@Weiss said:
Trying to play catch-up here. Correct me if I'm wrong:
SWH = Small White Holder
AMOS are the folks who bought the grading service and, with some cross-over, transition from the alpha-numeric cert number to the numeric code. @BStrauss3 indicates "Of the smaller SWH, under ANA ownership there is an ANA in the inside of the front shell, under Amos Press ownership an A."
I'm afraid I'm not following. On the insert itself there are the letters "ANA" or "A"? Or does this refer to something else entirely?
My contribution to the discussion:
I might be mistaken but do I see PVC on this walker?
@86Saab said:
If anyone has any examples of any of these and would like them added to the census, if they are not already on it, please post them here or DM me.
@coinbuf here's the link to the census'. I've combined them into one place with tabs at the bottom for various generations. Also I missed a couple of Gen 7.0's so I've updated the above numbers from 58 to 60
Some reason my census numbers post from above disappeared so here they are again. Link for census is in above post.
Photo Cert Type 1: 7 2019-present
Photo Cert Type 2: 4 2019-present
Gen 3: 96 2015-present
Gen 7.0: 60 2015-present
Problem Gen P2: 4 2014-present
Problem Gen P3: 5 2015-present
Problem Gen P4: 24 2018-present
Problem Gen P6.5: 31 2015-present
Photo Cert Type 1
Photo Cert Type 2
Gen 3
Gen 7.0
Problem Gen P2 (Yellow problem label)
Problem Gen P3 (Yellow problem label)
Problem Gen P4 (Last of the yellow problem labels)
Problem Gen P6.5 (Front label with 3 rows of pyramids)
@86Saab said: @coinbuf here's the link to the census'. I've combined them into one place with tabs at the bottom for various generations. Also I missed a couple of Gen 7.0's so I've updated the above numbers from 58 to 60
Thanks, I tried your link but it said I don't have access. It will be difficult for anyone to tell if they have coins not in the census if the census cannot be seen.
I have this thread bookmarked, and have reread back through it a couple of times, but remain confused about the swh serial numbers. Specifically:
Are the Gen4, Gen5 and Gen6 all-numeric serial numbers sequential?
Is a 960318 Gen4 holder older than a 356318 Gen4 holder?
Do the first two digits represent something else (I see reference to an NNnnnn scheme)?
If so, what does it mean if I have a Gen4 and Gen6 slab that both start with 34xxxx?
If the serial numbers are sequential, presumably Gen4 started at 1 (the lowest I have seen is 939); what would the starting numbers have been for Gen5 and Gen6?
If I'm being dense, just let me know.
If we were all the same, the world would be an incredibly boring place.
@JeffersonFrog No the serial numbers are not sequential. My understanding is that ANACS went back at some point in Gen 4 to start at serial #1. I've seen serial numbers in the single digits but not #1. Gen 3 presumably came before or at least right at the beginning of Gen 4 and has 6 digits. I believe it wasn't until gen 6 that they eventually went to 7 digits. As an example that adds to the confusion I have a holder each from gens 3, 4, & 6 that have serial numbers in the 3xxxxx range. Maybe the 392283 gen 6 was a reholder of an older holder or a number that got missed in the past and so used at that time. Basically there is no way to determine holder or submission date by serial number unless someone has held onto there papers at time of submission. The out of order serial numbers goes back to the beginning of the photo certs, since they are dated it was easy to see how badly out of sequence they were back towards the beginning once I had accumulated enough data/photos of them.
As for the NNnnnn sequencing, I would ask @BStrauss3 I can't say that I ever made sense of that myself. Maybe I was missing something, I never saw it as relevant to the creation of the generations work so I never pulled on that "thread" at the time.
The ANA XXnnnn predate the Amos XXnnnn and the two in use at the time of the sale are, well, the middle.
1989 Began Grading and Slabbing
SWH: CD, EX (part), JK, KP, LO, LP, MJ, NJ, RD, RE (part), TR, TS, WD, WF, WR, and XA
1990 Sold by ANA to Amos Press (Coin World)
SWH: EX (part), PG, PK, RE (part), SC, SX, WE, and ZD
1992 Starts using all numeric cert# for the SWH
When they started in 1992, they had already loaded the XXnnnn into the DB using a conversion table and so they filled in the unused numbers, 0, 7, etc.
