1991 ASE cleaned?
Jcld
Posts: 449 ✭✭✭
Hi I would love to hear all of your learned opinions on if you think this coin has been cleaned or not. I was told it was and it was sold to me cheap. It looks to me like it lived life in a bag of a whole bunch of other coins and was jangled about for the past 27 years. I see some original surface so I am not sure. What say you?
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Coin was circulated. Probably carried as a pocket piece for years.
It's got cleaning hairlines all over it. The luster is gone, and it's just a pice of bullion now.
I agree, just looks really beat up and circulated. Really hard to tell if it may have been cleaned in the condition it's in now and the pic provided.
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I disagree. Let me try to clarify the meaning of luster (a reflection of light from a surface) so as not to confuse new collectors. This is one of my biggest complaints with knowledgeable numismatists! THAT COIN IS LOADED WITH LUSTER and at least 50% of it is original mint luster in the areas around the relief.
I have lots of SEs but have never really handled one. You have a coin that can be handled, flipped, dropped, and carried around. Excellent!
These were never stored in bags to be banged around.
I agree that it does look like a circulated coin but we all know they don't circulate. Therefore, a pocket piece is as good an explanation as any. There is no numismatic value to this piece. It's worth the silver content.
bob
Say what? Where? I see shiny, but almost any thing metal will reflect light.
Where is that minty fresh " cartwheel" and flow lines that most of us like to call luster. But this has been discussed before. So let me have it.
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Looks like it was carried as a pocket piece for a time. Not 27 years, but part of it's life.
DOH!!! Pocket piece. Ya that makes the most sense. I can see luster on the coin with my loupe. I also see tons of scratches and stuff but it doesn't look like cleaning to me. I bought the piece as bullion so I had no expectation of any value beyond that. I am still fairly new to identifying cleaning in coins so I appreciate all of your opinions.
cleaned and circ'd
Here is a funny tid bit, these come in from time to time. we buy them just like silver rounds when they are not fresh, but
Customers will not buy circulated eagles period around here. they buy the fresh ones for a premium, or generic rounds at spot, but will not buy junk eagles no matter how low I price them. Its a weird phenomenon . I usually have to scrap them to the refinery. They hate them worse than the painted eagles, and they don't sell either.
I would buy them all day long as bullion fresh or not.
Looks like an experiment to me.
You might change your tune, if you ever tried to sell one.
The refinery would take them all day long I would think.
cleaned - in the right field are parallel lines between the T and Y - the lines are running at 8 o'clock - 2 o'clock direction - this relates to harsh cleaning
around the letters and devices (raised portions) the surface is different color/texture to rest of flat sections - this could be because a circulated AU/XF or cleaned
I would be leary of buying a bunch like that and would want to weigh and compare with an uncirculated - there is a chance it is plated and FAKE
Bruce, I like your question and the challenge. I hope this helps:
It does not matter what "most of you" like to call luster. Sometimes It seems to me that many folks have not thought deeply on the subject. This is EXACTLY what I wrote about: "I see shiny, but almost anything metal will reflect light." Yes, that's luster. In fact, so does wood, plastic, and my greasy hand reflect light. We call it luster also.
The glowing rear end of a freshly oiled baby's butt can be described as lustrous.
Mint luster is special. A GSA dollar in a government cast has fresh, minty, luster. Take it out of the case and completely buff off its design leaves a flat shiny LUSTROUS metal disc. It has luster but there is no trace of Mint luster anymore, The difference should be obvious.
I'll guarantee that SE will show a BROKEN UP cartwheel luster if you had it in a dark room under a lightbulb. I think most of you will agree it is AU right? Do you see any change of color and surface texture on the protected areas next to the relief? Those are areas of remaining original luster.
The reason I get so frustrated with knowledgeable numismatists about this is when teaching students to grade, they need to learn the different appearance of original mint luster on an original surface and the appearance of any other type of luster on a coin. Very many longtime numismatists NEVER learned this fine point and that's the reason over 80% of the folks I deal with on a daily basis have no earthly idea if a coin is original or not or if the luster is original or not! It makes me very sad.
