How do you send 70s back for grade review and how much does it costs? I also got 2 bulk-graded S and RP with visible frost breaks that I'm not happy with.
<< <i>M I have made or purchased close to 100 of the PCGS graded ASE's from the 25th set. As many on this message board have observed the grading on the Mercantis and Tombstones has been inconsistent - that has been my experience as well.I have returned or sold about 15% of the coins I purchased as they were in my opinion easily a point over (and in two coins 2 pts) where they should be. Now if purchasing these coins for my collection I either ask the seller to hand pick a nice coin or make sure there is a return option. Maybe I am just unlucky but its worth a small premium to get nice coins for the grade and avoid the hassles and cost of returns or disappointment of keeping a low end example. >>
You're not alone. I've had a similar experience and believe that the graders may have been "under the gun" to get the bulk submissions back to the Dealers ASAP. Not true with the Flag labels though. I suspect that the 70 to 69 ratio graded coins are much lower with the Flag labels. >>
Just a few posts ago you called NGC graded coins "modern junk" but you make excuses for our host. That's funny.
<< <i>How do you send 70s back for grade review and how much does it costs? I also got 2 bulk-graded S and RP with visible frost breaks that I'm not happy with. >>
$25 + (fee refunded if coin downgrades) Not sure about refund on the insured postage and the $8 handling fee)
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i>How do you send 70s back for grade review and how much does it costs? I also got 2 bulk-graded S and RP with visible frost breaks that I'm not happy with. >>
$25 + (fee refunded if coin downgrades) Not sure about refund on the insured postage and the $8 handling fee) >>
If they end up staying the same grade David Hall puts a sticky on the coin. I did on 2 of my coins and he wrote these coins are virtually perfect and deserving of the grade it got. Granted they were 69s (thought I sent in the 70s but guess not) but still cool to have. Ended up selling the full 69 set though.
I'm submitting a 70 coin that has visible shiny spots on: -Near the T on obverse -On the sun -On the dress of the lady -On the arm of the lady -Dent on the edge of the coin
Really not sure how it got a 70 but I suspect the dents etc. may be when they package the coin in the slab. I was informed it was machine done but still have my suspicions on the slabbing process not at fault of PCGS but rather just how quick the coins were put to the slab process due to large submissions they probably currently still have to go through.
Shiny things in PM I would call PCGS and see what they would pay if your S and/or RPR downgraded to 69's. When I have sent coins for spot review I paid to get the coins there and PCGS covered the rest. On my obviously not so nice seventies I returned the 70 set with a poor S(seller only accepted returns would not exchange),exchanged another 70 S/Rev Pr and sold the not so great "common" dates on ebay.I decided not to take a chance on eating shipping two ways,plus grading fees on the common dates that I couldn't exchange. A few other 70's with a pinpoint shiny spot(or two) are first in line to be sold when I decide to take profits(hopefully) in the future. Please let us know what PCGS says/does for you.
<< <i>How do you send 70s back for grade review and how much does it costs? I also got 2 bulk-graded S and RP with visible frost breaks that I'm not happy with. >>
$25 + (fee refunded if coin downgrades) Not sure about refund on the insured postage and the $8 handling fee) >>
Where does the $25 come from? Shouldn't it be based on the difference between the market price of the incorrect grade and the new grade?
<< <i>How do you send 70s back for grade review and how much does it costs? I also got 2 bulk-graded S and RP with visible frost breaks that I'm not happy with. >>
$25 + (fee refunded if coin downgrades) Not sure about refund on the insured postage and the $8 handling fee) >>
Where does the $25 come from? Shouldn't it be based on the difference between the market price of the incorrect grade and the new grade? >>
I think $25 is the cost to have them look at it, which is then refunded if you turn out to be correct and the coin downgrades. If the coin downgrades, you get your fee back plus you get to invoke the guarantee.
<< <i>Finally these sealed sets are drying up on ebay. If they hit $5K I am sure plenty will appear. >>
My mom has a sealed box of 3 sets and a sealed box of 2 sets. They both make the cutoff date. If they hit the $1000+ per set, you can bet I will be telling her that it is time to sell at least the box of 3 sets
What was the high that these reached in Mid. Nov? >>
I don't know about ebay, but I heard that people with sealed sets at the Baltimore coin show were being approached with offers of $900/set. I was hoping the same thing would happen at Santa Clara, but it didn't.
BST Boards Danny Marks is looking for a box of 5 paying 4050........no e-bay fees.........that is a new threshold..............5000 per box here we come!!!
