I know some of you probably think that I’m a closet racist but I promise you I have more Latino and black friends than any of you, I spent a very long time working with and policing Black and Spanish guys and not once ever have I been accused of being racist or unfair to anyone because of race or creed. I have also had many discussions over the years with minority LE and first degree murderers who would literally slash your throat if they felt disrespected and they all agree that 99% of issues would be non issues if people kept it “real” and showed MUTUAL respect, that is the underlying issue with most social issues. > @keets said:
I’ve taken in what has been posted not just in this thread but the Colin Kap, Anthem and the mascot threads and it’s always the same crap
then maybe you should spew your bile about it to those people.
Maybe you should take a step back, I did not direct this at you personally did I? I responded to what was in your post- quote or not I never directed it at “Keets” so why don’t you settle down
I looked up the McDonald's case. The woman was 79 years old. The woman was holding the coffee cup between her legs, tired to remove the lid and it spilled. Different facts that what I recalled previously.
@SanctionII said:
I looked up the McDonald's case. The woman was 79 years old. The woman was holding the coffee cup between her legs, tired to remove the lid and it spilled. Different facts that what I recalled previously.
I remember listening to a radio talk show about this and it was claimed that McDonald's had been in trouble for their coffee burning customers prior to this incident and was warned that they needed to lower the temperature. They refused and when the elderly woman was burned, they got the hammer.
It was also noted that McDonalds made enough profits on just coffee sales in one week to pay the fine.
No pity for them from me.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
Interesting point that McDonald's has NOT changed their coffee temperature policy:
Pasted from Wiki:
Since Liebeck, McDonald's has not reduced the service temperature of its coffee. McDonald's policy today is to serve coffee at 80–90 °C (176–194 °F),[33] relying on more sternly worded warnings on cups made of rigid foam to avoid future liability, though it continues to face lawsuits over hot coffee.[33][34] The Specialty Coffee Association of America supports improved packaging methods rather than lowering the temperature at which coffee is served. The association has successfully aided the defense of subsequent coffee burn cases.[35] Similarly, as of 2004, Starbucks sells coffee at 175–185 °F (79–85 °C), and the executive director of the Specialty Coffee Association of America reported that the standard serving temperature is 160–185 °F (71–85 °C).
@stevek said:
I'll tell ya what though...next time i burn my tongue or mouth from hot soup, I'm contacting Jackie Chiles.
I burned my finger once on a frosted Pop Tart and it blistered badly. I was working at a Ford plant the summer before I went to college. The plant gave me a one handed job with a caliper rather then me running 40 lb transmission housings. They forgot to take me off of the one handed job and I didn’t exactly remind them. I thought I was winning. I should have called Saul instead
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@stevek said:
I'll tell ya what though...next time i burn my tongue or mouth from hot soup, I'm contacting Jackie Chiles.
I burned my finger once on a frosted Pop Tart and it blistered badly. I was working at a Ford plant the summer before I went to college. The plant gave me a one handed job with a caliper rather then me running 40 lb transmission housings. They forgot to take me off of the one handed job and I didn’t exactly remind them. I thought I was winning. I should have called Saul instead
m
I doubt if they forgot. You were likely doing an excellent job there so why pull ya?
Ah yes, good old Pop Tarts. One of the finer foods that chemistry can make. LOL
@stevek said:
I'll tell ya what though...next time i burn my tongue or mouth from hot soup, I'm contacting Jackie Chiles.
I burned my finger once on a frosted Pop Tart and it blistered badly. I was working at a Ford plant the summer before I went to college. The plant gave me a one handed job with a caliper rather then me running 40 lb transmission housings. They forgot to take me off of the one handed job and I didn’t exactly remind them. I thought I was winning. I should have called Saul instead
m
I doubt if they forgot. You were likely doing an excellent job there so why pull ya?
Ah yes, good old Pop Tarts. One of the finer foods that chemistry can make. LOL
Frosted raspberry Pop Tarts are dangerous, lol..
SteveK, if you get burned after meeting with Chiles just remeber not to balm on!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@stevek said:
I'll tell ya what though...next time i burn my tongue or mouth from hot soup, I'm contacting Jackie Chiles.
I burned my finger once on a frosted Pop Tart and it blistered badly. I was working at a Ford plant the summer before I went to college. The plant gave me a one handed job with a caliper rather then me running 40 lb transmission housings. They forgot to take me off of the one handed job and I didn’t exactly remind them. I thought I was winning. I should have called Saul instead
m
I doubt if they forgot. You were likely doing an excellent job there so why pull ya?
Ah yes, good old Pop Tarts. One of the finer foods that chemistry can make. LOL
Frosted raspberry Pop Tarts are dangerous, lol..
SteveK, if you get burned after meeting with Chiles just remeber not to balm on!
For many years i have eaten extremely healthy. For example, all the fruits and vegetables I consume are always organic.
The only minor problem with organic is since they don't use any pesticides, occasionally ya find an insect in there. So i'll have to check with Jackie and see if I can sue for a worm in an apple. I think that Jackie will likely say that we have a good case. LOL
Kevin, your correction is what I recall the initial story reporting.
to everyone else who wants to climb on me for my "White Men" comment, understand that I'm a White Man, then go back a page and read what Bronco posted. in the end it's about money and power and the sad truth is that White Men control both. you post links about other Races and Cultures, like South Africa, where stuff similarly happens here in our Homeland we all know who is in charge and what the nature of the "good ol' Boy" network is.
that is my perhaps poorly worded point.
those in power will always work to protect the power and the money. that is what Urban Meyer chose to do. he lied about knowing even though he had reported!!! why would he do that?? where did he think the questions were coming from and how did he think the story got back to him?? I learned a long time ago that intelligent people often do stupid things and such is the case here. knowing what is currently being reported it seems to me that Meyer should keep his job because he did what he was required to do by reporting what he knew when he learned it. by telling "the Lie" about knowing, well, the Media will punish him for that(and it won't be FAKE NEWS).
of course, there is always the chance that this story will change.......................again.
I would conclude that there is a surprisingly large number of people, generally White Men, that feel an entitlement to treat others however they choose. as a Society, it is our choice to condone or report --- I choose report.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
And there are a large percentage of black men who choose not to report things. Especially when that person is bringing in the money, and allowing them to have a good time. Because if they chose to report these things, this movement would have ended, and all the money supporting this movement would have dried up.
@keets said:
I would add that I agree there are lots of frivolous lawsuits brought, but they generally involve money. probably the textbook example is the Hot Coffee McDonalds lawsuit. that sort of thing is the reasoning for Tort Reform, not physical or sexual abuse.
The McDonald's case gets a lot of airplay but in that case it was proven that the McDonald's franchise at that location was deliberately heating the water far past the standard temperature for coffee brewing. I'm nopt saying the settlement in that case was warranted or fair but when a company or business does something intentionally in violation of safety standards, there's going to be represcussions when something goes wrong.
To follow up on this, that case is actually a perfect example of the jury getting it right and ignoring the headlines. All one needs to do is see the damage the coffee inflicted to know that the outcome of the spill was far beyond reasonable. The jury did, in fact, find Stella, partly responsible for what happened. They (correctly) deemed that the extent of the damage was not her fault, thus the award.
