Old New England Collection Yields 3 1907 High Relief $20's
DaveWcoins
Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭
This sounds like "click bait", but it is true.
Every once in a while, as a dealer you come across a really cool collection that makes going through all of those piles of "stuff" (modern proof & mint sets, modern world coins by the ton) worthwhile. This is one such collection.
I picked it up yesterday. This collection is a bit of a time capsule. It was formed by a president of a small bank in New England, who was employed from the 1920's through the early 1960's. It has sat in a safety deposit box since that time.
He obviously was a bit of a collector. He must have had his tellers put aside any unusual coins and paper money they came across. Lots of really interesting stuff, but what might be the coolest (and certainly the items with the most monetary value) was this group of 3 high relief $20's:
They are off to PCGS in the morning. But I though I'd share this with y'all.
Comments
Quite a find. The high relief $20s look so much better than their low relief siblings. It is too bad they didn't stack well.
Holy cow. Just goes to show what's still out there, waiting to be discovered...
I have read that getting you hands on a High Relief $20 gold at face face value was almost impossible, even in 1908. He must have had some influence, or perhaps he picked them up during 1930s when people mistakenly surrended them during FDR's gold re-call.
The biggest problem was that it took three blows from the dies to bring up the design. The procedure included annealing (heating) the coin before each strike. All that made them too expensive for the mint to produce them on a regular basis. Theodore Roosevelt won’t give up on the coin, until this was shown to him in a practical way.
Or simply spent them during the depression for life
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Great stuff. Who knows what is in sdb's out there. That is what makes playing the condition rarity game scary for me.
I haven't seen one with toning before. I like it.
Those are absolutely beautiful gold coins... Let us know what they grade... Cheers, RickO
Great find!
Sunshine Rare Coins
sunshinecoins.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html
Cool stuff! Hoping to see them at the ANA show.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I have seen them with copper stains. Unfortunately it makes them harder to sell to some people.
Many of the "Omega's" (undipped originals) I encountered over the years had that typical hazy film ("skin") with a maroon tinge around the letters. It was slightly darker than this one.
I'm extremely happy for the OP and the fact that more HR coins have turned up. They are my favorite coin and have always been just out of reach in the condition I want. Julian Leidmand offered me a true "gem" decades ago for $4K.
In the 1970's Walter Perski (sp?) brought an EXHR to the authentication service. He had been shown three or four (can't remember) HR coins and given his pick. He took the EXHR and told us he knew it was either a very special coin or a counterfeit so he wanted us to authenticate it. I don't know where he got the coin. Then in the 1980's, I went to Princeton, NJ with my boss to authenticate a group of four HR coins from the widow of a government official. As I recall, he bought them.
Sweetl find Dave! What do you grade them?
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
wow, neat
what else was there in the collection?
BHNC #203
Very cool finds, and a great story behind them.
You could probably offer these to Larry Lee - I think he has a couple dozen already (or did a few years ago), and may want to grab these, before a hoarder gets them.
what else was there in the collection?
Yes, inquiring minds want to know!
I'm envisioning high grade early walkers and standing lib quarters in bulk!
Wow, amazing. Absolutely gorgeous pieces. Good luck on the grading and keep us posted !!
I need oxygen
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
@DaveWcoins : Since you have 3 raw examples, why not try stacking them to see if it is as difficult as reported? Yeah, it might cost you a grade or two, but think of the invaluable knowledge than can be gained.
Never mind. Bill Jones got to this question first.
When released, these piece never made it to commercial banks. Almost all were bought up by staff at Sub-Treasuries and resold. After a few years, the novelty wore off and coin entered limited bank circulation.
Where did the story about stacking problems come from? I know it has been around for many, many years. It seems that even in the ancient days before the internet you couldn't believe everything you read.
"Coins won't stack" is a common phrase used in newspapers and occasionally bankers to describe coins that did not pile to the same height as a preceding design. Most people misunderstand it to mean that piles of the coins "wobbled" or were otherwise unstable.
The "stains" come off in seconds! Additionally, some might prefer it.
I should like to see that also. It could be done very easily and carefully with no harm to the coins at all. Pretend you are playing pick-up-sticks and move extremely slowly!
That’s great Dave, awesome find. Hope to see them at the ANA
Latin American Collection
The word “stacking” has two meanings with respect to gold coins. Yes, it could mean the coin literally did not stack well, one on top of the other, but there was another more obscure meaning.
Those who counted gold coin got to know the “touch” of how many pieces they were holding when they grabbed a small pile of them. It made counting a lot faster. One of the things those folks didn’t like about the new gold coin pieces such as the $2.50 and $5.00 Indian coins was that they were not quite the same thickness and did not have the “feel” as the old Liberty Head design coins. I’m sure they would have had the same complaint about the High Relief $20 gold, but I doubt that many of those coins ever made to very many counting rooms.
I am just curious what does just one of these type gold coins bring in the market? Average cost?
Quite true, but there are two problems. First, when the coin is dipped to get rid of the copper stain, you can end up with "white gold" which many collectors, including me, do not like. Second, they might come back in a few years or less. Copper stains often involve more than just the surface. They down in to the coin. There is sometimes a “vein” of copper in the piece that comes to the surface again.
I saw some of this problem with the 1857-S double eagles from the SS Central America that had been curated. I handled several of these coins of the coins in the early 2000s. I noted on some of them that the brown stains were beginning to return. A few years later after I moved to Florida, I saw some of these coins that had been sitting in collections for several years. Sure enough they had "grown" copper stains, and sometimes the results were not pretty.
Here is a 1907 High Relief $20 gold that I handled years ago. There are few very light copper marks on the reverse in the area of the sun. Believe or not, some potential customers found that objectionable. I thought that the coin was original and very attractive, but not everyone agreed with me.
These look way above the average condition.
I have it from pretty good sources that some folks who conserve coins professionally can remove a spot or stain w/o leaving a stripped coin. Would you agree that would be something special f they can actually do it?
If you can't spot the work, then it's not a problem, but having a "white spot" can be just as bad as having the whole coin turned into "white gold."
Copper stains on gold can easily be removed WITHOUT using a dip and the coin will not change ia appearance other than the stains are gone.
what a great find! thanks for sharing
Some people (like me!) would pay a premium for the toning. Why try to please those that don't like it if some people would pay a premium as is?
Thanks for sharing. One of the first coins I began collecting were High Relief 20s. At one point I had a PCGS MS-65, a MS-64, and a PCGS MS-62. (Sold the 65 in a major auction, traded the 64 toward a Pan-Pac $50 Octagonal, and still have the 62 which IMHO is under graded as it actually looked better than the 64.)
I always wanted a collection of HR die and edge combos. Anyone wish to tackle that in MS-63 or 64 so the diagnostics show well?
Scans? What is this, 1996?
Nice coins!
Collector, occasional seller
Absolutely amazing. I hope to own one!
How is the luster / frost? Hard to tell from the scans.
He who knows he has enough is rich.
To answer questions folks have asked:
Great find!!! My favorite of all coins for sure.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
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Nice!
K
@DaveWcoins said: "Good question re stackability. So -- I (carefully) stacked them & photo'd them before sending them off for grading. I'll post those photos in a separate thread."
Please see this thread:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1003028/do-the-1907-high-relief-20s-really-not-stack-well-lets-find-out#latest
Great find!
Wow - I like the look of the toned one.
I'll bet @jwitten does as well.
Those are really nice.
Will you post the grades here? Any word yet?
He who knows he has enough is rich.
I'd be surprised if those coins don't grade MS64 or better.
pcgscoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/9136
@DaveWcoins any updates?