<< <i>BST Boards Danny Marks is looking for a box of 5 paying 4050........no e-bay fees.........that is a new threshold..............5000 per box here we come!!! >>
What was the high that these reached in Mid. Nov? >>
I don't know about ebay, but I heard that people with sealed sets at the Baltimore coin show were being approached with offers of $900/set. I was hoping the same thing would happen at Santa Clara, but it didn't. >>
Yes, as I recall, $4500 for the box of 5 was right around the high. It dropped to $4000 within a couple of days, bottoming right around $3000 before coming back to where it is now. I also think these have tremendous potential intermediate to long term, but it will be interesting to see whether lots of boxes hit the market if they get back to the old highs.
As far as I can tell, demand has been pretty steady throughout (it seemed to spike in the very beginning, explaining the quick run up to $4500, and then leveled off), while supply has really dried up in the past few weeks. It would be great if that happened indefinitely, but just from the comments on this board, it looks like another wave of supply will hit the market at $1,000/set. I wonder what will happen if the market pauses at $900? Will people who want to sell at $1,000 continue to wait, or will they become sellers out of fear of missing the $900 boat a second time?
What was the high that these reached in Mid. Nov? >>
I don't know about ebay, but I heard that people with sealed sets at the Baltimore coin show were being approached with offers of $900/set. I was hoping the same thing would happen at Santa Clara, but it didn't. >>
Yes, as I recall, $4500 for the box of 5 was right around the high. It dropped to $4000 within a couple of days, bottoming right around $3000 before coming back to where it is now. I also think these have tremendous potential intermediate to long term, but it will be interesting to see whether lots of boxes hit the market if they get back to the old highs.
As far as I can tell, demand has been pretty steady throughout (it seemed to spike in the very beginning, explaining the quick run up to $4500, and then leveled off), while supply has really dried up in the past few weeks. It would be great if that happened indefinitely, but just from the comments on this board, it looks like another wave of supply will hit the market at $1,000/set. I wonder what will happen if the market pauses at $900? Will people who want to sell at $1,000 continue to wait, or will they become sellers out of fear of missing the $900 boat a second time? >>
Looking at patterns, I would go out on a limb and suggest that they would have gone higher if there hadn't been such a high percentage in the hands of insta-flippers. From watching over the years, whenever "hot issues" seem to be spread out, they go higher and spend a little longer in the high points. When they are bought as insta-flips and people want in and want out quickly, to pay the bills, make their % quickly as they watch prices start to drop because they put up 10 sales of their own competing at the same time, etc, then things drop quickly. They rebound, to a point though.
I think that is what we are seeing. Now, what is interesting on this one is the low mintage and the way people were shut out in mere hours. I think round 2 is coming up on these soon.
I sold a sealed set for 1K last year. The market hopefully will not be as saturated, though I will be not be selling my FS Eligible sealed sets at 1K. Though now the mint is making the S minted ASE next year. Do we really need a W and S minted ASE for future years. This is overkill by the mint.
What was the high that these reached in Mid. Nov? >>
I don't know about ebay, but I heard that people with sealed sets at the Baltimore coin show were being approached with offers of $900/set. I was hoping the same thing would happen at Santa Clara, but it didn't. >>
Yes, as I recall, $4500 for the box of 5 was right around the high. It dropped to $4000 within a couple of days, bottoming right around $3000 before coming back to where it is now. I also think these have tremendous potential intermediate to long term, but it will be interesting to see whether lots of boxes hit the market if they get back to the old highs.
As far as I can tell, demand has been pretty steady throughout (it seemed to spike in the very beginning, explaining the quick run up to $4500, and then leveled off), while supply has really dried up in the past few weeks. It would be great if that happened indefinitely, but just from the comments on this board, it looks like another wave of supply will hit the market at $1,000/set. I wonder what will happen if the market pauses at $900? Will people who want to sell at $1,000 continue to wait, or will they become sellers out of fear of missing the $900 boat a second time? >>
Looking at patterns, I would go out on a limb and suggest that they would have gone higher if there hadn't been such a high percentage in the hands of insta-flippers. From watching over the years, whenever "hot issues" seem to be spread out, they go higher and spend a little longer in the high points. When they are bought as insta-flips and people want in and want out quickly, to pay the bills, make their % quickly as they watch prices start to drop because they put up 10 sales of their own competing at the same time, etc, then things drop quickly. They rebound, to a point though.
I think that is what we are seeing. Now, what is interesting on this one is the low mintage and the way people were shut out in mere hours. I think round 2 is coming up on these soon. >>
I agree with your analysis in its entirety. I was only speculating as to whether we might have another leg down at $900, IF any of the so-called insta-flippers who didn't get flushed out at $600 during the first round hit the market if/when we get back to the previous high. I am not predicting one way or the other. In any event, I didn't buy for a quick flip, so in the long run either I'm right that these are big winners over time, or I'm wrong, and I will have blown the chance to make 2-3x my money in a few weeks.