@SanctionII said:
My recollection of the lawsuit over the split McDonald's coffee is that the cup of coffee was served to a drive through customer (an elderly woman in her 80's), that the coffee in the cup was heated to over 170 or 180 degrees, that while the coffee cup was being transferred to the woman customer (sitting in her car) somehow the cup was tipped over, or dropped (maybe because the surface of the cardboard or styrafoam cup was too hot to hold in one's hand due to the scalding hot coffee inside of the cup) and the coffee spilled out of the cup into the lap of the woman.
I can imagine the employee handling the cup of coffee carefully, holding it by the edge of the bottom of the cup or by the rim of the cup and handing it to the customer in the car who reaches with one or both hands to take the cup, placing her hands on the vertical surfaces of the cup (like placing your hand on a stove top that is turned on). One's natural reaction to holding a cup of overheated coffee in this manner would be to withdraw your hands. As a result the cup drops and the coffee spills.
The coffee falling into the lap of the elderly woman caused her to suffer major burn injuries to her abdomen, her thighs and her groin area. I assume that she was unable to stand up quickly (so the coffee could fall to the floor instead of soaking into her clothes and making contact with her body) because she is sitting in a car's driver's seat with the car 12-18 inches from the wall of the building in the drive through lane. She likely just ended up sitting in the seat while the scalding hot coffee soaked through her clothes and onto her body.
I understand that she had to be hospitalized and underwent multiple surgeries.
People may laugh and/or scoff at the idea of a lawsuit being filed over McDonald's coffee spilling on you and being too hot. When I first heard of this case I dismissed it. But when I learned more of the details of what went on I think that the lawsuit was justified. I assume the case settled.
As for being a White Male, there is no doubt that such a person is being made the object of derision and hate. White women will suffer the same fate. I am forever thankful that I am a white man who lives in the USA instead of being a white man who lives in South Africa.
I do not see any benefit to society in the USA to dividing its people into groups and pitting them against each other. It would be so much better if people simply identified themselves as "Americans" and did their best (work hard, find your passion, be self sufficient, take care of your family and community, and do not expect things to be handed to you) to make this country a great place for everyone.
Your recollections are not correct.
She was a passenger, not the driver.
The car was not moving, it was parked.
She was opening the coffee to put in creamer and/or sugar. The design of the lids can cause the cup to move/shake when it's taken off.
The coffee spilled directly into her lap with nowhere for her to go. It soaked through her sweatpants and into her groin where it then caused third degree burns requiring multiple skin grafts to treat.
I have never placed hot coffee near my lap ever. Might as well clean my .357 while it's loaded.
For anyone, let alone a likely frail 79 year old woman, to be fooling around trying to maneuver and remove a lid of hot coffee in the confines of a car, sorry to say is negligence on her part. The lady was 100% at fault. It was a totally frivolous lawsuit and we all know it.
However the scumbag trial lawyer was clever enough to get twelve deadhead jurists to see otherwise. Just like those twelve deadhead jurists found OJ innocent after a bunch of clever defense lawyer presentations with the glove, etc.
It was a totally frivolous lawsuit and we all know it
I thought the whole thing was ridiculous and just the result of someone being careless. I'm pretty sure you can tell them "with cream and sugar" and it's added, right??? why would you try to open the cup over your lap and then claim a poorly designed lid as the cause?? it might be poorly designed if it was easy to take off, but not stay on.
@SanctionII said:
My recollection of the lawsuit over the split McDonald's coffee is that the cup of coffee was served to a drive through customer (an elderly woman in her 80's), that the coffee in the cup was heated to over 170 or 180 degrees, that while the coffee cup was being transferred to the woman customer (sitting in her car) somehow the cup was tipped over, or dropped (maybe because the surface of the cardboard or styrafoam cup was too hot to hold in one's hand due to the scalding hot coffee inside of the cup) and the coffee spilled out of the cup into the lap of the woman.
I can imagine the employee handling the cup of coffee carefully, holding it by the edge of the bottom of the cup or by the rim of the cup and handing it to the customer in the car who reaches with one or both hands to take the cup, placing her hands on the vertical surfaces of the cup (like placing your hand on a stove top that is turned on). One's natural reaction to holding a cup of overheated coffee in this manner would be to withdraw your hands. As a result the cup drops and the coffee spills.
The coffee falling into the lap of the elderly woman caused her to suffer major burn injuries to her abdomen, her thighs and her groin area. I assume that she was unable to stand up quickly (so the coffee could fall to the floor instead of soaking into her clothes and making contact with her body) because she is sitting in a car's driver's seat with the car 12-18 inches from the wall of the building in the drive through lane. She likely just ended up sitting in the seat while the scalding hot coffee soaked through her clothes and onto her body.
I understand that she had to be hospitalized and underwent multiple surgeries.
People may laugh and/or scoff at the idea of a lawsuit being filed over McDonald's coffee spilling on you and being too hot. When I first heard of this case I dismissed it. But when I learned more of the details of what went on I think that the lawsuit was justified. I assume the case settled.
As for being a White Male, there is no doubt that such a person is being made the object of derision and hate. White women will suffer the same fate. I am forever thankful that I am a white man who lives in the USA instead of being a white man who lives in South Africa.
I do not see any benefit to society in the USA to dividing its people into groups and pitting them against each other. It would be so much better if people simply identified themselves as "Americans" and did their best (work hard, find your passion, be self sufficient, take care of your family and community, and do not expect things to be handed to you) to make this country a great place for everyone.
Your recollections are not correct.
She was a passenger, not the driver.
The car was not moving, it was parked.
She was opening the coffee to put in creamer and/or sugar. The design of the lids can cause the cup to move/shake when it's taken off.
The coffee spilled directly into her lap with nowhere for her to go. It soaked through her sweatpants and into her groin where it then caused third degree burns requiring multiple skin grafts to treat.
Thats all very interesting because if what you say is true it seems like the TV coverage was heavily slanted with an eye to ridicule the woman , as a way to get the public to favor the company.
@stevek said:
I have never placed hot coffee near my lap ever. Might as well clean my .357 while it's loaded.
For anyone, let alone a likely frail 79 year old woman, to be fooling around trying to maneuver and remove a lid of hot coffee in the confines of a car, sorry to say is negligence on her part. The lady was 100% at fault. It was a totally frivolous lawsuit and we all know it.
However the scumbag trial lawyer was clever enough to get twelve deadhead jurists to see otherwise. Just like those twelve deadhead jurists found OJ innocent after a bunch of clever defense lawyer presentations with the glove, etc.
First of all, you're wrong. I guarantee you've had not coffee near your lap. That's assuming you've ever consumed any while sitting down anyway.
Secondly, the concept, again, is reasonable outcome. What is a reasonable outcome from spilling coffee on yourself? A burn, right? A FIRST DEGREE burn. 3rd degree? Not so much.
Consider a different example - car accident 100% your fault. Airbag deploys and... snaps your neck or shatters your face (actual example). Just suck it up, right? Accident 100% your fault even though the outcome was not reasonable?
@SanctionII said:
My recollection of the lawsuit over the split McDonald's coffee is that the cup of coffee was served to a drive through customer (an elderly woman in her 80's), that the coffee in the cup was heated to over 170 or 180 degrees, that while the coffee cup was being transferred to the woman customer (sitting in her car) somehow the cup was tipped over, or dropped (maybe because the surface of the cardboard or styrafoam cup was too hot to hold in one's hand due to the scalding hot coffee inside of the cup) and the coffee spilled out of the cup into the lap of the woman.
