@BStrauss3 I've been saving pics of photo certs for years and have seen gray and black backgrounds, though I've never made note of it in my ANACS history. As for the one I posted, I have a photo of another from the same day and it's the regular style, so I'm wondering if maybe they were experimenting with different ideas. Maybe it was never meant to go out? Still cool whatever the reason. Here's both for reference.
Probably not, the A series (5 and 9 have been seen) represented some kind of experiment (purpose unknown). There are a couple other oddities, such as handwritten "Sample5".
The first of the SWH are the 2-letter 4-number ones. iIRC, Tom reported that XA#### were first.
SWH are known with both ANA and Amos labels. And the ANA Lamp of knowledge vs. the A on the inside bottom right of the reverse shell.
EX and RE were in use at the time of the sale.
Under Amos ownership, so post 1989 and actually a few years later, like 1992 or 1993, they converted the XX#### to numeric in the database. There used to be a conversion chart on the ANACS website (Internet archive). Eventually they fixed the lookup so it handles both XX#### and the numeric equivalent.
They then filled in the gaps (0, 7, several others) and then it was sequential through Anderson Press ownership and to the start of the curved top blue labels.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
If you go back to the 1st page of this thread, most of the data I'm referring to is already posted.
Lane's A000005, my "Sample5". I was wrong on page 1, the A / Lamp is on the inside of the REVERSE of the shell.
AFAIK we never did find another NJ#### in Amos, making a reholder more and more likely. But I admit I never really looked THAT hard.
"Sample5" is the larger SHW (I just checked), which is probably what it was a sample of. That would put these in 1996.
My note from a few years ago says XA were show submissions, I'll have to find the note on which letter pair was "first".
ANA
CD, EX (dual), JK, KP, LO, LP, MJ, NJ, RD, RE (dual), TR, TS, WD, WF, WR, XA (supposedly show submissions)
It definitely is the letter L letter O (I looked long and hard for an LO0 - the font used has the O and 0 very similar, but it is slightly different). The closest I've come is LO80## with some photo overlay trickery.
Eventually, I found this:
John calls these Generation 1 (Type II) from Feb 1989 to June 1990.
Amos
EX (dual), PG, PK, RE (dual), SC, SX, WE, ZD
John calls these Generation 2 from June 1990 to 1991.
Amos#s NNnnnn
0, 7, 15, 22, 25, then 28 and follows (the XX to NN mapping goes up to 27).
The EX handover was somewhere after EX2470 (the highest I have is EX1885 ANA)
The RE handover was between RE2200 ANA and RE4037 Amos
Today, I have RE3273 in ANA and RE2160 in Amos. The sale also came together quickly, Amos likely continued using the ANA Shells and labels for a while.
Rough math, there were 14 letter pairs exclusively used by ANA and two half-used. That puts a ROM upper limit of 15x10,000 or 150,000 coins originally in ANA SWH. (upper since not every number was used... when I data mined, the letter pairs mostly ended in the mid 9### range)
The same math says ~70,000 in Amos XX#### SWH. Followed by all numbers, where the cert#s run to the low 3 millions.
ROM = Rough Order of Magnitude
Research topics...
Serial #s on either side of the SWH size change. My highest smaller is 510526 and my smallest larger is 922322.
Serial #s on either side of the hologram changes from red to gold - it might be related to the size change - I have nothing to suggest otherwise.
Serial #s on either size of the barcode format changes and changes in how it was shown on the labels
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Thanks for posting the website @BStrauss3 . Just learned my common as dirt 1853 XF-40
Seated Dime is in some rare early generation blue holder. life is stranger than fiction because this is the cheapest most common coin in my entire collection. James
sorry if I miss led you 86Saab. My coin is in the next one, The 7.1 slab. thanks for your interest and also thanks for doing what must be a thankless job. james
@seatedlib3991 said:
sorry if I miss led you 86Saab. My coin is in the next one, The 7.1 slab. thanks for your interest and also thanks for doing what must be a thankless job. james
No problem and thank you for the thanks! I'm glad you found it useful.
@86Saab, I do have an interesting story about ANACS though. I cannot give you a specific date without spending hours going through old invoices and such but I had the oddest experience with them.
