In my experience most cc's that I have had in the past have a cash advance limit that is smaller than the total limit. Like a cc with a total limit of $5000 might have a $1500 cash advance limit.
I remember a time when pcgs was considering shutting down the message boards to save some expenses. Glad thay decided not to.
If I was selling my collection today I would probably consider using another venue. In my opinion it just dosent affect the sale of coins under $2500 but it also effects the total amount a cc buyer can spend ( Like someone who would buy 6 $500 coins).
While I think the move will help Heritage I also think it will hurt the amount sellers get.
For me most of my purchases will be below the $2,500 so it shouldn't make much difference. I was unaware of the policy change and would have been totally caught off guard had I won the coin I wanted. I ended up the underbidder instead of the winner and this was after bidding up another $500 over what my first "max bid" was. Yes, I was willing to bury myself in this coin (PCGS guide value is $2,500). Final winning bid ended up at $4,600. This would have been my most expensive/costly coin had I won it.
That said, I did not have the $4,600 readily available but holding it on my CC until I rounded up the funds was the plan. While not wise, it was something I could swing just fine. If I had realized that I did not have the option of paying with the CC then I would not have made the last couple of bids which likely gave Heritage/seller several hundred dollars more than if I had not bid. As the underbidder on "Live" I know I had a personal hand in the final price.
If Heritage/Seller looses a couple hundred on several coins because of less bidding, are they actually saving money? Is the seller realizing his full potential? Because of the lack of advertisement on the change of CC amount I do not think that Heritage can use the last auction data or even the next auction data as a valid reference point to see. It will take time to tell if they made the correct choice...
<< <i>If Heritage/Seller looses a couple hundred on several coins because of less bidding... >>
I would imagine anybody with two brain cells to rub together would agree that when you get fewer bids, you have a very good chance of ending up with lower final bid totals. So- either...
A) the people running Heritage are totally clueless for overlooking this fact.
or
the people at Heritage realize this but have access to data that would lead them to believe the change would be beneficial to their business nonetheless.
Personally, I would choose B. Of course, as always, YMMV.
I wonder how many non-paying bidders will come of the FUN auction because they failed to notify people properly? Bet it's the most they've seen in many moons.
<< <i>In my experience most cc's that I have had in the past have a cash advance limit that is smaller than the total limit. >>
That very well may be. Either way, I expect Heritage has put more thought into this than they are being given credit for by some people. >>
If they really put thought into it they would have sent out a better notice. This is not a small change by any means. I could care less btw as I pay cash for my purchases but it is making me think twice about consignment to them in the future on mid-level priced coins (small taters for many around here).
<< <i>I found that out when I went to pay for the FUN auction; it does suck. I wonder what their reason was for the change? >>
Credit cards cost the seller money. Those of us who pay by check in some ways subsidize those who pay by credit card.
I buy political items from an auctioneer who has the following policy. Those who pay by check pay a 12% buyers’ fee. Those who pay using Pay Pal or credit cards pay a 15% buyers’ fee. That is a fair way to handle it.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
If they really put thought into it they would have sent out a better notice.
I completely agree with that they should have sent out better notice about the change in policy. I would guess that, if pressed, on a one-on-one bases, they would take credit cards for the FUN purchases up to $10k.
<< <i>Heritage's lack of thinking about the consequences of this action is mind-blowing.
How do you know how much time, effort, and research went into this policy change?
I always enjoy it when the folks impose their beliefs about how someone else's business should be run. That's the only thing that is "mind-blowing". >>
This new Heritage policy doesn't affect wealthy collectors like you, RYK. This new policy affects average collectors like me and most of the members of this forum. But you're right, RYK. Instead of questioning Heritage and their policy that directly affects average collectors, I should just sit back, smile, and support Heritage uncriticially. I mean, how dare I actually question the way a business chooses to operate, especially when the consequences are so blatantly negative toward average collectors. How dare I voice my opinions about a policy that greatly alters the way that some of us participate in this hobby. But you are correct - I don't know how much QUANTITY of thought went into the decision. But based on the obvious consequences that will most assuredly ensue, I can fairly accurately assume that not much QUALITY of thought went into it. Oh sure, they may be trying to prevent fraudulent CC charges from eating into their profit margin. And as a financial analyst I applaud them for trying to combat this problem. But their "solution" negatively impacts real, honest collectors who simply want to be able to buy coins with as much ease, convenience, flexibility, and choice of payment options as possible.
The fact is, not all of us have your kind of money, RYK where a $10,000 coin is not a big deal. Some of us, in order to buy that special coin, have to finance the purchase. And we don't mind doing that because to us, that $10,000 coin is special. What Heritage's policy has done is to prevent those of us who can't immediately afford those kinds of coins from bidding on them and winning them. Why? Simply because we don't have the trough of cash on hand to pay for it. Well, my credit is beyond solid; in fact, it's impeccable. I ALWAYS pay my debts. And I consider it a slap in the face by Heritage that is ultimately making a value judgment about me and other collectors of average means. They're ultimately saying, "BarberFanatic, you and those who have a similar financial standing aren't wealthy enough, and therefore, aren't worthy enough to own this coin because we can't/won't exercise better control over our own financial operations. Instead of doing more on our end of things to prevent fraud, and instead of working more closely with VISA/MC and the like, we're simply going to limit EVERYONE'S ability to buy from us, regardless of how honest they have been/are in their financial dealings with us and how long they've had stellar payment history with us."
Financial interest or not, Heritage is making it more difficult for many of its customers to do business with them. I absolutely will have to scale my purchases from them WAY back. And I'm certain there are a lot more collectors who will have to do the same. And that's just fine for the wealthy collectors and dealers who will have fewer bidders to compete against. But it upsets me and other collectors of modest means because we love this hobby and we love being able to own coins from time to time that we couldn't otherwise afford unless we finance them with a CC.
That is why I'm angry. And that is why I say their decision was made with utter lack of quality of thought behind it. Contrary to your claims, they did NOT consider all of the implications of their action. And if they did, then ultimately we are left to conclude that they care more about their convenience than that of their customers. >>
Then don't do business with Heritage ... geez ... this is not rocket science. Doing business with Heritage is not the only way to collect coins. I hear rumor that some nice coins even get sold outside of a Heritage auction! If enough angry customers avoid Heritage it may affect their bottom line and then a policy revision may occur.
