gen I called P6.6, like other generations of small white holders it is seen with and without barcodes depending on the amount of info added to the label. The font is different than what I'm used to seeing, and it looks like they put it in bold. While unusual it is not particularly surprising as font variations do occur on other ANACS generations. I would assume it happened when tech or software was changed or updated. @BStrauss3 would know better than me about that.
Thank you @86Saab, I have been told this is a counterfeit holder which would be the 1st ANACS one I have seen. I have sent a note to my contact there for verification.
@burfle23 It is possible that it is a counterfeit, I've not seen one before, maybe @BStrauss3 would have some input on it. It would explain the font difference but like I said ANACS fonts did vary at times. If it is counterfeit I'd be inclined to say that it would have value in and of itself like the old rattler counterfeits. While I could be wrong, to me it would make more sense to make a problem free counterfeit rather than a problem one.
@burfle23 ( @86Saab ) that one 2.9M is very very late in the Amos SWH days. Might even be after the sale to Anderson before they rolled out the blue slant tops.
I call it the Blue Mountains label (for obvious reasons). I have some suspicions that they kept the last of the SWH around for problem coins and used a separate block of cert#s - maybe so as not to have lots of nasty cleaned coins in their nice new holders. Nothing to back it up, however, I never mined that part of the ANACS database (my interest is the low cert#s and the XXnnnn ranges). It's just that I've seen a lot of the blue mountains in what seems a small part of the range.
You are also correct that's a different font (aspect ratio) than we've seen before. Definitely doesn't look right. It matches the database, but there's no photo, so it could just be forgers using a "good" one from the database. The bar code doesn't seem to scan.
The earliest date on a graded paper certificate should be 3-1-79, though I won’t swear there isn’t a 2-28-79.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@86Saab
I have three ANACS Slab Generation 3 holders.
S/N
300288 1961-D 10c MS-64,
301175 1979-S 1c PF66R,
301811 1978-D 50C MS65
All fit into your serial number range.
Very nice job on your ANACS Slab Generation article, I have saved and printed it.
Just one typo I saw on the appendix fig 1 your serial number is short, 25228 should be 250228
And I have listed both type 3's in there as this could come with the grade or not. (Same Label)
@bob48 Thank you! I'll add those gen 3's to my census. Typo fixed. What's the chance you can post photo's of those 3 Gen 3's?
@1peter1223 You're welcome! As for the Type 1 cert, I will throw my two cents out but would like to know the opinions of some of the others here. My opinion is that the Type 1 should not be as rare as the NGC & PCGS 1.0's considering that it was produced for about 4 years and in greater numbers. However given that it was 44 years ago when it was discontinued and that you would have to keep the coin and certificate together for 44-48 years and since they were ungraded, many where likely sent in for slabbing in later years. Likely many certs were tossed or lost over the years. So, I can't imagine a great many survived until today. Also as I understand it, most of the coins "certified" were rare coins because of the influx of counterfeits so I would think that makes it even more likely that these went sent in for slabbing and grading when it came available. Again this is just my opinion based on random data bopping around in my brain and a little reasoning. So as an assumption and I know how dangerous assuming is, I would say it is very possible that the Type 1 is as scarce as the NGC & PCGS Gen 1.0's but they technically shouldn't be. I hope that some others reading this add their opinions as well.
I missed the 2019 dialog, but this is good stuff. When I click on the ANACS barcode link I get a, "nope, not here ..." message.
Is there a current link?
I am attaching 3 "oddballs" for your thoughts. I somewhere came to believe the first pic is from a TV/Mass Marketing effort. The second one can be found right now on eBay (link below). I had never seen it before.
As for the 4 you pictured
1. That was my understanding as well,
2. The yellow label is scarce and was used around 1991/1992 I named it Gen P4 (Problem version of ANACS gen 4),
3. Fonts vary widely I've noticed after gen 3, while some are probably more scarce than others would take massive time and effort over years to catalog them all and that's not a can of worms I want to open!
4. Very nice gen 1!
@JeffersonFrog EXnnnn are interesting because those are the cross-over between ANACS/ANA and ANACS/Amos - one of two-letter combination in use at the time.
I've posted this before, as part of my effort to nail down the cross-over point. EX1867 is just a little earlier than the ANACS/ANA I have.