I submitted about a dozen coins to them in the early 2000's. My goal was to add Breen numbers to my holders. I did not hear from them for several weeks so I gave a call to get an update. I was told the company had changed hands and the new owners were no longer going to remove coins from old holders and put them in new ones. I about fell off my chair. I pointed out that one coin, an 1873-S was in a holder (Old white) that did not have the all important "S". I was told that was a previous administrations fault so tough luck. I was in total shock a slab company would make such a weird decision and asked to just have the coins returned. Two weeks later I get a call. The rules have changed again and they still have my coins. so I had them done. just thought you might find that interesting. James
In 1989 ANACS discontinued issuing photo certificates and began encapsulating coins in tamper evident plastic holders. A year later, the ANA board of governors sold ANACS to Amos Press, publishers of Coin World. In December 2007, ANACS was acquired by EKW, LLC, of Colorado and on January 1, 2008 was relocated to Englewood, Colorado, a Denver suburb.
Ohio business records show ANACS LLC formed on 2/25/2005 and merged out of existence into ANACS LP (Texas) on 3/1/2006.
Much as with the SWH, there are clearly overlaps of shell and label across ownership changes.
The blue label slabs date from Anderson, beginning around February 2006. The Yellow labels begin in September 2008 under DFLLC, but as John points out there are "blue reholders" up to at least August 2019.
What I call the "Wings holder", blue label, rounded top and bottom, started in early 2006, and lasted maybe 18 months.
The squared off curve top holder starts in September 2007.
Just got the results of a recent CAC grading submission in which I included a Type 10 Photo Certified 1925 Peace $ that had been graded MS63/63 by ANACS. Needless to say I was happy with the results!
Hi @wayneherndon! Does that 20-D mercury dime seem undergraded to you or pretty spot on for AU55? I have a number of 6 digit serial slabs and they are all at least a grade higher than the grade on the slab, based on current PCGS grading standards. By the way, you pointed me to the small white ANACS slab box (intercept shield?) that also fits capital plastics holders. Thanks!
@86Saab said: @BStrauss3 I've been saving pics of photo certs for years and have seen gray and black backgrounds, though I've never made note of it in my ANACS history. As for the one I posted, I have a photo of another from the same day and it's the regular style, so I'm wondering if maybe they were experimenting with different ideas. Maybe it was never meant to go out? Still cool whatever the reason. Here's both for reference.
.
.
Have enlarged photos been seen on other photo certs like that Barber Dime?
I don't recall ever seeing one, unless that was addressed earlier in this thread. Possibly that was being experimented with. Would have been a good option for ANACS to have offered anyway.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
@WinLoseWin I've never seen or heard of any others before finding this one and posting it here. I was also thinking it may have been some experimental piece that made it out into the wild.
@one_fine_dime said:
Hi @wayneherndon! Does that 20-D mercury dime seem undergraded to you or pretty spot on for AU55? I have a number of 6 digit serial slabs and they are all at least a grade higher than the grade on the slab, based on current PCGS grading standards. By the way, you pointed me to the small white ANACS slab box (intercept shield?) that also fits capital plastics holders. Thanks!
Brian
Grade is correct on this one. A nice AU but not nice enough to be a 58.
I realize I'm off topic here but I've been following this thread for some time because I am a fan of older/unusual anacs slabs. I know there are many knowledgeable "unusual slab" guys here so maybe someone can help shed some light on this unusual ngc slab (or more accurately strange ngc sticker) that I just had to purchase. I've never come across this before. It certainly seems like it was applied by NGC when the coin was slabbed. Perhaps in the very early days of NGC photo imaging coins they applied these stickers to make collectors aware of this new feature? If so, why haven't I seen more of these stickers? Or maybe you guys have seen this before. Any thoughts or explanations would be appreciated. Thanks
@Jotull16 Nice pick-up! I haven't seen one of these either. You might be better off starting a new thread with your question. It would likely get more eyes on it if you did. I'd be curious to see what anyone knows about this as well.
Thanks for your reply( and suggestion)! I wonder if this idea was soon scrapped. These "mid generation" NGC slabs are really not my interest, but I had never seen one of these stickers, so I just had to pick it up.
I will try my luck starting a new thread to see if anyone else has one of these.
I recall reading that they did it for a short time, perhaps when they started imaging everything. Until then it had only been an extra cost option to have the coin imaged.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@BStrauss3 said:
If you go back to the 1st page of this thread, most of the data I'm referring to is already posted.
Lane's A000005, my "Sample5". I was wrong on page 1, the A / Lamp is on the inside of the REVERSE of the shell.
AFAIK we never did find another NJ#### in Amos, making a reholder more and more likely. But I admit I never really looked THAT hard.
"Sample5" is the larger SHW (I just checked), which is probably what it was a sample of. That would put these in 1996.
My note from a few years ago says XA were show submissions, I'll have to find the note on which letter pair was "first".