I can imagine the employee handling the cup of coffee carefully, holding it by the edge of the bottom of the cup or by the rim of the cup and handing it to the customer in the car who reaches with one or both hands to take the cup, placing her hands on the vertical surfaces of the cup (like placing your hand on a stove top that is turned on). One's natural reaction to holding a cup of overheated coffee in this manner would be to withdraw your hands. As a result the cup drops and the coffee spills.
The coffee falling into the lap of the elderly woman caused her to suffer major burn injuries to her abdomen, her thighs and her groin area. I assume that she was unable to stand up quickly (so the coffee could fall to the floor instead of soaking into her clothes and making contact with her body) because she is sitting in a car's driver's seat with the car 12-18 inches from the wall of the building in the drive through lane. She likely just ended up sitting in the seat while the scalding hot coffee soaked through her clothes and onto her body.
I understand that she had to be hospitalized and underwent multiple surgeries.
People may laugh and/or scoff at the idea of a lawsuit being filed over McDonald's coffee spilling on you and being too hot. When I first heard of this case I dismissed it. But when I learned more of the details of what went on I think that the lawsuit was justified. I assume the case settled.
As for being a White Male, there is no doubt that such a person is being made the object of derision and hate. White women will suffer the same fate. I am forever thankful that I am a white man who lives in the USA instead of being a white man who lives in South Africa.
I do not see any benefit to society in the USA to dividing its people into groups and pitting them against each other. It would be so much better if people simply identified themselves as "Americans" and did their best (work hard, find your passion, be self sufficient, take care of your family and community, and do not expect things to be handed to you) to make this country a great place for everyone.
Your recollections are not correct.
She was a passenger, not the driver.
The car was not moving, it was parked.
She was opening the coffee to put in creamer and/or sugar. The design of the lids can cause the cup to move/shake when it's taken off.
The coffee spilled directly into her lap with nowhere for her to go. It soaked through her sweatpants and into her groin where it then caused third degree burns requiring multiple skin grafts to treat.
Thats all very interesting because if what you say is true it seems like the TV coverage was heavily slanted with an eye to ridicule the woman , as a way to get the public to favor the company.
Other than an outstanding, balanced story on 60 Minutes, that's exactly what the news coverage was.
In fairness to the elevenwarriors site there are a lot of level headed posters there. A lot of biased nut jobs as well. That’s normal. Here was a screen shot of a poll I took shortly after this broke. Sentiment has been running 50/50 in most threads. I just want to see it played out without jumping to far ahead. At the very least Urban is a liar which isn’t news. I think the AD could end up being the fall guy. We shall see.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@stevek said:
I have never placed hot coffee near my lap ever. Might as well clean my .357 while it's loaded.
For anyone, let alone a likely frail 79 year old woman, to be fooling around trying to maneuver and remove a lid of hot coffee in the confines of a car, sorry to say is negligence on her part. The lady was 100% at fault. It was a totally frivolous lawsuit and we all know it.
However the scumbag trial lawyer was clever enough to get twelve deadhead jurists to see otherwise. Just like those twelve deadhead jurists found OJ innocent after a bunch of clever defense lawyer presentations with the glove, etc.
First of all, you're wrong. I guarantee you've had not coffee near your lap. That's assuming you've ever consumed any while sitting down anyway.
Secondly, the concept, again, is reasonable outcome. What is a reasonable outcome from spilling coffee on yourself? A burn, right? A FIRST DEGREE burn. 3rd degree? Not so much.
Consider a different example - car accident 100% your fault. Airbag deploys and... snaps your neck or shatters your face (actual example). Just suck it up, right? Accident 100% your fault even though the outcome was not reasonable?
I've never had a hot coffee cup near my lap. Because it's common sense, not to do that.
When someone is being careless with a potentially dangerous product, the reasonable outcome is a bad outcome. Just a question of how bad.
You airbag example comparison with the coffee is silly. That airbag is a defective product. There was nothing defective about the coffee.
In order to separate facts from the myths surrounding this infamous case, we've provided some of the key, undisputed facts shared at trial.
Company Policy on Coffee Temperature
McDonald's coffee was served at a temperature between 180 and 190 degrees Fahrenheit. McDonald's had long known that this was 20 to 30 degrees hotter than the coffee served at most other restaurants; in fact, this temperature range was indicated in its operations manual. In the 10 years before the case, more than 700 people who were scalded by coffee burns made claims against the company. But McDonald's never lowered the temperature of its coffee.
How the Coffee Actually Spilled
The plaintiff in the case was 79-year old Stella Liebeck. How her spill unfolded is widely misunderstood -- she was not driving a car when she was injured. In fact, she was not driving at all.
She had gone with her grandson, Chris, to take her son to the airport. On the way home, Chris pulled into a McDonald's drive-thru for breakfast. He parked the car so she could add cream and sugar to her coffee.
Because the car had no cup holders and a slanted dashboard, Stella Liebeck put the cup between her knees and removed the lid. As she did so, the slick Styrofoam cup flipped backwards, dumping the scalding liquid onto her lap and saturating the cotton sweat suit she was wearing.
Her grandson Chris jumped out to help, but the near-boiling coffee was already searing her skin. By the time Chris was able to bring her to the emergency room, she had third degree burns across her groin, thighs, genitalia and buttocks. Stella Liebeck was badly injured. All she remembered was the pain.
Initial Request for Coverage of Medical Expenses
Stella Liebeck spent seven days in the hospital. She spent another three weeks recovering at home, where her daughter traveled to take care of her.
Stella Liebeck's family initially asked McDonald's to cover her out-of-pocket expenses. This amounted to about $2,000 plus her daughter's lost wages. McDonald's offered $800.
McDonald's Knew the Coffee was Dangerously Hot
A McDonald's Quality Control manager testified that McDonald's knew of the risk of dangerously hot coffee. The company had no plans to either turn down the heat or warn their customers of the scalding danger. In fact, another McDonald's witness testified that they had received 700 complaints before Stella Liebeck's case.
McDonald's Refused to Pay Liebeck More Than $800
McDonald's refused to raise its compensation offer above $800. Stella Liebeck filed suit. Her lawsuit asked for $100,000 in compensatory damages (including for her pain and suffering) and triple punitive damages. These punitive damages were sought in order to send a message to McDonald's that their coffee was dangerously hot.
Liebeck Didn't Get 'Millions' From McDonald's
A month after the trial, the judge reduced the jury's punitive damages award of $2.7 million to $640,000. He reasoned that this amount was approximately three times the compensatory damages. He also said the case "was not a runaway" case and that the revised amount would be "appropriate to punish and deter" McDonald's for the safety hazards posed by its hot coffee. However, the parties entered into a settlement for less than $640,000 (the exact amount is unknown) in exchange for McDonald's dropping its planned appeal.
The McDonald's Hot Coffee Case Didn't Change Much
McDonald's still hasn't learned its lesson. Other people have reported similar injuries after spilling McDonald's coffee. In September 1997, a seventy-three year old woman suffered first and second degree burns when a cup of McDonald's coffee spilled on her lap. At the time, McDonald's still kept its coffee at 180 degrees Fahrenheit.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
In order to separate facts from the myths surrounding this infamous case, we've provided some of the key, undisputed facts shared at trial.