Letters Digits not used 0CD 1 EX 2JK 3 KP 4LO 5 LP 6no used 7 MJ 8NJ 9 PG 10PK 11 RD 12RE 13 SC 14not used 15 SX 16TR 17 TS 18WD 19 WE 20not used 21 not used 22WF 23 WR 24not used 25 XA 26ZD 27
and then 28...
1 comes after 279999.
The lowest I personally have are 75 and 127. Others may have been offered for sale, I stopped chasing them in 2014.
You can also see differences in the numeric certs by bar code type:
ANACS Barcodes over the years
The ANACS barcode label uses the popular 2 of 5 Interleaved (ITF) encoding scheme. There are three versions of the ANACS bar code with the third one current as of January 23, 2006. As long as ANACS has been around, there are surely holders with the 2 previous versions so we included them here as well.
Version Three (Current)
Version 3 of the ANACS bar code was released on January 23, 2006. It extended the number of digits from 18 to 20, adding 2 extra digits for encoding the major problem (if any) associated with the coin. We're currently up to 18 distinguishable problems but check back often as we will be adding more. Following is an illustration and table for the layout of the barcode:
ANACS Bar Code, version 3
Chars Description Position
(a) 6 PCGS Number 1-6
(b) 2 Numeric Grade* 7-8
(c) 8 Coin's Serial Number 9-16
(d) 1 Type Flag ** 17
(e) 1 Reserved 18
(f) 2 Problem Code (see table below) 19-20
Numeric grade is inserted in position (b) for all grades.
** Type flag: 1 = Regular Grade, 2 = Net Grade
Note that in version 2 of the ANACS barcode, the numeric grade of the coin is inserted in position (b) for ALL coins. Position (d) of the barcode contains a 1 digit flag. If the coin is a regular grade, position (d) will be "1". If the coin is a problem coin, position (d) will be "2".
Version Two
Version 2 of the ANACS bar code was released on April 1, 2000. The new format is 18 digits encoded using ITF. Following is the layout of this new bar code:
ANACS Bar Code, version 2
Chars Description Position
(a) 6 PCGS Number 1-6
(b) 2 Numeric Grade* 7-8
(c) 8 Coin's Serial Number 9-16
(d) 1 Type Flag ** 17
(e) 1 Reserved 18
Numeric grade is inserted in position (b) for all grades.
** Type flag: 1 = Regular Grade, 2 = Net Grade
Note that in version 2 of the ANACS barcode, the numeric grade of the coin is inserted in position (b) for ALL coins. Position (d) of the barcode contains a 1 digit flag. If the coin is a regular grade, position (d) will be "1". If the coin is a problem coin, position (d) will be "2".
Version One
This is the original format for the ANACS bar code consisting of 16 digits encoded using ITF. Following is an illustration and table for the layout of the barcode:
ANACS Bar Code, version 1
Chars Description Position
(a) 6 PCGS Number 1-6
(b) 2 Numeric Grade* 7-8
(c) 8 Coin's Serial Number 9-16
Numeric grade is inserted in position (b) ONLY for regular grades.
Note formatting corrected at 4pm US/Central.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I used ANACS to hone my grading skill set with Morgan dollars in the early 80's in while stationed (USAF) in Montana. I was happy to see my coins returned with 65/65 grade. The 1880-S DMPL was purchased from Dean Tavenner (ANACS did not use the DMPL designation on certificates at that time). It was cool that he gave me a lesson on DMPLs and proof Morgans (handled my first Morgan proof in his Deerlodge, Montana shop). These are copies some of my raw submittals (flipped with ANACS certificate).
@braddick I'm not sure when ANACS starting using FBL, I don't recall ever seeing it on a gen 3 but have seen it on gen 5's. I'll keep an eye out but it may have started with gen 4. Maybe @BStrauss3 knows the answer to that. @AlanSki That 1931-S is a bit high priced IMO unless CAC would sticker it! That would really help ANACS and be great for us ANACS collectors if CAC would consider them for stickering but that's whole other argument that will likely not accomplish anything...
@BStrauss3 said:
Wayne - some cross (esp. the spectacular ones), but a lot don't... you pay your money, you take your chances. Glad it worked out for you!
Funny you should say that. I paid MS63 PL money for the coin when it was ANACS MS64 DMPL certified. The market had it priced very appropriately, which is why I jumped at the chance to own it.
