No, not all no bean coins should be avoided. BUT you should work with a dealer. The only problem, a few retail dealers are full mules for the coin docs-especially in copper and nickels
@specialist
Just a curious question if you know ~
Have any CAC coins that you know of been pulled out of the market for whatever reason and does that claim responsibility still 100% fall on whomever the grading service is?
@Insider2 said:
(in 1987 I was going to have a sticker service) wink:
Now your talking Mr. @Insider2 !!! Hey it's 31 years later, better late than never. You could make a sticker service that says you agree with both the TPG and the CACs assessment. You could call it JACKED. lol
@specialist said:
No, not all no bean coins should be avoided. BUT you should work with a dealer. The only problem, a few retail dealers are full mules for the coin docs-especially in copper and nickels
It's an early Christmas miracle. Can we keep this post stickied to the top of the forum?
If you can grade and detect problem coins, you can cherry coins on your own. Granted fewer collectors and dealers seem to have that skill anymore.
If buying CAC coins is not a major part of the business model why are there so many generic and non generic bids on CDN posted by JA? Is it because he wants to deal in stickered coins or because he wants to create a price point/premium for stickered coins? The bids can be executed by any dealer on the exchange so he is actively asking to buy CAC coins.
I believe that the idea is to weed out the altered coins and find the coins that are exceptional for the grade. But I find it hard to believe that this whole thing is to save all the collectors from dreck.
What better way to know as a dealer what quality coins you may want to purchase in the future than to have half the country sending you coins to look at and approve. And charge them for the advice. Just because he isn’t offering to buy your coins when you submit doesn’t mean he doesn’t want to buy them or wouldn’t buy them if offered.
To be clear I have no problem with CAC. I have sent coins in for a sticker when I see a clear difference in value on stickered vs non. Im Just sceptical about the whole I’m doing it for you not me line.
@specialist said:
No, not all no bean coins should be avoided. BUT you should work with a dealer. The only problem, a few retail dealers are full mules for the coin docs-especially in copper and nickels
If I worked with any of the dealers in my area, I'd be out thousands of dollars. Im going to start a sticker service for dealers. Let me know how much $$$ I can out you down for.
@ACop said:
I have a question that hasnt been answered.
If the TPGs cant grade coins inside of slabs, how can JA? Is he a wizard?
a coin can have the correct grade and not get a sticker. CAC stickers A and B coins. Also, CAC prefers originality. I honestly cant understand why this is difficult for people to comprehend
IMO the controversy lies in the dividing of a grade.
Okay, you have 9 coins and you've put them into 3 piles of 3. (Sorted by YOUR likes)
Now you add a 10th.
Which pile?
I'd have no qualms if the CAC service confirmed a grade without "GRADING the grade."
Now of course that wouldn't draw as many submissions and it would put them head to head against the TPG and that would put them in the GRADING business instead of the "critiquing by degree" business.
However such a service would NOT be a threat to existing coins in any slab.
So "poof" would go any advantage to the whole idea.
I simply can not see this ending up as anything BUT ...virtually... killing the market for ALL unstickered coins.
The hobby is in decline.
It needs no hurdles or uncertainty.
And, from these threads, "uncertainty" is now in bold neon letters!
I view it as being 'all about the money'. The only problem being the novice or non-wealthy collector. They don't share the same grandiose views that J.A. et al do. They are just trying to scrape up enough cash in a hobby that has become inflated. I would truly like to see the average collector get a break once in a while before people stop collecting. But, then again, this is just my opinion and nothing more.
@Coinstartled said:
And the super secret line of succession? Watching CAC coins being bid up to 20-30% premium over non anointed coins. JA retires and the whole game could go poof. Albanese has been elevated as the single best pair of eyes in the hobby, who can possible step in to replace him> @Wabbit2313 said:
@asheland said:
Wabbit, does John Albanese look at every coin sent? Or are there other people doing it for him?
Every single coin Asheland!
I am jumping in here,didn't real all posting, but I recall him JA having a finalizer.
@ACop said:
I have a question that hasnt been answered.
If the TPGs cant grade coins inside of slabs, how can JA? Is he a wizard?
For PCGS Reconsideration Service operates under the same conditions.
I'm sure either would simply reject any slab with surface damage obscuring clear inspection.
>
...and of course the third side of a coin is not really a side.
Patently absurd and the irony of your comment brilliant in marshalling agreement.
Deflective non sequitor,?