Company Policy on Coffee Temperature
McDonald's coffee was served at a temperature between 180 and 190 degrees Fahrenheit. McDonald's had long known that this was 20 to 30 degrees hotter than the coffee served at most other restaurants; in fact, this temperature range was indicated in its operations manual. In the 10 years before the case, more than 700 people who were scalded by coffee burns made claims against the company. But McDonald's never lowered the temperature of its coffee.
How the Coffee Actually Spilled
The plaintiff in the case was 79-year old Stella Liebeck. How her spill unfolded is widely misunderstood -- she was not driving a car when she was injured. In fact, she was not driving at all.
She had gone with her grandson, Chris, to take her son to the airport. On the way home, Chris pulled into a McDonald's drive-thru for breakfast. He parked the car so she could add cream and sugar to her coffee.
Because the car had no cup holders and a slanted dashboard, Stella Liebeck put the cup between her knees and removed the lid. As she did so, the slick Styrofoam cup flipped backwards, dumping the scalding liquid onto her lap and saturating the cotton sweat suit she was wearing.
Her grandson Chris jumped out to help, but the near-boiling coffee was already searing her skin. By the time Chris was able to bring her to the emergency room, she had third degree burns across her groin, thighs, genitalia and buttocks. Stella Liebeck was badly injured. All she remembered was the pain.
Initial Request for Coverage of Medical Expenses
Stella Liebeck spent seven days in the hospital. She spent another three weeks recovering at home, where her daughter traveled to take care of her.
Stella Liebeck's family initially asked McDonald's to cover her out-of-pocket expenses. This amounted to about $2,000 plus her daughter's lost wages. McDonald's offered $800.
McDonald's Knew the Coffee was Dangerously Hot
A McDonald's Quality Control manager testified that McDonald's knew of the risk of dangerously hot coffee. The company had no plans to either turn down the heat or warn their customers of the scalding danger. In fact, another McDonald's witness testified that they had received 700 complaints before Stella Liebeck's case.
McDonald's Refused to Pay Liebeck More Than $800
McDonald's refused to raise its compensation offer above $800. Stella Liebeck filed suit. Her lawsuit asked for $100,000 in compensatory damages (including for her pain and suffering) and triple punitive damages. These punitive damages were sought in order to send a message to McDonald's that their coffee was dangerously hot.
Liebeck Didn't Get 'Millions' From McDonald's
A month after the trial, the judge reduced the jury's punitive damages award of $2.7 million to $640,000. He reasoned that this amount was approximately three times the compensatory damages. He also said the case "was not a runaway" case and that the revised amount would be "appropriate to punish and deter" McDonald's for the safety hazards posed by its hot coffee. However, the parties entered into a settlement for less than $640,000 (the exact amount is unknown) in exchange for McDonald's dropping its planned appeal.
The McDonald's Hot Coffee Case Didn't Change Much
McDonald's still hasn't learned its lesson. Other people have reported similar injuries after spilling McDonald's coffee. In September 1997, a seventy-three year old woman suffered first and second degree burns when a cup of McDonald's coffee spilled on her lap. At the time, McDonald's still kept its coffee at 180 degrees Fahrenheit.
m
I've read where Starbucks coffee is even hotter. So I guess Jackie Chiles should figure out a way to extort money thru the legal system from Starbucks.
@Justacommeman - If this is all true and I would assume it is ……. as it looks like a lot of research was done here..... I would say the lady had a very good case and Micky D's got what they deserved.
In order to separate facts from the myths surrounding this infamous case, we've provided some of the key, undisputed facts shared at trial.
Company Policy on Coffee Temperature
McDonald's coffee was served at a temperature between 180 and 190 degrees Fahrenheit. McDonald's had long known that this was 20 to 30 degrees hotter than the coffee served at most other restaurants; in fact, this temperature range was indicated in its operations manual. In the 10 years before the case, more than 700 people who were scalded by coffee burns made claims against the company. But McDonald's never lowered the temperature of its coffee.
How the Coffee Actually Spilled
The plaintiff in the case was 79-year old Stella Liebeck. How her spill unfolded is widely misunderstood -- she was not driving a car when she was injured. In fact, she was not driving at all.
She had gone with her grandson, Chris, to take her son to the airport. On the way home, Chris pulled into a McDonald's drive-thru for breakfast. He parked the car so she could add cream and sugar to her coffee.
Because the car had no cup holders and a slanted dashboard, Stella Liebeck put the cup between her knees and removed the lid. As she did so, the slick Styrofoam cup flipped backwards, dumping the scalding liquid onto her lap and saturating the cotton sweat suit she was wearing.
Her grandson Chris jumped out to help, but the near-boiling coffee was already searing her skin. By the time Chris was able to bring her to the emergency room, she had third degree burns across her groin, thighs, genitalia and buttocks. Stella Liebeck was badly injured. All she remembered was the pain.
Initial Request for Coverage of Medical Expenses
Stella Liebeck spent seven days in the hospital. She spent another three weeks recovering at home, where her daughter traveled to take care of her.
Stella Liebeck's family initially asked McDonald's to cover her out-of-pocket expenses. This amounted to about $2,000 plus her daughter's lost wages. McDonald's offered $800.
McDonald's Knew the Coffee was Dangerously Hot
A McDonald's Quality Control manager testified that McDonald's knew of the risk of dangerously hot coffee. The company had no plans to either turn down the heat or warn their customers of the scalding danger. In fact, another McDonald's witness testified that they had received 700 complaints before Stella Liebeck's case.
McDonald's Refused to Pay Liebeck More Than $800
McDonald's refused to raise its compensation offer above $800. Stella Liebeck filed suit. Her lawsuit asked for $100,000 in compensatory damages (including for her pain and suffering) and triple punitive damages. These punitive damages were sought in order to send a message to McDonald's that their coffee was dangerously hot.
Liebeck Didn't Get 'Millions' From McDonald's
A month after the trial, the judge reduced the jury's punitive damages award of $2.7 million to $640,000. He reasoned that this amount was approximately three times the compensatory damages. He also said the case "was not a runaway" case and that the revised amount would be "appropriate to punish and deter" McDonald's for the safety hazards posed by its hot coffee. However, the parties entered into a settlement for less than $640,000 (the exact amount is unknown) in exchange for McDonald's dropping its planned appeal.
The McDonald's Hot Coffee Case Didn't Change Much
McDonald's still hasn't learned its lesson. Other people have reported similar injuries after spilling McDonald's coffee. In September 1997, a seventy-three year old woman suffered first and second degree burns when a cup of McDonald's coffee spilled on her lap. At the time, McDonald's still kept its coffee at 180 degrees Fahrenheit.
m
I've read where Starbucks coffee is even hotter. So I guess Jackie Chiles should figure out a way to extort money thru the legal system from Starbucks.
starbucks blows though so who is going to go there to get burned? Hipsters? Burn this guy twice
@DIMEMAN said: @Justacommeman - If this is all true and I would assume it is ……. as it looks like a lot of research was done here..... I would say the lady had a very good case and Micky D's got what they deserved.