No matter what happens, I don't think we'll ever see a sealed box anywhere near $600 ever again, unless they all develop terrible spotting issues over time. Over 35,000 have already been graded, not including the ANACS/ICG crap that HSN hawks. Tens of thousands more have been opened and not sent in for grading. NGC and PCGS have no doubt graded already graded more than half of the total they are ever going to grade.
Just as an investment, which necessarily means never getting to enjoy the coins, the sealed boxes will only trend up from here. Their potential will be limited only by how high 70 sets ultimately go, which may not be the moon based on the percentage that are coming back 70 from both companies, but should still be significantly higher than the fire sale prices we have seen over the past month or so. If I am right, and raw, opened sets ultimately hit $1,000 or more, it's difficult to imagine 70 sets not going for north of $2,000. Sets grading 69 will end up being the best deals of all, since they look like just like 70s to the untrained eye, are very attractive even to the trained eye (most of the time!), and look like they may never sell for more than opened sets due to the tiny percentage of sub-69 grades coming back from both TPGs. The ability to buy coins graded 69 from a major TPG for the same price (or even a small discount to) ungraded coins (only talking about opened sets; I realize that the probability of receiving 70s from sealed sets is why they should carry a premium to 69s) seems like an awesome deal to me.
What was the high that these reached in Mid. Nov? >>
I don't know about ebay, but I heard that people with sealed sets at the Baltimore coin show were being approached with offers of $900/set. I was hoping the same thing would happen at Santa Clara, but it didn't. >>
The Balto show was perfectly timed for these. Sorry I was working.
What was the high that these reached in Mid. Nov? >>
I don't know about ebay, but I heard that people with sealed sets at the Baltimore coin show were being approached with offers of $900/set. I was hoping the same thing would happen at Santa Clara, but it didn't. >>
Yes, as I recall, $4500 for the box of 5 was right around the high. It dropped to $4000 within a couple of days, bottoming right around $3000 before coming back to where it is now. I also think these have tremendous potential intermediate to long term, but it will be interesting to see whether lots of boxes hit the market if they get back to the old highs.
As far as I can tell, demand has been pretty steady throughout (it seemed to spike in the very beginning, explaining the quick run up to $4500, and then leveled off), while supply has really dried up in the past few weeks. It would be great if that happened indefinitely, but just from the comments on this board, it looks like another wave of supply will hit the market at $1,000/set. I wonder what will happen if the market pauses at $900? Will people who want to sell at $1,000 continue to wait, or will they become sellers out of fear of missing the $900 boat a second time? >>
Looking at patterns, I would go out on a limb and suggest that they would have gone higher if there hadn't been such a high percentage in the hands of insta-flippers. From watching over the years, whenever "hot issues" seem to be spread out, they go higher and spend a little longer in the high points. When they are bought as insta-flips and people want in and want out quickly, to pay the bills, make their % quickly as they watch prices start to drop because they put up 10 sales of their own competing at the same time, etc, then things drop quickly. They rebound, to a point though.
I think that is what we are seeing. Now, what is interesting on this one is the low mintage and the way people were shut out in mere hours. I think round 2 is coming up on these soon. >>
I agree with your analysis in its entirety. I was only speculating as to whether we might have another leg down at $900, IF any of the so-called insta-flippers who didn't get flushed out at $600 during the first round hit the market if/when we get back to the previous high. I am not predicting one way or the other. In any event, I didn't buy for a quick flip, so in the long run either I'm right that these are big winners over time, or I'm wrong, and I will have blown the chance to make 2-3x my money in a few weeks.
No matter what happens, I don't think we'll ever see a sealed box anywhere near $600 ever again, unless they all develop terrible spotting issues over time. Over 35,000 have already been graded, not including the ANACS/ICG crap that HSN hawks. Tens of thousands more have been opened and not sent in for grading. NGC and PCGS have no doubt graded already graded more than half of the total they are ever going to grade.
