<< <i>from whackypedia and i am not a lawyer, but:
illegal in California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma and Texas.
against visa policy everywhere.
on the other hand in the UK the no surcharge policy is what is against the law. so merchants can charge one and visa can't enforce their policy.>>
Many gas stations in Massachusetts charge extra for credit cards. >>
Your point is?
If you were a merchant and accepting CCs would you agree to give the CC company 5% instead of 3% just so they could give me a higher cash back if I used their card to buy from you? >>
My friend owns 3 fast food stores in chicago area..... after he started taking credit cards.. his per tab sales rose 18 %.. more than covering cc costs
<< <i>from whackypedia and i am not a lawyer, but:
illegal in California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma and Texas.
against visa policy everywhere.
on the other hand in the UK the no surcharge policy is what is against the law. so merchants can charge one and visa can't enforce their policy.>>
Many gas stations in Massachusetts charge extra for credit cards. >>
Your point is?
If you were a merchant and accepting CCs would you agree to give the CC company 5% instead of 3% just so they could give me a higher cash back if I used their card to buy from you? >>
My friend owns 3 fast food stores in chicago area..... after he started taking credit cards.. his per tab sales rose 18 %.. more than covering cc costs >>
I guess we'll find out soon if it was a good move for Heritage or not.
I bet the price will be much better for buyer for HA next auction. Since credit buyer usually bid much more aggressive then cash buyer. Maybe for the same reason, I fund SW price always better than HA. I always spend a lot more on SW than HA.
This will definitely affect my purchase patterns. I know I shouldn't fund such things on a CC, but I try to budget purchases and often have 3-4 auctions competing at the same time, usually 2 coin and 2 book...If there's something I "need" in only one or two, I pay by check...if there's something in all, I'll pay one or two by check and finance the others over 2-3 months. I don't know if I want to go to the hassle of setting up credit accounts at HA or Stack's...but my initial inclination is that I don't. I personally think it's silly for them to make this change in this economic environment. I think in these times, you need to make it as easy as possible for as many bidders as possible to participate.
I would think about where to consign my coins with new policies like this one that discourage bidding. >>
See, I think just the opposite. Them not having this fee will increase their ability to give me a higher percentage of the hammer, which is a good thing. Keep in mind that most of the coins from auctions go to dealers, and I believed they haven't been allowed to use a CC for some time. Also, if my money is going to go to anybody, I'd just assume it go to the auction house over a bailed-out bank!
<< <i>I bet the price will be much better for buyer for HA next auction. Since credit buyer usually bid much more aggressive then cash buyer. Maybe for the same reason, I fund SW price always better than HA. I always spend a lot more on SW than HA. >>
I disagree that the credit card buyer is more aggressive than a cash buyer. I'd guess the opposite were true. Now, a credit card buyer might be more aggressive than he or she would be had they not been allowed to use a credit card, but I don't think as a whole that credit card buyers are more aggressive than buyers who get 30 day terms or buyers who pay with a bank wire/check.
<< <i>I always thought that was built into the cost of doing business as part of the buyer/seller fees....
no kidding.
Them not having this fee will increase their ability to give me a higher percentage of the hammer...
you must be dreaming >>
Well, pretending all else is equal, and you have one company offering 95% of hammer, but they allow users to pay up to 10,000 on credit card, and you have another company offering you 97% of hammer but not allowing credit card payment, who are you going to choose? I know who I would choose. So, even if this change only allows them to preserve their current consignor terms, it is a win for the consignor, which is an auction companies highest priority. All I'm saying is that, as a consignor, I'd rather them keep my terms the same and make this change than to lower my rate and keep the credit card limit at $10K. In my mind, an auction company's first priority is to keep fresh coins coming through the door.
<< <i>I find it interesting that people here are disappointed that they will no longer be able to get perks (or get fewer perks) for free any longer.
Heaven forbid; a business actually trying to add a few dollars to their bottom line. >>
In an era when more companies are INCREASING the ways that one can pay for something and thereby making it easier and more convenient for the buyer, Heritage has decided to DECREASE the ways that one can pay, thereby making it more difficult for some to pay and thus decreasing the number of potential bidders. Heritage's lack of thinking about the consequences of this action is mind-blowing.
