Is it even worth the bother?

Peacemonkey · December 11, 2011 2:19PM

Local coin shop, owner "hates slabs and doesnt bother with that junk". Has a nice coin that he believes is a 64 and is asking MORE than 64 PCGS price guide money. By 75$. Lets say I concur with his grade, but dont feel comfortable going anywhere near slabbed 64 money let alone inflated price guide money. Should I just make my final offer and take it or leave it and move on? Or should I try to engage him in conversation and try and figure out how he arrives at this figure and then try and reason with him why the coin should sell for what my offer ballparks around? Normally I would just negotiate and move on, however this coin shop is around the corner from me and I'd like to have it as a resource even though all his stuff is inflated for raw. The guy seems kind of a hard headed older type of guy so I get the feeling he will just kick me out eventually thinking I am lowballing him on everything I am interested in.

mrpotatoheadd · December 11, 2011 2:26PM

Everybody is free to value a coin as they wish. Explaining to a shop owner that he doesn't know how to do that properly is likely to be a less than productive exercise.

Bochiman · December 11, 2011 2:28PM

If you are interested in it, and he has priced it, then you either pay that price or say something like "I can understand that.....I've got $xxx in my pocket for it if you wanted right now, but if not, not a problem...it's a nice looking piece so thanks for showing it to me".

I don't think that is insulting and it lets him know you are a solid buyer, not tire-kicker, at a certain (should be reasonable) price, and that you also complimented his coin.

mrpotatoheadd · December 11, 2011 2:35PM

<< ...so I get the feeling he will just kick me out eventually thinking I am lowballing him on everything I am interested in. >>

You don't have to make an offer. Just ask "What's your best price?" and if it's too high, you can say "Thanks, but this one's not for me. Maybe next time."

Peacemonkey · December 11, 2011 2:42PM

<< Everybody is free to value a coin as they wish. Explaining to a shop owner that he doesn't know how to do that properly is likely to be a less than productive exercise. >>

So I probably shouldnt tell him that throwing them onto the counter from his safe 5 feet away and letting them clank on each other and the counter is a bad idea either huh?

coinsarefun · December 11, 2011 3:10PM

<< So I probably shouldnt tell him that throwing them onto the counter from his safe 5 feet away and letting them clank on each other and the counter is a bad idea either huh? >>

A very simaliar thing happened to me a few weeks back. The usual dealer I go to locally that gives me very nice prices on slabbed coins didn't have any but he did have a few raw ones. He graded and priced them as if they were slabbed and twice the price as normal. I have been buying from him for quite some time. I told him they were a little out of my budget, he replied that they are easily MS64's and 64's and nice toning.

I said well, maybe next time, he says ok and throughs them across the room about 4 feet onto the table and walks away

Never seen such a thing! There was 6 coins in all at $250 a pop

BryceM · December 11, 2011 3:30PM

If my "local dealer" couldn't be bothered with slabs and didn't treat items with numismatic value carefully, he wouldn't be my dealer. There are lots of nice coins and lots of nice dealers. Don't be rude, but don't waste your time on the others. Trying to "educate him" will likely be a negative experience for both of you.

Justlooking · December 11, 2011 3:40PM

If all the prices are inflated and he won't negotiate, best to find another dealer.

291fifth · December 11, 2011 3:48PM

Find another dealer.

stealer · December 11, 2011 3:54PM

I was checking out a raw PanPac 50c at my local dealer and I noticed something funny on the coin.
I asked him to examine it and he responded, oh, looks like a foreign object or something and then proceeds to brandish his hunting knife and take off whatever it was.

I didn't buy the coin.

Oh and those of you that say find another dealer, that dealer I just described is my only local dealer.

That's why fishing in the bay is best

GrumpyEd · December 11, 2011 3:56PM

I might ask him "what's bid/ask on these" to get it out there and see if he explains his price and then say I'd be a buyer for $xxx.
Most B&Ms that I know of don't use the PCGS price guides so I wouldn't bring it up.