Just as an investment, which necessarily means never getting to enjoy the coins, the sealed boxes will only trend up from here. Their potential will be limited only by how high 70 sets ultimately go, which may not be the moon based on the percentage that are coming back 70 from both companies, but should still be significantly higher than the fire sale prices we have seen over the past month or so. If I am right, and raw, opened sets ultimately hit $1,000 or more, it's difficult to imagine 70 sets not going for north of $2,000. Sets grading 69 will end up being the best deals of all, since they look like just like 70s to the untrained eye, are very attractive even to the trained eye (most of the time!), and look like they may never sell for more than opened sets due to the tiny percentage of sub-69 grades coming back from both TPGs. The ability to buy coins graded 69 from a major TPG for the same price (or even a small discount to) ungraded coins (only talking about opened sets; I realize that the probability of receiving 70s from sealed sets is why they should carry a premium to 69s) seems like an awesome deal to me. >>
Nice analysis.
Only one thing to comment on...
I have some sealed proof and unc '08 W buff sets, '08 W plat proof sets and five ASE 25 anniv. sets. While I don't get to enjoy the coins per se, I do enjoy seeing those boxes in the SDB and knowing what they're worth. So, even without seeing the coins, the sealed sets bring me enjoyment.
What was the high that these reached in Mid. Nov? >>
I don't know about ebay, but I heard that people with sealed sets at the Baltimore coin show were being approached with offers of $900/set. I was hoping the same thing would happen at Santa Clara, but it didn't. >>
The Balto show was perfectly timed for these. Sorry I was working. >>
These sets briefly touched $5300 for a sealed box of 5 on Ebay (for the record) there were at least 5-6 boxes that sold for $5000+ before the floodgates opened.
What was the high that these reached in Mid. Nov? >>
I don't know about ebay, but I heard that people with sealed sets at the Baltimore coin show were being approached with offers of $900/set. I was hoping the same thing would happen at Santa Clara, but it didn't. >>
The Balto show was perfectly timed for these. Sorry I was working. >>
These sets briefly touched $5300 for a sealed box of 5 on Ebay (for the record) there were at least 5-6 boxes that sold for $5000+ before the floodgates opened. >>
Were they pre-sales or boxes in-hand, if you recall? To me, there is a difference
What was the high that these reached in Mid. Nov? >>
I don't know about ebay, but I heard that people with sealed sets at the Baltimore coin show were being approached with offers of $900/set. I was hoping the same thing would happen at Santa Clara, but it didn't. >>
The Balto show was perfectly timed for these. Sorry I was working. >>
These sets briefly touched $5300 for a sealed box of 5 on Ebay (for the record) there were at least 5-6 boxes that sold for $5000+ before the floodgates opened. >>
Were they pre-sales or boxes in-hand, if you recall? To me, there is a difference >>
These sets briefly touched $5300 for a sealed box of 5 on Ebay (for the record) there were at least 5-6 boxes that sold for $5000+ before the floodgates opened. >>
Were they pre-sales or boxes in-hand, if you recall? To me, there is a difference >>
I can't remember seeing any Bo5 above $5k whether it is pre-sales or not.
I am seeing open sets selling for $660 or $670 on ebay (after fees, shipping, etc. what is that ... just a touch over $600/set clear for sellers?) Not sure who is paying mid-$800's, but it appears there are plenty available still in the mid-$600's. Am I missing something?
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>I am seeing open sets selling for $660 or $670 on ebay (after fees, shipping, etc. what is that ... just a touch over $600/set clear for sellers?) Not sure who is paying mid-$800's, but it appears there are plenty available still in the mid-$600's. Am I missing something?
I have noticed the graded sets are also trending up. It seems they are bouncing around the $1500 ranges right now. I am guessing we will in the $1,600 range in the next week or two. Hopefully, the trend will keep on going for a bit.
<< <i>That wasatch coin Mercanti flag set set sold for $2062.38 as an aggregate of the individual auctions.
bullion = 281.99 W PRDCAM = 295.99 S = 680.00 W = 160.50 RP = 645.00
Interesting. >>
I really like that mercanti label. Been debating on switching my mercanti coin for that but after the hours of trying to get the perfect set i dunno if i have it in me right now.
Comments
<< <i>ebay 5 sets latest bid 3925,
4200 become market clearing price in a couple of days >>
There is one listed now with a bid of $3800 with 3 days to go.
A BIN is listed now at $4200...I'm thinking it will sell .. (its not mine)
<< <i>I was looking on ebay earlier and is it just me or the supply of 25th ASE going downwards? >>
28 listings right now...thats not a whole lot. Out of those only 10 are single sealed sets.
So it would follow that as the graded sets rise in price so shall the unopened set/box....still lots of those for sale
I also got 2 bulk-graded S and RP with visible frost breaks that I'm not happy with.