My current coin collecting interests are: (1) British coins 1838-1970 in XF-AU-UNC, (2) silver type coins in XF-AU with that classic medium gray coloration and exceptional eye appeal.
Hammer price is only good when strong bidders show up to play. I know plenty of collectors that fund their new coin purchases with sales of currently owned coins (like when attempting to purchase an upgrade). In such case, some of these collectors try to purchase the new coin on credit. If successful, they sell the coin that was upgraded to pay the credit card back after the upgrade has been purchased.
Limiting payment options makes your bidder base smaller. Hammer prices are not as strong when less bidders show up to play (or are able to bid on your coin). How good can getting 97% of hammer be if the coin is worth $2500 plus and only a few cash bidders show up to play?
The way I look at it, and this is nothing personal, is that if I can't pay cash for it, I probably don't really need it. All my ccs get paid off in full every month. Note this does not apply to big ticket items, such as a new car or house.
They're still accepting cc payments, they just lowered the max allowable.
I received an amazingly quick reply from Heritage. They understand that not being able to pay by credit card might be an inconvenience. They then invited my to pay by bank wire! LOL
Here's the (canned) response I got back from them:
"Thank you for your feedback. I understand that our payment policy change in regards to credit card and PayPal payments could be an inconvenience. However, we do accept several other forms of payment. For fastest receipt of funds, payment with a bank wire, cashier’s check, or bank money order clears immediately upon receipt. Or you may have previously arranged credit with Heritage for an open account.
If you would like the instructions for a bank wire transfer, I will be happy to provide that information upon request.
You are able to process payment online with an eCheck at www.ha.com by: 1. Signing into your HA Account with your username and password. 2. Click My Heritage 3. Click My Orders 4. Click Pay Now
We also accept personal and business checks, but please be aware that when paying with a check we hold the shipment for a minimum of 5 business days (up to 20, in some cases) to verify good funds. Once the verification period has ended the package will be released for shipping. You may mail your check or money order to us at: [address]"
In other words, "thanks for the complaint, but we pretty much made up our mind on this one."
If the ability to finance a purchase is the issue, I'm not sure I see what the problem is. You can always get a cash advance on your credit card, can't you?
<< <i>If the ability to finance a purchase is the issue, I'm not sure I see what the problem is. You can always get a cash advance on your credit card, can't you? >>
Sure but that's big difference in interest the CC charge on cash advance.
I am sure the price will be better for buyer next time. I know for the fact if I can use 10K credit I would have bid up couple coins. In fact I called HA to lower my max bids on all my bids so I can get bid out. I even talk to some ovesea buyers they told me they like to pay in credit card they will bid less if they have to go cash.
Maybe HA has seen dealers pull back there bidding because of too many online folks and this is an attempt to placate dealers who will be happy to sell there winnings via credit cards
The change won't affect my bidding at Heritage at all. My invoices rarely exceed $2,500.
For those who do (did) make large purchases counting on the float and perks? I can understand being upset but the change was $10k to $2.5k. Not $50k to $50. It's not a huge change in my mind..
P.S. On a similar note, I use to pay with an eCheck every time and take the 1% credit in lieu of 1% Cashback from my CC. I moved last summer and forgot to update my new bank account on Heritage. They hit me with a $25 fee when the payment didn't clear. Ouch! All CC or PayPal since then.
How do you know how much time, effort, and research went into this policy change? I always enjoy it when the folks impose their beliefs about how someone else's business should be run. That's the only thing that is "mind-blowing".
IMO we here in the USA live in a credit based society, and most people typically purchase expensive discretionary / luxury items on a CC they would probably never buy if they had to pay cash.
I would think as a business that sells and auctions nothing but discretionary / luxury items, they would want to make it as easy and convenient as possible for customers to do business with them and spend as much as possible?
<< <i>I would think as a business that sells and auctions nothing but discretionary / luxury items, they would want to make it as easy and convenient as possible for customers to do business with them and spend as much as possible? >>
Yes, they probably just made an arbitrary policy change after waking up one morning and thinking "Why the hell not?"