Trying to explain anything or change his thinking is likely to get a negative response.

If you see the coin still there in few months you might ask the price again.

Peacemonkey · December 11, 2011 4:00PM

Just to get it out there and add perspective to the story, the coin in question was a 21 Peace $ that he graded @64 and priced @ 875$

stealer · December 11, 2011 4:02PM

<< Just to get it out there and add perspective to the story, the coin in question was a 21 Peace $ that he graded @64 and priced @ 875$ >>

Unless you're absolutely confident in your grading skills it's not worth the risk. Plus, you'd have to pay grading fees yourself.

Peacemonkey · December 11, 2011 4:25PM

<< 

<< Just to get it out there and add perspective to the story, the coin in question was a 21 Peace $ that he graded @64 and priced @ 875$ >>

Unless you're absolutely confident in your grading skills it's not worth the risk. Plus, you'd have to pay grading fees yourself. >>

Yeah I'm not even in the ballpark of 64 slabbed money.

stealer · December 11, 2011 4:27PM

<< 

<< 

<< Just to get it out there and add perspective to the story, the coin in question was a 21 Peace $ that he graded @64 and priced @ 875$ >>

Unless you're absolutely confident in your grading skills it's not worth the risk. Plus, you'd have to pay grading fees yourself. >>

Yeah I'm not even in the ballpark of 64 slabbed money. >>

Do you have any other dealers in your area? I don't so I never visit my local dealer

Elcontador · December 11, 2011 4:27PM

Imo, the only intelligent reason to buy a raw coin which by your standards is expensive is if you are 100% sure it is genuine and don't care how or whether it grades. Ie., an ugly Chain Cent, probably yes. Any Peace Dollar, no.

ricko · December 11, 2011 9:24PM

If you knowingly overpay for a coin (and it is not a once in a lifetime opportunity), you will end up dwelling on that fact and never really be happy with the coin. Cheers, RickO

PerryHall · December 11, 2011 9:25PM

<< I might ask him "what's bid/ask on these" to get it out there and see if he explains his price and then say I'd be a buyer for $xxx.
Most B&Ms that I know of don't use the PCGS price guides so I wouldn't bring it up.

Trying to explain anything or change his thinking is likely to get a negative response.

If you see the coin still there in few months you might ask the price again. >>

Great response. Just don't get buried in that coin.

BAJJERFAN · December 11, 2011 9:55PM

<< 

<< I might ask him "what's bid/ask on these" to get it out there and see if he explains his price and then say I'd be a buyer for $xxx.
Most B&Ms that I know of don't use the PCGS price guides so I wouldn't bring it up.

Trying to explain anything or change his thinking is likely to get a negative response.

If you see the coin still there in few months you might ask the price again. >>

Great response. Just don't get buried in that coin. >>

You mean like that dealer probably is?

nankraut · December 11, 2011 10:04PM

<< Just to get it out there and add perspective to the story, the coin in question was a 21 Peace $ that he graded @64 and priced @ 875$ >>

Pass...pass...pass...and pass.

PerryHall · December 11, 2011 10:04PM

<< 

<< 

<< I might ask him "what's bid/ask on these" to get it out there and see if he explains his price and then say I'd be a buyer for $xxx.
Most B&Ms that I know of don't use the PCGS price guides so I wouldn't bring it up.

Trying to explain anything or change his thinking is likely to get a negative response.

If you see the coin still there in few months you might ask the price again. >>

Great response. Just don't get buried in that coin. >>

You mean like that dealer probably is? >>

While it's quite possible that this dealer is buried in that coin, he is more likely just looking to make a big score.

dimples · December 11, 2011 10:38PM

Just by his statement about slabs RUN, Run very far. Reminds me how a lot of dealers were back in the seventies. Rip offs!!

coinhunters · December 11, 2011 11:10PM

In a friendly way let him know your are very much interested in purchasing that coin from him. Make your fair and reasonable offer, and if refused politely tell him it's more than you are willing to pay. You don't need to explain yourself, as neither does he at this point. Negotiation is past that point. Remember to ask about it everytime you visit the shop on return visits.