Jon those are the facts of the case and 12 jurors sided with the plantiff. That’s all I know and all I got.
I like my coffee piping hot so selfishly I want them to keep serving hot. Their cups have always sucked as does leaky Starbucks. I’m a Dunkin Donuts/ Tim Hortons man
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
In order to separate facts from the myths surrounding this infamous case, we've provided some of the key, undisputed facts shared at trial.
Company Policy on Coffee Temperature
McDonald's coffee was served at a temperature between 180 and 190 degrees Fahrenheit. McDonald's had long known that this was 20 to 30 degrees hotter than the coffee served at most other restaurants; in fact, this temperature range was indicated in its operations manual. In the 10 years before the case, more than 700 people who were scalded by coffee burns made claims against the company. But McDonald's never lowered the temperature of its coffee.
How the Coffee Actually Spilled
The plaintiff in the case was 79-year old Stella Liebeck. How her spill unfolded is widely misunderstood -- she was not driving a car when she was injured. In fact, she was not driving at all.
She had gone with her grandson, Chris, to take her son to the airport. On the way home, Chris pulled into a McDonald's drive-thru for breakfast. He parked the car so she could add cream and sugar to her coffee.
Because the car had no cup holders and a slanted dashboard, Stella Liebeck put the cup between her knees and removed the lid. As she did so, the slick Styrofoam cup flipped backwards, dumping the scalding liquid onto her lap and saturating the cotton sweat suit she was wearing.
Her grandson Chris jumped out to help, but the near-boiling coffee was already searing her skin. By the time Chris was able to bring her to the emergency room, she had third degree burns across her groin, thighs, genitalia and buttocks. Stella Liebeck was badly injured. All she remembered was the pain.
Initial Request for Coverage of Medical Expenses
Stella Liebeck spent seven days in the hospital. She spent another three weeks recovering at home, where her daughter traveled to take care of her.
Stella Liebeck's family initially asked McDonald's to cover her out-of-pocket expenses. This amounted to about $2,000 plus her daughter's lost wages. McDonald's offered $800.
McDonald's Knew the Coffee was Dangerously Hot
A McDonald's Quality Control manager testified that McDonald's knew of the risk of dangerously hot coffee. The company had no plans to either turn down the heat or warn their customers of the scalding danger. In fact, another McDonald's witness testified that they had received 700 complaints before Stella Liebeck's case.
McDonald's Refused to Pay Liebeck More Than $800
McDonald's refused to raise its compensation offer above $800. Stella Liebeck filed suit. Her lawsuit asked for $100,000 in compensatory damages (including for her pain and suffering) and triple punitive damages. These punitive damages were sought in order to send a message to McDonald's that their coffee was dangerously hot.
Liebeck Didn't Get 'Millions' From McDonald's
A month after the trial, the judge reduced the jury's punitive damages award of $2.7 million to $640,000. He reasoned that this amount was approximately three times the compensatory damages. He also said the case "was not a runaway" case and that the revised amount would be "appropriate to punish and deter" McDonald's for the safety hazards posed by its hot coffee. However, the parties entered into a settlement for less than $640,000 (the exact amount is unknown) in exchange for McDonald's dropping its planned appeal.
The McDonald's Hot Coffee Case Didn't Change Much
McDonald's still hasn't learned its lesson. Other people have reported similar injuries after spilling McDonald's coffee. In September 1997, a seventy-three year old woman suffered first and second degree burns when a cup of McDonald's coffee spilled on her lap. At the time, McDonald's still kept its coffee at 180 degrees Fahrenheit.
m
I've read where Starbucks coffee is even hotter. So I guess Jackie Chiles should figure out a way to extort money thru the legal system from Starbucks.
starbucks blows though so who is going to go there to get burned? Hipsters? Burn this guy twice
I've never spent a red cent at Starbucks for a number of reasons.
And i haven't patronized McDonalds in a very long time. Mainly because having clogged arteries isn't on my wish list. LOL
The facts of the McDonald's coffee case mentioned in this thread by those who dug them up leads me to question what exactly was it that McDonald's did wrong. Is it merely serving coffee that is "too hot" (however you define that term)?
If so, it would appear that McDonald's (and other businesses) are legally obligated to anticipate that people (customers, vendors, heck even trespassers, etc.) that the business interacts with can and will be idiots; and thus must created business practices that reduce the chances that the idiots will hurt themselves.
The elderly lady (regardless of how sympathetic she may be), imo, bears some responsibility for what happened to her. Not very smart to place a cardboard or styrafoam cup of filled with hot liquid between your legs and then take the lid off. I am sure that the settlement that was reached to avoid an appeal by McDonald's of the jury award (after the judge reduced same) was fair all the way around, given the time, expense and uncertainty of further litigation.
In any event I hope the lady fully recovered from her injuries.
I am sure that the settlement that was reached to avoid an appeal by McDonald's of the jury award (after the judge reduced same) was fair all the way around, given the time, expense and uncertainty of further litigation.
In any event I hope the lady fully recovered from her injuries.
that’s exactly my thought as well
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<<< She had gone with her grandson, Chris, to take her son to the airport. On the way home, Chris pulled into a McDonald's drive-thru for breakfast. He parked the car so she could add cream and sugar to her coffee. >>>
Ya also gotta wonder what the grandson was thinking? I mean adding cream and sugar to hot coffee in a car isn't an easy simple task for anyone, let alone a 79 year old. Why didn't he do that for her?
Maybe it's he whom she should have sued for grandson negligence?
The grandson likely did not have deep pockets and/or liability insurance. Suing someone who has no ability to pay any judgment filed against him or her is not an economically wise thing to do.
On top of the above, suing family members is a lose-lose proposition.
Back to OSU and Meyer.
While socializing at a local coffee shop this a.m. I spoke with some Buckeye football fans and alums. One of the points of discussion was the issue of exactly what is to be expected of people (i.e. Meyer) when they are told something or learn of something (from first hand observation, second hand, third hand, etc., etc.) where someone is treated badly. There was no consensus reached over coffee.
If "abuse" is to be reported by someone (i.e. Meyer), what is the definition of "abuse"? Physical, sexual, emotional, psychological, medical, political, athletic, academic, etc. abuse?
Further, does it matter who the recipient of the abuse is and/or who the abuser is? Does someone (i.e. Meyer) have any obligation to report to any specific person or entity? If so, who (work superior, police, district attorney, Child Protection Services, Adult Protection Services, etc.)?
Does someone (i.e. Meyer) have an obligation to do something other than "report"? Does he have to take action and indulge in "self help"?
I understand that in this current situation an OSU assistant coach is claimed to have "abused" his wife; that the abused wife is friends with Meyer's wife, that the abused wife told Meyer's wife about the abuse she suffered; and that Meyer's wife may have told Meyer what her friend told her. If Meyer was aware of this, many claim he should have reported same (whether he should have or should not have; and whether he did or did not is to be determined I guess).
Change the facts and instead of it being the wife of an assistant coach, assume that it was the gardener (a 30 year old healthy man or woman) who cuts the grass and does other work at the home of the assistant coach that was abused. For example. the assistant coach did not like how the gardener cut the grass and did trimming of plants. They got into an argument and the assistant coach punched the gardener in the face in response to the gardener calling the assistant coach an SOB. The wife of the assistant coach saw what happened, told Meyer's wife and Meyer's wife told him.