So many folks, so little time.
@Jcld said: "I can see luster on the coin with my loupe. I also see tons of scratches and stuff but it doesn't look like cleaning to me."
Excellent! You may be able to teach us old dogs a thing or two! I can see the mint luster with the image you provided.
Sure, but not at spot.
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@insisder
we have discussed this same exact subject before, but its good to show new members. Thanks.
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The question is, is the buy discount the same as the sell discount on dirty silver. I don't know the answer, but I am sure that clean SEs are easier to sell.since the market is much bigger.
I agree with both of these statements, but to me any ASE is bullion and as such I don't have very many of them.
I doubt that very much. Thank you for the explanation of mint luster.
Thank you that is very useful info. The weight is correct and I believe that it is not a fake, just a beat up ASE
I would definitely buy ASE's such as this for melt price... they stack really well...In my past experience (when I lived in an area with coin shops and shows)... they were always priced with a significant premium... Sell at melt and avoid the shipping etc. charges of the refiner. Plus, if I buy three or more, I would expect a discount.
The antique shops around here sell coins such as the OP at twice melt +..... Ridiculous. Cheers, RickO
@ricko I think that most antique shops are very proud of all old coins and the like, at least they seem to be priced that way.
@Jcld ....Yes indeed...VERY proud....and when you try to talk to them, it becomes obvious they have no idea about coins...at least the people in the shops here...Cheers, RickO
What was it before?
You might not believe this, but there are collectors who avidly collect this series. I used to watch them next door to my table at the Nashua, New Hampshire monthly coin show. They were carefully go through rolls of these coins one by one to find the highest grade examples. That’s why the 1995-W Proof, with mintage of over 30,000, sells for such high prices. These coins are a bit more than bullion for a fair number of collectors.
As for the OP coin, I said “cleaned” because it has the dull muted luster of a coin that looks like it been worked over with a mild abrasive, like baking soda. Perhaps you could say the luster is “impaired.”
Not sure what it was before, probably a pocket piece. My wife works at a shop and she flags all of the coins as they come in so I can buy them. It came in with a few silver coins from Australia.
I don't understand the appeal of collecting ASE as part of a numismatic collection, but there is a lot of things I don't understand. That is actually one of the things I love about the hobby is seeing all of the varied interest in all things coins.
Being that I'm new to the numi side of things. I would say this coin has lost 90% of its luster. But, to be fair, this is my opinion. An opinion shouldn't suffice bc it either has luster or it doesn't.
Look at it this way. The ASE is a big, impressive piece of silver that is consistently issued annually. All of the coins have a bullion value, but in most cases they are not excessively expensive. The exceptions are the 1995-W and some of the other Proofs. There were a number of collectors who were upset about the way the 1995-W coins were issued. They could only be obtained from mint as part of the 1995 gold eagle set that cost over$1,000. That kept a number of small collectors from keeping their sets intact.
I was being " tongue in cheek" with one of our members. And throwing a buzz word at him. "Shiny" .
He explained the difference between luster and mint luster very well. Don't read too much into my post. The posted ASE was really not the main subject, it is a beat up pos. Imo.
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Very well then.
I'm new to this forum and new to numismatics altogether. I'd rather have you as a friend than foe. This is just my perspective.
Just hang around..... ask questions, and read, read read.
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The posted ASE was really not the main subject, it is a beat up pos. Imo.
Careful you are going to hurt her feelings. She can't help what she has been put through. To me it is still a nice piece of silver to tuck away for a while.
You want to send her to me? Ill put it down quietly and painlessly, I promise. And I'll send you a brand new MS example. Lol.
And I'm not kidding.
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Why would you do that?
Why not? Hang around long enough and you will find out. Pm from now on.
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@shinywhite said: "Being that I'm new to the numi side of things. I would say this coin has lost 90% of its luster. But, to be fair, this is my opinion. An opinion shouldn't suffice bc it either has luster or it doesn't."
Let's examine your opinion. Class is in and there is no wrong answer so take a shot: Where is the 10% of the luster remaining on the coin. Please be specific and describe where I should look.