ANACS swh / ANA EX1885
ANACS swh / Amos EX7555
My data is better for RE:
Missing from my picture is
ANACS swh / ANA RE3273
If nothing else, I'm going to steal your picture :-)
I need a better shot of the 1884-O in the "TV Grading ANACS" slab. The cert# should resolve. I worked quite a bit with the ANACS Web/Database developer to unlock several areas of the database that had been hiding behind null queries.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Comments
As if a glutton for punishment I decided to dive into the world of ANACS problem labeled slabs as well, thank @Lew for messaging me a question about them. On cue my "OCD" kicks in and I spend way too much time digging...
In any case here is a link to what I came up with.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1bXsC1n3s1fLVAoxQyQTivDXlmaUUv-oFADkbwUGXIfs/edit?usp=sharing
Enjoy.
I have a couple problem coins in ANACS holders, one of them is not included in the list you linked to. It's pretty much identical to Gen P6, except that there is no barcode.
@MasonG
That is not unusual, if additional info such a VAM, type or some such thing was needed the barcode was left off to fit the additional info. It was done on problem and no problem coins.
Great thread
BHNC #203
Here is my Gen P6.6 without bar code.
Looks like S86Saab is correct -- bar code is left off to fit in third line of printing.
That's up towards the end of the SWH (3.2 or 3.3 million or so). And using the 3rd ANACS/Amos Hologram.
I guess it shows fair consistency across all the SWH in dropping the bar code if they need the room.
This is different than 68Beemer's (or whatever his userid is :-)) collection of 3xxxxx (300K) slabs where the 3rd line is blank and the cert# is on the 4th instead of the cert# on 3 and the bar code on 4.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@BStrauss3 , Are you talking about this? The spacing between the lines, 1st shows larger space above barcode, 2nd shows larger space below grade and 3rd looks like approx equal spacing.
Also I found the highest numbered SWH being just in the 4 millions.
That's interesting. I would have thought the barcode would be more important than that. Thanks for the info!
I can't remember how many old white ANA and ANACS holders went in to our host for crossover...never had a problem getting them into PCGS plastic...most were really close on the grades too. I wish they would go back to that size and design verses the modern gold label ones.
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@86Saab thought I replied, but guess I didn't...
The difference in the labels has the look of different printer (drivers) of the era.
Apple printers used postscript as the printer language, but they cost at least one and often two organs. If your lawyer used apple printers, you ran away because s/he charged $10 an hour more than anyone else.
"Normal" people suffered with HP printers. Each new printer, each iteration of the printer driver was always a little different in character's look, spacing, etc. So when you changed printers, you often had to make small changes to the documents to make them come out right.
Heck, which side was UP changed. I still have pieces of paper where I wrote UP & FRONT & BOTTOM & FRONT on the page and then ran it through the printer so I could see which orientation(s) to use for two-sided printing.
I can imagine a place like ANACS having a couple of print stations for slab labels and they printed slightly differently. Not enough to matter, just enough to confuse us 30 years later. If they swapped one out for a newer printer, six months or a year later, it would be a tiny bit different still.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@cecropiamoth I am starting to wonder if your NJxxxx slab is a reholder by Amos of an originally ANA slab.
I have been watching fleaBay for the last few months and have seen only ANA slabs with NJ, all the way up to NJ9992.
Thoughts?
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@BStrauss3 said:
That makes sense and answers some questions.
Just ran across this in my searches...I haven't seen a CD prefix listed in an "Amos" slab...
https://coins.ha.com/itm/liberty-nickels/nickels/1899-5c-pr64-anacs-ngc-census-133-259-pcgs-population-173-226-mintage-2-031-numismedia-wsl-price-for-problem-fre/a/131417-22758.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515
I'm wondering the same question I came to with the NJ holders that it's a reholder.
I'm pretty comfortable saying that for the nj's because I've seen ANA upto 9992
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
If it is the case that reholdered coins kept the old cert number then that could also explain why the slab I mentioned earlier in the thread was the later larger white holder but had the earlier cert number of 392283. However if that was the case why are there no later holders with with lettered prefix cert numbers?