<< <i>I would think as a business that sells and auctions nothing but discretionary / luxury items, they would want to make it as easy and convenient as possible for customers to do business with them and spend as much as possible? >>
Yes, they probably just made an arbitrary policy change after waking up one morning and thinking "Why the hell not?" >>
Really?
My guess is that they did a careful study of the cost of doing business, particularly on the sale of expensive coins over $2500, and determined that it is in their financial best interest to limit the sale of auction coins paid by credit card to those under $2500.
My guess is they can tell you EXACTLY how much they lost in credit card fees and can stratify this by average coin price and average auction invoice.
My guess is that if this policy backfires and costs them revenue, they have the ability to change it.
My guess is that they regularly lose tens of thousands of dollars to fraudulent credit card reversals, and this played some part in their decision to limit credit card purchases.
My guess is that many of the people who say that credit card fees and fraudulent chargebacks "are the cost of doing business" have never actually run a business.
Then again, maybe Halperin and Ivy just woke up one morning and decided that they wanted to irritate their buying customers by limiting their ability to use credit cards for coin purchases.
<< <i> My guess is that many of the people who say that credit card fees and fraudulent chargebacks "are the cost of doing business" have never actually run a business. >>
Indeed. Most of the collectors who want to tell a dealer how to run their business have never run a business. you can pretty much tell the businessmen on the forum here by the reasonableness of their comments.
The age old "cost of doing business" comment is pretty funny--implying that if it is a "cost of doing business" it is magically paid from some other source.
The age old "cost of doing business" comment is pretty funny--implying that if it is a "cost of doing business" it is magically paid from some other source.
--Jerry >>
Yes, much like when we go on vacation, and we charge food, entertainment, or souvenirs to "the room". The kids generally treat "the room" as a black hole that has little or nothing to do with us...that is, until the resort slips the bill under our door the morning we depart.
Bid at Stacks Bowers - they still let you charge $5000.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
That's the old Stacks'ed - the new experience is better.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
The age old "cost of doing business" comment is pretty funny--implying that if it is a "cost of doing business" it is magically paid from some other source.
--Jerry >>
Yes, much like when we go on vacation, and we charge food, entertainment, or souvenirs to "the room". The kids generally treat "the room" as a black hole that has little or nothing to do with us...that is, until the resort slips the bill under our door the morning we depart. >>
Yes, my kids love the country club account. Son at 11 is becoming very fiscally responsible and even wants to stay home and save money since he is coveting a $400 driver. Daughter thinks anything she can charge at the club is free. --Jerry
<< <i>Heritage's lack of thinking about the consequences of this action is mind-blowing.
How do you know how much time, effort, and research went into this policy change?
I always enjoy it when the folks impose their beliefs about how someone else's business should be run. That's the only thing that is "mind-blowing". >>
This new Heritage policy doesn't affect wealthy collectors like you, RYK. This new policy affects average collectors like me and most of the members of this forum. But you're right, RYK. Instead of questioning Heritage and their policy that directly affects average collectors, I should just sit back, smile, and support Heritage uncriticially. I mean, how dare I actually question the way a business chooses to operate, especially when the consequences are so blatantly negative toward average collectors. How dare I voice my opinions about a policy that greatly alters the way that some of us participate in this hobby. But you are correct - I don't know how much QUANTITY of thought went into the decision. But based on the obvious consequences that will most assuredly ensue, I can fairly accurately assume that not much QUALITY of thought went into it. Oh sure, they may be trying to prevent fraudulent CC charges from eating into their profit margin. And as a financial analyst I applaud them for trying to combat this problem. But their "solution" negatively impacts real, honest collectors who simply want to be able to buy coins with as much ease, convenience, flexibility, and choice of payment options as possible.