Do you really think that the most successful auction house in the country would not consider all of the relevant implications? It's a business. Halperin and Ivy know how to run a startlingly successful business.
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
I'm surprised by the level of anger in some of these responses and would guess that at least some of this anger has been generated from the apparent lack of efficient transmission of the decision rather than the decision itself. My opinion is that this decision should not box out those who view themselves as "average" collectors since I truly do not believe "average" collectors spend several thousand dollars at Heritage auctions. Those who spend at that level are likely in the top few percent of collectors in terms of knowledge, investment and commitment. It is easy for me to write this since I do not pay for Heritage winnings with a credit card, but after the initial shock and disappointment regarding the decision, I would expect that nearly everyone affected by it would have the resources, drive and ingenuity to arrange other forms of payment satisfactory to all involved.
Alternatively, it is possible that Heritage made a mistake and that they may reverse course. Something like this happened about ten years ago when Heritage decided in a similar manner to go to auctions where the lot did not end upon initial hammer, but rather went to a shootout-type of auction where only those who had previously bid upon the lot were allowed to continue bidding for an additional hour after the lot closed and where if there were no bids received within a ten minute window that the lot would close. I read the new terms carefully, planned my night and initial bids accordingly and then went about winning lots that I had not been high bidder on during the initial hammer. It involved significantly more strategy and time. It also angered many folks who were caught unaware and thought that they had won the lots only to find out that bidding continued well after the lot hammered. This lasted only one auction due to the high level of complaints.
I wonder how many non-paying bidders will come of the FUN auction because they failed to notify people properly?
I wonder how many non-paying bidders will be banned from future Heritage auctions for not following through on their personal commitments? You agree to those T&Cs when you log into Heritage's website.
While I agree that the lack of prior notification was not the best way to handle it, that does not absolve a buyer from their obligations.
" Heh I went to Florida last month and was introduced to gas stations that charge more per gallon if you are using a credit card. I hope that doesn't catch on elsewhere."
Its been like that is some areas of southcentral pa for years now... credit is 3% more but they do debt same price as cash. How nice, they screw us with high prices already then screw us for useing a CC. Whats funney is sunoco does it the most around here but then they offer you with a CC with a 5% bonus in rewards when you use there credit card at there pumps..
Paying by credit card has three advantages: 1. An extra 20-30 days to pay for the items at no cost 2. Rebate from the CC company of 1-3% depending upon the card 3. Instant settlement of the auction invoice such that the items can then be shipped or picked up in person faster.
These have nothing to do with long-term financing of coin purchases on a credit card. I would not recommend such a practice for collectors.
<< <i>Actually, BF, your vitriol aside, your financial analysis has failed you. You still have numerous options to finance coin purchases:
1. Heritage offers credit. 2. You can write a check from your credit card account. 3. You can write a HELOC check. >>
4. Save up the money before the auction. 5. Make more.
This is the real world, where the amount of wealth you create for yourself increases your buying power. Honestly, as someone who has always paid by check, I"m thrilled to now be on a more equal playing field with those who were able to bid more because of the 1% cash back perk offered by many CC companies.
<< <i>own coins from time to time that we couldn't otherwise afford unless we finance them with a CC
I'm with RYK on this one - in addition, if you need to finance at CC rates, you probably shouldn't be buying coins. There are far cheaper options.............trust me. I know, having financed coins via virtually every means possible. >>
If you are spending 10,000 on Heritage auctions, you are not carrying the balance to pay finance charges ,,,, like another poster stated I bid more aggressively knowing there is a 10,000 cc backstop
<< <i>Paying by credit card has three advantages: 1. An extra 20-30 days to pay for the items at no cost 2. Rebate from the CC company of 1-3% depending upon the card 3. Instant settlement of the auction invoice such that the items can then be shipped or picked up in person faster.
These have nothing to do with long-term financing of coin purchases on a credit card. I would not recommend such a practice for collectors. >>
In addition to the above, you get points toward airline miles, cash refunds, etc.
I've never understood why whenever I've asked the seller about whether there was a price difference on say, a $5,000 coin re payment by check or credit card, the answer was always 'no.' Putting that purchase on a card cost the seller anywhere from $100 to $150, and I was happy to pay by check if he / she would have split the difference with me.
I decided not to accept credit cards in my accounting practice, because I'd have to add the 3% processing fee to my charges in order to maintain my profit margin.
Oh, when it comes to ALL discretionary purchases, if I can't write a check for them, I can't afford them, so I pass. The only time I use a credit card for ANY purchase is when I intend to full pay the card when it is due.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>How nice, they screw us with high prices already then screw us for useing a CC. >>
There is a cost to using a credit card, regardless of where you use it. If you think you are being screwed by having the cost itemized for you, you are certainly free to pay using a method that leaves you feeling less screwed.
As some of you have come to understand, Heritage has changed its credit card policies due to the high fees (roughly 2-3%) charged by the credit card companies and PayPal.
This was not a snap decision nor one that we took lightly; we’ve been discussing our options in this regard literally for several years, and we’ve long been aware of virtually all of the considerations mentioned previously in this thread. During the first few months we have been allowing past clients’ charges up to $10,000 on a one-time basis as a transition if they were unaware of the change.
We understand quite well that this change could be an inconvenience for those of you with invoices in the $2,500-$10,000 range. However, if you’re not aware, we do offer an Extended Payment Plan (EPP) on invoices above $2,500 that allows you to take up to four months to pay (you can pay sooner if you want) – we usually don’t limit credit cards when you pay this way, and we never charge a prepayment penalty for early payments. There is, however, a 3% set up fee (entirely waived if all payments are timely made by check or wire), and a monthly 1% interest charge on any unpaid balance only. For more information, visit this link: Take 4 months to pay. You may also pay quickly and easily with eCheck.
(Please note that the 3% EPP set-up fee is *not* refundable if you choose to pay by credit card.)
If you have any questions, please contact me directly at stewarth@ha.com (214-409-1355) or reach out to your Heritage representative.
Sincerely,
Stewart Huckaby mailto:stewarth@HA.com ------------------------------------------ Heritage Auctions Heritage Auctions
As I was getting 3% back using Starwood Amex I built in the added amount into my bids, going forward I will adjust them downward.