Basically - WTF
Unless, of course, you truly believe PCGS Reconsideration Service and/or CAC don't look at the edge of the coin
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
@Gazes said:
a coin can have the correct grade and not get a sticker. CAC stickers A and B coins. Also, CAC prefers originality. I honestly cant understand why this is difficult for people to comprehend
All this debate and isn't this really the bottom line with CAC?
You are totally right. You have located an potential exception. It's a shot in the dark.
In your personal experience, or from any other published information, can you note an example of a "CC" dollar from a "Nixon" (I'm that old) GSA holder that had some PMD on the reeding that would not have a serious rim nick as a "tell"?
THE SKY IS FALLING
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
A small cadre of professional numismatists has announced the formation of Premier Evaluation Services. The group believes the current services provided by firms such as Certified Acceptance Corporation should have an additional layer of review for collector and dealer confidence in the grade evaluations of Third Party Grading Services. This group of professional numismatists has over 300 years combined grading and evaluation experience.
PES will review coins that have been stickered by these companies. After review, if the coin is found to be unacceptable at the assigned grade level, the finalizer will remove the sticker on the holder. A new red sticker will be applied indicating the results of the evaluation. If the grade for the coin is acceptable, a purple sticker will be placed on the back of the holder.
Collectors and dealers will now have the ultimate confidence for purchasing coins that are solid for the assigned grade.
PES is conveniently located in Two Egg, Florida. Submissions are accepted in person every fifth Tuesday of each month from 9:00am to 1:00pm PST. There is no charge for this service.
Coinstartled makes some good points. I will never buy a coin that has been graded because I can't know for sure what defects may be hiding, lurking under the plastic. Better to stick with raw coins that can be fully examined.
PES is conveniently located in Two Egg, Florida. Submissions are accepted in person every fifth Tuesday of each month from 9:00am to 1:00pm PST. There is no charge for this service.
Thanks, Booking my flight now for Tuesday Jan 29th 2019.
Yeah there are still plenty of ticking time bombs waiting to be discovered in non edge view holders.
I use to own this coin and could see it had what I thought was a small edge issue in the OGH, but I still set off to be regraded (in holder).
It came back the same grade with a nice Trueview that shows the edge better. In hand you could now see the full edge and it wasn't pretty.
I will never understand why people care so much about how I spend my money buying CAC coins when I am perfectly fine with them spending their money buying coins without CAC stickers on them. It seems so simple.
i love having an extra set of eyes (and JA has great eyes) on my coins. i could care less if other collectors dont care about CAC---good luck to you. Buy whatever you want. However, it seems that is not enough---you anti CAC guys dont even like me having the option to buy CAC.
@ACop said:
I have a question that hasnt been answered.
If the TPGs cant grade coins inside of slabs, how can JA? Is he a wizard?
a coin can have the correct grade and not get a sticker. CAC stickers A and B coins. Also, CAC prefers originality. I honestly cant understand why this is difficult for people to comprehend
Your response makes 0 sense to my comment. Did you quote the wrong person?
@ACop said:
I have a question that hasnt been answered.
If the TPGs cant grade coins inside of slabs, how can JA? Is he a wizard?
a coin can have the correct grade and not get a sticker. CAC stickers A and B coins. Also, CAC prefers originality. I honestly cant understand why this is difficult for people to comprehend
Your response makes 0 sense to my comment. Did you quote the wrong person?
I didnt quote anyone ??? my comment is a reaction to many posts throughout this thread
@ACop said:
I have a question that hasnt been answered.
If the TPGs cant grade coins inside of slabs, how can JA? Is he a wizard?
a coin can have the correct grade and not get a sticker. CAC stickers A and B coins. Also, CAC prefers originality. I honestly cant understand why this is difficult for people to comprehend
Your response makes 0 sense to my comment. Did you quote the wrong person?
I didnt quote anyone ??? my comment is a reaction to many posts throughout this thread
my last comment was a general comment. I've gotten to the point where I dont even care---i know CAC is a must for almost all gold. If others dont want CAC , it has no impact on me.
@Gazes said:
i love having an extra set of eyes (and JA has great eyes) on my coins. i could care less if other collectors dont care about CAC---good luck to you. Buy whatever you want. However, it seems that is not enough---you anti CAC guys dont even like me having the option to buy CAC.
But yes we do. I now ....only... buy CAC.
EXCEPT in gold. Gold has been so liquid for me that I really don't care.
My CAC "acceptance" is forced by the market. Which, even though I don't like it, I recognize and adapt to.
(I'm not speaking of EARLY gold.)
I have divested of just about every non beaner I have....er... HAD!
@ACop said:
I have a question that hasnt been answered.