<< <i>
<< <i>M I have made or purchased close to 100 of the PCGS graded ASE's from the 25th set. As many on this message board have observed the grading on the Mercantis and Tombstones has been inconsistent - that has been my experience as well.I have returned or sold about 15% of the coins I purchased as they were in my opinion easily a point over (and in two coins 2 pts) where they should be. Now if purchasing these coins for my collection I either ask the seller to hand pick a nice coin or make sure there is a return option. Maybe I am just unlucky but its worth a small premium to get nice coins for the grade and avoid the hassles and cost of returns or disappointment of keeping a low end example. >>
You're not alone. I've had a similar experience and believe that the graders may have been "under the gun" to get the bulk submissions back to the Dealers ASAP. Not true with the Flag labels though. I suspect that the 70 to 69 ratio graded coins are much lower with the Flag labels. >>
Just a few posts ago you called NGC graded coins "modern junk" but you make excuses for our host. That's funny.
<< <i>How do you send 70s back for grade review and how much does it costs?
I also got 2 bulk-graded S and RP with visible frost breaks that I'm not happy with. >>
$25 + (fee refunded if coin downgrades) Not sure about refund on the insured postage and the $8 handling fee)
<< <i>
<< <i>How do you send 70s back for grade review and how much does it costs?
I also got 2 bulk-graded S and RP with visible frost breaks that I'm not happy with. >>
$25 + (fee refunded if coin downgrades) Not sure about refund on the insured postage and the $8 handling fee) >>
If they end up staying the same grade David Hall puts a sticky on the coin. I did on 2 of my coins and he wrote these coins are virtually perfect and deserving of the grade it got. Granted they were 69s (thought I sent in the 70s but guess not) but still cool to have. Ended up selling the full 69 set though.
I'm submitting a 70 coin that has visible shiny spots on:
-Near the T on obverse
-On the sun
-On the dress of the lady
-On the arm of the lady
-Dent on the edge of the coin
Really not sure how it got a 70 but I suspect the dents etc. may be when they package the coin in the slab. I was informed it was machine done but still have my suspicions on the slabbing process not at fault of PCGS but rather just how quick the coins were put to the slab process due to large submissions they probably currently still have to go through.
On my obviously not so nice seventies I returned the 70 set with a poor S(seller only accepted returns would not exchange),exchanged another 70 S/Rev Pr and sold the not so great "common" dates on ebay.I decided not to take a chance on eating shipping two ways,plus grading fees on the common dates that I couldn't exchange. A few other 70's with a pinpoint shiny spot(or two) are first in line to be sold when I decide to take profits(hopefully) in the future. Please let us know what PCGS says/does for you.
<< <i>
<< <i>How do you send 70s back for grade review and how much does it costs?
I also got 2 bulk-graded S and RP with visible frost breaks that I'm not happy with. >>
$25 + (fee refunded if coin downgrades) Not sure about refund on the insured postage and the $8 handling fee) >>
Where does the $25 come from? Shouldn't it be based on the difference between the market price of the incorrect grade and the new grade?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>How do you send 70s back for grade review and how much does it costs?
I also got 2 bulk-graded S and RP with visible frost breaks that I'm not happy with. >>
$25 + (fee refunded if coin downgrades) Not sure about refund on the insured postage and the $8 handling fee) >>
Where does the $25 come from? Shouldn't it be based on the difference between the market price of the incorrect grade and the new grade? >>
I think $25 is the cost to have them look at it, which is then refunded if you turn out to be correct and the coin downgrades. If the coin downgrades, you get your fee back plus you get to invoke the guarantee.
link sold today!!
<< <i>Box of 5 sealed $4150
link sold today!!
Yeah meets the PCGS cutoff date, wonder what those after Dec 7th are going for. Thats what I have.
<< <i>
<< <i>Box of 5 sealed $4150
link sold today!!
Yeah meets the PCGS cutoff date, wonder what those after Dec 7th are going for. Thats what I have. >>
Niiice. Good work to those with a little patience! Nice to see these things starting to take off.
Box of 20
And they're now out-of-stock on the PCGS 69 sets.
<< <i>Finally these sealed sets are drying up on ebay. If they hit $5K I am sure plenty will appear. >>
My mom has a sealed box of 3 sets and a sealed box of 2 sets. They both make the cutoff date. If they hit the $1000+ per set, you can bet I will be telling her that it is time to sell at least the box of 3 sets
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Box of 5 sealed $4150
link sold today!!
What was the high that these reached in Mid. Nov?
<< <i>
<< <i>Box of 5 sealed $4150
link sold today!!
What was the high that these reached in Mid. Nov? >>
I don't know about ebay, but I heard that people with sealed sets at the Baltimore coin show were being approached with offers of $900/set. I was hoping the same thing would happen at Santa Clara, but it didn't.