This comes as more than a major concern to me as I have been playing phone tag on the consignment of all my duplicate Seated Dimes, coins I have upgraded with better example, like a PCGS 1860 O Dime, NGC MS67 1867, XF45 1843 O and many other coins in the $500-$10,000 range. That is a 65% complete dime set.
I now have a real concern that there could be a major backlash on this new policy as I currently have bids in on several $20 bullion coins I would have pulled knowing this policy was in place.
Just tried to pay my open bill and could not figure out why it kept rejecting my credit card. I guess I should visit these boards more often.
I do see a reduction in all the bullion type coins I bid on. I was buying them in part to get the miles.
I think this will hurt Heritage a great deal and wonder the impact it will have on some consignors thinking they will get lower bids from buyers who can no longer charge the purchases.
I would not put coins in a sale without a reserve now.
I seldom check PM's but do check emails often jason@seated.org
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
This will quite certainly hurt Heritage. The buyer's premium should offset the costs associated with auction. Why should credit card limits be reduced 75%? I speak from a personal level. There were lots from this past auction that I was very interested in, yet I didn't bid because their accepted forms of payment are no longer acceptable to me. And I have to believe I am not alone. Extended terms are nice, it after filling out the application no one there even bothered to send a response. Phone calls went to voicemail. And I shopped elsewhere.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
<< <i>This will quite certainly hurt Heritage. The buyer's premium should offset the costs associated with auction. Why should credit card limits be reduced 75%? I speak from a personal level. There were lots from this past auction that I was very interested in, yet I didn't bid because their accepted forms of payment are no longer acceptable to me. And I have to believe I am not alone. Extended terms are nice, it after filling out the application no one there even bothered to send a response. Phone calls went to voicemail. And I shopped elsewhere. >>
Here's kind of what I see.....everyone wants profit. Everyone wants a raise and to increase profits.
So, if Company "H" sells $1,000,000 and gets 15% BP and 10% SP (averaging down and only using as an example), then they are getting $250,000. Take out costs (CC charges, advertising, salary for that time, set costs, etc) and maybe they clear $50,000 (just an example again).
Now, if there is a consistency to that amount, the company needs to look at expenses and try to lower them. At a certain point, all "easy" costs are lowered. So, time to go after other things.....CC charges are popular. Now, maybe there is $20,000 benefit instead of $30,000, but that is better than nothing and, voila! Someone gets a raise for lowering costs and increasing profits (on paper at least).
The problem comes when people bid less because they want the CC "float"/security/miles/cashback/etc. Or just plain want a coin bad enough to pay the CC interest rates. If they can't do it at the higher levels, they may not bid, coins go for less, etc. Consignors are now getting less and looking at other venues. To lure them back, some rates are lowered, advertising costs increase, etc.
It seems to me that they are trying to run off the little guy (both as a buyer and a seller). It is just as much work to set up a coin that sells for $50 as one that sells for $50,000 or even $500,000. So, obviously expensive coins are more cost effective for them.
It was not long ago they raised the BP to $14 from $7 so basically anyone selling coins under $100 is really getting $7 less per coin.
This has opened the doors for others to fill those shoes.
Now at that price point the CC buyers will not have an issue.
I have in many cases intentionally kept my winnings below $10,000 so I could use my credit card. Not only did I get about 14 days of Heritage float but when you have several cards with different cut off dates you are looking at about 60 day of float plus for some buyers getting the coins.
Now, being unaware of this new rule I exceeded $2500 on an interent sale and a signiture sale both. While I can have money transfered from my stockbroker, that is not something I ever want to do. I use current income to make purchases. Now I am losing the 60 day float and the miles.
I am going to NYC on miles from recent purchases HA. I used 12,500 points per night for a Starwood 5 star room that costs $700 per night. Basically I have a 6% benifit for buying coins. Take that away from and only the sellers will suffer buy getting lower prices, in turn HA will get lower fees.
In the long run it will be bad business because even if I don't win, I may be running up the price. On a $5000 bid coin I bid $5250 and the next bid is $5500 then maybe I go $5750 and lose to the winner a $6000. The seller got more but Heritage also earned $150 more in buyers premium + seller fees too. Now I just don't bid , the buyers get less for the coin or even worse the coin does not meet the reserve and Heritage lost a $750 commission to save $125-$150, either way if I don't bid they lose more money than the credit card fees.
Sure there will be coins I still bid on, but sometimes you buy coins you never planned to bid on and when you add up losing bids in live sales just the run up in prices results in more commissions than the cost of their taking creditcards.
Worse of all If they lose a consignment to another auction house over fears of lower prices they 15-20% over 2.3-3%.
The is about as bad a pricing move as netflix made and if the stock was public I would be shorting it heavy. I suspect Bowers/Stack will be the big winner here.
I seldom check PM's but do check emails often jason@seated.org
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Seated Dime,That is a good point! I kept my winnings in the last heritage auction under $2500! Yeap...intentionally! I can just about gaurantee you I would have raised the bids on quite a few coins(probably into 5 figures) if I didn't want to keep my winnings under $2500. I am still kicking my self in the ass for the last Stack's auction. I had figured to a tee what I wanted to bid on etc. Well....I didn't realize they had live bidding as it was my 1st time with Stacks. Curious me won a coin he didn't want and pushed myself over the 5K limit....aaaarrrrrrgggggh!
Really? How do you know? Have you looked at the books?
All of the forum members would like to get 102% hammer when they sell coins and pay 112% of hammer when they buy them and expect Heritage to have a staff to schlep the coins all over the country, rent multiple rooms at each convention center, serve food during auctions, produce large paper catalogs, pay local people to staff lot viewing and for security, buy Armani suits for the execs , provide free archives to search as a resource, provide excellent photography service, ship coins within a week of the auction close, etc., etc., etc.
It's always greed when someone else is trying to make a buck.
Well, This has caused me to stop bidding on a coin I want. Just like the last one that I bid up to $4600 in Live with me being underbidder, I was top bid on this one when internet bidding closed. I got outbid by someone special in the closed part again and the bid now is above $3000 with Live bidding tonight. I will not participate in the Live bidding this time as I can't float the extra $1,000 on the credit card. Congrats to the high bidder who gets it for a grand cheaper than I would bid. Sorry for the seller who did not maximize their profit. Heritage still makes their 15% so it is all good...