I just got my hands on a scarce Gen/Type 9 photo cert and found the following details that I hadn't seen mentioned anywhere. Not that I've seen any other Type 9's as none are present in @bob48, Robert Paul's history.
1. It is narrower than Type 10 5" vs 5 3/16"
2. Font and capitalization is same as Type 8 while Type 10 uses a different font and all capital letters for "NO. & REGISTERED TO:"
Can anyone confirm these differences are normal or if there is overlap between them?
@86Saab regarding the narrower size, what's the chance that somebody trimmed a little off the sides to make it fit.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@BStrauss3 while the sleeve it and the coin were in for years was big enough it does appear under the loop that the right side was trimmed near perfectly, maybe it was done at ANACS as the photo is still off center to the left and would have looked very off if another 3/16" remained on the right. The left does not show any trimming. I guess I will have to wait until I find another or someone else who has one confirms the size.
Well I guess I have answered my own question to my earlier post. I failed to look closer at a cert I lost out on recently and I failed to look closer at the other certs listed as T10's in Robert Paul's ANACS history. If the 1884 CC GSA BJR107 is a T10 & the other 1884 CC is a T10 or a T9 then it appears that T9's & T10's exist in most if not all combinations...count me shocked if we've found inconsistencies between "slab" generations!
Back on Oct 17 86Saab had a photo of a high number (4000656) old ANACS problem holder.
Here is a higher number 4005471
Database shows 4005999 is also a details coin, but 4006000 is straight graded
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Something suspicious with this high number problem holder.
Anyone have an idea why this would be 70 million??
Because that's what they chose to use so it wouldn't conflict with another block. I've seen #s up to 300 trillion used for some of the mass TV grading stuff.
Most of the oddball blocks used to not return when you verified them. I've been working with ANACS'. database/web developer on these this summer/fall
We've unlocked everything I've found missing. If you find something else, I'll be happy to pass it on.
I really feel sorry for my friend... Working with data of many different 'generations' and trying to build one query sucks.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@BStrauss3 or anyone else who might know. Are you familiar with the following photo. Seller claims it was a ANACS Sample used by ANACS for reference. If so I may buy it for the right price...
@86Saab I am not aware that ANACS had a reference collection, but equally no knowledge that they didn't.
That said, this specific example seems unlikely.
Reference examples would be more likely in flips so they could be viewed than locked away in a Capital Plastics holder.
And, I wouldn't use a customer's submission.
I think it more likely that the submitter did this - either as part of an in-house collection or as satire... (Can you believe that THIS is what ANACS is calling 55/55?????)
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@BStrauss3, I wish I had a better photo, however even like this an AU55/55 seems a bit conservative. For now I will have to pass on it as I think the asking price of $200 is way to high for this. Maybe if it was proven to be a true ANACS sample it would be worth it.
The seller had another one with a similar name which made me think it was plausible that these were samples... The Silver Shop & A Silver Shop?
Enjoyed reading this entire thread. I've only recently gotten back into collecting again after a rather long hiatus. Interestingly, (especially after reading all these posts and others) im finding I am becoming more interested in the holders than the coins themselves. It is all quite fascinating and I am learning quite a bit.
I've recently purchased a couple interesting anacs slabs. One is an old anacs barcode slab with a rather low serial number and the other (I believe) is the "mysterious" generation 3 anacs slab that 86saab has been trying to learn more about. I say "I think" this is the generation 3 because in this case it has an extra line of information referring to the double die. I've noticed anacs has often dropped the barcode when extra space was necessary. So I guess I'm asking if anybody can tell me if this is a gen 3 and also if the other barcoded slab with only 4 digits is somewhat unusual. It's the first one of this kind that I have seen. Thanks
@Jotull16 Yes, both of those come AFTER the ANA sold ANACS to Amos Press who continued the two-letter four-number slabs (using some different letter combination) for several years. They then started with all numerics. In doing so they filled in the prefixes that were not used for conversion of XX to nn. "0", "7", etc. (I listed them upstream).
Somewhere in there, they started with the bar codes, clearly used them for 27nnnn, 28nnnn, and then apparently stopped for a little while and then restarted using them, which is the set that @86Saab is interested in. Your 300180 seems smack in the known range.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@86Saab Not sure if you have that Washington catalogued in your directory or not. As mentioned, I'm pretty sure that's the Gen 3 you are describing. Thanks a bunch for your work on this and starting this thread. And thank you @BStrauss3 for your reply as well. Interesting stuff.