In this scenario does Meyer have an obligation to report the "abuse" of the gardener by the assistant coach? If he does, and fails to report this abuse of the gardener, should Meyer be suspended or fired once his failure to report the "abuse" of the gardener by the assistant coach becomes known? If he does not have an obligation to report the abuse of the gardener, why is that? What is the reason why the gardener is not protected by the obligation to report abuse while other persons are?
In other words, exactly what is it that someone (i.e. Meyer) is supposed to do? What are the parameters of the reporting obligations that are placed on Meyer?
In other words, exactly what is it that someone (i.e. Meyer) is supposed to do? What are the parameters of the reporting obligations that are placed on Meyer?
Your thoughts?
What did you think of what Tabe wrote. It’ speaks to some of your points no?
I think what a lot of people are missing here is that this has nothing to do with "PC culture" or Ohio State being wusses or anything of that nature.
Urban Meyer and his wife are both mandatory reporters. That means they are required by law to report any inkling of sexual abuse, sexual violence, or domestic violence of any kind. Can be first-hand, second-hand, whatever. The laws are written to enable children to come forward on behalf of friends who are being abused by apply to adults as well. There's no question that Meyer's wife violated the law by not reporting. She'll lose her job for certain. And, unless you believe that Meyer somehow wasn't told about this stuff by his wife (a pretty much inconceivable circumstance), then he, too, violated the law by not reporting. And then lied about it to the press as well.
In addition to the law aspects of it, when Meyer got his most recent contract extension, Ohio State wrote into the contract what is basically a Joe Paterno clause - he can be fired, with cause, for failing to report domestic abuse allegations. Again - first-hand, second-hand, whatever.
I would be STUNNED if he's still employed at Ohio State by the time the season starts.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I would be stunned as well, Mark. But I am equally stunned that Sean Miller is still employed at my neighborhood university. Money is a seductive aphrodisiac.
That “I would be stunned” comment was from Tabe. I just copied and pasted his post in its entirety. At first I thought it would be hard to for Urban to keep his job as well. Now I actually think the AD Smith will be served up instead.
As for MSU coaches and Sean Miller I’m a little surprised as well. For the record I hope Urban was “only” lying and keeps his job. Seems sports are more important then I thought. Lying is so accepted these days.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I see OSU just announced a two week time line on this. Thank goodness
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
That “I would be stunned” comment was from Tabe. I just copied and pasted his post in its entirety. At first I thought it would be hard to for Urban to keep his job as well. Now I actually think the AD Smith will be served up instead.
As for MSU coaches and Sean Miller I’m a little surprised as well. For the record I hope Urban was “only” lying and keeps his job. Seems sports are more important then I thought. Lying is so accepted these days.
mark
Tough to determine who is saying what, around here anymore.
That “I would be stunned” comment was from Tabe. I just copied and pasted his post in its entirety. At first I thought it would be hard to for Urban to keep his job as well. Now I actually think the AD Smith will be served up instead.
As for MSU coaches and Sean Miller I’m a little surprised as well. For the record I hope Urban was “only” lying and keeps his job. Seems sports are more important then I thought. Lying is so accepted these days.
mark
Tough to determine who is saying what, around here anymore.
I see dead people
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I've never had a hot coffee cup near my lap. Because it's common sense, not to do that.
So you've never drank coffee? Ever? I'm sitting down right now. If I were drinking coffee - which I don't do, hate the stuff - the cup would be approximately 16-18" from my lap, if that. I would call that "near".
You airbag example comparison with the coffee is silly. That airbag is a defective product. There was nothing defective about the coffee.
Depends on how you define defective. 20-30 degrees hotter than recommended (hot enough to actually burn the coffee itself) after already having multiple settlements with injured consumers could easily be interpreted as "defective".
Comments
I know some of you probably think that I’m a closet racist but I promise you I have more Latino and black friends than any of you, I spent a very long time working with and policing Black and Spanish guys and not once ever have I been accused of being racist or unfair to anyone because of race or creed. I have also had many discussions over the years with minority LE and first degree murderers who would literally slash your throat if they felt disrespected and they all agree that 99% of issues would be non issues if people kept it “real” and showed MUTUAL respect, that is the underlying issue with most social issues. > @keets said:
Maybe you should take a step back, I did not direct this at you personally did I? I responded to what was in your post- quote or not I never directed it at “Keets” so why don’t you settle down
I looked up the McDonald's case. The woman was 79 years old. The woman was holding the coffee cup between her legs, tired to remove the lid and it spilled. Different facts that what I recalled previously.
I remember listening to a radio talk show about this and it was claimed that McDonald's had been in trouble for their coffee burning customers prior to this incident and was warned that they needed to lower the temperature. They refused and when the elderly woman was burned, they got the hammer.
It was also noted that McDonalds made enough profits on just coffee sales in one week to pay the fine.
No pity for them from me.
Interesting point that McDonald's has NOT changed their coffee temperature policy:
Pasted from Wiki:
Since Liebeck, McDonald's has not reduced the service temperature of its coffee. McDonald's policy today is to serve coffee at 80–90 °C (176–194 °F),[33] relying on more sternly worded warnings on cups made of rigid foam to avoid future liability, though it continues to face lawsuits over hot coffee.[33][34] The Specialty Coffee Association of America supports improved packaging methods rather than lowering the temperature at which coffee is served. The association has successfully aided the defense of subsequent coffee burn cases.[35] Similarly, as of 2004, Starbucks sells coffee at 175–185 °F (79–85 °C), and the executive director of the Specialty Coffee Association of America reported that the standard serving temperature is 160–185 °F (71–85 °C).
I'll tell ya what though...next time i burn my tongue or mouth from hot soup, I'm contacting Jackie Chiles.
I burned my finger once on a frosted Pop Tart and it blistered badly. I was working at a Ford plant the summer before I went to college. The plant gave me a one handed job with a caliper rather then me running 40 lb transmission housings. They forgot to take me off of the one handed job and I didn’t exactly remind them. I thought I was winning. I should have called Saul instead
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I doubt if they forgot. You were likely doing an excellent job there so why pull ya?
Ah yes, good old Pop Tarts. One of the finer foods that chemistry can make. LOL
Frosted raspberry Pop Tarts are dangerous, lol..
SteveK, if you get burned after meeting with Chiles just remeber not to balm on!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
For many years i have eaten extremely healthy. For example, all the fruits and vegetables I consume are always organic.
The only minor problem with organic is since they don't use any pesticides, occasionally ya find an insect in there. So i'll have to check with Jackie and see if I can sue for a worm in an apple. I think that Jackie will likely say that we have a good case. LOL
Different facts that what I recalled previously
Kevin, your correction is what I recall the initial story reporting.
to everyone else who wants to climb on me for my "White Men" comment, understand that I'm a White Man, then go back a page and read what Bronco posted. in the end it's about money and power and the sad truth is that White Men control both. you post links about other Races and Cultures, like South Africa, where stuff similarly happens here in our Homeland we all know who is in charge and what the nature of the "good ol' Boy" network is.
that is my perhaps poorly worded point.
those in power will always work to protect the power and the money. that is what Urban Meyer chose to do. he lied about knowing even though he had reported!!! why would he do that?? where did he think the questions were coming from and how did he think the story got back to him?? I learned a long time ago that intelligent people often do stupid things and such is the case here. knowing what is currently being reported it seems to me that Meyer should keep his job because he did what he was required to do by reporting what he knew when he learned it. by telling "the Lie" about knowing, well, the Media will punish him for that(and it won't be FAKE NEWS).
of course, there is always the chance that this story will change.......................again.