<< <i>I got outbid by someone special in the closed part again and the bid now is above $3000 with Live bidding tonight. I will not participate in the Live bidding this time as I can't float the extra $1,000 on the credit card. Congrats to the high bidder who gets it for a grand cheaper than I would bid. >>
If live bidding has yet to happen, how do you know the eventual winning bidder will get the item $1000 cheaper than you would have bid?
<< <i>I got outbid by someone special in the closed part again and the bid now is above $3000 with Live bidding tonight. I will not participate in the Live bidding this time as I can't float the extra $1,000 on the credit card. Congrats to the high bidder who gets it for a grand cheaper than I would bid. >>
If live bidding has yet to happen, how do you know the eventual winning bidder will get the item $1000 cheaper than you would have bid? >>
there are some gold coins that I would bid on to win in the central states Heritage auction... but have taken a pass...
<< <i>Well, This has caused me to stop bidding on a coin I want. Just like the last one that I bid up to $4600 in Live with me being underbidder, I was top bid on this one when internet bidding closed. I got outbid by someone special in the closed part again and the bid now is above $3000 with Live bidding tonight. I will not participate in the Live bidding this time as I can't float the extra $1,000 on the credit card. Congrats to the high bidder who gets it for a grand cheaper than I would bid. Sorry for the seller who did not maximize their profit. Heritage still makes their 15% so it is all good... >>
Are you saying that coins are selling for less money because of the credit card limit change? Do you have any empirical evidence to this effect, or is this supposition? If it is the former I would like to include that evidence in my seminar, if it is the latter than is sounds like you are punishing yourself because Heritage no longer wants to subsidize your purchases. Either way I don't get it.
MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
<< <i>I found that out when I went to pay for the FUN auction; it does suck. I wonder what their reason was for the change? >>
Probably fees. Many a business are looking to reduce credit card fees in an effort to improve margins. Heh I went to Florida last month and was introduced to gas stations that charge more per gallon if you are using a credit card. I hope that doesn't catch on elsewhere.
Jacob >>
The can't legally or openly do that. It's ok to offer a discount for cash, but you can't tack on an extra fee if one uses a CC. It's all in the wording. >>
You beat me to the punch. I travel often from the Charlottesville to Richmond, Virginia areas and several gas stations offer cash discounts. In terms of pratical effect, it is the same, but he is right that it is all in the wording.
<< <i> The can't legally or openly do that. It's ok to offer a discount for cash, but you can't tack on an extra fee if one uses a CC. It's all in the wording. >>
It's not illegal in most states, but it is always against visa's merchant policy. >>
Is that actually a law or just a policy of the credit card companies? >>
It is in the terms of use/contract between the credit card companies and most merchants.
I thought PayPal was still allowed over the new $2500 limit, but Stuart seemed to say no on PayPal. Anyone know for sure if PayPal over $2500 is still allowed?
I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
<< <i>Well, This has caused me to stop bidding on a coin I want. Just like the last one that I bid up to $4600 in Live with me being underbidder, I was top bid on this one when internet bidding closed. I got outbid by someone special in the closed part again and the bid now is above $3000 with Live bidding tonight. I will not participate in the Live bidding this time as I can't float the extra $1,000 on the credit card. Congrats to the high bidder who gets it for a grand cheaper than I would bid. Sorry for the seller who did not maximize their profit. Heritage still makes their 15% so it is all good... >>
Are you saying that coins are selling for less money because of the credit card limit change? Do you have any empirical evidence to this effect, or is this supposition? If it is the former I would like to include that evidence in my seminar, if it is the latter than is sounds like you are punishing yourself because Heritage no longer wants to subsidize your purchases. Either way I don't get it. >>
Every person in this thread who said they held off bidding because of this change is your evidence. The final bids would have been higher but for this change (assuming the posters here are all honest).
I have a card that gives me cash back on purchases so in making my bids I factor that amount into what I'm willing to put in for my max bid. It hasn't happened yet, but if I know my invoice will be over $2500, I will definitely be placing lower max bids on the coins knowing that I won't be getting the credit card rewards.
It's also not just about the credit card rewards. When buying from Heritage in the past, orders are shipped much quicker when I paid via credit card vs. any time I paid via check or bank transfer. So getting my coins much faster was another reason I preferred to pay by card.
<< <i>Every person in this thread who said they held off bidding because of this change is your evidence. The final bids would have been higher but for this change (assuming the posters here are all honest). >>
That evidence is not sufficient to prove the point. One would also need to prove that the posters here would have been one of the top two bidders in the auctions in which they participated.
<< <i>Every person in this thread who said they held off bidding because of this change is your evidence. The final bids would have been higher but for this change (assuming the posters here are all honest). >>
That evidence is not sufficient to prove the point. One would also need to prove that the posters here would have been one of the top two bidders in the auctions in which they participated. >>
Heritage mails me stuff all the time wanting me to sell them coins or make consignments. I have only bought coins from Heritage. So I decide to get them a shot at auctioning a couple of coins to test the waters. Send them an e-mail wanting to consign two gold coins. Heritage replied that the coins are worth under $5000 and I should sell them on e-bay! Wow!
Si vis pacem, para bellum
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
<< <i>Heritage mails me stuff all the time wanting me to sell them coins or make consignments. I have only bought coins from Heritage. So I decide to get them a shot at auctioning a couple of coins to test the waters. Send them an e-mail wanting to consign two gold coins. Heritage replied that the coins are worth under $5000 and I should sell them on e-bay! Wow! >>
<< <i>Heritage mails me stuff all the time wanting me to sell them coins or make consignments. I have only bought coins from Heritage. So I decide to get them a shot at auctioning a couple of coins to test the waters. Send them an e-mail wanting to consign two gold coins. Heritage replied that the coins are worth under $5000 and I should sell them on e-bay! Wow! >>
I said it before: It seems to me that they are trying to run off the little guy (both as a buyer and a seller). It is just as much work to set up a coin that sells for $50 as one that sells for $50,000 or even $500,000. So, obviously expensive coins are more cost effective for them.