@Jotull16 Thanks for letting me know, I missed that one when it was listed and just saw it earlier today when scanning through sold listings. It's added to my list now. I've been collecting on and off but mostly on for about 30 years myself and have become more interested in the holders myself, maybe not more than the coins, I'd say 50/50 on average.
Your 1939 is definitely the Gen 3 based on the number and font. That makes 35 cataloged since 2015 and another approx 30 found in auction listings from 2000-2014. Nice find and I'm glad you found this thread interesting and useful. I've learned some new stuff as well, @BStrauss3 has been a trove of information.
My oldest.
@relicsncoins
Very Cool! Some day I hope to find myself a Type 1 cert. I can't imagine too many still exist.
Where does this one fit in the sequence?
Thanks!
@86Saab @BStrauss3
Wow! What a great resource!!
Thank you (and every one else who contributed) for taking the time to put together the web page and this thread. Before I left for a long hiatus back in 2013, I thought documenting the ANA/ANACS "generations" similar to what had already been done by Condor for PCGS would be a worthwhile (albeit difficult) project. What you have completed far exceeds what I was thinking at that time. This is just an outstanding reference!
I will look though some of my old ANACS Slabs and see if I can contribute to any sequencing and change over information. I had three older photo certs (my memory would say they are either the 8/9/10 types), but I have not seen them in years so I'm not sure they still exist with me. I'll have to look.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
@burfle23 That would be a problem gen I called P6.6, like other generations of small white holders it is seen with and without barcodes depending on the amount of info added to the label. The font is different than what I'm used to seeing, and it looks like they put it in bold. While unusual it is not particularly surprising as font variations do occur on other ANACS generations. I would assume it happened when tech or software was changed or updated. @BStrauss3 would know better than me about that.
@pursuitofliberty Thank you for the for the compliment, I'm glad you find value in it. I enjoyed putting it together and appreciate all the help and advice I got from members especially from @BStrauss3 and the great work by @bob48 on the photo certs.
Speaking of photo certs, I found a new variety of the Type 3 cert, at least new to me. It would be one of the last T3's produced, it has a rear pasted label like the Type 4.0. I added it to the album as Type 3.1 but here is a pix of it. It's listed on eBay now but price is too rich for me.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1861-1-Indian-Princess-Gold-Dollar-with-Rare-ANACS-Photo-Cert/233644875612?hash=item366651df5c:g:MnUAAOSwqzlfAFOn
@86Saab - I saw that also - problem is it's both beat up & an expensive coin. And a seller with a 1 rating.
And somebody we know has this one E-0007-H from a few months earlier for sale, https://www.ebay.com/itm/153992212853
I don't think these were before grading, there are E-nnnn-X certs from Colorado with grades. In fact, your preso up thread has one - E-xxxx-G - from 12/1980 (Type 3). It was just optional at the time.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Thank you @86Saab, I have been told this is a counterfeit holder which would be the 1st ANACS one I have seen. I have sent a note to my contact there for verification.
@burfle23 It is possible that it is a counterfeit, I've not seen one before, maybe @BStrauss3 would have some input on it. It would explain the font difference but like I said ANACS fonts did vary at times. If it is counterfeit I'd be inclined to say that it would have value in and of itself like the old rattler counterfeits. While I could be wrong, to me it would make more sense to make a problem free counterfeit rather than a problem one.
@burfle23 ( @86Saab ) that one 2.9M is very very late in the Amos SWH days. Might even be after the sale to Anderson before they rolled out the blue slant tops.
I call it the Blue Mountains label (for obvious reasons). I have some suspicions that they kept the last of the SWH around for problem coins and used a separate block of cert#s - maybe so as not to have lots of nasty cleaned coins in their nice new holders. Nothing to back it up, however, I never mined that part of the ANACS database (my interest is the low cert#s and the XXnnnn ranges). It's just that I've seen a lot of the blue mountains in what seems a small part of the range.