The fact is, not all of us have your kind of money, RYK where a $10,000 coin is not a big deal. Some of us, in order to buy that special coin, have to finance the purchase. And we don't mind doing that because to us, that $10,000 coin is special. What Heritage's policy has done is to prevent those of us who can't immediately afford those kinds of coins from bidding on them and winning them. Why? Simply because we don't have the trough of cash on hand to pay for it. Well, my credit is beyond solid; in fact, it's impeccable. I ALWAYS pay my debts. And I consider it a slap in the face by Heritage that is ultimately making a value judgment about me and other collectors of average means. They're ultimately saying, "BarberFanatic, you and those who have a similar financial standing aren't wealthy enough, and therefore, aren't worthy enough to own this coin because we can't/won't exercise better control over our own financial operations. Instead of doing more on our end of things to prevent fraud, and instead of working more closely with VISA/MC and the like, we're simply going to limit EVERYONE'S ability to buy from us, regardless of how honest they have been/are in their financial dealings with us and how long they've had stellar payment history with us."
Financial interest or not, Heritage is making it more difficult for many of its customers to do business with them. I absolutely will have to scale my purchases from them WAY back. And I'm certain there are a lot more collectors who will have to do the same. And that's just fine for the wealthy collectors and dealers who will have fewer bidders to compete against. But it upsets me and other collectors of modest means because we love this hobby and we love being able to own coins from time to time that we couldn't otherwise afford unless we finance them with a CC.
That is why I'm angry. And that is why I say their decision was made with utter lack of quality of thought behind it. Contrary to your claims, they did NOT consider all of the implications of their action. And if they did, then ultimately we are left to conclude that they care more about their convenience than that of their customers.
My current coin collecting interests are: (1) British coins 1838-1970 in XF-AU-UNC, (2) silver type coins in XF-AU with that classic medium gray coloration and exceptional eye appeal.
Well.... my coin club decided to postpone consigning to the upcoming Heritage Central States auction...... somewhere south of $100,000 ++... The mid bidder under $10,000 will be less at Central States.. so why chance it ?
Actually, BF, your vitriol aside, your financial analysis has failed you. You still have numerous options to finance coin purchases:
1. Heritage offers credit. 2. You can write a check from your credit card account. 3. You can write a HELOC check.
Yes, they are slightly less convenient, but #3 will likely even save you some money.
What Heritage is not doing is taking the hit for you to float or finance the purchase of your coins. It's their business. It's their choice. When you run the business, you make the choices. Perhaps it will prove unwise. Perhaps it will even put them out of business. I don't know, but I expect that they have considered the ramifications of this, the pluses and minuses, and are willing to try it.
own coins from time to time that we couldn't otherwise afford unless we finance them with a CC
I'm with RYK on this one - in addition, if you need to finance at CC rates, you probably shouldn't be buying coins. There are far cheaper options.............trust me. I know, having financed coins via virtually every means possible.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
<< <i>own coins from time to time that we couldn't otherwise afford unless we finance them with a CC
I'm with RYK on this one - in addition, if you need to finance at CC rates, you probably shouldn't be buying coins. There are far cheaper options.............trust me. I know, having financed coins via virtually every means possible. >>
Are you going to introduce BF to your friend named "Soprano"?
<< <i>Actually, BF, your vitriol aside, your financial analysis has failed you. You still have numerous options to finance coin purchases:
1. Heritage offers credit. 2. You can write a check from your credit card account. 3. You can write a HELOC check.
Yes, they are slightly less convenient, but #3 will likely even save you some money.
What Heritage is not doing is taking the hit for you to float or finance the purchase of your coins. It's their business. It's their choice. When you run the business, you make the choices. Perhaps it will prove unwise. Perhaps it will even put them out of business. I don't know, but I expect that they have considered the ramifications of this, the pluses and minuses, and are willing to try it. >>
1. for a four month period at a much higher rate (12%) than I pay with my CC. - a bad idea for me, espeically if I want to float something for longer than four months where it wouldn't be possible to do with Heritage. 2. this is an option I may have to go to, but unfortunately my CC company doesn't always offer checks on a regular basis. And paying with credit card is, as you mentioned, a LOT more convenient. 3. thanks to the housing bubble collapse, my HELOC has dried up entirely. Whereas I once had a lot of equity available to me, now I have none.
My current coin collecting interests are: (1) British coins 1838-1970 in XF-AU-UNC, (2) silver type coins in XF-AU with that classic medium gray coloration and exceptional eye appeal.