You are using the word of a 3 letter agency to throw a guy under the bus that was murdered 50 years ago by some other 3 letter agency ?
Good luck with that son
To follow up on this, that case is actually a perfect example of the jury getting it right and ignoring the headlines. All one needs to do is see the damage the coffee inflicted to know that the outcome of the spill was far beyond reasonable. The jury did, in fact, find Stella, partly responsible for what happened. They (correctly) deemed that the extent of the damage was not her fault, thus the award.
Your recollections are not correct.
She was a passenger, not the driver.
The car was not moving, it was parked.
She was opening the coffee to put in creamer and/or sugar. The design of the lids can cause the cup to move/shake when it's taken off.
The coffee spilled directly into her lap with nowhere for her to go. It soaked through her sweatpants and into her groin where it then caused third degree burns requiring multiple skin grafts to treat.
And Sanction, I now see you corrected yourself. Sorry about that!
I have never placed hot coffee near my lap ever. Might as well clean my .357 while it's loaded.
For anyone, let alone a likely frail 79 year old woman, to be fooling around trying to maneuver and remove a lid of hot coffee in the confines of a car, sorry to say is negligence on her part. The lady was 100% at fault. It was a totally frivolous lawsuit and we all know it.
However the scumbag trial lawyer was clever enough to get twelve deadhead jurists to see otherwise. Just like those twelve deadhead jurists found OJ innocent after a bunch of clever defense lawyer presentations with the glove, etc.
It was a totally frivolous lawsuit and we all know it
I thought the whole thing was ridiculous and just the result of someone being careless. I'm pretty sure you can tell them "with cream and sugar" and it's added, right??? why would you try to open the cup over your lap and then claim a poorly designed lid as the cause?? it might be poorly designed if it was easy to take off, but not stay on.
Thats all very interesting because if what you say is true it seems like the TV coverage was heavily slanted with an eye to ridicule the woman , as a way to get the public to favor the company.
First of all, you're wrong. I guarantee you've had not coffee near your lap. That's assuming you've ever consumed any while sitting down anyway.
Secondly, the concept, again, is reasonable outcome. What is a reasonable outcome from spilling coffee on yourself? A burn, right? A FIRST DEGREE burn. 3rd degree? Not so much.
Consider a different example - car accident 100% your fault. Airbag deploys and... snaps your neck or shatters your face (actual example). Just suck it up, right? Accident 100% your fault even though the outcome was not reasonable?
Other than an outstanding, balanced story on 60 Minutes, that's exactly what the news coverage was.
Brett McMurphy Changed His Story AFTER Urban's Comments at Big 10 Media Day.
https://www.elevenwarriors.com/forum/ohio-state-football/2018/08/94977/mcmurphy-changed-his-story-after-urbans-comments-at-big-10-media-day-important-read
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
It should, but I'm not holding my breath.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
From coffee law suits to JFK schtupping in the WH. This has gotten off the rails.
eleven warriors ??? More like Ohio state daily rump swab and ball polisher they would help cover up anything that might hurt their precious .
Nice try though
In fairness to the elevenwarriors site there are a lot of level headed posters there. A lot of biased nut jobs as well. That’s normal. Here was a screen shot of a poll I took shortly after this broke. Sentiment has been running 50/50 in most threads. I just want to see it played out without jumping to far ahead. At the very least Urban is a liar which isn’t news. I think the AD could end up being the fall guy. We shall see.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I've never had a hot coffee cup near my lap. Because it's common sense, not to do that.
When someone is being careless with a potentially dangerous product, the reasonable outcome is a bad outcome. Just a question of how bad.
You airbag example comparison with the coffee is silly. That airbag is a defective product. There was nothing defective about the coffee.
For what it’s worth
McDonald's Hot Coffee Case: The Facts
In order to separate facts from the myths surrounding this infamous case, we've provided some of the key, undisputed facts shared at trial.
Company Policy on Coffee Temperature
McDonald's coffee was served at a temperature between 180 and 190 degrees Fahrenheit. McDonald's had long known that this was 20 to 30 degrees hotter than the coffee served at most other restaurants; in fact, this temperature range was indicated in its operations manual. In the 10 years before the case, more than 700 people who were scalded by coffee burns made claims against the company. But McDonald's never lowered the temperature of its coffee.
How the Coffee Actually Spilled
The plaintiff in the case was 79-year old Stella Liebeck. How her spill unfolded is widely misunderstood -- she was not driving a car when she was injured. In fact, she was not driving at all.
She had gone with her grandson, Chris, to take her son to the airport. On the way home, Chris pulled into a McDonald's drive-thru for breakfast. He parked the car so she could add cream and sugar to her coffee.
Because the car had no cup holders and a slanted dashboard, Stella Liebeck put the cup between her knees and removed the lid. As she did so, the slick Styrofoam cup flipped backwards, dumping the scalding liquid onto her lap and saturating the cotton sweat suit she was wearing.
Her grandson Chris jumped out to help, but the near-boiling coffee was already searing her skin. By the time Chris was able to bring her to the emergency room, she had third degree burns across her groin, thighs, genitalia and buttocks. Stella Liebeck was badly injured. All she remembered was the pain.
Initial Request for Coverage of Medical Expenses
Stella Liebeck spent seven days in the hospital. She spent another three weeks recovering at home, where her daughter traveled to take care of her.
Stella Liebeck's family initially asked McDonald's to cover her out-of-pocket expenses. This amounted to about $2,000 plus her daughter's lost wages. McDonald's offered $800.
McDonald's Knew the Coffee was Dangerously Hot
A McDonald's Quality Control manager testified that McDonald's knew of the risk of dangerously hot coffee. The company had no plans to either turn down the heat or warn their customers of the scalding danger. In fact, another McDonald's witness testified that they had received 700 complaints before Stella Liebeck's case.
McDonald's Refused to Pay Liebeck More Than $800
McDonald's refused to raise its compensation offer above $800. Stella Liebeck filed suit. Her lawsuit asked for $100,000 in compensatory damages (including for her pain and suffering) and triple punitive damages. These punitive damages were sought in order to send a message to McDonald's that their coffee was dangerously hot.
Liebeck Didn't Get 'Millions' From McDonald's
A month after the trial, the judge reduced the jury's punitive damages award of $2.7 million to $640,000. He reasoned that this amount was approximately three times the compensatory damages. He also said the case "was not a runaway" case and that the revised amount would be "appropriate to punish and deter" McDonald's for the safety hazards posed by its hot coffee. However, the parties entered into a settlement for less than $640,000 (the exact amount is unknown) in exchange for McDonald's dropping its planned appeal.