CarlWohlforth · December 11, 2011 11:20PM

In a similar situation I continued by asking about some other coins. Some generic circulated Morgan, proof sets and so on. He was consistently feeding me BS and my BS detector was blaring full blast. I just left never to come back.

crypto79 · December 12, 2011 12:03AM

Tell him your best offer and he will tell you his best price, after that neither of you is likely to convince the other person that they aren't as smart as they think they are.

BAJJERFAN · December 12, 2011 12:41AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< I might ask him "what's bid/ask on these" to get it out there and see if he explains his price and then say I'd be a buyer for $xxx.
Most B&Ms that I know of don't use the PCGS price guides so I wouldn't bring it up.

Trying to explain anything or change his thinking is likely to get a negative response.

If you see the coin still there in few months you might ask the price again. >>

Great response. Just don't get buried in that coin. >>

You mean like that dealer probably is? >>

While it's quite possible that this dealer is buried in that coin, he is more likely just looking to make a big score. >>

Of course we don't know if this dealer is a strong buyer, but my gut tells me that he likely isn't.

OldEastside · December 12, 2011 12:58AM

So I probably shouldnt tell him that throwing them onto the counter from his safe 5 feet away and letting them clank on each other and the counter is a bad idea either huh? >>

I was at Long Beach 4 or 5 years ago and this dealer was late
at setting up and I was browsing at all his gold and he reached
into a a little bag and pulled out a plastic like freezer bag and
opened it up and dumped the contents from about 2 feet up into
his Allstate case, I just cringed as about 50 Double Eagles clanked
and crashed into each other.

Steve

lcoopie · December 12, 2011 2:53AM

it sounds like you are looking for slabbed coins.

kiyote · December 12, 2011 3:02AM

If I were bored and rich I'm say buy it and give it to a friend to sell back to the same dealer a few months later just to see the dealer talk about slide marks and improper cleaning on the same coin he sold as 64.

Buzzybest · December 12, 2011 3:29AM

<< If all the prices are inflated and he won't negotiate, best to find another dealer. >>

Which is why I never buy anything from my authorized everything dealer! I have only sold to him,and don't even do that anymore since I discovered APMEX.

Tiny · December 12, 2011 3:42AM

Smile, say nothing and Move Along.

ambro51 · December 12, 2011 3:56AM

If you are in a coin club you should find the oldest, crankiest, smelliest most experienced man in there...send him to the dealer and let HIM negotiate.

cranky old men can be difficult to deal with, I know, I are one.

pennyannie · December 12, 2011 4:54AM

<< If you are in a coin club you should find the oldest, crankiest, smelliest most experienced man in there...send him to the dealer and let HIM negotiate.

cranky old men can be difficult to deal with, I know, I are one.

>>

I have used this approach a few times although i did not include the smelly catagory, I thought that was a given.

I would not give the coin in question a second thought, Pass!!

PerryHall · December 12, 2011 5:04AM

I've never liked playing games with coin dealers---I ask them for their best price and then I either play or pass.

Bankerbob56 · December 12, 2011 5:50AM

<< Everybody is free to value a coin as they wish. Explaining to a shop owner that he doesn't know how to do that properly is likely to be a less than productive exercise. >>

cmerlo1 · December 12, 2011 6:42AM

Although I don't believe all coins need to be slabbed, and that everyone has the right to an opinion, there are almost no words that turn me off to a dealer faster than "I don't like slabs." It makes me suspect them of being lowball ripoff buyers and purveyors of problem overgraded crap at full retail.

mrearlygold · December 12, 2011 6:59AM

<< 

<< Just to get it out there and add perspective to the story, the coin in question was a 21 Peace $ that he graded @64 and priced @ 875$ >>

Pass...pass...pass...and pass.

>>

Agree agree agree.

Is it even worth the bother?

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