ANA
CD, EX (dual), JK, KP, LO, LP, MJ, NJ, RD, RE (dual), TR, TS, WD, WF, WR, XA (supposedly show submissions)
It definitely is the letter L letter O (I looked long and hard for an LO0 - the font used has the O and 0 very similar, but it is slightly different). The closest I've come is LO80## with some photo overlay trickery.
Eventually, I found this:
John calls these Generation 1 (Type II) from Feb 1989 to June 1990.
Amos
EX (dual), PG, PK, RE (dual), SC, SX, WE, ZD
John calls these Generation 2 from June 1990 to 1991.
Amos#s NNnnnn
0, 7, 15, 22, 25, then 28 and follows (the XX to NN mapping goes up to 27).
The EX handover was somewhere after EX2470 (the highest I have is EX1885 ANA)
The RE handover was between RE2200 ANA and RE4037 Amos
Today, I have RE3273 in ANA and RE2160 in Amos. The sale also came together quickly, Amos likely continued using the ANA Shells and labels for a while.
Rough math, there were 14 letter pairs exclusively used by ANA and two half-used. That puts a ROM upper limit of 15x10,000 or 150,000 coins originally in ANA SWH. (upper since not every number was used... when I data mined, the letter pairs mostly ended in the mid 9### range)
The same math says ~70,000 in Amos XX#### SWH. Followed by all numbers, where the cert#s run to the low 3 millions.
ROM = Rough Order of Magnitude
Research topics...
Serial #s on either side of the SWH size change. My highest smaller is 510526 and my smallest larger is 922322.
Serial #s on either side of the hologram changes from red to gold - it might be related to the size change - I have nothing to suggest otherwise.
Serial #s on either size of the barcode format changes and changes in how it was shown on the labels
@BStrauss3 said:
If you go back to the 1st page of this thread, most of the data I'm referring to is already posted.
Lane's A000005, my "Sample5". I was wrong on page 1, the A / Lamp is on the inside of the REVERSE of the shell.
AFAIK we never did find another NJ#### in Amos, making a reholder more and more likely. But I admit I never really looked THAT hard.
"Sample5" is the larger SHW (I just checked), which is probably what it was a sample of. That would put these in 1996.
My note from a few years ago says XA were show submissions, I'll have to find the note on which letter pair was "first".
ANA
CD, EX (dual), JK, KP, LO, LP, MJ, NJ, RD, RE (dual), TR, TS, WD, WF, WR, XA (supposedly show submissions)
It definitely is the letter L letter O (I looked long and hard for an LO0 - the font used has the O and 0 very similar, but it is slightly different). The closest I've come is LO80## with some photo overlay trickery.
Eventually, I found this:
John calls these Generation 1 (Type II) from Feb 1989 to June 1990.
Amos
EX (dual), PG, PK, RE (dual), SC, SX, WE, ZD
John calls these Generation 2 from June 1990 to 1991.
Amos#s NNnnnn
0, 7, 15, 22, 25, then 28 and follows (the XX to NN mapping goes up to 27).
The EX handover was somewhere after EX2470 (the highest I have is EX1885 ANA)
The RE handover was between RE2200 ANA and RE4037 Amos
Today, I have RE3273 in ANA and RE2160 in Amos. The sale also came together quickly, Amos likely continued using the ANA Shells and labels for a while.
Rough math, there were 14 letter pairs exclusively used by ANA and two half-used. That puts a ROM upper limit of 15x10,000 or 150,000 coins originally in ANA SWH. (upper since not every number was used... when I data mined, the letter pairs mostly ended in the mid 9### range)
The same math says ~70,000 in Amos XX#### SWH. Followed by all numbers, where the cert#s run to the low 3 millions.
ROM = Rough Order of Magnitude
Research topics...
Serial #s on either side of the SWH size change. My highest smaller is 510526 and my smallest larger is 922322.
Serial #s on either side of the hologram changes from red to gold - it might be related to the size change - I have nothing to suggest otherwise.
Serial #s on either size of the barcode format changes and changes in how it was shown on the labels
Comments
@86Saab if I had to guess they had problems with matching up the prints to the certificate and added that bar with the cert# for identification.
It may have been short lived since @AlanSki has a later cert# with the grey background but no ID#.
I know the last of the photocerts have the id in red.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@BStrauss3 I've been saving pics of photo certs for years and have seen gray and black backgrounds, though I've never made note of it in my ANACS history. As for the one I posted, I have a photo of another from the same day and it's the regular style, so I'm wondering if maybe they were experimenting with different ideas. Maybe it was never meant to go out? Still cool whatever the reason. Here's both for reference.