<< <i>BST Boards Danny Marks is looking for a box of 5 paying 4050........no e-bay fees.........that is a new threshold
At 5K I'll finally sell a case
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Box of 5 sealed $4150
link sold today!!
What was the high that these reached in Mid. Nov? >>
I don't know about ebay, but I heard that people with sealed sets at the Baltimore coin show were being approached with offers of $900/set. I was hoping the same thing would happen at Santa Clara, but it didn't. >>
Yes, as I recall, $4500 for the box of 5 was right around the high. It dropped to $4000 within a couple of days, bottoming right around $3000 before coming back to where it is now. I also think these have tremendous potential intermediate to long term, but it will be interesting to see whether lots of boxes hit the market if they get back to the old highs.
As far as I can tell, demand has been pretty steady throughout (it seemed to spike in the very beginning, explaining the quick run up to $4500, and then leveled off), while supply has really dried up in the past few weeks. It would be great if that happened indefinitely, but just from the comments on this board, it looks like another wave of supply will hit the market at $1,000/set. I wonder what will happen if the market pauses at $900? Will people who want to sell at $1,000 continue to wait, or will they become sellers out of fear of missing the $900 boat a second time?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Box of 5 sealed $4150
link sold today!!
What was the high that these reached in Mid. Nov? >>
I don't know about ebay, but I heard that people with sealed sets at the Baltimore coin show were being approached with offers of $900/set. I was hoping the same thing would happen at Santa Clara, but it didn't. >>
Yes, as I recall, $4500 for the box of 5 was right around the high. It dropped to $4000 within a couple of days, bottoming right around $3000 before coming back to where it is now. I also think these have tremendous potential intermediate to long term, but it will be interesting to see whether lots of boxes hit the market if they get back to the old highs.
As far as I can tell, demand has been pretty steady throughout (it seemed to spike in the very beginning, explaining the quick run up to $4500, and then leveled off), while supply has really dried up in the past few weeks. It would be great if that happened indefinitely, but just from the comments on this board, it looks like another wave of supply will hit the market at $1,000/set. I wonder what will happen if the market pauses at $900? Will people who want to sell at $1,000 continue to wait, or will they become sellers out of fear of missing the $900 boat a second time? >>
Looking at patterns, I would go out on a limb and suggest that they would have gone higher if there hadn't been such a high percentage in the hands of insta-flippers. From watching over the years, whenever "hot issues" seem to be spread out, they go higher and spend a little longer in the high points. When they are bought as insta-flips and people want in and want out quickly, to pay the bills, make their % quickly as they watch prices start to drop because they put up 10 sales of their own competing at the same time, etc, then things drop quickly. They rebound, to a point though.
I think that is what we are seeing. Now, what is interesting on this one is the low mintage and the way people were shut out in mere hours. I think round 2 is coming up on these soon.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Box of 20
Yes!! We also need D, O and CC. Not to mention fractional ASE's with annually changing reverses. Plus, of course, a 26th Anniversary Set.
Write your congressman!
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i><< Do we really need a W and S minted ASE for future years. >> >>
Well, there is obviously a demand for the S coin based upon people buying the no mintmark S bullion coin. So, I would say, "Yes!"
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Box of 5 sealed $4150
link sold today!!
What was the high that these reached in Mid. Nov? >>
I don't know about ebay, but I heard that people with sealed sets at the Baltimore coin show were being approached with offers of $900/set. I was hoping the same thing would happen at Santa Clara, but it didn't. >>
Yes, as I recall, $4500 for the box of 5 was right around the high. It dropped to $4000 within a couple of days, bottoming right around $3000 before coming back to where it is now. I also think these have tremendous potential intermediate to long term, but it will be interesting to see whether lots of boxes hit the market if they get back to the old highs.
As far as I can tell, demand has been pretty steady throughout (it seemed to spike in the very beginning, explaining the quick run up to $4500, and then leveled off), while supply has really dried up in the past few weeks. It would be great if that happened indefinitely, but just from the comments on this board, it looks like another wave of supply will hit the market at $1,000/set. I wonder what will happen if the market pauses at $900? Will people who want to sell at $1,000 continue to wait, or will they become sellers out of fear of missing the $900 boat a second time? >>
Looking at patterns, I would go out on a limb and suggest that they would have gone higher if there hadn't been such a high percentage in the hands of insta-flippers. From watching over the years, whenever "hot issues" seem to be spread out, they go higher and spend a little longer in the high points. When they are bought as insta-flips and people want in and want out quickly, to pay the bills, make their % quickly as they watch prices start to drop because they put up 10 sales of their own competing at the same time, etc, then things drop quickly. They rebound, to a point though.