If anything, ANACS graded coins have always been reasonably priced when purchasing them. Trying to sell them at par with a PCGS graded coin was always the challenge.
I have not tried to sell an ANACS certified coin in a while (most were crossed over to our hosts about 10 years ago). What is the market like for them now?
Always looking for attractive rim toned Morgan and Peace dollars in PCGS or (older) ANA/ANACS holders!
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
I just found this certificate, I've never seen one like it. It falls in the Type 6 cert range but ANACS added a black cert number box in between coins and made coin background white. Unfortunately the coin wasn't with it but I bought the cert just to have it. @BStrauss3@bob48@CaptHenway have any of you ever seen one? Any thoughts or explanations for it's existence?
@86Saab said:
I just found this certificate, I've never seen one like it. It falls in the Type 6 cert range but ANACS added a black cert number box in between coins and made coin background white. Unfortunately the coin wasn't with it but I bought the cert just to have it. @BStrauss3@bob48@CaptHenway have any of you ever seen one? Any thoughts or explanations for it's existence?
THose started after I left in the Summer of 1984. Let me refer this to @KOYNGUY who came in when I left.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Comments
Very nice, I still need a gen3 holder for my old holder set, they are much harder to find than most of the small white ANACS generation holders.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I might be mistaken but do I see PVC on this walker?
this post re-posted below.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Where is the census, link?
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
@coinbuf here's the link to the census'. I've combined them into one place with tabs at the bottom for various generations. Also I missed a couple of Gen 7.0's so I've updated the above numbers from 58 to 60
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xelfzf5_IxxGJS72zLfT161Z7LIiQW--pEXp6n3rslk/edit?usp=sharing
Some reason my census numbers post from above disappeared so here they are again. Link for census is in above post.
Photo Cert Type 1: 7 2019-present
Photo Cert Type 2: 4 2019-present
Gen 3: 96 2015-present
Gen 7.0: 60 2015-present
Problem Gen P2: 4 2014-present
Problem Gen P3: 5 2015-present
Problem Gen P4: 24 2018-present
Problem Gen P6.5: 31 2015-present
Photo Cert Type 1
Photo Cert Type 2
Gen 3
Gen 7.0
Problem Gen P2 (Yellow problem label)
Problem Gen P3 (Yellow problem label)
Problem Gen P4 (Last of the yellow problem labels)
Problem Gen P6.5 (Front label with 3 rows of pyramids)
If anyone has examples of any of the generations to add to the census (posted above), please post them here or DM me.
Thanks, I tried your link but it said I don't have access. It will be difficult for anyone to tell if they have coins not in the census if the census cannot be seen.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I had 7 gen 3 soapbars. I sold one. I lost 5 of them. I haven't seen them for a year now. So only 1 gen 3 now.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
@coinbuf Try it now, apparently I didn't click the box to allow viewing.
My contribution
@AlanSki Great lot! That's one heck of a nice AU55 Walker!
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
I have this thread bookmarked, and have reread back through it a couple of times, but remain confused about the swh serial numbers. Specifically:
Are the Gen4, Gen5 and Gen6 all-numeric serial numbers sequential?
If I'm being dense, just let me know.
If we were all the same, the world would be an incredibly boring place.
Tommy
@JeffersonFrog No the serial numbers are not sequential. My understanding is that ANACS went back at some point in Gen 4 to start at serial #1. I've seen serial numbers in the single digits but not #1. Gen 3 presumably came before or at least right at the beginning of Gen 4 and has 6 digits. I believe it wasn't until gen 6 that they eventually went to 7 digits. As an example that adds to the confusion I have a holder each from gens 3, 4, & 6 that have serial numbers in the 3xxxxx range. Maybe the 392283 gen 6 was a reholder of an older holder or a number that got missed in the past and so used at that time. Basically there is no way to determine holder or submission date by serial number unless someone has held onto there papers at time of submission. The out of order serial numbers goes back to the beginning of the photo certs, since they are dated it was easy to see how badly out of sequence they were back towards the beginning once I had accumulated enough data/photos of them.
As for the NNnnnn sequencing, I would ask @BStrauss3 I can't say that I ever made sense of that myself. Maybe I was missing something, I never saw it as relevant to the creation of the generations work so I never pulled on that "thread" at the time.
The ANA XXnnnn predate the Amos XXnnnn and the two in use at the time of the sale are, well, the middle.