My second lowest serial number.
@BStrauss3 this is my acquaintances coin. Did ANA start out using “A” serial numbers? If so, would this put the coin at #9 slabbed?
Probably not, the A series (5 and 9 have been seen) represented some kind of experiment (purpose unknown). There are a couple other oddities, such as handwritten "Sample5".
The first of the SWH are the 2-letter 4-number ones. iIRC, Tom reported that XA#### were first.
SWH are known with both ANA and Amos labels. And the ANA Lamp of knowledge vs. the A on the inside bottom right of the reverse shell.
EX and RE were in use at the time of the sale.
Under Amos ownership, so post 1989 and actually a few years later, like 1992 or 1993, they converted the XX#### to numeric in the database. There used to be a conversion chart on the ANACS website (Internet archive). Eventually they fixed the lookup so it handles both XX#### and the numeric equivalent.
They then filled in the gaps (0, 7, several others) and then it was sequential through Anderson Press ownership and to the start of the curved top blue labels.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
If you go back to the 1st page of this thread, most of the data I'm referring to is already posted.
Lane's A000005, my "Sample5". I was wrong on page 1, the A / Lamp is on the inside of the REVERSE of the shell.
AFAIK we never did find another NJ#### in Amos, making a reholder more and more likely. But I admit I never really looked THAT hard.
"Sample5" is the larger SHW (I just checked), which is probably what it was a sample of. That would put these in 1996.
My note from a few years ago says XA were show submissions, I'll have to find the note on which letter pair was "first".
It definitely is the letter L letter O (I looked long and hard for an LO0 - the font used has the O and 0 very similar, but it is slightly different). The closest I've come is LO80## with some photo overlay trickery.
Eventually, I found this:
John calls these Generation 1 (Type II) from Feb 1989 to June 1990.
John calls these Generation 2 from June 1990 to 1991.
John calls the all numerics Generation 3, 4, 5, and 6. I won't steal his hard work, go check out his site: https://oldslabholders.com/anacs-cert-and-slab-generations
Today, I have RE3273 in ANA and RE2160 in Amos. The sale also came together quickly, Amos likely continued using the ANA Shells and labels for a while.
Rough math, there were 14 letter pairs exclusively used by ANA and two half-used. That puts a ROM upper limit of 15x10,000 or 150,000 coins originally in ANA SWH. (upper since not every number was used... when I data mined, the letter pairs mostly ended in the mid 9### range)
The same math says ~70,000 in Amos XX#### SWH. Followed by all numbers, where the cert#s run to the low 3 millions.
ROM = Rough Order of Magnitude
Research topics...
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Thanks for posting the website @BStrauss3 . Just learned my common as dirt 1853 XF-40
Seated Dime is in some rare early generation blue holder. life is stranger than fiction because this is the cheapest most common coin in my entire collection. James
@seatedlib3991 I would love to see a photo of your 1853. If it's the gen 7.0, I'd like to add it to the census. If you don't mind. John
sorry if I miss led you 86Saab. My coin is in the next one, The 7.1 slab. thanks for your interest and also thanks for doing what must be a thankless job. james
No problem and thank you for the thanks! I'm glad you found it useful.
@86Saab, I do have an interesting story about ANACS though. I cannot give you a specific date without spending hours going through old invoices and such but I had the oddest experience with them.
I submitted about a dozen coins to them in the early 2000's. My goal was to add Breen numbers to my holders. I did not hear from them for several weeks so I gave a call to get an update. I was told the company had changed hands and the new owners were no longer going to remove coins from old holders and put them in new ones. I about fell off my chair. I pointed out that one coin, an 1873-S was in a holder (Old white) that did not have the all important "S". I was told that was a previous administrations fault so tough luck. I was in total shock a slab company would make such a weird decision and asked to just have the coins returned. Two weeks later I get a call. The rules have changed again and they still have my coins. so I had them done. just thought you might find that interesting. James
@seatedlib3991 that whole era has been scrubbed from the history.
You can easily find a few articles from the ANA sale to Amos in 1990.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/1990/06/24/coin-slabbing-comes-of-age-with-ana-sale/
You can find articles from the Anderson Press sale to James Taylor / Driving Force LLC in December 2007.
https://www.numismaticnews.net/archive/anacs-sold-now-what
But there is a lot less about the 2005 sale to Anderson Press, the move to Ohio, and the 2006 move to Austin, TX
Even ANACS' about page scrubs it - https://anacs.com/about-anacs/
Ohio business records show ANACS LLC formed on 2/25/2005 and merged out of existence into ANACS LP (Texas) on 3/1/2006.