I think that is what we are seeing. Now, what is interesting on this one is the low mintage and the way people were shut out in mere hours. I think round 2 is coming up on these soon. >>
I agree with your analysis in its entirety. I was only speculating as to whether we might have another leg down at $900, IF any of the so-called insta-flippers who didn't get flushed out at $600 during the first round hit the market if/when we get back to the previous high. I am not predicting one way or the other. In any event, I didn't buy for a quick flip, so in the long run either I'm right that these are big winners over time, or I'm wrong, and I will have blown the chance to make 2-3x my money in a few weeks.
No matter what happens, I don't think we'll ever see a sealed box anywhere near $600 ever again, unless they all develop terrible spotting issues over time. Over 35,000 have already been graded, not including the ANACS/ICG crap that HSN hawks. Tens of thousands more have been opened and not sent in for grading. NGC and PCGS have no doubt graded already graded more than half of the total they are ever going to grade.
Just as an investment, which necessarily means never getting to enjoy the coins, the sealed boxes will only trend up from here. Their potential will be limited only by how high 70 sets ultimately go, which may not be the moon based on the percentage that are coming back 70 from both companies, but should still be significantly higher than the fire sale prices we have seen over the past month or so. If I am right, and raw, opened sets ultimately hit $1,000 or more, it's difficult to imagine 70 sets not going for north of $2,000. Sets grading 69 will end up being the best deals of all, since they look like just like 70s to the untrained eye, are very attractive even to the trained eye (most of the time!), and look like they may never sell for more than opened sets due to the tiny percentage of sub-69 grades coming back from both TPGs. The ability to buy coins graded 69 from a major TPG for the same price (or even a small discount to) ungraded coins (only talking about opened sets; I realize that the probability of receiving 70s from sealed sets is why they should carry a premium to 69s) seems like an awesome deal to me.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Box of 5 sealed $4150
link sold today!!
What was the high that these reached in Mid. Nov? >>
I don't know about ebay, but I heard that people with sealed sets at the Baltimore coin show were being approached with offers of $900/set. I was hoping the same thing would happen at Santa Clara, but it didn't. >>
The Balto show was perfectly timed for these. Sorry I was working.
<< <i>Box of (3) sold for 2640 open auction 1 bid on e-bay friday.........880 per set.....Hmmmmm not bad!! >>
WOW!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Box of 5 sealed $4150
link sold today!!
What was the high that these reached in Mid. Nov? >>
I don't know about ebay, but I heard that people with sealed sets at the Baltimore coin show were being approached with offers of $900/set. I was hoping the same thing would happen at Santa Clara, but it didn't. >>
Yes, as I recall, $4500 for the box of 5 was right around the high. It dropped to $4000 within a couple of days, bottoming right around $3000 before coming back to where it is now. I also think these have tremendous potential intermediate to long term, but it will be interesting to see whether lots of boxes hit the market if they get back to the old highs.
As far as I can tell, demand has been pretty steady throughout (it seemed to spike in the very beginning, explaining the quick run up to $4500, and then leveled off), while supply has really dried up in the past few weeks. It would be great if that happened indefinitely, but just from the comments on this board, it looks like another wave of supply will hit the market at $1,000/set. I wonder what will happen if the market pauses at $900? Will people who want to sell at $1,000 continue to wait, or will they become sellers out of fear of missing the $900 boat a second time? >>
Looking at patterns, I would go out on a limb and suggest that they would have gone higher if there hadn't been such a high percentage in the hands of insta-flippers. From watching over the years, whenever "hot issues" seem to be spread out, they go higher and spend a little longer in the high points. When they are bought as insta-flips and people want in and want out quickly, to pay the bills, make their % quickly as they watch prices start to drop because they put up 10 sales of their own competing at the same time, etc, then things drop quickly. They rebound, to a point though.
I think that is what we are seeing. Now, what is interesting on this one is the low mintage and the way people were shut out in mere hours. I think round 2 is coming up on these soon. >>
I agree with your analysis in its entirety. I was only speculating as to whether we might have another leg down at $900, IF any of the so-called insta-flippers who didn't get flushed out at $600 during the first round hit the market if/when we get back to the previous high. I am not predicting one way or the other. In any event, I didn't buy for a quick flip, so in the long run either I'm right that these are big winners over time, or I'm wrong, and I will have blown the chance to make 2-3x my money in a few weeks.