If the TPGs cant grade coins inside of slabs, how can JA? Is he a wizard?
a coin can have the correct grade and not get a sticker. CAC stickers A and B coins. Also, CAC prefers originality. I honestly cant understand why this is difficult for people to comprehend
Aside from the post of the op, this is the best explanation in the entire mess of postings in this thread. Unfortunately some people don't get it even though it is explained in writing on CAC's website.
@ACop said:
I have a question that hasnt been answered.
If the TPGs cant grade coins inside of slabs, how can JA? Is he a wizard?
a coin can have the correct grade and not get a sticker. CAC stickers A and B coins. Also, CAC prefers originality. I honestly cant understand why this is difficult for people to comprehend
Aside from the post of the op, this is the best explanation in the entire mess of postings in this thread. Unfortunately some people don't get it even though it is explained in writing on CAC's website.
Do you really buy the splitting coin grades into thirds, schtick? Even worse as the hypnotists (I mean graders) will tell you that they are not split that way by percentages, significantly more coins in the C grade than A and B.
Comments
No, not all no bean coins should be avoided. BUT you should work with a dealer. The only problem, a few retail dealers are full mules for the coin docs-especially in copper and nickels
@specialist
Just a curious question if you know ~
Have any CAC coins that you know of been pulled out of the market for whatever reason and does that claim responsibility still 100% fall on whomever the grading service is?
She owns or at least did own part of CAC per public record documents as recently as 2013 if I recall correctly.
Even though I may agree with the remainder of her quoted post, it should be disclosed IMHO.
Now your talking Mr. @Insider2 !!! Hey it's 31 years later, better late than never. You could make a sticker service that says you agree with both the TPG and the CACs assessment. You could call it JACKED. lol
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
It's an early Christmas miracle. Can we keep this post stickied to the top of the forum?
If you can grade and detect problem coins, you can cherry coins on your own. Granted fewer collectors and dealers seem to have that skill anymore.
If buying CAC coins is not a major part of the business model why are there so many generic and non generic bids on CDN posted by JA? Is it because he wants to deal in stickered coins or because he wants to create a price point/premium for stickered coins? The bids can be executed by any dealer on the exchange so he is actively asking to buy CAC coins.
I believe that the idea is to weed out the altered coins and find the coins that are exceptional for the grade. But I find it hard to believe that this whole thing is to save all the collectors from dreck.
What better way to know as a dealer what quality coins you may want to purchase in the future than to have half the country sending you coins to look at and approve. And charge them for the advice. Just because he isn’t offering to buy your coins when you submit doesn’t mean he doesn’t want to buy them or wouldn’t buy them if offered.
To be clear I have no problem with CAC. I have sent coins in for a sticker when I see a clear difference in value on stickered vs non. Im Just sceptical about the whole I’m doing it for you not me line.
My Ebay Store
I have a question that hasnt been answered.
If the TPGs cant grade coins inside of slabs, how can JA? Is he a wizard?
If I worked with any of the dealers in my area, I'd be out thousands of dollars. Im going to start a sticker service for dealers. Let me know how much $$$ I can out you down for.
For PCGS Reconsideration Service operates under the same conditions.
I'm sure either would simply reject any slab with surface damage obscuring clear inspection.
a coin can have the correct grade and not get a sticker. CAC stickers A and B coins. Also, CAC prefers originality. I honestly cant understand why this is difficult for people to comprehend
IMO the controversy lies in the dividing of a grade.
Okay, you have 9 coins and you've put them into 3 piles of 3. (Sorted by YOUR likes)
Now you add a 10th.
Which pile?
I'd have no qualms if the CAC service confirmed a grade without "GRADING the grade."
Now of course that wouldn't draw as many submissions and it would put them head to head against the TPG and that would put them in the GRADING business instead of the "critiquing by degree" business.
However such a service would NOT be a threat to existing coins in any slab.
So "poof" would go any advantage to the whole idea.
I simply can not see this ending up as anything BUT ...virtually... killing the market for ALL unstickered coins.
The hobby is in decline.
It needs no hurdles or uncertainty.
And, from these threads, "uncertainty" is now in bold neon letters!
I view it as being 'all about the money'. The only problem being the novice or non-wealthy collector. They don't share the same grandiose views that J.A. et al do. They are just trying to scrape up enough cash in a hobby that has become inflated. I would truly like to see the average collector get a break once in a while before people stop collecting. But, then again, this is just my opinion and nothing more.
For those who fancy collecting stirckers
If the TPGs cant grade coins inside of slabs, how can JA? Is he a wizard
it is done all the time via cross-over submissions.
I am jumping in here,didn't real all posting, but I recall him JA having a finalizer.