1989 Began Grading and Slabbing
SWH: CD, EX (part), JK, KP, LO, LP, MJ, NJ, RD, RE (part), TR, TS, WD, WF, WR, and XA
1990 Sold by ANA to Amos Press (Coin World)
SWH: EX (part), PG, PK, RE (part), SC, SX, WE, and ZD
1992 Starts using all numeric cert# for the SWH
When they started in 1992, they had already loaded the XXnnnn into the DB using a conversion table and so they filled in the unused numbers, 0, 7, etc.
Letters Digitsnot used 0CD 1EX 2JK 3KP 4LO 5LP 6no used 7MJ 8NJ 9PG 10PK 11RD 12RE 13SC 14not used 15SX 16TR 17TS 18WD 19WE 20not used 21not used 22WF 23WR 24not used 25XA 26ZD 27and then 28...
1 comes after 279999.
The lowest I personally have are 75 and 127. Others may have been offered for sale, I stopped chasing them in 2014.
You can also see differences in the numeric certs by bar code type:
Note formatting corrected at 4pm US/Central.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Thanks @BStrauss3 ! It all makes sense now.
I used ANACS to hone my grading skill set with Morgan dollars in the early 80's in while stationed (USAF) in Montana. I was happy to see my coins returned with 65/65 grade. The 1880-S DMPL was purchased from Dean Tavenner (ANACS did not use the DMPL designation on certificates at that time). It was cool that he gave me a lesson on DMPLs and proof Morgans (handled my first Morgan proof in his Deerlodge, Montana shop). These are copies some of my raw submittals (flipped with ANACS certificate).
Thank you for the explanations @BStrauss3 and @86Saab
If we were all the same, the world would be an incredibly boring place.
Tommy
@BStrauss3 heres another low serial number
I just added these three GEN 3 Franklins to my scarce slab collection:
peacockcoins
@braddick So you're the one that got them. Nice pick-up! I saw them too late to buy them but I added them to the census. Enjoy!
Thanks!
It would be a sweet bonus if they're FBLs too...
(I don't think ANACS recognized FBLs back in the day? Could be wrong. . .)
peacockcoins
@braddick Here’s one on eBay but I’m not interested in it.
@braddick I'm not sure when ANACS starting using FBL, I don't recall ever seeing it on a gen 3 but have seen it on gen 5's. I'll keep an eye out but it may have started with gen 4. Maybe @BStrauss3 knows the answer to that.
@AlanSki That 1931-S is a bit high priced IMO unless CAC would sticker it! That would really help ANACS and be great for us ANACS collectors if CAC would consider them for stickering but that's whole other argument that will likely not accomplish anything...
Decided I needed at least 1 ANA blue label ANACS sample.
Here’s another no barcode if you have $1600 lol
Here’s another hard to find early ANACS no date P01
This one took a bit to find too.
I think the consensus is that ANACS was technically stricter, but that definition was de facto looser than today's TPG.
Ao it's unlikely that most older PL will still qualify
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I sent you a PM. Did you see it?
Another gen 3 for the census.
Pretty!
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
$399.99 on eBay. I paid up for the serial number.
I had a spectacular MS64 1890-CC DMPL in an old ANACS soapbox that crossed to PCGS at MS63 PL.
I love the coin, still have it and agree with PCGS’s assessment of it.
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
Wayne - some cross (esp. the spectacular ones), but a lot don't... you pay your money, you take your chances. Glad it worked out for you!
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Funny you should say that. I paid MS63 PL money for the coin when it was ANACS MS64 DMPL certified. The market had it priced very appropriately, which is why I jumped at the chance to own it.
If anything, ANACS graded coins have always been reasonably priced when purchasing them. Trying to sell them at par with a PCGS graded coin was always the challenge.
I have not tried to sell an ANACS certified coin in a while (most were crossed over to our hosts about 10 years ago). What is the market like for them now?
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
I just found this certificate, I've never seen one like it. It falls in the Type 6 cert range but ANACS added a black cert number box in between coins and made coin background white. Unfortunately the coin wasn't with it but I bought the cert just to have it. @BStrauss3 @bob48 @CaptHenway have any of you ever seen one? Any thoughts or explanations for it's existence?
THose started after I left in the Summer of 1984. Let me refer this to @KOYNGUY who came in when I left.
TD