<< <i>Every person in this thread who said they held off bidding because of this change is your evidence. The final bids would have been higher but for this change (assuming the posters here are all honest). >>
That evidence is not sufficient to prove the point. One would also need to prove that the posters here would have been one of the top two bidders in the auctions in which they participated. >>
<< <i>Well, This has caused me to stop bidding on a coin I want. Just like the last one that I bid up to $4600 in Live with me being underbidder, I was top bid on this one when internet bidding closed. I got outbid by someone special in the closed part again and the bid now is above $3000 with Live bidding tonight. I will not participate in the Live bidding this time as I can't float the extra $1,000 on the credit card. Congrats to the high bidder who gets it for a grand cheaper than I would bid. Sorry for the seller who did not maximize their profit. Heritage still makes their 15% so it is all good... >>
Are you saying that coins are selling for less money because of the credit card limit change? Do you have any empirical evidence to this effect, or is this supposition? If it is the former I would like to include that evidence in my seminar, if it is the latter than is sounds like you are punishing yourself because Heritage no longer wants to subsidize your purchases. Either way I don't get it. >>
I can say as a fact.. there are 2 double eagle gold coins in Friday's auction that I like and would have won .
<< <i>If I see something I really want/ need in an auction .. it is mine at what ever price >>
Okay. So- what were you going to bid on and what would the hammer price have been if you were bidding? >>
either the 2 coins would have totaled $ 10,000.... or if the price was very strong. 1 coin . only bidding if Heritage accepted $ 10,000 for cc purchase,, so sellers may take in less
Any of the folks that are staying away now, and that may have bid on early copper....thank you I won a coin yesterday for my max, that I thought wouldn't win....maybe I got lucky and maybe folks are staying away due to the changes....'preciate it
Comments
Like a cc with a total limit of $5000 might have a $1500 cash advance limit.
I remember a time when pcgs was considering shutting down the message boards to save some expenses. Glad thay decided not to.
If I was selling my collection today I would probably consider using another venue.
In my opinion it just dosent affect the sale of coins under $2500 but it also effects the total amount a cc buyer can spend ( Like someone who would buy 6 $500 coins).
While I think the move will help Heritage I also think it will hurt the amount sellers get.
<< <i>In my experience most cc's that I have had in the past have a cash advance limit that is smaller than the total limit. >>
That very well may be. Either way, I expect Heritage has put more thought into this than they are being given credit for by some people.
That said, I did not have the $4,600 readily available but holding it on my CC until I rounded up the funds was the plan. While not wise, it was something I could swing just fine. If I had realized that I did not have the option of paying with the CC then I would not have made the last couple of bids which likely gave Heritage/seller several hundred dollars more than if I had not bid. As the underbidder on "Live" I know I had a personal hand in the final price.
If Heritage/Seller looses a couple hundred on several coins because of less bidding, are they actually saving money? Is the seller realizing his full potential? Because of the lack of advertisement on the change of CC amount I do not think that Heritage can use the last auction data or even the next auction data as a valid reference point to see. It will take time to tell if they made the correct choice...
My two cents worth
<< <i>If Heritage/Seller looses a couple hundred on several coins because of less bidding... >>
I would imagine anybody with two brain cells to rub together would agree that when you get fewer bids, you have a very good chance of ending up with lower final bid totals. So- either...
A) the people running Heritage are totally clueless for overlooking this fact.
or
Personally, I would choose B. Of course, as always, YMMV.
<< <i>
<< <i>In my experience most cc's that I have had in the past have a cash advance limit that is smaller than the total limit. >>
That very well may be. Either way, I expect Heritage has put more thought into this than they are being given credit for by some people. >>
If they really put thought into it they would have sent out a better notice. This is not a small change by any means. I could care less btw as I pay cash for my purchases but it is making me think twice about consignment to them in the future on mid-level priced coins (small taters for many around here).
<< <i>I found that out when I went to pay for the FUN auction; it does suck. I wonder what their reason was for the change? >>
Credit cards cost the seller money. Those of us who pay by check in some ways subsidize those who pay by credit card.
I buy political items from an auctioneer who has the following policy. Those who pay by check pay a 12% buyers’ fee. Those who pay using Pay Pal or credit cards pay a 15% buyers’ fee. That is a fair way to handle it.
I completely agree with that they should have sent out better notice about the change in policy. I would guess that, if pressed, on a one-on-one bases, they would take credit cards for the FUN purchases up to $10k.
<< <i>
<< <i>Heritage's lack of thinking about the consequences of this action is mind-blowing.
How do you know how much time, effort, and research went into this policy change?
I always enjoy it when the folks impose their beliefs about how someone else's business should be run. That's the only thing that is "mind-blowing". >>
This new Heritage policy doesn't affect wealthy collectors like you, RYK. This new policy affects average collectors like me and most of the members of this forum. But you're right, RYK.
Instead of questioning Heritage and their policy that directly affects average collectors, I should just sit back, smile, and support Heritage uncriticially. I mean, how dare I actually
question the way a business chooses to operate, especially when the consequences are so blatantly negative toward average collectors. How dare I voice my opinions about a policy
that greatly alters the way that some of us participate in this hobby. But you are correct - I don't know how much QUANTITY of thought went into the decision. But based on the
obvious consequences that will most assuredly ensue, I can fairly accurately assume that not much QUALITY of thought went into it. Oh sure, they may be trying to prevent fraudulent
CC charges from eating into their profit margin. And as a financial analyst I applaud them for trying to combat this problem. But their "solution" negatively impacts real, honest collectors
who simply want to be able to buy coins with as much ease, convenience, flexibility, and choice of payment options as possible.
The fact is, not all of us have your kind of money, RYK where a $10,000 coin is not a big deal. Some of us, in order to buy that special coin, have to finance the purchase. And we don't mind
doing that because to us, that $10,000 coin is special. What Heritage's policy has done is to prevent those of us who can't immediately afford those kinds of coins from bidding on them
and winning them. Why? Simply because we don't have the trough of cash on hand to pay for it. Well, my credit is beyond solid; in fact, it's impeccable. I ALWAYS pay my debts. And I
consider it a slap in the face by Heritage that is ultimately making a value judgment about me and other collectors of average means. They're ultimately saying, "BarberFanatic, you and
those who have a similar financial standing aren't wealthy enough, and therefore, aren't worthy enough to own this coin because we can't/won't exercise better control over
our own financial operations. Instead of doing more on our end of things to prevent fraud, and instead of working more closely with VISA/MC and the like, we're simply going to limit
EVERYONE'S ability to buy from us, regardless of how honest they have been/are in their financial dealings with us and how long they've had stellar payment history with us."