Much as with the SWH, there are clearly overlaps of shell and label across ownership changes.
The blue label slabs date from Anderson, beginning around February 2006. The Yellow labels begin in September 2008 under DFLLC, but as John points out there are "blue reholders" up to at least August 2019.
What I call the "Wings holder", blue label, rounded top and bottom, started in early 2006, and lasted maybe 18 months.
The squared off curve top holder starts in September 2007.
Very early ANACS history:
https://coinweek.com/history-first-third-party-coin-grading-service-anacs/
https://coinweek.com/history-first-third-party-coin-grading-service-part-two/
And don't miss Robert Paul's early photo certificate history. Hard to find until John started hosting a copy at https://drive.google.com/file/d/15HpjwR8WyYBLi8H5bRBP7Xfl_dUMMWPB/view
(The cert with the red numbers I was thinking of above is Bob's type 9 and 10 from 1987-1989.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Just got the results of a recent CAC grading submission in which I included a Type 10 Photo Certified 1925 Peace $ that had been graded MS63/63 by ANACS. Needless to say I was happy with the results!
Here’s a low serial number 4th generation holder.
Hi @wayneherndon! Does that 20-D mercury dime seem undergraded to you or pretty spot on for AU55? I have a number of 6 digit serial slabs and they are all at least a grade higher than the grade on the slab, based on current PCGS grading standards. By the way, you pointed me to the small white ANACS slab box (intercept shield?) that also fits capital plastics holders. Thanks!
Boy 'O Boy!
Great old thread.
Now you got me searching all my ANACS holders.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Dupe
.
.
Have enlarged photos been seen on other photo certs like that Barber Dime?
I don't recall ever seeing one, unless that was addressed earlier in this thread. Possibly that was being experimented with. Would have been a good option for ANACS to have offered anyway.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
@WinLoseWin I've never seen or heard of any others before finding this one and posting it here. I was also thinking it may have been some experimental piece that made it out into the wild.
Grade is correct on this one. A nice AU but not nice enough to be a 58.
WH
I realize I'm off topic here but I've been following this thread for some time because I am a fan of older/unusual anacs slabs. I know there are many knowledgeable "unusual slab" guys here so maybe someone can help shed some light on this unusual ngc slab (or more accurately strange ngc sticker) that I just had to purchase. I've never come across this before. It certainly seems like it was applied by NGC when the coin was slabbed. Perhaps in the very early days of NGC photo imaging coins they applied these stickers to make collectors aware of this new feature? If so, why haven't I seen more of these stickers? Or maybe you guys have seen this before. Any thoughts or explanations would be appreciated. Thanks
@Jotull16 Nice pick-up! I haven't seen one of these either. You might be better off starting a new thread with your question. It would likely get more eyes on it if you did. I'd be curious to see what anyone knows about this as well.
Thanks for your reply( and suggestion)! I wonder if this idea was soon scrapped. These "mid generation" NGC slabs are really not my interest, but I had never seen one of these stickers, so I just had to pick it up.
I will try my luck starting a new thread to see if anyone else has one of these.
I recall reading that they did it for a short time, perhaps when they started imaging everything. Until then it had only been an extra cost option to have the coin imaged.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I have found the yellow Anacs slabs to be good sellers on the bourse.
Yellow curve top (modern)? Or the rare yellow label (detailsl SW
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@U1chicago
Found the other PO 1 @AlanSki
According to this thread, that and yours are the only 2 soapboxes.
Just for fun:
peacockcoins
Any idea why that cert# is not valid?
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@86Saab @BStrauss3 Gen 3 holder. I'm not sure if 301784 is accounted for.
@CabTiger Nice coin! It wasn't on the census yet. I'm adding it now.
I always take a closer look at soapboxes because of this thread. This one just popped up in my local shop and I couldn't pass it up.
Posted in another thread, but if anyone has additional info on this early slab it would be appreciated.
My oldest and lowest grade black dot! 🤣 😂
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
UPDATE: Sorry, I got them mixed up. This one is my oldest.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
@jfriedm56 That's the 1st gen ANACS slab used from 1989-1990. For more information go to https://oldslabholders.com/anacs-cert-and-slab-generations
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Y_6cj6X2v_ZbO4NrqlRLysVeJO1IgoqnAA51ErVhLf8/edit?usp=sharing