You are also correct that's a different font (aspect ratio) than we've seen before. Definitely doesn't look right. It matches the database, but there's no photo, so it could just be forgers using a "good" one from the database. The bar code doesn't seem to scan.
https://anacs.com/Verify/CertVerification.aspx?cert=2951029
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Very Good info here, I just keep learning more and more about ANACS ANA/Amos slabs.
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Very nice thread going here. After reading it, I checked on my coins. Apparently I am working on a straight of goldies.
At this point, if anyone has a coin in this sequence, I am unwillingly interested...
The earliest date on a graded paper certificate should be 3-1-79, though I won’t swear there isn’t a 2-28-79.
@86Saab
I have three ANACS Slab Generation 3 holders.
S/N
300288 1961-D 10c MS-64,
301175 1979-S 1c PF66R,
301811 1978-D 50C MS65
All fit into your serial number range.
Very nice job on your ANACS Slab Generation article, I have saved and printed it.
Just one typo I saw on the appendix fig 1 your serial number is short, 25228 should be 250228
And I have listed both type 3's in there as this could come with the grade or not. (Same Label)
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@bob48 Thank you! I'll add those gen 3's to my census. Typo fixed. What's the chance you can post photo's of those 3 Gen 3's?
@1peter1223 You're welcome! As for the Type 1 cert, I will throw my two cents out but would like to know the opinions of some of the others here. My opinion is that the Type 1 should not be as rare as the NGC & PCGS 1.0's considering that it was produced for about 4 years and in greater numbers. However given that it was 44 years ago when it was discontinued and that you would have to keep the coin and certificate together for 44-48 years and since they were ungraded, many where likely sent in for slabbing in later years. Likely many certs were tossed or lost over the years. So, I can't imagine a great many survived until today. Also as I understand it, most of the coins "certified" were rare coins because of the influx of counterfeits so I would think that makes it even more likely that these went sent in for slabbing and grading when it came available. Again this is just my opinion based on random data bopping around in my brain and a little reasoning. So as an assumption and I know how dangerous assuming is, I would say it is very possible that the Type 1 is as scarce as the NGC & PCGS Gen 1.0's but they technically shouldn't be. I hope that some others reading this add their opinions as well.
Had to add my oldest ANACS cert:
I missed the 2019 dialog, but this is good stuff. When I click on the ANACS barcode link I get a, "nope, not here ..." message.
Is there a current link?
I am attaching 3 "oddballs" for your thoughts. I somewhere came to believe the first pic is from a TV/Mass Marketing effort. The second one can be found right now on eBay (link below). I had never seen it before.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1845-Large-Cent-ANACS-Rare-Yellow-Label-Genuine-Early-Small-White-Old-Holder/184361099935?hash=item2aecc7229f:g:ekkAAOSwjONdzLMu:sc:USPSFirstClass!39571!US!-1
The third pic is one of my SWHs, it has a different font from any I've seen. The last pic is just a cool Gen1 MS67.
Thank you for sharing.
If we were all the same, the world would be an incredibly boring place.
Tommy
@JeffersonFrog Here's a different archived link, I'm not sure why the old one is missing. There is no current link as ANACS does not have it on their web page anymore. I took a screen shot and printed it just in case it disappears permanently.
https://web.archive.org/web/20190317024106/http://www.anacs.com/contentPages/BarCode.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
As for the 4 you pictured
1. That was my understanding as well,
2. The yellow label is scarce and was used around 1991/1992 I named it Gen P4 (Problem version of ANACS gen 4),
3. Fonts vary widely I've noticed after gen 3, while some are probably more scarce than others would take massive time and effort over years to catalog them all and that's not a can of worms I want to open!
4. Very nice gen 1!
@JeffersonFrog EXnnnn are interesting because those are the cross-over between ANACS/ANA and ANACS/Amos - one of two-letter combination in use at the time.
I've posted this before, as part of my effort to nail down the cross-over point. EX1867 is just a little earlier than the ANACS/ANA I have.
ANACS swh / ANA EX1885
ANACS swh / Amos EX7555
My data is better for RE:
Missing from my picture is
ANACS swh / ANA RE3273
If nothing else, I'm going to steal your picture :-)
I need a better shot of the 1884-O in the "TV Grading ANACS" slab. The cert# should resolve. I worked quite a bit with the ANACS Web/Database developer to unlock several areas of the database that had been hiding behind null queries.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")