Financial interest or not, Heritage is making it more difficult for many of its customers to do business with them. I absolutely will have to scale my purchases from them WAY back. And I'm
certain there are a lot more collectors who will have to do the same. And that's just fine for the wealthy collectors and dealers who will have fewer bidders to compete against. But it upsets
me and other collectors of modest means because we love this hobby and we love being able to own coins from time to time that we couldn't otherwise afford unless we finance them with a CC.
That is why I'm angry. And that is why I say their decision was made with utter lack of quality of thought behind it. Contrary to your claims, they did NOT consider all of the implications of their
action. And if they did, then ultimately we are left to conclude that they care more about their convenience than that of their customers. >>
Then don't do business with Heritage ... geez ... this is not rocket science. Doing business with Heritage is not the only way to collect coins. I hear rumor that some nice coins even get sold outside of a Heritage auction! If enough angry customers avoid Heritage it may affect their bottom line and then a policy revision may occur.
Do you really think that the most successful auction house in the country would not consider all of the relevant implications? It's a business. Halperin and Ivy know how to run a startlingly successful business.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Alternatively, it is possible that Heritage made a mistake and that they may reverse course. Something like this happened about ten years ago when Heritage decided in a similar manner to go to auctions where the lot did not end upon initial hammer, but rather went to a shootout-type of auction where only those who had previously bid upon the lot were allowed to continue bidding for an additional hour after the lot closed and where if there were no bids received within a ten minute window that the lot would close. I read the new terms carefully, planned my night and initial bids accordingly and then went about winning lots that I had not been high bidder on during the initial hammer. It involved significantly more strategy and time. It also angered many folks who were caught unaware and thought that they had won the lots only to find out that bidding continued well after the lot hammered. This lasted only one auction due to the high level of complaints.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I wonder how many non-paying bidders will be banned from future Heritage auctions for not following through on their personal commitments? You agree to those T&Cs when you log into Heritage's website.
While I agree that the lack of prior notification was not the best way to handle it, that does not absolve a buyer from their obligations.
Its been like that is some areas of southcentral pa for years now... credit is 3% more but they do debt same price as cash. How nice, they screw us with high prices already then screw us for useing a CC. Whats funney is sunoco does it the most around here but then they offer you with a CC with a 5% bonus in rewards when you use there credit card at there pumps..
1. An extra 20-30 days to pay for the items at no cost
2. Rebate from the CC company of 1-3% depending upon the card
3. Instant settlement of the auction invoice such that the items can then be shipped or picked up in person faster.
These have nothing to do with long-term financing of coin purchases on a credit card. I would not recommend such a practice for collectors.
<< <i>Actually, BF, your vitriol aside, your financial analysis has failed you. You still have numerous options to finance coin purchases:
1. Heritage offers credit.
2. You can write a check from your credit card account.
3. You can write a HELOC check.
>>
4. Save up the money before the auction.
5. Make more.
This is the real world, where the amount of wealth you create for yourself increases your buying power. Honestly, as someone who has always paid by check, I"m thrilled to now be on a more equal playing field with those who were able to bid more because of the 1% cash back perk offered by many CC companies.
<< <i>own coins from time to time that we couldn't otherwise afford unless we finance them with a CC
I'm with RYK on this one - in addition, if you need to finance at CC rates, you probably shouldn't be buying coins. There are far cheaper options.............trust me. I know, having financed coins via virtually every means possible.
If you are spending 10,000 on Heritage auctions, you are not carrying the balance to pay finance charges ,,,, like another poster stated I bid more aggressively knowing there is a 10,000 cc backstop
<< <i>Paying by credit card has three advantages:
1. An extra 20-30 days to pay for the items at no cost
2. Rebate from the CC company of 1-3% depending upon the card
3. Instant settlement of the auction invoice such that the items can then be shipped or picked up in person faster.
These have nothing to do with long-term financing of coin purchases on a credit card. I would not recommend such a practice for collectors. >>
In addition to the above, you get points toward airline miles, cash refunds, etc.
I've never understood why whenever I've asked the seller about whether there was a price difference on say, a $5,000 coin re payment by check or credit card, the answer was always 'no.' Putting that purchase on a card cost the seller anywhere from $100 to $150, and I was happy to pay by check if he / she would have split the difference with me.
I decided not to accept credit cards in my accounting practice, because I'd have to add the 3% processing fee to my charges in order to maintain my profit margin.
Oh, when it comes to ALL discretionary purchases, if I can't write a check for them, I can't afford them, so I pass. The only time I use a credit card for ANY purchase is when I intend to full pay the card when it is due.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>How nice, they screw us with high prices already then screw us for useing a CC. >>
There is a cost to using a credit card, regardless of where you use it. If you think you are being screwed by having the cost itemized for you, you are certainly free to pay using a method that leaves you feeling less screwed.
This was not a snap decision nor one that we took lightly; we’ve been discussing our options in this regard literally for several years, and we’ve long been aware of virtually all of the considerations mentioned previously in this thread. During the first few months we have been allowing past clients’ charges up to $10,000 on a one-time basis as a transition if they were unaware of the change.
We understand quite well that this change could be an inconvenience for those of you with invoices in the $2,500-$10,000 range. However, if you’re not aware, we do offer an Extended Payment Plan (EPP) on invoices above $2,500 that allows you to take up to four months to pay (you can pay sooner if you want) – we usually don’t limit credit cards when you pay this way, and we never charge a prepayment penalty for early payments. There is, however, a 3% set up fee (entirely waived if all payments are timely made by check or wire), and a monthly 1% interest charge on any unpaid balance only. For more information, visit this link: Take 4 months to pay. You may also pay quickly and easily with eCheck.
(Please note that the 3% EPP set-up fee is *not* refundable if you choose to pay by credit card.)
If you have any questions, please contact me directly at stewarth@ha.com (214-409-1355) or reach out to your Heritage representative.