<< <i>I'm with RYK on this one - in addition, if you need to finance at CC rates, you probably shouldn't be buying coins. >>
Oh I know, because numismatics is a hobby best left to wealthy collectors. How I choose to pay for coins is not your concern.
My current coin collecting interests are: (1) British coins 1838-1970 in XF-AU-UNC, (2) silver type coins in XF-AU with that classic medium gray coloration and exceptional eye appeal.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>from whackypedia and i am not a lawyer, but:
illegal in California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma and Texas.
against visa policy everywhere.
on the other hand in the UK the no surcharge policy is what is against the law. so merchants can charge one and visa can't enforce their policy.>>
Many gas stations in Massachusetts charge extra for credit cards. >>
Your point is?
If you were a merchant and accepting CCs would you agree to give the CC company 5% instead of 3% just so they could give me a higher cash back if I used their card to buy from you? >>
My friend owns 3 fast food stores in chicago area..... after he started taking credit cards.. his per tab sales rose 18 %.. more than covering cc costs
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>from whackypedia and i am not a lawyer, but:
illegal in California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma and Texas.
against visa policy everywhere.
on the other hand in the UK the no surcharge policy is what is against the law. so merchants can charge one and visa can't enforce their policy.>>
Many gas stations in Massachusetts charge extra for credit cards. >>
Your point is?
If you were a merchant and accepting CCs would you agree to give the CC company 5% instead of 3% just so they could give me a higher cash back if I used their card to buy from you? >>
My friend owns 3 fast food stores in chicago area..... after he started taking credit cards.. his per tab sales rose 18 %.. more than covering cc costs >>
I guess we'll find out soon if it was a good move for Heritage or not.
<< <i>I have been paying my Heritage invoices by echeck. Previously, they were giving a small discount for doing so. No longer. >>
They used to offer an eCheck discount if you at first tried paying with a credit card. I forgot to try that this time.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>
<< <i>I have been paying my Heritage invoices by echeck. Previously, they were giving a small discount for doing so. No longer. >>
They used to offer an eCheck discount if you at first tried paying with a credit card. I forgot to try that this time. >>
For the first time, this trick did not work.
Link
<< <i>I decided to write them and complain. Maybe they will listen.
Link >>
I just sent one also.
I would think about where to consign my coins with new policies like this one that discourage bidding.
<< <i>
<< <i>I decided to write them and complain. Maybe they will listen.
Link >>
I just sent one also.
I would think about where to consign my coins with new policies like this one that discourage bidding. >>
See, I think just the opposite. Them not having this fee will increase their ability to give me a higher percentage of the hammer, which is a good thing. Keep in mind that most of the coins from auctions go to dealers, and I believed they haven't been allowed to use a CC for some time. Also, if my money is going to go to anybody, I'd just assume it go to the auction house over a bailed-out bank!
no kidding.
Them not having this fee will increase their ability to give me a higher percentage of the hammer...
you must be dreaming
<< <i>I bet the price will be much better for buyer for HA next auction. Since credit buyer usually bid much more aggressive then cash buyer. Maybe for the same reason, I fund SW price always better than HA. I always spend a lot more on SW than HA. >>
I disagree that the credit card buyer is more aggressive than a cash buyer. I'd guess the opposite were true. Now, a credit card buyer might be more aggressive than he or she would be had they not been allowed to use a credit card, but I don't think as a whole that credit card buyers are more aggressive than buyers who get 30 day terms or buyers who pay with a bank wire/check.
<< <i>I always thought that was built into the cost of doing business as part of the buyer/seller fees....
no kidding.
Them not having this fee will increase their ability to give me a higher percentage of the hammer...
you must be dreaming
Well, pretending all else is equal, and you have one company offering 95% of hammer, but they allow users to pay up to 10,000 on credit card, and you have another company offering you 97% of hammer but not allowing credit card payment, who are you going to choose? I know who I would choose. So, even if this change only allows them to preserve their current consignor terms, it is a win for the consignor, which is an auction companies highest priority. All I'm saying is that, as a consignor, I'd rather them keep my terms the same and make this change than to lower my rate and keep the credit card limit at $10K. In my mind, an auction company's first priority is to keep fresh coins coming through the door.