No matter what happens, I don't think we'll ever see a sealed box anywhere near $600 ever again, unless they all develop terrible spotting issues over time. Over 35,000 have already been graded, not including the ANACS/ICG crap that HSN hawks. Tens of thousands more have been opened and not sent in for grading. NGC and PCGS have no doubt graded already graded more than half of the total they are ever going to grade.
Just as an investment, which necessarily means never getting to enjoy the coins, the sealed boxes will only trend up from here. Their potential will be limited only by how high 70 sets ultimately go, which may not be the moon based on the percentage that are coming back 70 from both companies, but should still be significantly higher than the fire sale prices we have seen over the past month or so. If I am right, and raw, opened sets ultimately hit $1,000 or more, it's difficult to imagine 70 sets not going for north of $2,000. Sets grading 69 will end up being the best deals of all, since they look like just like 70s to the untrained eye, are very attractive even to the trained eye (most of the time!), and look like they may never sell for more than opened sets due to the tiny percentage of sub-69 grades coming back from both TPGs. The ability to buy coins graded 69 from a major TPG for the same price (or even a small discount to) ungraded coins (only talking about opened sets; I realize that the probability of receiving 70s from sealed sets is why they should carry a premium to 69s) seems like an awesome deal to me. >>
Nice analysis.
Only one thing to comment on...
I have some sealed proof and unc '08 W buff sets, '08 W plat proof sets and five ASE 25 anniv. sets. While I don't get to enjoy the coins per se, I do enjoy seeing those boxes in the SDB and knowing what they're worth. So, even without seeing the coins, the sealed sets bring me enjoyment.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Box of 5 sealed $4150
link sold today!!
What was the high that these reached in Mid. Nov? >>
I don't know about ebay, but I heard that people with sealed sets at the Baltimore coin show were being approached with offers of $900/set. I was hoping the same thing would happen at Santa Clara, but it didn't. >>
The Balto show was perfectly timed for these. Sorry I was working. >>
These sets briefly touched $5300 for a sealed box of 5 on Ebay (for the record) there were at least 5-6 boxes that sold for $5000+ before the floodgates opened.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Box of 5 sealed $4150
link sold today!!
What was the high that these reached in Mid. Nov? >>
I don't know about ebay, but I heard that people with sealed sets at the Baltimore coin show were being approached with offers of $900/set. I was hoping the same thing would happen at Santa Clara, but it didn't. >>
The Balto show was perfectly timed for these. Sorry I was working. >>
These sets briefly touched $5300 for a sealed box of 5 on Ebay (for the record) there were at least 5-6 boxes that sold for $5000+ before the floodgates opened. >>
Were they pre-sales or boxes in-hand, if you recall?
To me, there is a difference
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Box of 5 sealed $4150
link sold today!!
What was the high that these reached in Mid. Nov? >>
I don't know about ebay, but I heard that people with sealed sets at the Baltimore coin show were being approached with offers of $900/set. I was hoping the same thing would happen at Santa Clara, but it didn't. >>
The Balto show was perfectly timed for these. Sorry I was working. >>
These sets briefly touched $5300 for a sealed box of 5 on Ebay (for the record) there were at least 5-6 boxes that sold for $5000+ before the floodgates opened. >>
Were they pre-sales or boxes in-hand, if you recall?
To me, there is a difference >>
They were box in hand.
<< <i>
<< <i>
These sets briefly touched $5300 for a sealed box of 5 on Ebay (for the record) there were at least 5-6 boxes that sold for $5000+ before the floodgates opened. >>
Were they pre-sales or boxes in-hand, if you recall?
To me, there is a difference >>
I can't remember seeing any Bo5 above $5k whether it is pre-sales or not.
Wondercoin
There were 5 bids over $4000 by 4 separate bidders. Looks like there is some depth to the current demand.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>I am seeing open sets selling for $660 or $670 on ebay (after fees, shipping, etc. what is that ... just a touch over $600/set clear for sellers?) Not sure who is paying mid-$800's, but it appears there are plenty available still in the mid-$600's. Am I missing something?
Wondercoin >>
I think they were referring to sealed sets.
<< <i>I followed ebay very closely, I am almost positive no box ever got over $5,000 >>
They did. It only lasted a day or less, but they did.
5 sets sealed box
bullion = 281.99
W PRDCAM = 295.99
S = 680.00
W = 160.50
RP = 645.00
Interesting.
<< <i>That wasatch coin Mercanti flag set set sold for $2062.38 as an aggregate of the individual auctions.
bullion = 281.99
W PRDCAM = 295.99
S = 680.00
W = 160.50
RP = 645.00
Interesting. >>
I really like that mercanti label. Been debating on switching my mercanti coin for that but after the hours of trying to get the perfect set i dunno if i have it in me right now.