The McDonald's Hot Coffee Case Didn't Change Much
McDonald's still hasn't learned its lesson. Other people have reported similar injuries after spilling McDonald's coffee. In September 1997, a seventy-three year old woman suffered first and second degree burns when a cup of McDonald's coffee spilled on her lap. At the time, McDonald's still kept its coffee at 180 degrees Fahrenheit.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I've read where Starbucks coffee is even hotter. So I guess Jackie Chiles should figure out a way to extort money thru the legal system from Starbucks.
@Justacommeman - If this is all true and I would assume it is ……. as it looks like a lot of research was done here..... I would say the lady had a very good case and Micky D's got what they deserved.
starbucks blows though so who is going to go there to get burned? Hipsters? Burn this guy twice
Jon those are the facts of the case and 12 jurors sided with the plantiff. That’s all I know and all I got.
I like my coffee piping hot so selfishly I want them to keep serving hot. Their cups have always sucked as does leaky Starbucks. I’m a Dunkin Donuts/ Tim Hortons man
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I've never spent a red cent at Starbucks for a number of reasons.
And i haven't patronized McDonalds in a very long time. Mainly because having clogged arteries isn't on my wish list. LOL
The facts of the McDonald's coffee case mentioned in this thread by those who dug them up leads me to question what exactly was it that McDonald's did wrong. Is it merely serving coffee that is "too hot" (however you define that term)?
If so, it would appear that McDonald's (and other businesses) are legally obligated to anticipate that people (customers, vendors, heck even trespassers, etc.) that the business interacts with can and will be idiots; and thus must created business practices that reduce the chances that the idiots will hurt themselves.
The elderly lady (regardless of how sympathetic she may be), imo, bears some responsibility for what happened to her. Not very smart to place a cardboard or styrafoam cup of filled with hot liquid between your legs and then take the lid off. I am sure that the settlement that was reached to avoid an appeal by McDonald's of the jury award (after the judge reduced same) was fair all the way around, given the time, expense and uncertainty of further litigation.
In any event I hope the lady fully recovered from her injuries.
I don't drink coffee and like my soup luke warm...…...so I guess I will never get burned!
I am sure that the settlement that was reached to avoid an appeal by McDonald's of the jury award (after the judge reduced same) was fair all the way around, given the time, expense and uncertainty of further litigation.
that’s exactly my thought as well
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<<< She had gone with her grandson, Chris, to take her son to the airport. On the way home, Chris pulled into a McDonald's drive-thru for breakfast. He parked the car so she could add cream and sugar to her coffee. >>>
Ya also gotta wonder what the grandson was thinking? I mean adding cream and sugar to hot coffee in a car isn't an easy simple task for anyone, let alone a 79 year old. Why didn't he do that for her?
Maybe it's he whom she should have sued for grandson negligence?
The grandson likely did not have deep pockets and/or liability insurance. Suing someone who has no ability to pay any judgment filed against him or her is not an economically wise thing to do.
On top of the above, suing family members is a lose-lose proposition.
Back to OSU and Meyer.
While socializing at a local coffee shop this a.m. I spoke with some Buckeye football fans and alums. One of the points of discussion was the issue of exactly what is to be expected of people (i.e. Meyer) when they are told something or learn of something (from first hand observation, second hand, third hand, etc., etc.) where someone is treated badly. There was no consensus reached over coffee.
If "abuse" is to be reported by someone (i.e. Meyer), what is the definition of "abuse"? Physical, sexual, emotional, psychological, medical, political, athletic, academic, etc. abuse?
Further, does it matter who the recipient of the abuse is and/or who the abuser is? Does someone (i.e. Meyer) have any obligation to report to any specific person or entity? If so, who (work superior, police, district attorney, Child Protection Services, Adult Protection Services, etc.)?
Does someone (i.e. Meyer) have an obligation to do something other than "report"? Does he have to take action and indulge in "self help"?
I understand that in this current situation an OSU assistant coach is claimed to have "abused" his wife; that the abused wife is friends with Meyer's wife, that the abused wife told Meyer's wife about the abuse she suffered; and that Meyer's wife may have told Meyer what her friend told her. If Meyer was aware of this, many claim he should have reported same (whether he should have or should not have; and whether he did or did not is to be determined I guess).
Change the facts and instead of it being the wife of an assistant coach, assume that it was the gardener (a 30 year old healthy man or woman) who cuts the grass and does other work at the home of the assistant coach that was abused. For example. the assistant coach did not like how the gardener cut the grass and did trimming of plants. They got into an argument and the assistant coach punched the gardener in the face in response to the gardener calling the assistant coach an SOB. The wife of the assistant coach saw what happened, told Meyer's wife and Meyer's wife told him.
In this scenario does Meyer have an obligation to report the "abuse" of the gardener by the assistant coach? If he does, and fails to report this abuse of the gardener, should Meyer be suspended or fired once his failure to report the "abuse" of the gardener by the assistant coach becomes known? If he does not have an obligation to report the abuse of the gardener, why is that? What is the reason why the gardener is not protected by the obligation to report abuse while other persons are?
In other words, exactly what is it that someone (i.e. Meyer) is supposed to do? What are the parameters of the reporting obligations that are placed on Meyer?
Your thoughts?
What did you think of what Tabe wrote. It’ speaks to some of your points no?
I think what a lot of people are missing here is that this has nothing to do with "PC culture" or Ohio State being wusses or anything of that nature.
Urban Meyer and his wife are both mandatory reporters. That means they are required by law to report any inkling of sexual abuse, sexual violence, or domestic violence of any kind. Can be first-hand, second-hand, whatever. The laws are written to enable children to come forward on behalf of friends who are being abused by apply to adults as well. There's no question that Meyer's wife violated the law by not reporting. She'll lose her job for certain. And, unless you believe that Meyer somehow wasn't told about this stuff by his wife (a pretty much inconceivable circumstance), then he, too, violated the law by not reporting. And then lied about it to the press as well.
In addition to the law aspects of it, when Meyer got his most recent contract extension, Ohio State wrote into the contract what is basically a Joe Paterno clause - he can be fired, with cause, for failing to report domestic abuse allegations. Again - first-hand, second-hand, whatever.
I would be STUNNED if he's still employed at Ohio State by the time the season starts.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I would be stunned as well, Mark. But I am equally stunned that Sean Miller is still employed at my neighborhood university. Money is a seductive aphrodisiac.
I wonder how the Michigan State coaches kept their jobs after that huge scandal? When everyone thought they would get fired.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
@coinstartled
@garnettstyle
That “I would be stunned” comment was from Tabe. I just copied and pasted his post in its entirety. At first I thought it would be hard to for Urban to keep his job as well. Now I actually think the AD Smith will be served up instead.
As for MSU coaches and Sean Miller I’m a little surprised as well. For the record I hope Urban was “only” lying and keeps his job. Seems sports are more important then I thought. Lying is so accepted these days.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I see OSU just announced a two week time line on this. Thank goodness
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Tough to determine who is saying what, around here anymore.
I see dead people
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Ask Max Mehl what he did with the 8 x 10"s of the 1804 dollar.
So you've never drank coffee? Ever? I'm sitting down right now. If I were drinking coffee - which I don't do, hate the stuff - the cup would be approximately 16-18" from my lap, if that. I would call that "near".
Depends on how you define defective. 20-30 degrees hotter than recommended (hot enough to actually burn the coffee itself) after already having multiple settlements with injured consumers could easily be interpreted as "defective".