Stewart Huckaby
mailto:stewarth@HA.com
------------------------------------------
Heritage Auctions
Heritage Auctions
2801 W. Airport Freeway
Dallas, Texas 75261
Phone: 1-800-US-COINS, x1355
Heritage Auctions
This comes as more than a major concern to me as I have been playing phone tag on the consignment of all my duplicate Seated Dimes, coins I have upgraded with better example, like a PCGS 1860 O Dime, NGC MS67 1867, XF45 1843 O and many other coins in the $500-$10,000 range. That is a 65% complete dime set.
I now have a real concern that there could be a major backlash on this new policy as I currently have bids in on several $20 bullion coins I would have pulled knowing this policy was in place.
Just tried to pay my open bill and could not figure out why it kept rejecting my credit card. I guess I should visit these boards more often.
I do see a reduction in all the bullion type coins I bid on. I was buying them in part to get the miles.
I think this will hurt Heritage a great deal and wonder the impact it will have on some consignors thinking they will get lower bids from buyers who can no longer charge the purchases.
I would not put coins in a sale without a reserve now.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
I speak from a personal level. There were lots from this past auction that I was very interested in, yet I didn't bid because their accepted forms of payment are no longer acceptable to me. And I have to believe I am not alone.
Extended terms are nice, it after filling out the application no one there even bothered to send a response. Phone calls went to voicemail. And I shopped elsewhere.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
<< <i>This will quite certainly hurt Heritage. The buyer's premium should offset the costs associated with auction. Why should credit card limits be reduced 75%?
I speak from a personal level. There were lots from this past auction that I was very interested in, yet I didn't bid because their accepted forms of payment are no longer acceptable to me. And I have to believe I am not alone.
Extended terms are nice, it after filling out the application no one there even bothered to send a response. Phone calls went to voicemail. And I shopped elsewhere. >>
amen
So, if Company "H" sells $1,000,000 and gets 15% BP and 10% SP (averaging down and only using as an example), then they are getting $250,000. Take out costs (CC charges, advertising, salary for that time, set costs, etc) and maybe they clear $50,000 (just an example again).
Now, if there is a consistency to that amount, the company needs to look at expenses and try to lower them. At a certain point, all "easy" costs are lowered. So, time to go after other things.....CC charges are popular. Now, maybe there is $20,000 benefit instead of $30,000, but that is better than nothing and, voila! Someone gets a raise for lowering costs and increasing profits
The problem comes when people bid less because they want the CC "float"/security/miles/cashback/etc. Or just plain want a coin bad enough to pay the CC interest rates.
If they can't do it at the higher levels, they may not bid, coins go for less, etc. Consignors are now getting less and looking at other venues. To lure them back, some rates are lowered, advertising costs increase, etc.
Time to look at cost cutting again
It's a nasty circle of life
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
as one that sells for $50,000 or even $500,000. So, obviously expensive coins are more cost effective for them.
This has opened the doors for others to fill those shoes.
Now at that price point the CC buyers will not have an issue.
I have in many cases intentionally kept my winnings below $10,000 so I could use my credit card. Not only did I get about 14 days of Heritage float but when you have several cards with different cut off dates you are looking at about 60 day of float plus for some buyers getting the coins.
Now, being unaware of this new rule I exceeded $2500 on an interent sale and a signiture sale both. While I can have money transfered from my stockbroker, that is not something I ever want to do. I use current income to make purchases. Now I am losing the 60 day float and the miles.
I am going to NYC on miles from recent purchases HA. I used 12,500 points per night for a Starwood 5 star room that costs $700 per night. Basically I have a 6% benifit for buying coins. Take that away from and only the sellers will suffer buy getting lower prices, in turn HA will get lower fees.
In the long run it will be bad business because even if I don't win, I may be running up the price. On a $5000 bid coin I bid $5250 and the next bid is $5500 then maybe I go $5750 and lose to the winner a $6000. The seller got more but Heritage also earned $150 more in buyers premium + seller fees too. Now I just don't bid , the buyers get less for the coin or even worse the coin does not meet the reserve and Heritage lost a $750 commission to save $125-$150, either way if I don't bid they lose more money than the credit card fees.
Sure there will be coins I still bid on, but sometimes you buy coins you never planned to bid on and when you add up losing bids in live sales just the run up in prices results in more commissions than the cost of their taking creditcards.
Worse of all If they lose a consignment to another auction house over fears of lower prices they 15-20% over 2.3-3%.
The is about as bad a pricing move as netflix made and if the stock was public I would be shorting it heavy. I suspect Bowers/Stack will be the big winner here.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
Then Heritage would have a much easier time phasing in the $2500 within two years.
<< <i>terrible business plan. Greed. >>
Really? How do you know? Have you looked at the books?
All of the forum members would like to get 102% hammer when they sell coins and pay 112% of hammer when they buy them and expect Heritage to have a staff to schlep the coins all over the country, rent multiple rooms at each convention center, serve food during auctions, produce large paper catalogs, pay local people to staff lot viewing and for security, buy Armani suits for the execs
It's always greed when someone else is trying to make a buck.
<< <i>I got outbid by someone special in the closed part again and the bid now is above $3000 with Live bidding tonight. I will not participate in the Live bidding this time as I can't float the extra $1,000 on the credit card. Congrats to the high bidder who gets it for a grand cheaper than I would bid. >>
If live bidding has yet to happen, how do you know the eventual winning bidder will get the item $1000 cheaper than you would have bid?
<< <i>
<< <i>I got outbid by someone special in the closed part again and the bid now is above $3000 with Live bidding tonight. I will not participate in the Live bidding this time as I can't float the extra $1,000 on the credit card. Congrats to the high bidder who gets it for a grand cheaper than I would bid. >>
If live bidding has yet to happen, how do you know the eventual winning bidder will get the item $1000 cheaper than you would have bid?
there are some gold coins that I would bid on to win in the central states Heritage auction... but have taken a pass...
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>Well, This has caused me to stop bidding on a coin I want. Just like the last one that I bid up to $4600 in Live with me being underbidder, I was top bid on this one when internet bidding closed. I got outbid by someone special in the closed part again and the bid now is above $3000 with Live bidding tonight. I will not participate in the Live bidding this time as I can't float the extra $1,000 on the credit card. Congrats to the high bidder who gets it for a grand cheaper than I would bid. Sorry for the seller who did not maximize their profit. Heritage still makes their 15% so it is all good... >>
Are you saying that coins are selling for less money because of the credit card limit change? Do you have any empirical evidence to this effect, or is this supposition? If it is the former I would like to include that evidence in my seminar, if it is the latter than is sounds like you are punishing yourself because Heritage no longer wants to subsidize your purchases. Either way I don't get it.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I found that out when I went to pay for the FUN auction; it does suck. I wonder what their reason was for the change? >>
Probably fees. Many a business are looking to reduce credit card fees in an effort to improve margins. Heh I went to Florida last month and was introduced to gas stations that charge more per gallon if you are using a credit card. I hope that doesn't catch on elsewhere.