<< <i> Keep in mind that most of the coins from auctions go to dealers, and I believed they haven't been allowed to use a CC for some time. >>
Maybe Heritage should just do away with the live online auction part then and save even more $$$.
Heaven forbid; a business actually trying to add a few dollars to their bottom line.
<< <i>I find it interesting that people here are disappointed that they will no longer be able to get perks (or get fewer perks) for free any longer.
Heaven forbid; a business actually trying to add a few dollars to their bottom line. >>
In an era when more companies are INCREASING the ways that one can pay for something and thereby making it easier and more convenient for the buyer, Heritage has decided to DECREASE the ways that one can pay, thereby making it more difficult for some to pay and thus decreasing the number of potential bidders. Heritage's lack of thinking about the consequences of this action is mind-blowing.
Limiting payment options makes your bidder base smaller. Hammer prices are not as strong when less bidders show up to play (or are able to bid on your coin). How good can getting 97% of hammer be if the coin is worth $2500 plus and only a few cash bidders show up to play?
The way I look at it, and this is nothing personal, is that if I can't pay cash for it, I probably don't really need it. All my ccs get paid off in full every month. Note this does not apply to big ticket items, such as a new car or house.
They're still accepting cc payments, they just lowered the max allowable.
"Thank you for your feedback. I understand that our payment policy change in regards to credit card and PayPal payments could be an inconvenience. However, we do accept several other forms of payment. For fastest receipt of funds, payment with a bank wire, cashier’s check, or bank money order clears immediately upon receipt. Or you may have previously arranged credit with Heritage for an open account.
If you would like the instructions for a bank wire transfer, I will be happy to provide that information upon request.
You are able to process payment online with an eCheck at www.ha.com by:
1. Signing into your HA Account with your username and password.
2. Click My Heritage
3. Click My Orders
4. Click Pay Now
We also accept personal and business checks, but please be aware that when paying with a check we hold the shipment for a minimum of 5 business days (up to 20, in some cases) to verify good funds. Once the verification period has ended the package will be released for shipping. You may mail your check or money order to us at: [address]"
In other words, "thanks for the complaint, but we pretty much made up our mind on this one."
<< <i>Heaven forbid; a business actually trying to add a few dollars to their bottom line. >>
It becomes a problem when it's MY dollars that they're trying to add to their bottom line!
How do you know how much time, effort, and research went into this policy change?
I always enjoy it when the folks impose their beliefs about how someone else's business should be run. That's the only thing that is "mind-blowing".
<< <i>If the ability to finance a purchase is the issue, I'm not sure I see what the problem is. You can always get a cash advance on your credit card, can't you? >>
Sure but that's big difference in interest the CC charge on cash advance.
For those who do (did) make large purchases counting on the float and perks? I can understand being upset but the change was $10k to $2.5k. Not $50k to $50. It's not a huge change in my mind..
P.S. On a similar note, I use to pay with an eCheck every time and take the 1% credit in lieu of 1% Cashback from my CC. I moved last summer and forgot to update my new bank account on Heritage. They hit me with a $25 fee when the payment didn't clear. Ouch! All CC or PayPal since then.
I always enjoy it when the folks impose their beliefs about how someone else's business should be run. That's the only thing that is "mind-blowing".
+1
I would think as a business that sells and auctions nothing but discretionary / luxury items, they would want to make it as easy and convenient as possible for customers to do business with them and spend as much as possible?
<< <i>I would think as a business that sells and auctions nothing but discretionary / luxury items, they would want to make it as easy and convenient as possible for customers to do business with them and spend as much as possible? >>
Yes, they probably just made an arbitrary policy change after waking up one morning and thinking "Why the hell not?"
<< <i>
<< <i>I would think as a business that sells and auctions nothing but discretionary / luxury items, they would want to make it as easy and convenient as possible for customers to do business with them and spend as much as possible? >>
Yes, they probably just made an arbitrary policy change after waking up one morning and thinking "Why the hell not?"
Really?
My guess is that they did a careful study of the cost of doing business, particularly on the sale of expensive coins over $2500, and determined that it is in their financial best interest to limit the sale of auction coins paid by credit card to those under $2500.
My guess is they can tell you EXACTLY how much they lost in credit card fees and can stratify this by average coin price and average auction invoice.
My guess is that if this policy backfires and costs them revenue, they have the ability to change it.
My guess is that they regularly lose tens of thousands of dollars to fraudulent credit card reversals, and this played some part in their decision to limit credit card purchases.
My guess is that many of the people who say that credit card fees and fraudulent chargebacks "are the cost of doing business" have never actually run a business.
Then again, maybe Halperin and Ivy just woke up one morning and decided that they wanted to irritate their buying customers by limiting their ability to use credit cards for coin purchases.
<< <i>
My guess is that many of the people who say that credit card fees and fraudulent chargebacks "are the cost of doing business" have never actually run a business.
>>
Indeed. Most of the collectors who want to tell a dealer how to run their business have never run a business. you can pretty much tell the businessmen on the forum here by the reasonableness of their comments.
The age old "cost of doing business" comment is pretty funny--implying that if it is a "cost of doing business" it is magically paid from some other source.
--Jerry
<< <i>...
The age old "cost of doing business" comment is pretty funny--implying that if it is a "cost of doing business" it is magically paid from some other source.
--Jerry >>
Yes, much like when we go on vacation, and we charge food, entertainment, or souvenirs to "the room". The kids generally treat "the room" as a black hole that has little or nothing to do with us...that is, until the resort slips the bill under our door the morning we depart.
Bid at Stacks Bowers - they still let you charge $5000.
<< <i>Holy cow - this thread is still alive??
Bid at Stacks Bowers - they still let you charge $5000.
Yes, but the cost of getting Stacks'ed is priceless.
<< <i>
<< <i>...
The age old "cost of doing business" comment is pretty funny--implying that if it is a "cost of doing business" it is magically paid from some other source.
--Jerry >>
Yes, much like when we go on vacation, and we charge food, entertainment, or souvenirs to "the room". The kids generally treat "the room" as a black hole that has little or nothing to do with us...that is, until the resort slips the bill under our door the morning we depart. >>
Yes, my kids love the country club account. Son at 11 is becoming very fiscally responsible and even wants to stay home and save money since he is coveting a $400 driver. Daughter thinks anything she can charge at the club is free. --Jerry
<< <i>Heritage's lack of thinking about the consequences of this action is mind-blowing.
How do you know how much time, effort, and research went into this policy change?
I always enjoy it when the folks impose their beliefs about how someone else's business should be run. That's the only thing that is "mind-blowing". >>
This new Heritage policy doesn't affect wealthy collectors like you, RYK. This new policy affects average collectors like me and most of the members of this forum. But you're right, RYK.
Instead of questioning Heritage and their policy that directly affects average collectors, I should just sit back, smile, and support Heritage uncriticially. I mean, how dare I actually
question the way a business chooses to operate, especially when the consequences are so blatantly negative toward average collectors. How dare I voice my opinions about a policy
that greatly alters the way that some of us participate in this hobby. But you are correct - I don't know how much QUANTITY of thought went into the decision. But based on the
obvious consequences that will most assuredly ensue, I can fairly accurately assume that not much QUALITY of thought went into it. Oh sure, they may be trying to prevent fraudulent
CC charges from eating into their profit margin. And as a financial analyst I applaud them for trying to combat this problem. But their "solution" negatively impacts real, honest collectors
who simply want to be able to buy coins with as much ease, convenience, flexibility, and choice of payment options as possible.
The fact is, not all of us have your kind of money, RYK where a $10,000 coin is not a big deal. Some of us, in order to buy that special coin, have to finance the purchase. And we don't mind
doing that because to us, that $10,000 coin is special. What Heritage's policy has done is to prevent those of us who can't immediately afford those kinds of coins from bidding on them
and winning them. Why? Simply because we don't have the trough of cash on hand to pay for it. Well, my credit is beyond solid; in fact, it's impeccable. I ALWAYS pay my debts. And I
consider it a slap in the face by Heritage that is ultimately making a value judgment about me and other collectors of average means. They're ultimately saying, "BarberFanatic, you and
those who have a similar financial standing aren't wealthy enough, and therefore, aren't worthy enough to own this coin because we can't/won't exercise better control over
our own financial operations. Instead of doing more on our end of things to prevent fraud, and instead of working more closely with VISA/MC and the like, we're simply going to limit
EVERYONE'S ability to buy from us, regardless of how honest they have been/are in their financial dealings with us and how long they've had stellar payment history with us."
Financial interest or not, Heritage is making it more difficult for many of its customers to do business with them. I absolutely will have to scale my purchases from them WAY back. And I'm
certain there are a lot more collectors who will have to do the same. And that's just fine for the wealthy collectors and dealers who will have fewer bidders to compete against. But it upsets
me and other collectors of modest means because we love this hobby and we love being able to own coins from time to time that we couldn't otherwise afford unless we finance them with a CC.
That is why I'm angry. And that is why I say their decision was made with utter lack of quality of thought behind it. Contrary to your claims, they did NOT consider all of the implications of their
action. And if they did, then ultimately we are left to conclude that they care more about their convenience than that of their customers.
1. Heritage offers credit.
2. You can write a check from your credit card account.
3. You can write a HELOC check.
Yes, they are slightly less convenient, but #3 will likely even save you some money.
What Heritage is not doing is taking the hit for you to float or finance the purchase of your coins. It's their business. It's their choice. When you run the business, you make the choices. Perhaps it will prove unwise. Perhaps it will even put them out of business. I don't know, but I expect that they have considered the ramifications of this, the pluses and minuses, and are willing to try it.
I'm with RYK on this one - in addition, if you need to finance at CC rates, you probably shouldn't be buying coins. There are far cheaper options.............trust me. I know, having financed coins via virtually every means possible.
<< <i>own coins from time to time that we couldn't otherwise afford unless we finance them with a CC
I'm with RYK on this one - in addition, if you need to finance at CC rates, you probably shouldn't be buying coins. There are far cheaper options.............trust me. I know, having financed coins via virtually every means possible.
Are you going to introduce BF to your friend named "Soprano"?
<< <i>Actually, BF, your vitriol aside, your financial analysis has failed you. You still have numerous options to finance coin purchases:
1. Heritage offers credit.
2. You can write a check from your credit card account.
3. You can write a HELOC check.
Yes, they are slightly less convenient, but #3 will likely even save you some money.
What Heritage is not doing is taking the hit for you to float or finance the purchase of your coins. It's their business. It's their choice. When you run the business, you make the choices. Perhaps it will prove unwise. Perhaps it will even put them out of business. I don't know, but I expect that they have considered the ramifications of this, the pluses and minuses, and are willing to try it. >>
1. for a four month period at a much higher rate (12%) than I pay with my CC. - a bad idea for me, espeically if I want to float something for longer than four months where it wouldn't be possible to do with Heritage.
2. this is an option I may have to go to, but unfortunately my CC company doesn't always offer checks on a regular basis. And paying with credit card is, as you mentioned, a LOT more convenient.
3. thanks to the housing bubble collapse, my HELOC has dried up entirely. Whereas I once had a lot of equity available to me, now I have none.
<< <i>I'm with RYK on this one - in addition, if you need to finance at CC rates, you probably shouldn't be buying coins. >>
Oh I know, because numismatics is a hobby best left to wealthy collectors. How I choose to pay for coins is not your concern.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm with RYK on this one - in addition, if you need to finance at CC rates, you probably shouldn't be buying coins. >>
Oh I know, because numismatics is a hobby best left to wealthy collectors. How I choose to pay for coins is not your concern. >>
You brought up how you pay for coins in your manifesto and subsequent posts, making it the forum's concern. Lakes was just trying to help.
Numismatics is for everyone. So is having a chip on one's shoulder.
<< <i>I absolutely will have to scale my purchases from them WAY back. >>
Your credit card doesn't offer cash advances? From what I've seen, most do.