>
...and of course the third side of a coin is not really a side.
Patently absurd and the irony of your comment brilliant in marshalling agreement.
Deflective non sequitor,?
Basically - WTF
Unless, of course, you truly believe PCGS Reconsideration Service and/or CAC don't look at the edge of the coin
This is a lot of grade without seeing the rim.
All this debate and isn't this really the bottom line with CAC?
and also this:
You are totally right. You have located an potential exception. It's a shot in the dark.
In your personal experience, or from any other published information, can you note an example of a "CC" dollar from a "Nixon" (I'm that old) GSA holder that had some PMD on the reeding that would not have a serious rim nick as a "tell"?
THE SKY IS FALLING
so what you're really saying is that no one should ever grade a GSA coin including PCGS and NGC because they can't see the rim?
And then you blame the whole thing on CAC?
Looks like checkmate.
I am going for a bike ride.
Wear a helmet!
Too late!
wow!!
Where is @Justacommeman when we need him? This thread would be his:
Damn flat rear tire. #%@#&
Anyway, edge view holders help, but how do you verify this grade, buried in opaque plastic.
Please refrain from suggesting guesswork by experts.
Fun thread.
My YouTube Channel
Would you "bean" it?
For Immediate Release:
A small cadre of professional numismatists has announced the formation of Premier Evaluation Services. The group believes the current services provided by firms such as Certified Acceptance Corporation should have an additional layer of review for collector and dealer confidence in the grade evaluations of Third Party Grading Services. This group of professional numismatists has over 300 years combined grading and evaluation experience.
PES will review coins that have been stickered by these companies. After review, if the coin is found to be unacceptable at the assigned grade level, the finalizer will remove the sticker on the holder. A new red sticker will be applied indicating the results of the evaluation. If the grade for the coin is acceptable, a purple sticker will be placed on the back of the holder.
Collectors and dealers will now have the ultimate confidence for purchasing coins that are solid for the assigned grade.
PES is conveniently located in Two Egg, Florida. Submissions are accepted in person every fifth Tuesday of each month from 9:00am to 1:00pm PST. There is no charge for this service.
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us
Coinstartled makes some good points. I will never buy a coin that has been graded because I can't know for sure what defects may be hiding, lurking under the plastic. Better to stick with raw coins that can be fully examined.
Thanks, Booking my flight now for Tuesday Jan 29th 2019.
Yeah there are still plenty of ticking time bombs waiting to be discovered in non edge view holders.
I use to own this coin and could see it had what I thought was a small edge issue in the OGH, but I still set off to be regraded (in holder).
It came back the same grade with a nice Trueview that shows the edge better. In hand you could now see the full edge and it wasn't pretty.
I will never understand why people care so much about how I spend my money buying CAC coins when I am perfectly fine with them spending their money buying coins without CAC stickers on them. It seems so simple.
I wonder how much JA relies on the TPG regarding the rims? Ironic.
i love having an extra set of eyes (and JA has great eyes) on my coins. i could care less if other collectors dont care about CAC---good luck to you. Buy whatever you want. However, it seems that is not enough---you anti CAC guys dont even like me having the option to buy CAC.
Your response makes 0 sense to my comment. Did you quote the wrong person?
I didnt quote anyone ??? my comment is a reaction to many posts throughout this thread
You did quote me up there somewhere.
my last comment was a general comment. I've gotten to the point where I dont even care---i know CAC is a must for almost all gold. If others dont want CAC , it has no impact on me.
But yes we do. I now ....only... buy CAC.
EXCEPT in gold. Gold has been so liquid for me that I really don't care.
My CAC "acceptance" is forced by the market. Which, even though I don't like it, I recognize and adapt to.
(I'm not speaking of EARLY gold.)
I have divested of just about every non beaner I have....er... HAD!
Of course it has slowed ALL my buying to a considerable degree.
I suppose I should edit to add that it is segueing me OUT OF COIN COLLECTING. Too much hassle and angst.
Not worth it anymore.
To me.
Please stay in for another 20 minutes so that we can reach 200 posts.
Tick
Tock
Competing CAC threads tend to sap each other of momentum.
I'm presently enamored with mid grade CAC in a series with very few of them.
Year of the CAC
Aside from the post of the op, this is the best explanation in the entire mess of postings in this thread. Unfortunately some people don't get it even though it is explained in writing on CAC's website.
Do you really buy the splitting coin grades into thirds, schtick? Even worse as the hypnotists (I mean graders) will tell you that they are not split that way by percentages, significantly more coins in the C grade than A and B.