Jacob >>
The can't legally or openly do that. It's ok to offer a discount for cash, but you can't tack on an extra fee if one uses a CC. It's all in the wording. >>
You beat me to the punch. I travel often from the Charlottesville to Richmond, Virginia areas and several gas stations offer cash discounts. In terms of pratical effect, it is the same, but he is right that it is all in the wording.
<< <i>
<< <i>
The can't legally or openly do that. It's ok to offer a discount for cash, but you can't tack on an extra fee if one uses a CC. It's all in the wording. >>
It's not illegal in most states, but it is always against visa's merchant policy. >>
Is that actually a law or just a policy of the credit card companies? >>
It is in the terms of use/contract between the credit card companies and most merchants.
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, This has caused me to stop bidding on a coin I want. Just like the last one that I bid up to $4600 in Live with me being underbidder, I was top bid on this one when internet bidding closed. I got outbid by someone special in the closed part again and the bid now is above $3000 with Live bidding tonight. I will not participate in the Live bidding this time as I can't float the extra $1,000 on the credit card. Congrats to the high bidder who gets it for a grand cheaper than I would bid. Sorry for the seller who did not maximize their profit. Heritage still makes their 15% so it is all good... >>
Are you saying that coins are selling for less money because of the credit card limit change? Do you have any empirical evidence to this effect, or is this supposition? If it is the former I would like to include that evidence in my seminar, if it is the latter than is sounds like you are punishing yourself because Heritage no longer wants to subsidize your purchases. Either way I don't get it. >>
Every person in this thread who said they held off bidding because of this change is your evidence. The final bids would have been higher but for this change (assuming the posters here are all honest).
I have a card that gives me cash back on purchases so in making my bids I factor that amount into what I'm willing to put in for my max bid. It hasn't happened yet, but if I know my invoice will be over $2500, I will definitely be placing lower max bids on the coins knowing that I won't be getting the credit card rewards.
It's also not just about the credit card rewards. When buying from Heritage in the past, orders are shipped much quicker when I paid via credit card vs. any time I paid via check or bank transfer. So getting my coins much faster was another reason I preferred to pay by card.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>Every person in this thread who said they held off bidding because of this change is your evidence. The final bids would have been higher but for this change (assuming the posters here are all honest). >>
That evidence is not sufficient to prove the point. One would also need to prove that the posters here would have been one of the top two bidders in the auctions in which they participated.
<< <i>
<< <i>Every person in this thread who said they held off bidding because of this change is your evidence. The final bids would have been higher but for this change (assuming the posters here are all honest). >>
That evidence is not sufficient to prove the point. One would also need to prove that the posters here would have been one of the top two bidders in the auctions in which they participated. >>
BINGO!!!
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
<< <i>Heritage mails me stuff all the time wanting me to sell them coins or make consignments. I have only bought coins from Heritage. So I decide to get them a shot at auctioning a couple of coins to test the waters. Send them an e-mail wanting to consign two gold coins. Heritage replied that the coins are worth under $5000 and I should sell them on e-bay! Wow! >>
I take coins on consignment!
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>Heritage mails me stuff all the time wanting me to sell them coins or make consignments. I have only bought coins from Heritage. So I decide to get them a shot at auctioning a couple of coins to test the waters. Send them an e-mail wanting to consign two gold coins. Heritage replied that the coins are worth under $5000 and I should sell them on e-bay! Wow! >>
I said it before:
It seems to me that they are trying to run off the little guy (both as a buyer and a seller). It is just as much work to set up a coin that sells for $50
as one that sells for $50,000 or even $500,000. So, obviously expensive coins are more cost effective for them.
<< <i>
<< <i>Every person in this thread who said they held off bidding because of this change is your evidence. The final bids would have been higher but for this change (assuming the posters here are all honest). >>
That evidence is not sufficient to prove the point. One would also need to prove that the posters here would have been one of the top two bidders in the auctions in which they participated. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, This has caused me to stop bidding on a coin I want. Just like the last one that I bid up to $4600 in Live with me being underbidder, I was top bid on this one when internet bidding closed. I got outbid by someone special in the closed part again and the bid now is above $3000 with Live bidding tonight. I will not participate in the Live bidding this time as I can't float the extra $1,000 on the credit card. Congrats to the high bidder who gets it for a grand cheaper than I would bid. Sorry for the seller who did not maximize their profit. Heritage still makes their 15% so it is all good... >>
Are you saying that coins are selling for less money because of the credit card limit change? Do you have any empirical evidence to this effect, or is this supposition? If it is the former I would like to include that evidence in my seminar, if it is the latter than is sounds like you are punishing yourself because Heritage no longer wants to subsidize your purchases. Either way I don't get it. >>
I can say as a fact.. there are 2 double eagle gold coins in Friday's auction that I like and would have won .
<< <i>I can say as a fact.. there are 2 double eagle gold coins in Friday's auction that I like and would have won . >>
Isn't Friday tomorrow?
<< <i>
<< <i>I can say as a fact.. there are 2 double eagle gold coins in Friday's auction that I like and would have won . >>
Isn't Friday tomorrow? >>
If I see something I really want/ need in an auction .. it is mine at what ever price
<< <i>If I see something I really want/ need in an auction .. it is mine at what ever price >>
Okay. So- what were you going to bid on and what would the hammer price have been if you were bidding?
<< <i>
<< <i>If I see something I really want/ need in an auction .. it is mine at what ever price >>
Okay. So- what were you going to bid on and what would the hammer price have been if you were bidding? >>
either the 2 coins would have totaled $ 10,000.... or if the price was very strong. 1 coin . only bidding if Heritage accepted $ 10,000 for cc purchase,, so sellers may take in less
I won a coin yesterday for my max, that I thought wouldn't win....maybe I got lucky and maybe folks are staying away due to the changes....'preciate it
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment